I drive extremely low miles. Oil changes?

[bradly1101]

For various reasons I need a car, but not for much. In the eleven months I've had it, it only has 371 miles on the odo. I've Googled the question "low miles+oil change+how often," and came up with lots of different answers. I thought I'd get your guys' take. One site said it has to be changed every 6 mos. due to contaminant buildup. How do contaminants get in the oil?

It was also said that if you drive less than 10 minutes at a time you don't "boil off the water in the oil." Is that true? If so, where does that steam go if not back into the oil? Once it reaches peak temp., isn't that as hot as it gets? How does water get in the oil?

It's a 2017 Sienna btw, bought new.

Thanks!

 

[PeterScott]

I change the oil once/year in my Miata.

There should be no problem with once/year intervals.

 

[corkyg]

I'm in a similar situation - about 3000 miles for the year. The standard oil is synthetic. Dealer recommends a once a year change. For normal use, the recommended change is 8K miles. I boil that down to once a year or 8K miles whichever comes sooner.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

It always amazes me that the computer geeks (of which I am one) will staunchly support the analytical processes associated with all things PC but will give no thought to the arbitrary advice of the local stealership when it comes to oil changes. There are oil analysis services available. For someone who uses their car so infrequently you may be able to go years without changing the oil.

 

[lxskllr]

It always amazes me that the computer geeks (of which I am one) will staunchly support the analytical processes associated with all things PC but will give no thought to the arbitrary advice of the local stealership when it comes to oil changes. There are oil analysis services available. For someone who uses their car so infrequently you may be able to go years without changing the oil.

While I generally agree this is good advice, I could have just changed my oil, and been done with it for little cost. If it were me, I'd probably change the oil one a year for the hell of it. Testing would certainly be more sure, and I bet it would be interesting for a lot of people here. Of course, at 400 miles per year, you barely need oil at all. It would last the rest of his life with even marginal oil in the crankcase.

 

[boomerang]

Your owners manual will tell you how frequently to change the oil based on the type of driving you do.

How do contaminants get in the oil?

The combustion process is the primary culprit. Acids in one form or another are created during the combustion process.

It was also said that if you drive less than 10 minutes at a time you don't "boil off the water in the oil." Is that true?

Yes, it is.

How does water get in the oil?

Primarily through condensation. The same air that you breath is inside your engine. When conditions are right, water in the air will condense inside the engine and it tends to dilute the oil over time. If the car is driven long enough for the engine to reach peak temperature for a long enough period of time, the moisture turns into water vapor. The crankcase of the engine continually has air being circulated through it when the engine is running. Air enters and it, along with the water vapor, is ingested into the cylinders where it eventually exits along with exhaust gases.

 

[TennesseeTony]

I've only read a few owner's manuals, but ALL of them said to change the oil once a year if you don't meet the mileage requirement first.

As for your other questions, engines breath, they are not sealed up and air-tight. Just the night/day cycle is enough to make your engine breath in some fresh damp air, and cause internal condensation.

Contaminants I'm not so sure about, but the explosive mixture of gas and air does seep past the piston rings and into the oil, and gas breaks down the oil. My time aboard steam turbine powered ships was impressive, the oil was the original oil that came from the shipyard, in the late 1940's, but they had onboard centrifugal purifiers and an oil lab to occasionally add some additives for whatever reason (ph?).

I would suggest you find some reason to drive your vehicle just a tiny bit more frequently.

 

[bradly1101]

I change the oil once/year in my Miata.

There should be no problem with once/year intervals.

Do you mind if I ask how old it was? (I assume no related repairs)

Is pushing it to two years out of the question (to 800 mi.)? with 0W-20 Mobil one (which says 10,000?) This van was so cheap (and content-rich), and I want to be super frugal and less wasteful. The manual says 10,000 mi./or every 12 mos. I check fluids, but haven't rotated the new-looking tires.

Your owners manual will tell you how frequently to change the oil based on the type of driving you do.
The combustion process is the primary culprit. Acids in one form or another are created during the combustion process.
Yes, it is.
Primarily through condensation. The same air that you breath is inside your engine. When conditions are right, water in the air will condense inside the engine and it tends to dilute the oil over time. If the car is driven long enough for the engine to reach peak temperature for a long enough period of time, the moisture turns into water vapor. The crankcase of the engine continually has air being circulated through it when the engine is running. Air enters and it, along with the water vapor, is ingested into the cylinders where it eventually exits along with exhaust gases.

