I get conservative guys point about public assistance

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jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
I'd be preaching to the choir in here to say that computer tech now pervades nearly every aspect of life. We are, hopefully, all aware of the huge impact of the tech industry and what is has done for the economy both domestically and internationally over the last 25 years.

So why play dumb about its impact?

Regarding automation, nice red herring. I'll pass.
A) I wasn't. You were overstating its importance.
B) T'wasn't a red herring. It's a real economic force. If you don't want to address it, fine, but then you're pretending your utopia's magic will last forever.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Actually, I do agree with many of their assertions and conclusions, Jhhnn.

The difference is that they present their findings in a non-partisan manner, and matter-of-factly. They don't whine about the right like some butthurt douche.

Perhaps you might even learn something from them?

Why then have you denigrated the very idea of public assistance throughout this thread & whined about people being unworthy of it?

They say more, even to the point of transferring capital down the scale & you say less. They've advocated more bargaining power for everyday Americans & you've always opposed unions, iirc, the only way people will get it. They point out that the lower 50% took the high hard one wrt share of national income & you crow over them gaining 2.6% in actual income over 40 years while the top 10% gained 231%.

But I'm the libruhl partisan & you're not a conservative partisan, even though you quack like one.
 
Reactions: Azuma Hazuki
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Why then have you denigrated the very idea of public assistance throughout this thread & whined about people being unworthy of it?
I have already stated the necessity of public assistance in this thread. My contention is that it should be a cushion, not a couch. With few exceptions, public assistance should not be a perpetual benefit. Able bodied people should work, and if they can only manage a min-wage job they should work and get training to improve their lot in life.

They say more, even to the point of transferring capital down the scale & you say less. They've advocated more bargaining power for everyday Americans & you've always opposed unions, iirc, the only way people will get it. They point out that the lower 50% took the high hard one wrt share of national income & you crow over them gaining 2.6% in actual income over 40 years while the top 10% gained 231%.

But I'm the libruhl partisan & you're not a conservative partisan, even though you quack like one.
I didn't "crow" about anything, You claimed that their share fell by 25%. I merely pointed out that you were wrong, by quite a bit. At least you admit that now, even if it's somewhat reluctantly.
 
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Sep 12, 2004
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A) I wasn't. You were overstating its importance.
Of course. The importance of computer tech in today's society is overstated.

What alternate reality do you live in?

T'wasn't a red herring. It's a real economic force. If you don't want to address it, fine, but then you're pretending your utopia's magic will last forever.
It's a red herring in relation to the argument and OP. Do I really need to hyperlink what a red herring is?

You would lose that argument.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Of course. The importance of computer tech in today's society is overstated.

What alternate reality do you live in?


It's a red herring in relation to the argument and OP. Do I really need to hyperlink what a red herring is?

You would lose that argument.
I find your use of pedantry familiar.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I have already stated the necessity of public assistance in this thread. My contention is that it should be a cushion, not a couch. With few exceptions, public assistance should not be a perpetual benefit. Able bodies people should work, and if they can only manage a min-wage job they should work and get training to improve their lot in life.


I didn't "crow" about anything, You claimed that their share fell by 25%. I merely pointed out that you were wrong, by quite a bit. At least you admit that now, even if it's somewhat reluctantly.

According to your own link, and I quote-

Forty years ago, the top 1 percent of earners took home 10.5 percent of the total national income, and the bottom half earned 20 percent of it. By 2014, those percentages effectively flipped, with the top 1 percent earning a 20 percent share and the bottom half dropping to 12.5 percent.

I referenced the lower 75% because the people between 50% & 75% have also lost income share.

Your source claims it's worse than my source did, probably because of the difference between income & taxable income. If I start at 20% & end up with 12.5%, my share is cut nearly in half. If I start with 10% & end up with 20%, my share doubles. simple math.

The rest of it is just refusal to recognize reality. As automation & business consolidation progress, more Americans will be getting the "your services are no longer required" routine. The guys at the top don't mean just for awhile, they mean from now on. Witness the rust belt. Those jobs will come back when those people are willing to work cheaper than robots & the Chinese.
 

Azuma Hazuki

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2012
1,532
866
131
I actually don't think he's outright, or at least actively, racist. He's not smart enough to make the connection, IMO. Instead he ends up being racist on the institutional level, i.e., as a by-product of his complete economic illiteracy and hardwired FYGM attitude.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Being a conservative in america means participating in, apologizing for, or at least looking the other way for white nationalism. When you do this for decades it comes ingrained in people's nature; it's literally their culture. So when they write the PR copy that underlying political foundation is inherently reflected in the rhetoric.

He knows who Reagan was pandering to with "welfare queens" same as he knows who Trump was pandering to with "kenyan muslim" and so on. Everyone knows, even Jhhnn, but politics is the game of putting a better face on human narcissism.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,596
7,850
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Being a conservative in america means participating in, apologizing for, or at least looking the other way for white nationalism. When you do this for decades it comes ingrained in people's nature; it's literally their culture. So when they write the PR copy that underlying political foundation is inherently reflected in the rhetoric.

He knows who Reagan was pandering to with "welfare queens" same as he knows who Trump was pandering to with "kenyan muslim" and so on. Everyone knows, even Jhhnn, but politics is the game of putting a better face on human narcissism.
No, politics is being able to make the better argument that is either acknowledged, or bypassed.

By screaming "RACIST" at every conservative, you conveniently allow them to legitimately use the talking-point defense of "if I disagree with you, you call me a racist".

