I don't understand USA patriotism

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Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Oh I am, am I? I'm questioning your sanity at this point. You said that it was us and the Soviets while in reality it was the UK and the US that did this.

In reality Operation Boot from our side and Operation Ajax from yours did that.
I'm talking about the actual INVASION of Iran, which the Brits and Soviets did in 1941. Yeah dummy, I said it was the Brits and the Soviets because IT WAS. What a fucking moron you are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran

The Brits wanted Iran's oil, so you made up an excuse (falsely accused Iran's leaders of being Nazi sympathizers- hey, how History does repeat itself!) and then invaded and set up the Shah. Here it all is for you because I KNOW you're too stupid to read:
----
The British began to accuse Iran of supporting Nazism and being pro-German.[2] Although Reza Shah declared neutrality at an early stage of the Second World War, Iran assumed greater strategic importance to the British government, which feared that the Abadan Refinery (of the UK-owned Anglo-Iranian Oil Company) might fall into German hands; producing eight million tons of oil in 1940, the refinery was a crucial part of the Allied war effort.[2][5] Tensions with Iran had been strained since 1931 when the Shah cancelled the D'Arcy Concession, which gave the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company the exclusive right to sell Iranian oil, with Iran receiving only 10 percent (possibly 16 percent) of the revenue[6] or of the profits.[2][4]


Though Iran was neutral, the Allies considered Reza Shah to be friendly to the Axis powers, deposed him during the subsequent occupation and replaced him with his young son Mohammad Reza Pahlavi.[2]
-----



But hey, let's play pretend that operation Ajax never happened you fucking moron, just like you play pretend everything in your mothers basement you pathetic little kent of a man.
You mean the way you ignored (because you had no knowledge of) the actual invasion under false pretenses where your nation created the whole situation in the first place! You illustrated my point how your country pretty much is the cause of many of the conflicts in the region- including the whole Israel conflict. But by all means- keep ignoring your own county's ROTTEN history and keep blaming the US for everything.


I'll just leave this here, because actually now I'm curious how a total Brit moron spins all that as America's fault too. Have at it! Should prove for some truly entertaining revisionist drivel!

 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Mostly loling at you and your how America saved the world patriotism

Oh I forgot, it was Canada that saved us all. Never mind that at your peek you had just over 1 million which was 10% of your population, while the US had 12 million at a rate of about 11%. No no, the fact that Canada spent most of their military effort in Italy, the US fought Germany and Japan. Oh, how silly of me O Canada, land of the world's protector. Lol dummy.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Oh I forgot, it was Canada that saved us all. Never mind that at your peek you had just over 1 million which was 10% of your population, while the US had 12 million at a rate of about 11%. No no, the fact that Canada spent most of their military effort in Italy, the US fought Germany and Japan. Oh, how silly of me O Canada, land of the world's protector. Lol dummy.

lol
I got to say when you mentioned the US didn't get involved because you thought Britain was going to lose is pretty pathetic

Your family was still in Italy at that time wasn't it?
Which side where they on?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
lol
I got to say when you mentioned the US didn't get involved because you thought Britain was going to lose is pretty pathetic

Your family was still in Italy at that time wasn't it?
Which side where they on?

Well, if you were able to understand things, you would realize why the US was worried about Britain losing. It was not because the US was afraid to support a loser. The reason was that the US did not wan to send in resources only to have them captured by the Germans. If you knew anything about WWII, you would know that the German strategy in Western Europe was to seize resources of their enemies and use them. Germany did not have the industry to supply its Western expansion without this strategy. Had the US sent in supplies to defend a country that would lose, it would lead the US less able to defend itself later on.

Further, the US was far more damaged from WWI compared to Canada. It was still owed billions of dollars and its population was recovering from the losses.

