I hate long signatures in emails

[Sunner]

I just feel compelled to ask...
Do those legal disclaimers carry any weight whatsoever in the US or something?
They annoy the crap out of me, mostly because around here, they're worth absolutely jack.
If someone sends me a mail, it's perfectly within my legal rights to do whatever the hell I want with it, unless I actually bind myself by contract to following the legal mumbo jumbo.
Is it different across the pond?

 

[Axoliien]

Originally posted by: McGyver
my bad yo, so much to say about people's signature here in ATOT, such as this one

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
n Bottles of beer on the wall
n Bottles of beer
u Take one down, pass it around
(n-1) Bottles of beer on the wall

Noted!

 

[911paramedic]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Worth the watch for sure...... <--That was the entire message, with a link at the bottom.


-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxxxxx@aol.com
To: xxxxxxxxx@aol.com; xxxxxxxxx@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 7:29 am
Subject: Watch this...I'm not kidding



Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
Attached Message
From: Txx Wxxa <xxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com>
To: Shxxn Anxxxxai <axxxxxx01@hawaii.rr.com>
Cc: yuxxx doxxxxo <yuxxxxxxxxx7@aol.com>; kxxxxxujii <fuxxxx3@hawaii.rr.com>; hiroyo xxxxxxxxxxa <haxxxxxxxxxxori@msn.com>; Gxxxxxxxx xoto <hiraxxxxxxxxxx2@hawaii.rr.com>; doxxxxx hxxxxxxxxnt <hxxxxxxxx@schofield.army.mil>; Iris Kxxxxxxxxa <irixxxxxxxxxxxxxa@gmail.com>; sam &vicki xxxxxxxxxa <kxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com>; kyxxxxxxxxxx@comcast.net; Kris Laxxxxxxxxxxx <klxxxxxxxxxx@cox.net>; lauxxxxxxxxxxa@hawaii.rr.com; Maxxxa Cxxxig M Cxxx613 AOC/AMDM Logistics <crxxxxxxxxxxxxxtr@hickam.af.mil>; joyce xxxxxxxxxxx <mxxxxxxxxxxxx4@aol.com>; Taxxxxxxxxxi Ayxxxxxx 374 MSG/SVS <ayaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxp@yokota.af.mil>; Moxx YoxxOxxxx <moxxxxxxxxxxxxo@sbcglobal.net>; brian xxxxxxxxxxxxxro <brxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@hawaii.rr.com>; pxxxxxxxxxxxxxc@aol.com; Victor Rxxxxxxxxxx <vrxxxxxxxxxx@freedomtgi.com>; Edward Sxxxxxxxxxx <ed@irxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxvisory.com>; mae taxxxxxxxxxxxxxto <maexxxxxxxxxxxxo@hawaii.rr.com>; Jan Wxxxxxxxxx <jaxxxxxxxxxx2002@yahoo.com>; jim yxxxxxxxxxx <yooxxxxxxxxxxxx@hawaii.rr.com>
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Amazing Art.............
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 14:52:23 -0700 (PDT)


Note: forwarded message attached.
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
Attached Message
From: Henry Mxxxxxxxx <hexxxxxxxxxxxxo@earthlink.net>
To: sxxxxxxxxxxxxx808@hawaii.rr.com; byxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxx.ang.af.mil; l_xxxxxxxxx@comcast.net; mxxxxxxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com; chxxxxx@aol.com; kinxxxxx@earthlink.net; hoxxxxxxxps@hawaii.rr.com; dxxxxxxxxo@yahoo.com; pxxxxxxh@yahoo.com; jodxxxxxxa@hihick.ang.af.mil; lyxxxxxx@hotmail.com; Laxxxxxxxxxs@holloman.af.mil; lxxxxxxxxxx7@hotmail.com; CARxxxxxxxxxx@hawaii.rr.com; txxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com
Subject: Fw: Amazing Art.............
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 13:52:31 -1000 (GMT-10:00)



-----Forwarded Message-----
From: cnxxxxxxn
Sent: Jun 22, 2007 2:17 PM
To: joell yxxxxx , lila xxxxx , "Herrera, Axxxxxx" , "Henry Mxxxxxx(E-mail)"
Subject: Fw: Amazing Art.............



Subject: Amazing Art.............
TURN ON YOUR SPEAKERS AND ENJOY.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIJtKxdRQzY



<<<<Bcc: FTW???

where's the sig?