Thanks! That all makes perfect sense. I've always worked on my cars, but was uninitiated to the many underlying processes. For example my owners manual says to "bed down" the parking brake, which after understanding what it was, seems impossible to perform by the consumer with a foot operated, ratcheted one.

edit: corrected OC interval

 

[PeterScott]

Do you mind if I ask how old it was? (I assume no related repairs)

Is pushing it to two years out of the question (to 800 mi.)? with 0W-30 Mobil one (which says 10,000?) This van was so cheap (and content-rich), and I want to be super frugal and less wasteful. The manual says mi./or every 3 mos. That would be silly wasteful since it had 120 miles at that time. I check fluids, but haven't rotated the new-looking tires.

2007 with 33000 miles. No issues of any kind so far.

As others have mentioned oil analysis would likely indicate you could go 2 years. I just feel totally comfortable with 1 year intervals, without the need to double check with an oil analysis. Unless there is something else wrong with your car, nothing should contaminate the oil within a year of low mileage.

But also consider resale, longer than a 1 year interval might make some potential buyers nervous. You might also technically void some warranty aspects.

My Mom got hassled by her dealership to get oil changes more often even though she only drives about 2000 miles per year and already does two oil changes/year. I told her to just do the absolute minimum while under warranty and then go once/year once it is over.

 

[crashtech]

Once a year on synthetic is pretty standard advice for vehicles driving limited miles. Also, taking it out for a long-ish drive once a month will help drive moisture (which fuels the formation of other, more harmful contaminants) out of the engine.

I must say, this is the first time I have heard of a brand new vehicle other than a collectible or sports car being used on such a limited basis. At any rate, a once a year oil change should not really be considered cost-prohibitive, and may help preserve the warranty.

 

[bbhaag]

Great question and one I was wondering about myself. I put a few more miles then you on my Explorer right around 3500 and only change the oil twice a year. Once in the spring and once in the fall. Sounds like this is more than adequate so I will keep doing it this way.

 

[WilliamM2]

I drive about 4000 miles a year, use semi-synthetic, and I change it every 12 or 13 months. Never had any issues in several cars or bikes.

If you really want to be frugal, why did you buy a new car? The last new car I bought was 5 years old before I had 20K on it, and the value had dropped by more than half, by 12 years old with 50K on it, it was worth almost nothing. The next car I bought I decided a 2-3 year old car with 20-30K already on it was a better option. Half the price, and at 12 years old will still have less than 70K on it.

Your van will be worth nothing by the time you get 10K on it.

 

[bradly1101]

But also consider resale, longer than a 1 year interval might make some potential buyers nervous. You might also technically void some warranty aspects.

I'm not concerned about resale; this car should last me with my driving style until I can no longer drive. I am concerned about the warranty though. Toyota says every 10,000 mi. or every year. They don't say that the warranty will be void if I go beyond 1 yr.

My Mom got hassled by her dealership to get oil changes more often even though she only drives about 2000 miles per year and already does two oil changes/year. I told her to just do the absolute minimum while under warranty and then go once/year once it is over.

I get the same (email) hassles.

"Toyota will not deny a warranty claim solely
because you do not have records to show
that you maintained your vehicle. However,
any failure or noncompliance caused by
lack of maintenance is not covered by this
warranty."

https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms-s/T-MMS-17Sienna/pdf/T-MMS-17Sienna.pdf

If I waited until 18 mos./600 miles I doubt I'd have any oil-related failures. But as said, oil changes are easy to do or obtain, and are cheap. So I'll probably do 18 mos.

 

[crashtech]

I'd like to clarify a couple of things that may not have been fully explained already. The presence of water in the crankcase is mainly because combustion produces it, in fact, this is the cleanest, most desirable outcome. This is why you see tailpipes emitting a plume of "steam" on cold days, because the water vapor in the exhaust is condensing into a cloud. Some of this water, other combustion byproducts, and even a bit of unburned fuel, enter the crankcase in the form of "blow-by" because pistons don't seal perfectly, but engines have a system called PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) that feeds a controlled amount of this blow-by back into the intake tract of the engine. In this way, remaining hydrocarbons can be burned, and the rest can be blown out of the engine with the other exhaust. This is the reason why the occasional longer drive is important, this allows the oil to come up to operating temperature long enough to completely boil off any water accumulation in the crankcase, staving off the formation of harmful substances in the oil.

 

[bradly1101]

If you really want to be frugal, why did you buy a new car? .