As far as I have been told, my family was out of Italy on both the German and Italian side. Had they been in either country, I suspect they would have been supportive of their leaders as most were. That would be quite sad if true, as we know for a fact that those leaders were quite horrible. But, as far as I know my family was already in the US Post WWI and Pre-WWII. Strange personal question though.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Further, the US was far more damaged from WWI compared to Canada. It was still owed billions of dollars and its population was recovering from the losses.

Canada gifted most of it's billions in dollars loans, and only took a billion in repayments
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
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Canada gifted most of it's billions in dollars loans, and only took a billion in repayments

Let me help you out here dummy. Its funny that you would mention Canada debt during WWII.

https://www.quora.com/After-World-War-II-What-nations-owed-what-financially-to-the-United-States

The total value of Lend-Lease from the US to all countries was about $51 billion in 1940s money. In terms of today's money, it's close to $1 trillion (assuming a 4.5% annual inflation rate over 70 years).

So the few billion that Canada gave out is nothing compared to the $51 billion the US gave out in supplies. Of that value, the US received about $10 billion in payment. So, its very cute that your country gave a few billion in loans. The US also gave out loans too.

It is truly amazing how the world has forgotten historical facts.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,569
12,680
146
Can someone explain it to this Canadian?

At this point, I don't understand American patriotism. You guys are the most powerful country in the world ,that uses it mostly to fund wars for profit, refuse to provide your citizens with health care and well funded education, imprison your population for profit, and elected an administration that claims climate change is a lie.

America is by far, BY FAR, the biggest threat to the survival of the species as has ever been formed on the planet. Now Trump wants to have NFL players fired for not bending a knee.
So, I hope you understand American Patriotism now. Basically, we're better than everyone, even if we're just not as bad as everyone else.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
Guys, do you really think it's productive to engage in a pissing contest over past history, trying to prove which western imperialist nations were the most destructive? The world is complex and rarely is a single actor responsible for every bad development in a given region. This kind of discussion isn't constructive. We're better off arguing over what we should or shouldn't do in the future.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Let me help you out here dummy. Its funny that you would mention Canada debt during WWII.

https://www.quora.com/After-World-War-II-What-nations-owed-what-financially-to-the-United-States



So the few billion that Canada gave out is nothing compared to the $51 billion the US gave out in supplies. Of that value, the US received about $10 billion in payment. So, its very cute that your country gave a few billion in loans. The US also gave out loans too.

It is truly amazing how the world has forgotten historical facts.

You should probably figure in the fact the US pop was 13 times the size of the Canadian pop too no?

Anyways ya, this dummy has a blueprint to finish off and you probably got secretary work to finish up
Yak ya latez
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Guys, do you really think it's productive to engage in a pissing contest over past history, trying to prove which western imperialist nations were the most destructive? The world is complex and rarely is a single actor responsible for every bad development in a given region. This kind of discussion isn't constructive. We're better off arguing over what we should or shouldn't do in the future.

Screw you. Take that logic out of P&N.

No, but it is annoying how people try and rewrite history to justify the Evils of country X. Far too often people bash the US with made up historical examples as to why we are really the worst country ever. The idea posited by the OP that the US is the most damaging country ever is not something to be ignored so easily. Right now the US is the police of the world because no other large countries of the West was able to. Right now, Russia and China are stepping up which will be bad for the west.

The US needs to be fixed for sure, but don't tear us down and create a vacuum that allows Russia and China to gain even more power. The US has problems, but those two would be far worse.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
You should probably figure in the fact the US pop was 13 times the size of the Canadian pop too no?

Anyways ya, this dummy has a blueprint to finish off and you probably got secretary work to finish up
Yak ya latez

Even if you took all of Canada's contributions and multiplied it by 13, you are still very far off from what the US did. No matter how you try and cut it, Canada does not hold an candle to what the US did during both WWI and WWII.

So yes, the US was by far the biggest reason Hitler was stopped. Europe was by far the biggest reason for Hitler coming to power outside of German support.

