I drive extremely low miles. Oil changes?

[bradly1101]

Jeez, guys, if you can't take time to drive your cars, at least have your servants take them out for a spin once in while.

LOL. Even given our impact on the planet, you never hear people say to drive or travel less. I'm happy to drive only (mostly) when I have to, and I love driving.

 

[bradly1101]

You didn't read the maintenance manual, did you? The time/mileage limits aren't an either/or situation, they're a which-hits-first situation.

That's represented by this:


Miles or Months?

Toyota recommends obtaining scheduled
maintenance for your vehicle every
5,000 miles or six months, whichever
comes first.

For example:

• If you drive 5,000 miles in less than six
months, you should obtain maintenance
at 5,000 miles- don’t wait until six months.

• If at six months you have driven less
than 5,000 miles, you should obtain
maintenance at six months- don’t wait
until 5,000 miles.


This is from page 36 of your maintenance manual:
https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms-s/T-MMS-17Sienna/pdf/T-MMS-17Sienna.pdf

Yes I'm aware of what they mean by "or," and have read that whole manual, including the part that says that they will only deny coverage if you damage something that you fail to maintain (not for not being able to show records that match their recommended maintenance intervals). I am 100% sure after reading all this that changing the oil at 18 mos./600 miles (or even 2 yrs./800 miles) will not cause oil-related failures.

 

[bradly1101]

Why not trade in your car for an EV? Your is the perfect use case for one.

I wish I could, but certain needs dictate driving a minivan. Also charging would be an issue in my underground, shared garage. My "green" nature is satisfied by the low miles, but the lack of maintenance required on an electric motor is appealing. Living in the L.A. area means that hydrogen is also an option, but again no minivans.

 

[Insomniator]

Who buys a brand new minivan to drive 500 miles a year?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Who buys a brand new minivan to drive 500 miles a year?

A retired person in a wheelchair who lives <1 mile from church and <1 mile from the grocery store, but has to cross a highway to get to either of them?

 

[mindless1]

While it's not what I'd advocate, at the rate you drive you could never change the oil and it wouldn't make a difference. Except warranty.

 

[crashtech]

While it's not what I'd advocate, at the rate you drive you could never change the oil and it wouldn't make a difference. Except warranty.

It might to the subsequent owner.

 

[C1]

That kind of use is tough on an auto. If you read the book "Mr Good Wrench (How to make your car last forever)", then you will learn that one cold start puts as much wear on an auto as driving 500 non-stop highway miles !.

One of the big issues of cold start is use of the choke (or enriched fuel mixture needed) till the engine temperature reaches normal intended operational. The enriched mixture washes oil from cylinder walls. Then too there is residual moisture that could accumulate in the oil & fuel system with very short trips/low use notwithstanding possible chronic under charged battery which typically results in plate sulfate accumulation. With time, there are other issues which can accumulate from non-use such as dried out shaft seals in all places from crank & transmission to AC compressor.

If you just parked a car in a garage unused for ten years, you'd find that it would probably need substantial refurbishing of soft parts to get it running well again (includes tires even, dead batteries in TPMS sensors, struts gone bad, dried out & cracking rubber & plastics such as hoses including seat covers, etc.).

Dont be surprised to find rodents living somewhere inside the vehicle.

If youre gonna keep a vehicle unused, then store it in a sealed container filled with nitrogen gas & keep the temperature constant.

 

[mindless1]

That kind of use is tough on an auto. If you read the book "Mr Good Wrench (How to make your car last forever)", then you will learn that one cold start puts as much wear on an auto as driving 500 non-stop highway miles !.

Then they're idiots. If that were true then most of my vehicles have been miracles for how many faux-500-miles they should have worn (out) by now. I'll grant that it might be true for select components IN an engine, but unless those are poorly designed they will probably last the life of the engine anyway except for certain timing chains.

One of the big issues of cold start is use of the choke (or enriched fuel mixture needed) till the engine temperature reaches normal intended operational. The enriched mixture washes oil from cylinder walls.

It's not THAT much richer. It would flood instead of run. The larger issue is lower flow rate from thicker oil and that it had drained down out of the engine on the cold start.

Then too there is residual moisture that could accumulate in the oil & fuel system with very short trips/low use notwithstanding possible chronic under charged battery which typically results in plate sulfate accumulation. With time, there are other issues which can accumulate from non-use such as dried out shaft seals in all places from crank & transmission to AC compressor.

While part of that is true, there is no fuel system residual moisture difference. There is nothing about the fuel system that drives off moisture more, the longer it runs. Further for decades EPA required it be sealed, and on any remotely modern (20+ years old) vehicle if there is a leak in that subsystem you'll get a check engine light).

If you just parked a car in a garage unused for ten years, you'd find that it would probably need substantial refurbishing of soft parts to get it running well again (includes tires even, dead batteries in TPMS sensors, struts gone bad, dried out & cracking rubber & plastics such as hoses including seat covers, etc.).