I hate people who can't tell the difference between chain/forward hell headers and sigs.

I know the difference, why do you think I put "Bcc: FTW?" at the bottom? I thought this was a general thread about irritating emails, excuse me. I mistakenly posted in this world influencing thread and corrupted the entire thread, now how are the masses to learn to change their signatures?

I better forward this to a friend...

 

[lizardboy]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down
Do those legal disclaimers have any chance of standing up in court?

Not on their own, but they cannot hurt in the big scheme of things.

MotionMan

You don't have the "this is not a covered tax opinion...." language?

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down
Do those legal disclaimers have any chance of standing up in court?

Not on their own, but they cannot hurt in the big scheme of things.

MotionMan

I don't know they make the company look irresponsible and overly run by the legal department who by adding meaningless disclaimers must have their heads stuck up there asses.

Punctuate much?

Firstly, we are not run by the legal department, we ARE a legal department.

Secondly, like car alarms, e-mail disclaimers are geared towards the casual offender. I know that if I mistakenly get an e-mail from an attorney, I am to delete it. The Average Joe may not know, but when he sees that language, he may actually comply.

Thirdly, disclaimers are evidence that the e-mail was meant for a certain purpose, so, in court, disclaimers can help your cause.

MotionMan

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: Sunner
I just feel compelled to ask...
Do those legal disclaimers carry any weight whatsoever in the US or something?
They annoy the crap out of me, mostly because around here, they're worth absolutely jack.
If someone sends me a mail, it's perfectly within my legal rights to do whatever the hell I want with it, unless I actually bind myself by contract to following the legal mumbo jumbo.
Is it different across the pond?

If you mistakenly get an otherwise confidential e-mail, you are free to publish it online? What country do you live in? Do you have a cite to the law that allows you to do that?

MotionMan

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: lizardboy

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down
Do those legal disclaimers have any chance of standing up in court?

Not on their own, but they cannot hurt in the big scheme of things.

MotionMan

You don't have the "this is not a covered tax opinion...." language?

We do not do tax law so we do not see a reason to add that language.

MotionMan

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: Sunner
I just feel compelled to ask...
Do those legal disclaimers carry any weight whatsoever in the US or something?
They annoy the crap out of me, mostly because around here, they're worth absolutely jack.
If someone sends me a mail, it's perfectly within my legal rights to do whatever the hell I want with it, unless I actually bind myself by contract to following the legal mumbo jumbo.
Is it different across the pond?

If you mistakenly get an otherwise confidential e-mail, you are free to publish it online? What country do you live in? Do you have a cite to the law that allows you to do that?

MotionMan

I'm quite sure that publishing it verbatim without permission would land me in copyright law trouble, but that would go for a mail with a recipe for grandma's tasty cookies as well.
A legal notice at the bottom is worth jack though, since it's essentially an unsigned NDA, and I'm obviously not forced to agree to it unless I feel like it, so disclosing information in said mail would be fine.
Don't know about the US, but here("here" being Sweden in my case) a contract isn't valid unless it's agreed upon, and someone sending me a mail with a note at the bottom is a far cry from me agreeing to the "contract" in said note.
Of course, putting a note at the top of a mail saying something to the effect of "You are not allowed to read past this line unless you agree to xyz" might actually put it in a gray zone, I've never seen such a case tested, but it sounds reasonably similar to pressing the accept button on a software EULA.

I got lots of those at my previous job, since we worked a lot with banks and other financial institutions, and they love those notes.
Difference there being, we always had mutual NDA's signed to begin with, so while the "mini-NDA" in those mails were worthless, I'd be in deep crap anyway due to previously signed NDA's.

Besides, no matter where you live, they're just generally stupid for other reasons.
They always appear at the bottom of a message, right?
So what's to say you read the entire mail? Maybe you read halfway through it, saw something exciting that you felt the urge to share with the world, and didn't even bother reading the last half of the mail, much less the legal note.

 

[nweaver]

I add my sig only when required (I wish Outlook was as easy as Evolution for that). the disclaimer is in my sig, because the idiots who run our mail server can barely get it to deliver mail. Asking them to attach that to the bottom of outgoing emails would likely make their head explode. Maybe I should suggest it

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: skrilla
I don't think a disclaimer is ever appropriate... For example:

"If you have received it in error, please notify us immediately and destroy this e-mail and any attachments. In addition, you must not disclose, copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on this e-mail or any attachments."