Also, I'm not a secretary. Not sure at that comment. But hey, you are known for trying to deflect.
 

stockwiz

Senior member
Sep 8, 2013
403
15
81
Can someone explain it to this Canadian?

At this point, I don't understand American patriotism. You guys are the most powerful country in the world ,that uses it mostly to fund wars for profit, refuse to provide your citizens with health care and well funded education, imprison your population for profit, and elected an administration that claims climate change is a lie.

America is by far, BY FAR, the biggest threat to the survival of the species as has ever been formed on the planet. Now Trump wants to have NFL players fired for not bending a knee.
Human beings are largely computer programs that are a combination of their DNA and their upbringing, which includes what they are told by their parents, media, school system, and popular entertainment. Americans have patriotism because of what they are taught by their parents and the culture. It's no different than any other nation or culture on the planet. You are your enviornment.

Also, America is far from the biggest threat to the survival of the species. You need to stop swallowing the media kool aid. Though I disagree with Trump on some things, he is not the barbarian he's made out to be. He's a bit of a narcissist, but so was Hillary. Looking at the way she's trying to blame everyone but herself for losing the election, I'm glad she didn't become president. Also, I don't understand why so many people condone nations like North Korea while bashing Trump for bothering to do something about it. Seems like big political people tend to be sheep that follow their herd and not many of them are able to take an independent mindset. They just swallow whatever kool aid their party tells them to believe.

The fact that lefties in the US would support Islam while bashing Christianity is evidence of this brainwashing... how they go out of their way to support a religion that does not have the rights of gays and women in mind... life is not black and white, of course, and many muslims are fine people. Likewise, there's more to a political position than simply using simple logic, or doing what "feels" good. Life is all about shades of grey, which is why I like to remain independent, moderate, with perhaps a slight social libertarian lean. Political parties in the US are for the sheep who need someone to tell them what to think, as there are only 2 of them, and both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Mostly it seems like a big chessboard where the same person controls both sides of the board, and they give the illusion of choice... they use media as a tool of social conditioning but the media here in the US is getting so extreme lefty that people are simply tuning out. Nobody likes being preached too. The religious right failed at it in the 1980's, and the leftie loonies are failing at it now... so high they ride on their high horses of supposed moral superiority...

The US has done a lot of good in advancing social causes around the world the last 100 years. If you can't see this, then you're blind... not that I particularly care either way. I'm not a massive patriot by any means. I'd gladly take Norway, Switzerland, etc. as places to live given the opportunity, but let's face facts.. they haven't made the dent on the world stage that the US has. The US has been a global powerhouse that has fueled much of the things we take for granted today, including the technological revolution, cultural advances stemming from Hollywood, popular media, and the rise of the internet which provides access to information that is unprecedented compared to the past where information tended to be controlled by whoever was in power, the center of investment and R&D by major corporations, including big biotech companies that continue to pave the way to cures for many diseases, companies like Intel and AMD which push the microprocessor revolution to new levels, and much more.
 
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Snarf Snarf

Senior member
Feb 19, 2015
399
327
136
Guys, do you really think it's productive to engage in a pissing contest over past history, trying to prove which western imperialist nations were the most destructive? The world is complex and rarely is a single actor responsible for every bad development in a given region. This kind of discussion isn't constructive. We're better off arguing over what we should or shouldn't do in the future.

Was about to say this myself, thank you for saving me the trouble.

@OP You don't understand American Patriotism because American's don't understand it either.

We have an obsession with symbols like songs, pieces of cloth, and standing or saluting. The ideals of patriotism often get singled out to military service here, "disrespecting" the flag is disrespecting the lives of those who paid the ultimate price for our nation. What often goes under appreciated is outside of our major world and nation changing conflicts there were a lot of lives lost that weren't granted the rights and freedoms the flag was supposed to stand for.

