I got the Holy Ghost today!!!!!

[IndieSnob]

Originally posted by: Tinkerhell

Originally posted by: IndieSnob
I love threads like these. It really points out the people who have no basis in reality.

Who here has no basis in reality?

Psttttttt, I won't name names, but you're not one of them

 

[Tinkerhell]

Originally posted by: IndieSnob

Originally posted by: Tinkerhell

Originally posted by: IndieSnob
I love threads like these. It really points out the people who have no basis in reality.

Who here has no basis in reality?

Psttttttt, I won't name names, but you're not one of them

Thanks

 

[Chunkee]

much love comes from Jesus. God Bless you and your new found peeps.

JC

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: Tinkerhell

Originally posted by: maziwanka
schizophrenia? hahahahaha. awesome.

Its really not funny

i wasnt laughing at the actual disorder. i was laughing at the fact that he was sharing his religious experience with us and then towards the last pages of the post, someone had drawn a possible conclusion that he had schizophrenia (not jokingly either).

 

[Chunkee]

for speaking in tongues to really be valid, there must be an interpreter

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Chunkee
for speaking in tongues to really be valid, there must be an interpreter

There must be multiple interpreters who all come to the same conclusion at the same time. 1 interpreter == 1 person making things up. The more people that simultaneously understand the spoken language, the better the scrutiny, the more believable.

 

[Lazy8s]

Originally posted by: Chunkee
for speaking in tongues to really be valid, there must be an interpreter

lol what a crock. you mean there has to be someone standing next to you saying stuff that might or might not be what you said? How can you have an interpreter if the guy saying it doesn't even know what he's saying. (Yes the OP said even he didn't know what he was saying) For me to believe in tongues 2 people have to be able to understand each other talking in the language, I have yet to see any sort of documented experience like this. Think about it, if talking in tongues was the way to talk to God then why would the churches pray in English? Would God understand? If God understands English then why do you need to talk in tongues? Don't you think he gets talked to in enough languages already? If everyone who talks in tongues is talking in a "different tongue" (meaning they don't understand each other) then how does God keep up with all the different languages? I mean that adds 1000s of more languages he gets prayed to in every day. I know "cause he's God" but why would you speaking a language that not you nor anyone else understands make you closer to God?

To the OP: I'm glad you had a wonderfuly religious experience, to me that's what really counts.
Just cause I don't necessecaril believe it doesn't mean I don't think it's cool, just don't let your religion turn you into a predjudiced bigot, racist or any other overly judgemental person.

 

[Tinkerhell]

Originally posted by: Chunkee
for speaking in tongues to really be valid, there must be an interpreter

How can they interpret mombo jombo? C'mon, you really believe this?

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: Tinkerhell
I'm not trying to sound bias, but I have never questioned Judaism. I was brought up Jewish, and have a great respect for the religion. One thing about Jews is that they are focused on a belief thats been around since the beginning of their religion, they didn't try and change it, they never tried to convert people. They are very set in their beliefs and I admire that. I don't think they need to break free.

many of the jews that i've encountered were very quick to criticize other religions while blindly defending their own faith (citing that other religions "copy" their religious traditions, etc..). i am not making a sweeping claim about all jews, but i simply tell you what i've encountered so far.

 

[Tinkerhell]

Originally posted by: maziwanka

Originally posted by: Tinkerhell
I'm not trying to sound bias, but I have never questioned Judaism. I was brought up Jewish, and have a great respect for the religion. One thing about Jews is that they are focused on a belief thats been around since the beginning of their religion, they didn't try and change it, they never tried to convert people. They are very set in their beliefs and I admire that. I don't think they need to break free.

many of the jews that i've encountered were very quick to criticize other religions while blindly defending their own faith (citing that other religions "copy" their religious traditions, etc..). i am not making a sweeping claim about all jews, but i simply tell you what i've encountered so far.

Of course they will criticize other religions, because they contradict what they think. Christianity is Judaism with Jesus added and some other stuff to make the religion their very own. The first Christians were jews. Jesus was a Jew

 

[Kenazo]

For those who seem to just be posting here, w/o having read the entire thread, here's my original post in this thread.