Dont be surprised to find rodents living somewhere inside the vehicle.

If youre gonna keep a vehicle unused, then store it in a sealed container filled with nitrogen gas & keep the temperature constant.

That doesn't address any of the time/age concerns mentioned or omitted, only oxidation.

 

[bradly1101]

I wonder about the amount of water that accumulates in the oil and needs to be boiled off through the exhaust. I see the steam that comes out of exhaust pipes on cold days, but isn't a lot of that from the condensation in the hot exhaust system itself?

 

[bradly1101]

If you just parked a car in a garage unused for ten years, you'd find that it would probably need substantial refurbishing of soft parts to get it running well again (includes tires even, dead batteries in TPMS sensors, struts gone bad, dried out & cracking rubber & plastics such as hoses including seat covers, etc.).

Dont be surprised to find rodents living somewhere inside the vehicle.

If youre gonna keep a vehicle unused, then store it in a sealed container filled with nitrogen gas & keep the temperature constant.

Yes that's the only big bummer; my tires will outlast those TPMS sensor batteries (its garaged).

I drove my last car in similar fashion with no ill-effects. There's a big difference between storing a car and driving it once a week. My batteries have always lasted just fine despite the fact that most of those weekly drives are less than three miles long.

 

[mindless1]

I wonder about the amount of water that accumulates in the oil and needs to be boiled off through the exhaust. I see the steam that comes out of exhaust pipes on cold days, but isn't a lot of that from the condensation in the hot exhaust system itself?

Yes it is, condensation as it enters the colder environment, but it's the same water vapor from the combustion process whether it's cold out or not, the same water vapor as blow by into the crankcase.

However these are two separate subsystems. Driving to get the oil up to temp boils off the water vapor to be sucked back through the (typically PCV valve) engine.

 

[bradly1101]

Who buys a brand new minivan to drive 500 miles a year?

Already explained (above):

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/i-drive-extremely-low-miles-oil-changes.2525573/#post-39154389

 

[eng2d2]

That kind of use is tough on an auto. If you read the book "Mr Good Wrench (How to make your car last forever)", then you will learn that one cold start puts as much wear on an auto as driving 500 non-stop highway miles !.

One of the big issues of cold start is use of the choke (or enriched fuel mixture needed) till the engine temperature reaches normal intended operational. The enriched mixture washes oil from cylinder walls. Then too there is residual moisture that could accumulate in the oil & fuel system with very short trips/low use notwithstanding possible chronic under charged battery which typically results in plate sulfate accumulation. With time, there are other issues which can accumulate from non-use such as dried out shaft seals in all places from crank & transmission to AC compressor.

If you just parked a car in a garage unused for ten years, you'd find that it would probably need substantial refurbishing of soft parts to get it running well again (includes tires even, dead batteries in TPMS sensors, struts gone bad, dried out & cracking rubber & plastics such as hoses including seat covers, etc.).

Dont be surprised to find rodents living somewhere inside the vehicle.

If youre gonna keep a vehicle unused, then store it in a sealed container filled with nitrogen gas & keep the temperature constant.

Depaends on the garage

 

[WilliamM2]

Yes that's the only big bummer; my tires will outlast those TPMS sensor batteries (its garaged).

The tires will eventually dry rot, whether you use them or not. I usually have to replace mine every 5 years or so, even though the tread is still fine, and the car is kept in a garage.

And my TPMS sensors are still fine at 8 years old, just had new tires installed last spring. If they fail before the next set of tires, I'll just put something over the light. I never had TPMS before, and I really don't think I need it now. I still check my own pressures, I'm not going to trust a dash light.

 

[bradly1101]

The tires will eventually dry rot, whether you use them or not. I usually have to replace mine every 5 years or so, even though the tread is still fine, and the car is kept in a garage.

And my TPMS sensors are still fine at 8 years old, just had new tires installed last spring. If they fail before the next set of tires, I'll just put something over the light. I never had TPMS before, and I really don't think I need it now. I still check my own pressures, I'm not going to trust a dash light.

I heard 5-6 years on the sensor batteries. 8 would be good, but 10 would be great:

"The current industry association recommendations regarding inspecting and replacing tires due to age originate outside the United States.

The British Rubber Manufacturers Association (BRMA) recommended practice, issued June, 2001, states, "BRMA members strongly recommend that unused tyres should not be put into service if they are over six years old and that all tyres should be replaced ten years from the date of their manufacture."

"Environmental conditions like exposure to sunlight and coastal climates, as well as poor storage and infrequent use, accelerate the aging process. In ideal conditions, a tyre may have a life expectancy that exceeds ten years from its date of manufacture. However, such conditions are rare. Aging may not exhibit any external indications and, since there is no non-destructive test to assess the serviceability of a tyre, even an inspection carried out by a tyre expert may not reveal the extent of any deterioration.""