This NFL kneeling protest movement started with the notion that Kaepernik said he wouldn't stand for the national anthem until he felt like the ideals of a free and just America applied to all citizens. As has been noted from the outside often on this forum, USA has a problem with police brutality. Lots of lives are taken unjustly and the killers walk away with nothing more than a paid vacation. Regardless of what people believe about flags and songs, the man has a pretty damn good point

The implication that because NFL players are millionaires and "shouldn't complain" because this country affords them the luxury of playing a sport professionally is an asinine argument. Most of the NFL is African American, and I'm willing to bet a very high percentage of them have been harassed at some point in time by LEO's racially profiling them. It's a massive problem in the country today, and all they want is for the public to acknowledge it, so the government can address the problem.

There is nothing more patriotic in my opinion than exercising your constitutionally ensured rights to promote positive social change in your country. This idea that you shouldn't criticize the country when you enjoy it's benefits is idiotic at best and dangerous at worst. There are a lot of things wrong with this country, and a lot of them are still racially sensitive issues regardless of what people want to be true. It's our civic duty to ensure that this country is better place than it was in the past, and we should pass the belief that there is nothing more patriotic than wanting to improve our country we love to our children.

Things that aren't patriotic: Wearing American Flag apparel while blowing things up and shotgunning beer.
Things that are: Trying to improve our great country using your constitutionally granted freedoms
 
Jul 9, 2009
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I agree 100% that the United States needs to stop it's own Imperialism. Time we sent the Virgin Islands, Guam,the Marianas and Puerto Rico out on their own to be free and not in the shackles of the United States.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
He knows some history and you don't.

Nothing in that article had to do with showing how Trump was anything. It just said he was x and then talked about the NFL thing. Why say Trump is a racist, and then link to an article about the NFL thing?
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Even if you took all of Canada's contributions and multiplied it by 13, you are still very far off from what the US did. No matter how you try and cut it, Canada does not hold an candle to what the US did during both WWI and WWII.

That's just not logical brad, can you show me your data?
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
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Nothing in that article had to do with showing how Trump was anything. It just said he was x and then talked about the NFL thing. Why say Trump is a racist, and then link to an article about the NFL thing?

Having issues following the thread?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
That's just not logical brad, can you show me your data?

Sure, but you could have done this too.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/second-world-war-wwii/

More than half the industrial war material produced went to Britain. Britain could not possibly pay for all of it; so Canada, in the interest of helping to win the war, and keeping her factories working, financed a high proportion. At the beginning of 1942 a billion-dollar gift was devoted to this purpose. The next year a program of mutual aid to serve Allied nations generally, but still in practice mainly directed to Britain, was introduced. During the war Canadian financial assistance to Britain amounted to $3,043,000,000.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/history/united-states-and-canada/us-history/lend-lease

It took nearly two years for America's industrial potential to reach its peak, but lend-lease was a rousing success. Initially it boosted morale amongst the major U.S. allies, but it quickly began to provide the supplies they needed to fight the war. Wartime estimates, including the value of services and technological transfers, came to between $43 and $50 billion (1945 dollars) of aid to America's wartime allies. Some $8 billion of "reverse" lend-lease—mainly technology transfers and raw materials from the British and French empires—came back to the United States.

So, if you have 3 billion in aid, and multiply that by 13, you get 39 billion in aid. The US in the Lend-Lease act gave 43-50 billion and in return collected about 8 billion. That is a net loss for the US of 35 to 42 billion dollars in 1945 dollars.

This is aid expense which is what we are talking about.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Having issues following the thread?

Having issues following why the person posted the link. If the point is to validate that Trump is racist, then what is the point of an article that simply says he is racist? I would think you would want to point to examples of being racist and not examples of Trump being stupid.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
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Having issues following why the person posted the link. If the point is to validate that Trump is racist, then what is the point of an article that simply says he is racist? I would think you would want to point to examples of being racist and not examples of Trump being stupid.

Again, having issues following the thread? There are these little arrow in the replies. Click on them to follow the trail and all will be revealed.
 
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