Alright, let's check out some verses on speaking in tongues:
Ok, let's look at the original Pentecost:

Acts 2:1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs--we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" 12Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?"
13Some, however, made fun of them and said, "They have had too much wine."

The first question I ask is, what was the reason that these apostles all of a sudden could speak many languages, by miraculous means? It was so that they could spread the word of God to other nations. If I could suddenly speak Swahili with out having studied it, I would be speaking in tongues as the apostles did. There is no mention in the bible that I could find of any apostles babbling off in some unintelagiable language that was not an actual earthly language. Many Religions claim to transfer ppl to some higher level of communications with a deity, nature or whatever. The idea of suddenly being "overcome" by the spirit and speaking in some quacked language doesn't sound like something a Christ that was a true God would cause, if every other religion can do the same thing. Would it feel any less real to those experiencing i? No, I believe it is just something that humans are capable of doing to themselves if they are short on oxygen. Think about it, hyperventalate long enough from either chanting, singing praise and worship music, or breathing in a brown paper bag and you will say all sorts of things that will feel inspired.

Summary: The apostles and the early believers could speak in tongues (other languages) so they could spread the gospel to ppl groups that did not speak their language.


1 Corinthians 14:

1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[3] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[4] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.
13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.
18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.
20Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21In the Law it is written:
"Through men of strange tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.
22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
34As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.
39Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

I like this last passage, especially the Rules for orderly worship found in verses 27-28. I would ask you how many people were speaking in "tongues" at the service you were at? 3, 4, 5, 20? Was there someone interpretting for each of them? If not, the action had no place in the church, assuming that this passage speaks of "tongues" as something other than another earthly language, for the sake of evangelism, but rather speaks of being able to babel in a deistic language.

Finally, what is your focus as a Christian? True, the bible says that believers are to search out the "Greater gifts", but to what point? To worship God, or to edify yourself? How about to reach "the lost" (even though I don't like that term). The problem I have with the entire apostolic movement, and to a vast extent modern Christianity is that it is very self-serving. It has ceased being about "What can I do for God" and changed into "What can God do for me?"

I'm reminded of one further passage:

1 Samuel 15
21 The soldiers took sheep and cattle from the plunder, the best of what was devoted to God, in order to sacrifice them to the LORD your God at Gilgal."
22 But Samuel replied:

"Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD ?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the LORD ,
he has rejected you as king."

Reading that Passage, I am reminded that God's first priority is for us to obey him. All that we do in worship, in outreach, in prayer is quite secondary to living a life of obediance to him. God doesn't require that we have to be 100% perfect to be a christian, however he does require that we try. Speaking in tongues is completely fruitless if we don't live a life of obediance between Sundays.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on this topic, I hope it made some sense.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Chunkee
for speaking in tongues to really be valid, there must be an interpreter

Guy Speaking in Tongues "Rubbub Woot Woot Ayieeeee Na!!!"

Interpreter "He says one of you fscktards is standing on his foot"

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: maziwanka

Originally posted by: Tinkerhell
I'm not trying to sound bias, but I have never questioned Judaism. I was brought up Jewish, and have a great respect for the religion. One thing about Jews is that they are focused on a belief thats been around since the beginning of their religion, they didn't try and change it, they never tried to convert people. They are very set in their beliefs and I admire that. I don't think they need to break free.

many of the jews that i've encountered were very quick to criticize other religions while blindly defending their own faith (citing that other religions "copy" their religious traditions, etc..). i am not making a sweeping claim about all jews, but i simply tell you what i've encountered so far.

Well, it's kind of pointless. I don't think anyone will deny that Christianity has it's roots in Judaism, but it's a silly argument. Here's a Jew who doesn't really care what other people believe, as long as it makes their lives happier for them. I attended a rabbincal seminary for quite a few years, so I think I'm certainly capable of a long, deep discussion about Christianity with questions that may be tough to answer, but seriously, what's the point? I believe what I believe and I'm quite comfortable with it. You believe whatever works for you. If it makes you a better, happier person, then go for it.

 

[Lazy8s]

nice post kenazo, exactly what I was trying to say but you quoted. I should bring my bible to work...