Gimmie a break.

Sometimes the disclaimer isn't an option.

I need to attach this in my sig for a good portion of the emails I send at work ...

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the person or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential, the disclosure of which is governed by applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this information is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: Modular
Email addresses in Email sigs annoy me. I'm reading your email from my email, so why do I need to know your email address exactly?

My personal pop3 emails, I agree.
However, in some cases, It is somewhat handy to have in the sig ...

At work, we use lotus notes and the return addresses all look wierd .... name/locale/company not the typical name@domain.com

We work with several different vendors. If they try to email name/locale/company from outside of our network, then it will not work. So, in order to ensure that they have valid email contact information for us, we put it in our sig's.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: AdamDuritz99

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
28 lines is quite excessive, but 7 or 8 lines is often appropriate ... especially in a professional environment ....

Name
Department
Position
Email Address
Phone
Fax
Disclaimer (Thanks HIPAA)

Medical profession, huh? HIPAA sucks doesn't it!

Well, I work for a company that has lots of medical records
That said, I'm in IT ....

 

[Nik]

Yeah that sucks.

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[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: Sunner
I just feel compelled to ask...
Do those legal disclaimers carry any weight whatsoever in the US or something?
They annoy the crap out of me, mostly because around here, they're worth absolutely jack.
If someone sends me a mail, it's perfectly within my legal rights to do whatever the hell I want with it, unless I actually bind myself by contract to following the legal mumbo jumbo.
Is it different across the pond?

If you mistakenly get an otherwise confidential e-mail, you are free to publish it online? What country do you live in? Do you have a cite to the law that allows you to do that?

MotionMan

I'm quite sure that publishing it verbatim without permission would land me in copyright law trouble, but that would go for a mail with a recipe for grandma's tasty cookies as well.

Not necessarily, but, in any event, I am talking about confidential information, like attorney-client communications.

A legal notice at the bottom is worth jack though, since it's essentially an unsigned NDA, and I'm obviously not forced to agree to it unless I feel like it, so disclosing information in said mail would be fine.
Don't know about the US, but here("here" being Sweden in my case) a contract isn't valid unless it's agreed upon, and someone sending me a mail with a note at the bottom is a far cry from me agreeing to the "contract" in said note.

Except it is not contract law, so using contract analysis will not work.

Of course, putting a note at the top of a mail saying something to the effect of "You are not allowed to read past this line unless you agree to xyz" might actually put it in a gray zone, I've never seen such a case tested, but it sounds reasonably similar to pressing the accept button on a software EULA.

I got lots of those at my previous job, since we worked a lot with banks and other financial institutions, and they love those notes.
Difference there being, we always had mutual NDA's signed to begin with, so while the "mini-NDA" in those mails were worthless, I'd be in deep crap anyway due to previously signed NDA's.

Besides, no matter where you live, they're just generally stupid for other reasons.
They always appear at the bottom of a message, right?
So what's to say you read the entire mail? Maybe you read halfway through it, saw something exciting that you felt the urge to share with the world, and didn't even bother reading the last half of the mail, much less the legal note.

They are really there for the protection of the sender and most people do not expect them to be followed. CYA.

MotionMan

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down
Do those legal disclaimers have any chance of standing up in court?

Not on their own, but they cannot hurt in the big scheme of things.

MotionMan

I don't know they make the company look irresponsible and overly run by the legal department who by adding meaningless disclaimers must have their heads stuck up there asses.

Punctuate much?

Firstly, we are not run by the legal department, we ARE a legal department.

Secondly, like car alarms, e-mail disclaimers are geared towards the casual offender. I know that if I mistakenly get an e-mail from an attorney, I am to delete it. The Average Joe may not know, but when he sees that language, he may actually comply.

Thirdly, disclaimers are evidence that the e-mail was meant for a certain purpose, so, in court, disclaimers can help your cause.

MotionMan

You may fool a few people to delete it if it wasn't put on every single email. If you label what time your kids soccer game is as confidential information it makes the label meaningless.

i say fool because unless the person has signed an NDA they are free to disclose your confidential information. Because if they have the information then it is by definition not confidential. Anyone wishing to keep information confidential has a duty to protect that information not a 3rd party who receive it.

Marking of paper and information as confidential isn't intended to tell 3rd parties that information is confidential it is a reminder to the employee of that company.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down
Do those legal disclaimers have any chance of standing up in court?

