I get conservative guys point about public assistance

[Fanatical Meat]

Long and worthwhile read:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/on...ontinue/ar-BBBOEaR?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

I just don't know what to think. There is definitely some form of enabling going on and she appears to have not learned or been able to make the right decision on things in life.
However I am truly torn its not my job to judge people, I want to help people but sometimes helping seems to do more harm than good.

snippets for the lazy:
Young mom, everyone in the family has some kind of disability. She seems to know more than medical professionals, everyone is on some kind of med. She seems disappointed that two kids don't have autism because it reduces her monthly check (I'm speculating and judging about this)
She appears to have trouble setting limits for the kids and doesn't seem disappointed with failure.
Plus the classic $300 per month cell phone bill.

Thoughts guys @glenn1 @Doc Savage Fan @werepossum not meant to be a call out so only contribute if you want

 

[zinfamous]

every once in a while, the Loch Ness Monster/Leprechaun (aka: Welfare queen) does appear!

 

[interchange]

I've treated many patients like this. A cultural expectation of receiving benefits. Very few didn't have some actual illness that impaired them (even if that illness was a personality disorder), but quite a few were likely able to work but unmotivated to do so. The hardest for me are people who really didn't want to be on disability but whose family put extreme pressure on them to do so.

From another perspective, though, this is by and large a class of people who lack a productive role model. In a sense, their social class is a disability itself. In order for most people to succeed, they need to have a productive role model they can identify with. So many people don't. And this is where entitlements can play a role in being a method of subjugation of a class of people rather than assistance.

I don't think the idea is bad or doomed, though. We just need to focus on goals of enhancing function rather than allowing dependence.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I've treated many patients like this. A cultural expectation of receiving benefits. Very few didn't have some actual illness that impaired them (even if that illness was a personality disorder), but quite a few were likely able to work but unmotivated to do so. The hardest for me are people who really didn't want to be on disability but whose family put extreme pressure on them to do so.

From another perspective, though, this is by and large a class of people who lack a productive role model. In a sense, their social class is a disability itself. In order for most people to succeed, they need to have a productive role model they can identify with. So many people don't. And this is where entitlements can play a role in being a method of subjugation of a class of people rather than assistance.

I don't think the idea is bad or doomed, though. We just need to focus on goals of enhancing function rather than allowing dependence.

Thank you for the perspective. Parts that really bothered me were:
Kid over eating the hot sauce that seemed so obvious to just say no more hot sauce but instead it's a medicine to treat the stomach ache

Her appearing disappointed that the twins didn't have Autism because the extra $1200 a month made ends meet

Seemingly no plan to address the sons crappy grades

Again I know love is more important than hate this story is a real struggle for me

 

[ch33zw1z]

For every case like this, how many others are there that arent.

 

[interchange]

Thank you for the perspective. Parts that really bothered me were:
Kid over eating the hot sauce that seemed so obvious to just say no more hot sauce but instead it's a medicine to treat the stomach ache
Her appearing disappointed that the twins didn't have Autism because the extra $1200 a month made ends meet
Seemingly no plan to address the sons crappy grades

Again I know love is more important than hate this story is a real struggle for me

Oh this is definitely farther along the slope of entitlement toward frank malingering than usual. But if you take a step back and imagine being her kid, becoming an adult, and thinking about your likelihood of being able to take care of yourself, then maybe you can appreciate how hard it is to escape a life built around government assistance. Even if you really wanted to, the gap in life skills and a template of success is pretty glaring.

 

[feralkid]

She seems disappointed that two kids don't have autism because it reduces her monthly check (I'm speculating and judging about this)

The two kids with suspected autism have several other current mental health diagnoses as well.

They are pretty messed up, o.k?

She felt they needed the official diagnosis for autism in order to get the additional assistance needed to care for them.

That's why she was disappointed.

$300 phone bill is the least of their problems.

Yikes.
.

 

[manly]

every once in a while, the Loch Ness Monster/Leprechaun (aka: Welfare queen) does appear!