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=138

 

[dud]

OP, the wife and I put 3-4K miles on each of our vehicles. I use conventional oil and change once per year. For conventional I usually go 4K miles or one year.

 

[squirrel dog]

For me , short trips are severe service per my owners manual . My driving is about 500 miles per month . I change full syn oil at 3k , or twice a year . 2004 Dodge Ram 1500 that looks new . I have changed tires that looked new , but were 5+ years old ( dry rot ) .

 

[bryanl]

Manufacturers typically recommend driving every 2 weeks, 20 miles continuously each time, with the air conditioner running (set temp to hot in the winter). That's driving, not idling, which can be bad for the engine.

 

[local]

I have been doing oil changes once per year for the last 19 years. Never had a single oil related problem. The longest I have personally kept a vehicle is 11 years and that is my current garage queen 2002 Camaro which I put about 800 miles on this year. My daily is a 2000 F250 with 230,000 miles on it that I have been driving for the last 6 years. Even with the oil circulating through the turbo and being used to actuate the injectors in the F250 it leaks enough and I keep it topped off that I don't worry about changes other than one per year, if it didn't leak I would probably go to 6 month changes on it.

In the Camaro I have installed a catch can in the PCV line to trap the oil and other liquid residues before it can be sent into the combustion chamber. If I go too long without burning off the water in the crank case the fluids it collects are milky white due to the amount of water it contains. That is the problem with infrequent driving or short trips that don't burn those deposits off. The water and other hydrocarbons in there are acidic and will eat away at the bearings and other seals causing them to wear faster than they should. I try to never let it sit for more than a month without a heat up cycle to get rid of the water and if I do that there is much less water and other crud in the system overall.

So in short yearly oil changes are perfectly fine but never burning off the buildup by never heating the engine up enough is bad. Just taking steps to ensure you burn the crud off on a regular basis should be considered a maintenance item for you.

 

[bradly1101]

Manufacturers typically recommend driving every 2 weeks, 20 miles continuously each time, with the air conditioner running (set temp to hot in the winter). That's driving, not idling, which can be bad for the engine.

I have no reason to doubt this, but there is nothing about it in my owners or maintenance manuals.

 

[bradly1101]

I have been doing oil changes once per year for the last 19 years. Never had a single oil related problem. The longest I have personally kept a vehicle is 11 years and that is my current garage queen 2002 Camaro which I put about 800 miles on this year. My daily is a 2000 F250 with 230,000 miles on it that I have been driving for the last 6 years. Even with the oil circulating through the turbo and being used to actuate the injectors in the F250 it leaks enough and I keep it topped off that I don't worry about changes other than one per year, if it didn't leak I would probably go to 6 month changes on it.

In the Camaro I have installed a catch can in the PCV line to trap the oil and other liquid residues before it can be sent into the combustion chamber. If I go too long without burning off the water in the crank case the fluids it collects are milky white due to the amount of water it contains. That is the problem with infrequent driving or short trips that don't burn those deposits off. The water and other hydrocarbons in there are acidic and will eat away at the bearings and other seals causing them to wear faster than they should. I try to never let it sit for more than a month without a heat up cycle to get rid of the water and if I do that there is much less water and other crud in the system overall.

So in short yearly oil changes are perfectly fine but never burning off the buildup by never heating the engine up enough is bad. Just taking steps to ensure you burn the crud off on a regular basis should be considered a maintenance item for you.

My car gets up to maximum heat (a little below the center mark on the gauge) in less than a quarter mile. Wouldn't the rest of my three mile trip be enough for stuff to burn off? Does low mileage driving cause extra buildup or less?

 

[crashtech]

A fair amount of good advice has been given in this thread, enough to where a reasonable person could draw the conclusion that short drives are hard on an engine. But this goes against the way you want to use your vehicle, so I think the best advice for you is to just do what you want. Since you bought a brand-new vehicle to drive such low miles, there's no reason to believe you won't do so again. In 5 or 10 years, you can just replace it with something else, and any problems that have started due to the history of the vehicle will become someone else's problem.

 

[lxskllr]

In 5 or 10 years, you can just replace it with something else, and any problems that have started due to the history of the vehicle will become someone else's problem.

That's overly pessimistic. In ten years he'll have 4,000 miles on it. He could change his oil with the stuff shops recycle after changing oil, and it'll likely last longer than he will. He'll likely have more issues with the extraneous stuff(rubber, rust, electric...) than he'll ever have from the motor.

 

[crashtech]

That's overly pessimistic. In ten years he'll have 4,000 miles on it. He could change his oil with the stuff shops recycle after changing oil, and it'll likely last longer than he will. He'll likely have more issues with the extraneous stuff(rubber, rust, electric...) than he'll ever have from the motor.

Well okay, point being is that it doesn't matter in the OP's case. It is somewhat tiresome to have something that is fairly common knowledge to car guys get called into question over and over again, though.