Not on their own, but they cannot hurt in the big scheme of things.

MotionMan

I don't know they make the company look irresponsible and overly run by the legal department who by adding meaningless disclaimers must have their heads stuck up there asses.

Punctuate much?

Firstly, we are not run by the legal department, we ARE a legal department.

Secondly, like car alarms, e-mail disclaimers are geared towards the casual offender. I know that if I mistakenly get an e-mail from an attorney, I am to delete it. The Average Joe may not know, but when he sees that language, he may actually comply.

Thirdly, disclaimers are evidence that the e-mail was meant for a certain purpose, so, in court, disclaimers can help your cause.

MotionMan

You may fool a few people to delete it if it wasn't put on every single email. If you label what time your kids soccer game is as confidential information it makes the label meaningless.

i say fool because unless the person has signed an NDA they are free to disclose your confidential information. Because if they have the information then it is by definition not confidential. Anyone wishing to keep information confidential has a duty to protect that information not a 3rd party who receive it.

Marking of paper and information as confidential isn't intended to tell 3rd parties that information is confidential it is a reminder to the employee of that company.

If you receive confidential information by mistake, it does not lose its confidential nature and one can seek to enforce the confidentiality of mistakenly disclosed information.

If memory serves, if you mistakenly receive secret national security information, you can be prosecuted and go to FPYITAP for doing anything with it other than returning it and/or destroying it.

MotionMan

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: Sunner
I just feel compelled to ask...
Do those legal disclaimers carry any weight whatsoever in the US or something?
They annoy the crap out of me, mostly because around here, they're worth absolutely jack.
If someone sends me a mail, it's perfectly within my legal rights to do whatever the hell I want with it, unless I actually bind myself by contract to following the legal mumbo jumbo.
Is it different across the pond?

If you mistakenly get an otherwise confidential e-mail, you are free to publish it online? What country do you live in? Do you have a cite to the law that allows you to do that?

MotionMan

How about the US. Check the first amendment I think it has something in there about free speech. I think you would need to post a law that doesn't require that the company takes responsible efforts to keep it secret because once it lands in random mail boxes clear the company hasn't keep it secret.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: Sunner
I just feel compelled to ask...
Do those legal disclaimers carry any weight whatsoever in the US or something?
They annoy the crap out of me, mostly because around here, they're worth absolutely jack.
If someone sends me a mail, it's perfectly within my legal rights to do whatever the hell I want with it, unless I actually bind myself by contract to following the legal mumbo jumbo.
Is it different across the pond?

If you mistakenly get an otherwise confidential e-mail, you are free to publish it online? What country do you live in? Do you have a cite to the law that allows you to do that?

MotionMan

How about the US. Check the first amendment I think it has something in there about free speech. I think you would need to post a law that doesn't require that the company takes responsible efforts to keep it secret because once it lands in random mail boxes clear the company hasn't keep it secret.

If you receive confidential information by mistake, it does not lose its confidential nature and one can seek to enforce the confidentiality of mistakenly disclosed information.

If memory serves, if you mistakenly receive secret national security information, you can be prosecuted and go to FPYITAP for doing anything with it other than returning it and/or destroying it.

MotionMan

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down
Do those legal disclaimers have any chance of standing up in court?

Not on their own, but they cannot hurt in the big scheme of things.

MotionMan

I don't know they make the company look irresponsible and overly run by the legal department who by adding meaningless disclaimers must have their heads stuck up there asses.

Punctuate much?

Firstly, we are not run by the legal department, we ARE a legal department.

Secondly, like car alarms, e-mail disclaimers are geared towards the casual offender. I know that if I mistakenly get an e-mail from an attorney, I am to delete it. The Average Joe may not know, but when he sees that language, he may actually comply.

Thirdly, disclaimers are evidence that the e-mail was meant for a certain purpose, so, in court, disclaimers can help your cause.

MotionMan

You may fool a few people to delete it if it wasn't put on every single email. If you label what time your kids soccer game is as confidential information it makes the label meaningless.

i say fool because unless the person has signed an NDA they are free to disclose your confidential information. Because if they have the information then it is by definition not confidential. Anyone wishing to keep information confidential has a duty to protect that information not a 3rd party who receive it.

Marking of paper and information as confidential isn't intended to tell 3rd parties that information is confidential it is a reminder to the employee of that company.

If you receive confidential information by mistake, it does not lose its confidential nature and one can seek to enforce the confidentiality of mistakenly disclosed information.