I don't know the recent history of disability benefits, but the large growth in the program appears to correlate with Clinton-era welfare reform.

Hope I don't sound crass, but if they net $2k in checks per month and the mortgage is $350, that should be enough to support a 5 person household? I mean if they stopped mismanaging their limited resources. FFS they spend $433 per month on cell phones/TV/Internet. Just the cell phones alone are a clear waste, I'd rather they get free government cell phone service...

 

[Jhhnn]

Disability is one of the ways America takes care of the people in the places that the Job Creators blew out their ass. They have no use for these people & wouldn't give 'em the sweat off their balls. Jobs? Get Real, OK? Hedge fund ownership won't be creating jobs in Middle of Nowhere back woods broke dick Missouri & we all know it.

Judgemental-ism isn't really a solution, is it?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I've treated many patients like this. A cultural expectation of receiving benefits. Very few didn't have some actual illness that impaired them (even if that illness was a personality disorder), but quite a few were likely able to work but unmotivated to do so. The hardest for me are people who really didn't want to be on disability but whose family put extreme pressure on them to do so.

From another perspective, though, this is by and large a class of people who lack a productive role model. In a sense, their social class is a disability itself. In order for most people to succeed, they need to have a productive role model they can identify with. So many people don't. And this is where entitlements can play a role in being a method of subjugation of a class of people rather than assistance.

I don't think the idea is bad or doomed, though. We just need to focus on goals of enhancing function rather than allowing dependence.

I agree. To see how true this is, look at kids who grew up in the system/foster care etc. Every single one is institutionalized and has problems to a greater or lesser degree functioning in society.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I dunno if I'd say every single one, I wouldn't mind seeing some numbers.

We had foster kids and disabled people live with us for about 9 years total. They definitely were in a better place than they're own families. And most of them are functional adults. Some of the disabled people can never live on their own though, just the way it is

 

[feralkid]

I agree. To see how true this is, look at kids who grew up in the system/foster care etc. Every single one is institutionalized and has problems to a greater or lesser degree functioning in society.

Statements like that call for attribution.

 

[feralkid]

I don't know the recent history of disability benefits, but the large growth in the program appears to correlate with Clinton-era welfare reform.

Based on what?

 

[manly]

Based on what?

As the number of working-age Americans receiving disability rose from 7.7 million in 1996 to 13 million in 2015, so did the number of households with multiple family members on disability, climbing from an estimated 525,000 in 2000 to an estimated 850,000 in 2015, according to a Post analysis of census data. The analysis is probably an undercount.

Like I said, I don't know what the numbers were like since say the early 1980s. But since Bill Clinton and the GOP reformed welfare in 1996 and capped lifetime benefits, disability recipients have grown by over 70%. I said correlation, not causation.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The two kids with suspected autism have several other current mental health diagnoses as well.

They are pretty messed up, o.k?

She felt they needed the official diagnosis for autism in order to get the additional assistance needed to care for them.

That's why she was disappointed.

$300 phone bill is the least of their problems.

Yikes.
.

A $300 phone bill with a total of $433 spent on telecom/internet is a problem when its more than 20% of your total income. They pay more for Telecom service than their mortgage its a problem especially when you are taking out pay day loans.
regarding the boys it took multiple different visits to get them diagnosed with ADD and something else which again gets treated with a medication.
Being a single Mom who had kids when she was very young has to be tough, there just has to be a better way than whats happening here.

 

[feralkid]

A $300 phone bill with a total of $433 spent on telecom/internet is a problem when its more than 20% of your total income. They pay more for Telecom service than their mortgage its a problem especially when you are taking out pay day loans.
regarding the boys it took multiple different visits to get them diagnosed with ADD and something else which again gets treated with a medication.
Being a single Mom who had kids when she was very young has to be tough, there just has to be a better way than whats happening here.