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Metalloid
[Don't worry, I am not offended in any way. Like I said, I even thought my own girlfriend was insane the first couple times I heard it. Then I just thought that everyone was faking it to try and fit in.

The phenomenon is called glossolalia, and it is associated both with religious observances and some types of insanity. The ancient Greeks used it in certain rituals, so it predates Christianity. Interestingly, what you say in such a state depends on the language you speak. An English speaker will utter random sequences of phonemes from English, while a Mandarin speaker will use Mandarin's quite different set of phonemes. However, glossolalia has no syntactic structure, so it's not a language.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Metalloid
Started going to an Apostolic church with my girlfriend about 6 months ago. Got re-baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in February, and have been seeking the Holy Ghost ever since.

Today was the day!!!!

I spent about a half an hour at the alter with all of the church's ministry praying over me. I eventually felt the spirit of God take complete control of me, and I spoke in other tongues as the spirit gave me the ability to.

Christian bashers can flame if they truly find it necessary, but this is the happiest day of my life, and nothing can bring me down right now.

Even if you aren't religious, at least be happy for me.

You spoke in tongues.....

I am religious... but I have to leave this thread before I bash you.

 

[Kenazo]

Originally posted by: Lazy8s
nice post kenazo, exactly what I was trying to say but you quoted. I should bring my bible to work...

http://bible.gospelcom.net/ I sure didn't type that all out.

 

[OutHouse]

I have never understood the trinity. who the hell is the holy spirit, where did he come from and why do people pray to he/she/it...

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: UglyCassanova

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: Heisenberg

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: notfred
uh... I know I'm not the only one who thinks stories like this sound utterly ridiculous. I know you enjoyed your day and all. But come on, how can anyone with half a brain really beleived you were possessed by spirits... it's about as realistic as "The Excorcist".

there are a lot of stuff that can't be explained by scientific methods.. perhaps this is one of them

Err...there's a lot of stuff we don't understand yet. Doesn't mean it can't be explained rationally - we just don't know how yet. And never underestimate the capacity of the human mind to deceive itself.

thats your take on it, but I have experienced many things that simply CANT be explained by scientific methods..

How the fvck do you know?

google up stigmata.. and explain how that can happen

edit: I am not saying that I have experienced stigmata.. its just one of those things that cant be explained..

and you are an asshat, use nicer language please...

Okay I know I sad I was going to leave the thread. Please prove there is stigmata BEFORE you ask science to prove it.

 

[Tinkerhell]

Originally posted by: Citrix
I have never understood the trinity. who the hell is the holy spirit, where did he come from and why do people pray to he/she/it...

According to Christians:

"Not only is the Holy Spirit is God, the Spirit is a full person of the Trinity. What is meant by that? (Forgive me for talking strange here, but this is about the Holy Spirit, the One that can least be described by words.) The Spirit can be addressed as 'you' by other 'I's (such as you and me), and can respond as an 'I'. The Spirit is an 'I', able to take action and cause action. The Spirit is able to be a 'we' with other 'I's.


In a Barna survey in 1997, 61% of US residents surveyed agreed with the statement the the Holy Spirit is "a symbol of God's presence or power, but is not a living entity". Even more : that answer was held by a majority or near-majority of those in most every Christian denominational family, including mainline Protestants and evangelical Christians, and was most common in non-whites and young people. It's not a new view. Back in the days of the early church, Athenagoras wrote that the Spirit was an 'emanation' of God the Father, and some others thought of the Spirit in the same terms as the Talmudic discussions on the divine Shekinah (Presence), as an expression of what Christians call the 'Father'.


Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is a person and is God :


the fact that the Spirit's work in the Old Testament is closely identified with the Word of YHWH spoken by the prophets (this was affirmed by the early church in 2 Peter 1:21);

the close ties between Jesus' mission and the work of the Spirit (see the work of the Spirit);

the close ties between the mission of the apostles and the work of the Spirit; esp. see 1 Peter 1:12;

The episode with Hananiah (Ananias) in Acts 5, where first, Peter says that Hananiah lied to the Holy Spirit, then later says that he lied not to men but to God;

The trinitarian baptismal formula found in Scripture (Matt 29:19): "in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". It dates to the church's earliest days;

Jesus made a habit of confronting traditions with "box-breaking" actions. He ate with tax collectors and sinners, He turned over the tables of the money changers in the temple, He talked to the woman at the well, He healed the occupier-centurion's daughter. The Holy Spirit does the same kind of thing in Acts, and ever since.
n Scripture, the Holy Spirit has intellect, emotions, and will, and can be grieved.


