If pointing out the flaws = "shitting on ideas" to you. OK. Whatever. Pretend there are no flaws and go full steam ahead. Lie to yourself because, on the superficial face of it, it seems like such an awesome idea...if you don't really look too closely.Okay, so you're just shitting on ideas then.
Got it.
You offered no substantive points. Your whole premise for knocking down an idea is: some people are bad.If pointing out the flaws = "shitting on ideas" to you. OK. Whatever. Pretend there are no flaws and go full steam ahead. Lie to yourself because, on the superficial face of it, it seems like such an awesome idea...if you don't really look too closely.
Squint.
Ooh, teamslam. Shut down any dissent by piling on and preventing anyone from disagreeing.@Jhhnn: at this point, the most productive thing to do might be to just ignore the goddamn degenerates. If enough people all slam the Ignore switch at once, we can theoretically get Chickenshit and his buddies here so completely shunned that they can only be "heard" by each other.
Wow. The hardheadedness of some in here is pretty unbelievable.You offered no substantive points. Your whole premise for knocking down an idea is: some people are bad.
Deep insight, guy.
Yeah this post is chock full of value.Cry harder, Chickenshit. You offer nothing of value and it's bound to happen sooner or later anyway; I'm just planting the suggestion.
And you refuse to acknowledge that some people are bad and screw up the system by their behavior and actions. I have provided plenty of reasons why their bad behavior ruins the system. Screwing your eyes tightly shut and refusing to acknowledge those reasons only serves to make you look like someone that turns a blind eye. Many people game the system, and that costs honest people billions and billions. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that? Is it because it breaks down your own argument?You offered no substantive points. Your whole premise for knocking down an idea is: some people are bad.
Deep insight, guy.
lol @ unoriginal and unintelligent trolls.Cry harder, Chickenshit. You offer nothing of value and it's bound to happen sooner or later anyway; I'm just planting the suggestion.
Very scary. Get help. Your war isn't going to accomplish anything. No it is void of value but its your own crap so you think it smells good. Get help.Compared to everything you post, it's solid gold. The gloves are off, motherfucker; I'm done trying to reason with your kind.
Be a leader, ignore us so you don't get so triggered every post. Ignore us. Do it.@Jhhnn: at this point, the most productive thing to do might be to just ignore the goddamn degenerates. If enough people all slam the Ignore switch at once, we can theoretically get Chickenshit and his buddies here so completely shunned that they can only be "heard" by each other.
IRS fraud, EBT fraud, SNAP fraud...do I REALLY have to be specific. Or are you burying your head in the sand and pretending such things don't exist and aren't rampant?You offered no substantive points. Your whole premise for knocking down an idea is: some people are bad.
Deep insight, guy.
My argument is based on those who take advantage of others and those who game the system.
Then provide a decent, realistic plan for UBI. 1.7M for all? That's pie-in the sky crap. Unless you want to completely shut down business investment in this country .A person gets a flat amount. There's no game to be played.
If, despite UBI, people end up homeless or drugged out, that's for rehab, or correctional, or mental institutions to sort out.
Let's not forget that on top the monthly "income", the nest egg is HUGE. It outright buys housing, transport, and education combined.
But honest, hard working, people shouldn't be !@#$ on and denied opportunities just because... why? You allude that they're out to scam or harm the system. It sounds more like you're afraid of the "others" in your life. What you fail to understand is that there is no "Us VS Them". We're all in this boat together and unless you have millions of dollars, then you and yours will also be struck by the loss of labor. We're going to need a plan of action for how people generally survive beyond employment. And it's a plan meant for everyone.
There is nothing to game, and most people who are in a bad place... have had doors shut on them. My entire purpose is to open doors.
Please ignore us. That will really make us feel bad. Start with your self. Nobody will follow you if you're a hypocrite and won't follow through. Nobody follows hypocrites. Be a hero, block us.Look at you two triggered little yellow snowflakes. It's almost as if I've hit on your major weak spot, that being you're trolls who thrive on attention, and you're scared that if I got enough people to ignore you two you'd have no more reason to post.
Hmm.
Hmm, hmm, hmm...
They probably will. And lower income groups will figure out new ways to game the IRS or some other system for billions.
Maybe the solution is to stop people from any income level from gaming the system? But somehow I really don't think you give a shit when poor people do it? And that's the difference between you and me. I don't like it when either side does it. You are only focused on one side.
Wow. The hardheadedness of some in here is pretty unbelievable.
Are you really claiming that all people are awesome with good intentions and that nobody is bad, except for those horrible rich Republicans? Seriously? Because that's really the only way you can disagree with my take on human behavior. I'm sorry you don't like that humans are as I describe. But closing your eyes, ignoring facts, and trying to dismiss me with a simple wave of your hand doesn't do your argument any service at all. We all know better, including you.
If you guys don't want to be realistic, there's nothing to discuss here. If you want blow smoke up each other's ass and see the world through rose colored glasses, help yourselves. Feel free to live in la la land. However, nobody lives in that same world that you seem to think exists.