If memory serves, if you mistakenly receive secret national security information, you can be prosecuted and go to FPYITAP for doing anything with it other than returning it and/or destroying it.

MotionMan

We are not talking about classified material. If you get that via email some one is going to FPYITAP. You can't even have classified material on a PC connected to the internet.

If I go through your dumpster and find information marked confidential and not shredded I can post that information online and the company can't do a thing. The company is required to take reasonable actions to ensure that the trade secret remains a secret and email it in clear text to random people falls short of that hurdle.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down
Do those legal disclaimers have any chance of standing up in court?

Not on their own, but they cannot hurt in the big scheme of things.

MotionMan

I don't know they make the company look irresponsible and overly run by the legal department who by adding meaningless disclaimers must have their heads stuck up there asses.

Punctuate much?

Firstly, we are not run by the legal department, we ARE a legal department.

Secondly, like car alarms, e-mail disclaimers are geared towards the casual offender. I know that if I mistakenly get an e-mail from an attorney, I am to delete it. The Average Joe may not know, but when he sees that language, he may actually comply.

Thirdly, disclaimers are evidence that the e-mail was meant for a certain purpose, so, in court, disclaimers can help your cause.

MotionMan

You may fool a few people to delete it if it wasn't put on every single email. If you label what time your kids soccer game is as confidential information it makes the label meaningless.

i say fool because unless the person has signed an NDA they are free to disclose your confidential information. Because if they have the information then it is by definition not confidential. Anyone wishing to keep information confidential has a duty to protect that information not a 3rd party who receive it.

Marking of paper and information as confidential isn't intended to tell 3rd parties that information is confidential it is a reminder to the employee of that company.

If you receive confidential information by mistake, it does not lose its confidential nature and one can seek to enforce the confidentiality of mistakenly disclosed information.

If memory serves, if you mistakenly receive secret national security information, you can be prosecuted and go to FPYITAP for doing anything with it other than returning it and/or destroying it.

MotionMan

We are not talking about classified material. If you get that via email some one is going to FPYITAP. You can't even have classified material on a PC connected to the internet.

If I go through your dumpster and find information marked confidential and not shredded I can post that information online and the company can't do a thing. The company is required to take reasonable actions to ensure that the trade secret remains a secret and email it in clear text to random people falls short of that hurdle.

Unless it ended up in the dumpster by mistake. The law is not so rigid that it does not allow for human error.

In any event, e-mailing confidential information is commonplace. If you mistakenly get e-mailed confidential information, it is still confidential.

MotionMan

 

[Nik]

When I worked for @Home before it went T.U., if somebody closed their account, the email address was also deleted so that someone else could register it and use it for themselves. When @Home went under, all the little subsidiary companies like AT&T, Comcast, MediaOne, Cox, etc., all took on the same policy. If it's not broke, don't fix it, right? Well some genious was using his Comcast address for work, sending confidential documents to / from his business partners. Well he didn't bother TELLING anyone to stop using that address when he closed his account. He ended up suing Comcast because someone else re-registered his old email address and started receiving confidential emails and attachments from the original guy's business partners.

I'm not sure what the current policy is, but Comcast quickly changed their policy. Email addresses were locked down on account closures and were not allowed to be re-registered.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down
Do those legal disclaimers have any chance of standing up in court?

Not on their own, but they cannot hurt in the big scheme of things.

MotionMan

I don't know they make the company look irresponsible and overly run by the legal department who by adding meaningless disclaimers must have their heads stuck up there asses.

Punctuate much?

Firstly, we are not run by the legal department, we ARE a legal department.

Secondly, like car alarms, e-mail disclaimers are geared towards the casual offender. I know that if I mistakenly get an e-mail from an attorney, I am to delete it. The Average Joe may not know, but when he sees that language, he may actually comply.

Thirdly, disclaimers are evidence that the e-mail was meant for a certain purpose, so, in court, disclaimers can help your cause.

MotionMan

You may fool a few people to delete it if it wasn't put on every single email. If you label what time your kids soccer game is as confidential information it makes the label meaningless.

i say fool because unless the person has signed an NDA they are free to disclose your confidential information. Because if they have the information then it is by definition not confidential. Anyone wishing to keep information confidential has a duty to protect that information not a 3rd party who receive it.

Marking of paper and information as confidential isn't intended to tell 3rd parties that information is confidential it is a reminder to the employee of that company.