The Spirit can act in whatever manner the Spirit wants to act. The Spirit generally acts through the church, but doesn't have to; the Wind blows where it will. The Spirit also doesn't have to always be seriously focused on those purposes; the Spirit's got a playful side.


This is all stuff that can't be true of an emanation or a (or even 'The') Force. That is usually how we experience the Spirit and know of the Spirit's presence, but that is not what the Spirit is . As God, the Spirit is cause, and that cause has effect.


Yet, there are those in the Christian churches who reduce the Holy Spirit to a force. Or, to a collective will or a living memory of the Body, or the force of emotion or conscience within a person. Those people, fine as they are, are describing a different spirit than the Holy Spirit of the Christian faith. The Spirit works in all of these ways and more, yet against all of that at times."

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: UglyCassanova

Originally posted by: z0mb13
thats your take on it, but I have experienced many things that simply CANT be explained by scientific methods..

How the fvck do you know?

google up stigmata.. and explain how that can happen

So you've experienced Stigmata?

no..

I can give you an example.. but its gonna take too long to type..

I come from a third world country... I saw a lot of stuff that you guys dont see

So Stigmata can only happen in third world countries? USA is exempt?

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Metalloid

Originally posted by: spunkz
can these guys heal the sick too? the apostles could do that.

The apostoles never healed anyone. God healed people through the apostles because they had enough faith. God does not explicity give people the ability to heal others today, but prayer is very powerful.

Another area Apostolic church (a sibling church I guess you could say) had a girl that was holding a needle in her mouth while she fixed someone's dress. Someone made her laugh and she swallowed the 2 inch long needle. They rushed her to the hospital, praying for her healing the whole way, and after x-raying her 3 times they could not find the needle anywhere in her body.

Anything can be accomplished in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And you know this because.... You were told it happened OR you saw her swallow the needle and went with her to see her xrays?

 

[Lazy8s]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: UglyCassanova

Originally posted by: z0mb13
thats your take on it, but I have experienced many things that simply CANT be explained by scientific methods..

How the fvck do you know?

google up stigmata.. and explain how that can happen

So you've experienced Stigmata?

no..

I can give you an example.. but its gonna take too long to type..

I come from a third world country... I saw a lot of stuff that you guys dont see

Like people putting nails through their hands then burning the would closed?

 

[Lazy8s]

Originally posted by: Metalloid

Originally posted by: spunkz
can these guys heal the sick too? the apostles could do that.

The apostoles never healed anyone. God healed people through the apostles because they had enough faith. God does not explicity give people the ability to heal others today, but prayer is very powerful.

Another area Apostolic church (a sibling church I guess you could say) had a girl that was holding a needle in her mouth while she fixed someone's dress. Someone made her laugh and she swallowed the 2 inch long needle. They rushed her to the hospital, praying for her healing the whole way, and after x-raying her 3 times they could not find the needle anywhere in her body.

Anything can be accomplished in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

What about those people who pray for someone and that person dies? Have the people who prayed for the girl ever pray for anyone that didn't live?

I have serious issues with healing by prayer or anything else that's based off whether or not you "pray hard enough" or "believe it enough".

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Tinkerhell
I won't sit here and say he didn't have a religious experience, because I don't know, I wasn't there. But from a practical standpoint, I feel bad for him because I think he has some problems if this stuff is really happening to him

Well one of the features of Schizophrenia is that a sufferer often does hear voices that he attributes to a Religious or Supernatural source

My nephew went Schizo. He never attributed anything to Religion but he would ramble about all the secret underground organizations and their secret meetings and handshakes.

He is really really bad now. He will rarely talk to you and usually it is to scream at you to leave him alone. God helped remove a needle from some girls throat but he certainly didnt help my nephew. Whatever floats his boat I guess.