Absolutely, but as others have said, snap judgement over the internet probably isn't the best way.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Oh this is definitely farther along the slope of entitlement toward frank malingering than usual. But if you take a step back and imagine being her kid, becoming an adult, and thinking about your likelihood of being able to take care of yourself, then maybe you can appreciate how hard it is to escape a life built around government assistance. Even if you really wanted to, the gap in life skills and a template of success is pretty glaring.

That's where I have the evil"ish" thoughts.

David Duke type stuff like pay her not to have children
Remove the kids and give them to a successful couple who can't have kids
Is medicating kids that much a form of abuse?
She essentially needs an extra 1-1.5k per month, that is pretty attainable with a job over a month. Where is her support network to help with the kids, what has she done to not have a support network.

Whole story troubles me, challenges me and sends me down dark paths.

 

[Jaskalas]

I just don't know what to think. There is definitely some form of enabling going on...

The need for CPS aside, with Basic Income there wouldn't be a "system" for her to game. She'd probably receive less than today, but it'd be straight forward and simple... no more need to care about her life choices. No more judgements, she'd be free to fail or succeed with minimum impact on the budget. No more concept of "enabling".

 

[Jaskalas]

that is pretty attainable with a job

With a job she'd start losing benefits. Current system traps people in poverty by forcing them to balance loss of benefits.

 

[1prophet]

Disability is one of the ways America takes care of the people in the places that the Job Creators blew out their ass. They have no use for these people & wouldn't give 'em the sweat off their balls. Jobs? Get Real, OK? Hedge fund ownership won't be creating jobs in Middle of Nowhere back woods broke dick Missouri & we all know it.

Judgemental-ism isn't really a solution, is it?

This right here, one of the many hidden costs of the 1% using their lobbied for rules and regulations so more of the income goes in their pocket and less into the pocket of the American middle class.

In exchange we get "cheap prices" and an ever increasing permanent underclass that not only doesn't work but is psychologically conditioned not to work yet at the same time feel entitled to the same lifestyle of those that do, that is why many of them would struggle to hold a $13 dollar per hour or more job stocking shelves at Walmart even if it was available.

But because this ever growing permanent underclass lives in the vicinity of the struggling middle class, it is easier to vilify them than our trickle down outsourcers who put profit before the very people and country that was the foundation of their financial successes in the first place.

 

[interchange]

That's where I have the evil"ish" thoughts.

David Duke type stuff like pay her not to have children
Remove the kids and give them to a successful couple who can't have kids
Is medicating kids that much a form of abuse?
She essentially needs an extra 1-1.5k per month, that is pretty attainable with a job over a month. Where is her support network to help with the kids, what has she done to not have a support network.

Whole story troubles me, challenges me and sends me down dark paths.

My mom was not shy about telling people how strongly she felt that people who "had kids on welfare" should have their tubes tied by the government. And she's the most compassionate person I think I've ever known. You're not bad for feeling that way. I don't think making policy on those feelings is effective, though I also don't think that the current setup is good either.

 

[Svnla]

for a divorce from her fourth husband

Goodness. Not once, not twice, not thrice, but fourth. Jerry Springer, where are you?

And almost $100 fo cable tv? Really? Money is tight and she spent almost $100 for cable tv? $300 for cell phone? $315 for furniture payment? $600 for electricity (with late charge)?

Goodness. Where is common sense?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Statements like that call for attribution.

Ever heard tje Samuel Clemens quote about liars, damn liars and, statisticians?
Prove me wrong. My observations may be anecdotal but, when you have never seen or heard of a case where it wasn't true, draw your own conclusions.

 

[Paratus]

People's ability to work and care for themselves falls on a curve. At one end you have your Bill Gates who could take care of themselves and entire towns for their entire lives on what they can make.

On the other end you have people who can barely take care of themselves and others who can take care themselves but only with assistance.

Some of those could move up and be capable of self-sufficiency with help. Others will never be able to care for themselves and will rely on assistance their entire lives.

There will always be people in this country who cannot care for themselves. They are still US citizens.

Unless we want to go back to letting the surplus population die welfare of some sort will always be needed. The trick is to help those who can be helped.

 

[edcoolio]

... because it is always someone else's fault.