If you receive confidential information by mistake, it does not lose its confidential nature and one can seek to enforce the confidentiality of mistakenly disclosed information.

If memory serves, if you mistakenly receive secret national security information, you can be prosecuted and go to FPYITAP for doing anything with it other than returning it and/or destroying it.

MotionMan

We are not talking about classified material. If you get that via email some one is going to FPYITAP. You can't even have classified material on a PC connected to the internet.

If I go through your dumpster and find information marked confidential and not shredded I can post that information online and the company can't do a thing. The company is required to take reasonable actions to ensure that the trade secret remains a secret and email it in clear text to random people falls short of that hurdle.

Unless it ended up in the dumpster by mistake. The law is not so rigid that it does not allow for human error.

In any event, e-mailing confidential information is commonplace. If you mistakenly get e-mailed confidential information, it is still confidential.

MotionMan

Good luck with that one in court.

I can just see the line of question

Did you know that your employees where sending trade secrets via email?

If they answer No, pull up the disclaimer.

Did you know that your employees could send trade secrets to the wrong person?

again if they answer no pull up their disclaimer.

Then ask, what procedure they have in place to protect emailed trade secrets.

When they answer nothing. You get to laugh at them for losing the trade secrets because they did as required by law "take reasonable measures to keep such information secret"

The law isn't rigid it just requires that the company wishing to protect has taken reasonable measures to keep such information secret. The company answer would be what? We knew trade secrets where ending up in the wrong hands so we added a disclaimer instead of requiring a password protected files be used?

 

[fire400]

Originally posted by: mugs
At my company, most people in engineering have NO signature and often don't even sign their name to their e-mails. But I sometimes get e-mails from people in other departments who use background images in e-mails. WTF?!

...what the heck? bg images, refer them to myspace.com

how about we make a website called yourspace.com?

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down
Do those legal disclaimers have any chance of standing up in court?

Not on their own, but they cannot hurt in the big scheme of things.

MotionMan

I don't know they make the company look irresponsible and overly run by the legal department who by adding meaningless disclaimers must have their heads stuck up there asses.

Punctuate much?

Firstly, we are not run by the legal department, we ARE a legal department.

Secondly, like car alarms, e-mail disclaimers are geared towards the casual offender. I know that if I mistakenly get an e-mail from an attorney, I am to delete it. The Average Joe may not know, but when he sees that language, he may actually comply.

Thirdly, disclaimers are evidence that the e-mail was meant for a certain purpose, so, in court, disclaimers can help your cause.

MotionMan

You may fool a few people to delete it if it wasn't put on every single email. If you label what time your kids soccer game is as confidential information it makes the label meaningless.

i say fool because unless the person has signed an NDA they are free to disclose your confidential information. Because if they have the information then it is by definition not confidential. Anyone wishing to keep information confidential has a duty to protect that information not a 3rd party who receive it.

Marking of paper and information as confidential isn't intended to tell 3rd parties that information is confidential it is a reminder to the employee of that company.

If you receive confidential information by mistake, it does not lose its confidential nature and one can seek to enforce the confidentiality of mistakenly disclosed information.

If memory serves, if you mistakenly receive secret national security information, you can be prosecuted and go to FPYITAP for doing anything with it other than returning it and/or destroying it.

MotionMan

We are not talking about classified material. If you get that via email some one is going to FPYITAP. You can't even have classified material on a PC connected to the internet.

If I go through your dumpster and find information marked confidential and not shredded I can post that information online and the company can't do a thing. The company is required to take reasonable actions to ensure that the trade secret remains a secret and email it in clear text to random people falls short of that hurdle.

Unless it ended up in the dumpster by mistake. The law is not so rigid that it does not allow for human error.

In any event, e-mailing confidential information is commonplace. If you mistakenly get e-mailed confidential information, it is still confidential.

MotionMan

Good luck with that one in court.

I can just see the line of question

Did you know that your employees where sending trade secrets via email?

If they answer No, pull up the disclaimer.

Did you know that your employees could send trade secrets to the wrong person?

again if they answer no pull up their disclaimer.

Then ask, what procedure they have in place to protect emailed trade secrets.

When they answer nothing. You get to laugh at them for losing the trade secrets because they did as required by law "take reasonable measures to keep such information secret"

The law isn't rigid it just requires that the company wishing to protect has taken reasonable measures to keep such information secret. The company answer would be what? We knew trade secrets where ending up in the wrong hands so we added a disclaimer instead of requiring a password protected files be used?