I was looking for something to last me until I can't drive, I won't care about resale much, although the lower the miles... My Previa was going strong at 24 years old with some issues mostly due to its features like leaky sunroofs. The Sienna is the bottom of the the line "L" model, but incredibly well equipped at $29K with aluminum wheels, backup camera, touch screen, steering wheel controls, bluetooth/usb, tri-zone auto climate with rear control, trip computer/mileage statistics, programmable lighting/convenience features, dash security light (but no alarm, shhh), cruise, etc. People pay upwards of $50K for higher models, but only get power doors (which have proven unreliable)/seats, leather (which I don't like), and sunroofs, as well as some small niceties like seat heaters (21K for that?), which I don't need in so. Calif. So it's relatively frugal. Gas savings with such low miles is huge.

My last car was used, and although reliable, it turned out to be a flood recovery car, and had been in a major accident, neither of which showed up on the CarFax report, but were discovered down the road when I pulled out the interior panels to install sound deadening and also discovered it had significant rust all around the windshield, as well as sinking Bondo. A mechanic gave it a clean bill of health when I bought it. I didn't want to inherit any more hidden problems.

 

[bradly1101]

I'd like to clarify a couple of things that may not have been fully explained already. The presence of water in the crankcase is mainly because combustion produces it, in fact, this is the cleanest, most desirable outcome. This is why you see tailpipes emitting a plume of "steam" on cold days, because the water vapor in the exhaust is condensing into a cloud. Some of this water, other combustion byproducts, and even a bit of unburned fuel, enter the crankcase in the form of "blow-by" because pistons don't seal perfectly, but engines have a system called PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) that feeds a controlled amount of this blow-by back into the intake tract of the engine. In this way, remaining hydrocarbons can be burned, and the rest can be blown out of the engine with the other exhaust. This is the reason why the occasional longer drive is important, this allows the oil to come up to operating temperature long enough to completely boil off any water accumulation in the crankcase, staving off the formation of harmful substances in the oil.

Thanks. I do visit family about 15 miles away regularly. Hopefully that's enough.

 

[LTC8K6]

The manual says 10,000 mi./or every 12 mos.

I'll just quote you, quoting your owner's manual, which you need to follow to maintain your warranty.
Since 12 months will always come up first for you, the correct interval is 12 months.
Short trips are the hardest thing on an engine, and it sounds like that's all you do.

 

[Meghan54]

I'm not concerned about resale; this car should last me with my driving style until I can no longer drive. I am concerned about the warranty though. Toyota says every 10,000 mi. or every year. They don't say that the warranty will be void if I go beyond 1 yr.

You didn't read the maintenance manual, did you? The time/mileage limits aren't an either/or situation, they're a which-hits-first situation.

That's represented by this:


Miles or Months?

Toyota recommends obtaining scheduled
maintenance for your vehicle every
5,000 miles or six months, whichever
comes first.

For example:

• If you drive 5,000 miles in less than six
months, you should obtain maintenance
at 5,000 miles- don’t wait until six months.

• If at six months you have driven less
than 5,000 miles, you should obtain
maintenance at six months- don’t wait
until 5,000 miles.


This is from page 36 of your maintenance manual:
https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms-s/T-MMS-17Sienna/pdf/T-MMS-17Sienna.pdf

 

[OlyAR15]

Why not trade in your car for an EV? Your is the perfect use case for one.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I'm in the same boat as there are times where I barely drive 1k per year on my car. When I do drive it the engine always gets up to normal operating temperature so its not doing short trips where it will never reach that point. I change my oil every 3k so this last time I left it in there 3 years using the factory Ford synthblend oil and filter.

Why not trade in your car for an EV? Your is the perfect use case for one.

I really wish that I could afford one or else I would as the thought of not having to perform that level of maintenance really appeals to me.

 

[bruceb]

My Cadillac 2016 ATS All Wheel Drive with the 3.6L non turbo motor, also does not get a lot of use. It only has about 720 Miles on it and the oil life monitor thinks it needs an oil change. Oil is full and quite clean. I will do the first change at the 1,000 mile mark with Mobil 1 Full Synthetic and then do it once a year afterward.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Once a year is fine. I switched to that interval once my extended factory warranty expired.
If in doubt, a UOA is fairly cheap : https://www.blackstone-labs.com

 

[crashtech]

Jeez, guys, if you can't take time to drive your cars, at least have your servants take them out for a spin once in while.

 

[bruceb]

I still have my 1999 Grand Prix with 247K on it, so it gets more use. But a lot is mostly around town driving.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Jeez, guys, if you can't take time to drive your cars, at least have your servants take them out for a spin once in while.

The 06 LS V8 has been my DD for 10+ years now. It's just that I live only ~2.5 miles from work (friggin' love the commute!)