And you refuse to acknowledge that some people are bad and screw up the system by their behavior and actions. I have provided plenty of reasons why their bad behavior ruins the system. Screwing your eyes tightly shut and refusing to acknowledge those reasons only serves to make you look like someone that turns a blind eye. Many people game the system, and that costs honest people billions and billions. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that? Is it because it breaks down your own argument?
Or are you saying that it's OK when poor people do it, but not when rich people do it, much like Jhhnn imples?
No one claimed your strawman that all people are awesome. My point, which I made a while back, was that we have 1 in 5 children in poverty. If UBI can improve that number (if anything can) then it is an idea worth exploring. I'd like to see a pilot program in a few different sized cities and even more theoretical study of the idea.IRS fraud, EBT fraud, SNAP fraud...do I REALLY have to be specific. Or are you burying your head in the sand and pretending such things don't exist and aren't rampant?
Seriously, wtf is wrong with you? What's with the pretense? Don't play stupid with me. You'll only end up looking stupid in the process.
Then provide a decent, realistic plan for UBI. 1.7M for all? That's pie-in the sky crap. Unless you want to completely shut down business investment in this country .
Present a real, valid UBI plan that can work, not some BS to make everyone think they can be rich bitches. Even Finland only thinks that UBI can be $850 - $900 a month.
Be realistic, not ridiculous.
iow, you can't bring yourself to address scams by both sides, only one side. Which is why you're a partisan tool, Jhhnn. You have proven it beyond a shadow of a doubt now.
Congrats. I always knew it but now you have demonstrated your bias clearly to the rest of the forum, or at least to those who can recognize that bias goes to both party members in here. Unfortunately, it seems like there are so few of those here in P&N. So many want to take a side and want to make excuses for their own choice by sliming the other.
And THAT is the problem with US politics. YOU are part of the problem, Jhhnn, as are so many others in here that solely lean to one side and can't find a happy medium.
There has to be compromise. Your side can't have all they want and neither can the other. Until people learn that nothing will be resolved in this country. Both sides need to stop being hard-headed assholes. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening any time soon.
No doubt you'll come back with some 'blah, blah, blah, Republicans' response. It's what you do.
I already gave accurate figures. You're latching onto denial by fixating on a prior demonstration of 1.7m per couple. That was proof of concept that there's enough money, as a Republican argument that I once believed is that even a 100% tax would not be enough money to really change things. So I open by demonstrating, yes there is, there's enough money in this country to make every household worth a million+.
As I keep telling you, the actual number is a quarter of that. The following is a repeat of prior posts:
$15.5 Trillion personal income in the United States.
At a UBI of $1k / month per person, every couple would start life off with a $432,000 nest egg. That's the realistic quarter version of the figure you fixated on. This figure would be enough to secure housing, transport and education. All the tools for a "free ride" into the Middle Class. The monthly "income" of $2k for a couple will give them options should they want to move or find new work. All without the hoops and hurdles they currently have to beg for. It is my "Libertarian" version of an already existing "welfare state".
- 24% Tax to provide ~3.7 Trillion in Basic Income.
Yes, yes it is. But the OP is about welfare queens, not billionaires getting tax breaks. So what you are essentially doing here is using the "They are just as bad" argument, which I've been repeatedly told is stupid, invalid, and unreasonable.Fraud in public assistance programs is a totally different issue than billionaires buying politicians and elections.
Your assumption is that every household would be able to live on their UBI contribution, plus whatever income they have left over after being raped by taxes, without touching the contributions to the children. That simply isn't the case. The well-to-do folks would have no problem doing that, at least most of them. But those living without jobs would still be screwed and we would be right back to the same old, same old. Plus, with UBI we'd have to gut most current public assistance programs in order to make the numbers work.I already gave accurate figures. You're latching onto denial by fixating on a prior demonstration of 1.7m per couple. That was proof of concept that there's enough money, as a Republican argument that I once believed is that even a 100% tax would not be enough money to really change things. So I open by demonstrating, yes there is, there's enough money in this country to make every household worth a million+.
As I keep telling you, the actual number is a quarter of that. The following is a repeat of prior posts:
$15.5 Trillion personal income in the United States.
At a UBI of $1k / month per person, every couple would start life off with a $432,000 nest egg. That's the realistic quarter version of the figure you fixated on. This figure would be enough to secure housing, transport and education. All the tools for a "free ride" into the Middle Class. The monthly "income" of $2k for a couple will give them options should they want to move or find new work. All without the hoops and hurdles they currently have to beg for. It is my "Libertarian" version of an already existing "welfare state".
- 24% Tax to provide ~3.7 Trillion in Basic Income.
Yes, yes it is. But the OP is about welfare queens, not billionaires getting tax breaks. So what you are essentially doing here is using the "They are just as bad" argument, which I've been repeatedly told is stupid, invalid, and unreasonable.
So pick your poison.