Trade secrets are confidential, but not all confidential information is a trade secret. Your scenario MAY be correct in regards to trade secrets (I do not know for sure since I do not handle trade secret cases), but is not correct in regards to all confidential information.

For example, I (and my entire industry) send confidential information via snail mail all the time:

"Did you know that your employees where sending confidential information via snail mail?

Yes.

Did you know that the post office sometimes delivers mail to the wrong person?

Yes.

What procedure do you have in place to protect snail-mailed confidential information.

Hmmmmmm."


So, is the confidential information we send by mail lose its confidentiality if it ends up in the wrong mailbox? I think not.

MotionMan

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: smack Down
Do those legal disclaimers have any chance of standing up in court?

Not on their own, but they cannot hurt in the big scheme of things.

MotionMan

I don't know they make the company look irresponsible and overly run by the legal department who by adding meaningless disclaimers must have their heads stuck up there asses.

Punctuate much?

Firstly, we are not run by the legal department, we ARE a legal department.

Secondly, like car alarms, e-mail disclaimers are geared towards the casual offender. I know that if I mistakenly get an e-mail from an attorney, I am to delete it. The Average Joe may not know, but when he sees that language, he may actually comply.

Thirdly, disclaimers are evidence that the e-mail was meant for a certain purpose, so, in court, disclaimers can help your cause.

MotionMan

You may fool a few people to delete it if it wasn't put on every single email. If you label what time your kids soccer game is as confidential information it makes the label meaningless.

i say fool because unless the person has signed an NDA they are free to disclose your confidential information. Because if they have the information then it is by definition not confidential. Anyone wishing to keep information confidential has a duty to protect that information not a 3rd party who receive it.

Marking of paper and information as confidential isn't intended to tell 3rd parties that information is confidential it is a reminder to the employee of that company.

If you receive confidential information by mistake, it does not lose its confidential nature and one can seek to enforce the confidentiality of mistakenly disclosed information.

If memory serves, if you mistakenly receive secret national security information, you can be prosecuted and go to FPYITAP for doing anything with it other than returning it and/or destroying it.

MotionMan

We are not talking about classified material. If you get that via email some one is going to FPYITAP. You can't even have classified material on a PC connected to the internet.

If I go through your dumpster and find information marked confidential and not shredded I can post that information online and the company can't do a thing. The company is required to take reasonable actions to ensure that the trade secret remains a secret and email it in clear text to random people falls short of that hurdle.

Unless it ended up in the dumpster by mistake. The law is not so rigid that it does not allow for human error.

In any event, e-mailing confidential information is commonplace. If you mistakenly get e-mailed confidential information, it is still confidential.

MotionMan

Good luck with that one in court.

I can just see the line of question

Did you know that your employees where sending trade secrets via email?

If they answer No, pull up the disclaimer.

Did you know that your employees could send trade secrets to the wrong person?

again if they answer no pull up their disclaimer.

Then ask, what procedure they have in place to protect emailed trade secrets.

When they answer nothing. You get to laugh at them for losing the trade secrets because they did as required by law "take reasonable measures to keep such information secret"

The law isn't rigid it just requires that the company wishing to protect has taken reasonable measures to keep such information secret. The company answer would be what? We knew trade secrets where ending up in the wrong hands so we added a disclaimer instead of requiring a password protected files be used?

Trade secrets are confidential, but not all confidential information is a trade secret. Your scenario MAY be correct in regards to trade secrets (I do not know for sure since I do not handle trade secret cases), but is not correct in regards to all confidential information.

For example, I (and my entire industry) send confidential information via snail mail all the time:

"Did you know that your employees where sending confidential information via snail mail?

Yes.

Did you know that the post office sometimes delivers mail to the wrong person?

Yes.

What procedure do you have in place to protect snail-mailed confidential information.

Hmmmmmm."


So, is the confidential information we send by mail lose its confidentiality if it ends up in the wrong mailbox? I think not.

MotionMan

I think but I'm not sure the only time it is illegal for a 3rd party to publish confidential information is when it is a trade secret.

And yes your confidential information could lose it protection depending on how it ends up in the wrong mail box. If you accidentally mail it to everyone in your address box then you are not going to be able to sue to keep it secret. If it ends up in the wrong mail box because the post office screwed up you might have a case.