Your arguments aren't so much arguments, as accusations. And hence, not politics, but judgements. But, uh, keep on keepin' on I guess.
 

jmagg

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,059
386
126
Being a conservative in america means participating in, apologizing for, or at least looking the other way for white nationalism. When you do this for decades it comes ingrained in people's nature; it's literally their culture. So when they write the PR copy that underlying political foundation is inherently reflected in the rhetoric.

I do suppose when leaders (like yourself) of academic western enlightenment finally get it done, your sorts will require a larger share of the pie than the rest.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
No, politics is being able to make the better argument that is either acknowledged, or bypassed.

By screaming "RACIST" at every conservative, you conveniently allow them to legitimately use the talking-point defense of "if I disagree with you, you call me a racist".

Your arguments aren't so much arguments, as accusations. And hence, not politics, but judgements. But, uh, keep on keepin' on I guess.

Between the two of us one is certainly playing the politics, and I'm just putting forth facts of the case. I choose to do so because it's an area where better people are guaranteed to win, rather than politics where liberals lose to degenerates all the time.

Also I think you know just as well as Jhhnn that enabling the anti civil rights vote is why we are where we are.

I do suppose when leaders (like yourself) of academic western enlightenment finally get it done, your sorts will require a larger share of the pie than the rest.

The academic western enlightenment brought about a better breed of people; you know, the sort who'd give up some of their pie instead of none.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,596
7,850
136
Between the two of us one is certainly playing the politics, and I'm just putting forth facts of the case. I choose to do so because it's an area where better people are guaranteed to win, rather than politics where liberals lose to degenerates all the time.

Also I think you know just as well as Jhhnn that enabling the anti civil rights vote is why we are where we are.



The academic western enlightenment brought about a better breed of people; you know, the sort who'd give up some of their pie instead of none.
You aren't making a substantive argument, but are instead instantly accusing the people who you're arguing against of being a big bad racist that wants to lynch minorities and rape women.

You don't get within half a mile of actual policy - what makes liberal policy good and conservative policy barbaric - because you're caught up with the whole, "you're a bigoty bigot-head name-calling" dance that we should leave to conservatives without a substantive argument to rest on.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
You aren't making a substantive argument, but are instead instantly accusing the people who you're arguing against of being a big bad racist that wants to lynch minorities and rape women.

You don't get within half a mile of actual policy - what makes liberal policy good and conservative policy barbaric - because you're caught up with the whole, "you're a bigoty bigot-head name-calling" dance that we should leave to conservatives without a substantive argument to rest on.

It's simple empirical fact that when Chicken & Reagan rant about welfare queens that's a clear signal to chucky types which side to vote for. They know that, and you + Jhhnn also know that, everyone knows that. But we play this game of hiding the plain facts and pretend it has much to do with the facade of policy talking points, wouldn't want to upset the degens; that's the politics. Same as politicians attacking evolution or whatever has nothing to do with science, but rather just angling for the religious vote.

Liberals lose because they choose to play a game where facts don't matter and thus degeneracy has an inherent advantage. The only judgement worth making here is whether they deserve to lose.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,596
7,850
136
It's simple empirical fact that when Chicken & Reagan rant about welfare queens that's a clear signal to chucky types which side to vote for. They know that, and you + Jhhnn also know that, everyone knows that. But we play this game of hiding the plain facts and pretend it has much to do with policy, wouldn't want to upset the degens; that's the politics.

Liberals lose because they choose to play a game where facts don't matter and thus degeneracy has an inherent advantage. The only judgement worth making here is whether they deserve to lose.
Yes, young bucks, t-bone steaks and welfare queens = minorities/others.

The thing is, you know it, AND they know it. But they can forever and a day ignore that. No matter how much you yell at them or point it out.

Which means that while you're yelling at them, they just smirk, say it isn't racism, and get to dodge the entire substantive policy argument.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Yes, young bucks, t-bone steaks and welfare queens = minorities/others.

The thing is, you know it, AND they know it. But they can forever and a day ignore that. No matter how much you yell at them or point it out.

Which means that while you're yelling at them, they just smirk, say it isn't racism, and get to dodge the entire substantive policy argument.

Seems to me they get quite a lot of help from the liberals who also insist on ignoring the basic underlying facts of how the world works to play politics poorly. You know, where we argue for 100 pages why evolution is the most solid scientific theory to degens only angling for the religious vote. Or 100 pages of econ to degens who will continue to successfully angle for the white nationalist vote. I'm sure one day all that blather will have some effect on people who never gave a shit about your libtard substance in the first place.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,596
7,850
136
Seems to me they get quite a lot of help from the liberals who also insist on ignoring the basic underlying facts of how the world works to play politics poorly. You know, where we argue for 100 pages why evolution is the most solid scientific theory to degens only angling for the religious vote. Or 100 pages of econ to degens who will continue to successfully angle for the white nationalist vote. I'm sure one day all that blather will have some effect on people who never gave a shit about your libtard substance in the first place.
Solution: call them racists...and win political office from it!

Ok then.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
You aren't making a substantive argument, but are instead instantly accusing the people who you're arguing against of being a big bad racist that wants to lynch minorities and rape women.

You don't get within half a mile of actual policy - what makes liberal policy good and conservative policy barbaric - because you're caught up with the whole, "you're a bigoty bigot-head name-calling" dance that we should leave to conservatives without a substantive argument to rest on.

Alt-right tolls love liberal tears. He loves conservatives getting huffy, defensive & stubborn.

It's a different kind of trollery.
 
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