I hate Steam.

[geoffry]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Originally posted by: NeoV

Steam is a fantastic product - in my experience, the people who complain the most about Steam are people that download game copies and don't want to pay for purchasing games.

That paragraph is the exact opposite of me. I pay for all commercial games and I?m proud to support the industry. That?s why I don?t like it when DRM pisses on my rights, DRM like Steam.

Why are you constantly downloading games on STeam?

I?m not, I?m talking about the initial installation. One recent example was where I had finished Fear 2 but another guy still hadn?t finished downloading it through Steam.

Yes, some of you might be lucky and find it ?only? takes 20-30 times longer to download than a disc install, but others with slower connections can be waiting for days.

I have only bought a few games through steam but there is usually a pre-load involved, so you can download it before the release and then you are cocked, locked and ready to rock on release day and don't even need to go to a store, which would make steam faster.

But for games without a pre-load, or games where you don't have the data files stored on your hard drive a DVD would indeed be quite a bit faster, even with a good interweb connection...STALKER clear sky took me about 50 minutes to get, whereas if I had the DVD it would have been 5ish plus maybe 20 minutes going to the store.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Jack Flash

Originally posted by: BFG10K

That paragraph is the exact opposite of me. I pay for all commercial games and I?m proud to support the industry. That?s why I don?t like it when DRM pisses on my rights, DRM like Steam.

You agree to their TOS when you buy a game from Steam. What 'rights' are you referring to?

The right to resell products you own. The problem is, with Steam you are technically leasing rather than purchasing the game, so you pay full price or close to full price for something you don't own.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: Golgatha

Originally posted by: NeoV
Steam is a fantastic product - in my experience, the people who complain the most about Steam are people that download game copies and don't want to pay for purchasing games.

Why are you constantly downloading games on STeam? You can backup games a number of different ways so you can re-install games from disk/CD/DVD instead of re-downloading them.

As for auto-patching the games - why is that possibly a bad thing?

Steam has some good qualities, but to beat a dead horse, its major limitation is that you cannot resell your games once you're done with them. I and many others purchase our games. We also don't appreciate the assumption we're involved in piracy just because we have a legitimate gripe with Steam.

As for auto-patching...I don't like being a beta tester thank you very much. Sometimes patches break previously saved games as well (Stalker comes to mind immediately). However, I believe you can disable auto-updates on a per-game basis, but IMO this should be the default setting (or perhaps a download but don't install until I give you permission setting like Windows Update has).

I agree.

@Daverino, apoppin is right to warn you: it's highly unlikely that Steam will fold, but Steam users have no legally binding guarantee from the company ensuring access to their games in the event that this should ever happen.

Well for me I would probably lose the CD\DVD or the physical media would cease to work anyways by the time Steam "might" ever go under. I have had too many game discs that look perfectly fine stop working. Company of Heroes finally put me over the edge. The discs were not damaged in anyway but a file was somehow corrupted on the install discs. I vowed to never buy a game that doesnt come on Steam. The only game I buy that doesnt come on steam is wow.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: apoppin
for now

good luck

just remember you are warned

it is a crap DRM platform for me and i do not support them

You rather have rootkits that break cd verification eh?

No, just a simple disck check with no Securom, or DRM that is removed after the game has been in the market for a few months.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Yes, some of you might be lucky and find it ?only? takes 20-30 times longer to download than a disc install, but others with slower connections can be waiting for days.

Isn't that why they sell disc versions? If you have a slow internet, buy the disc version.

Anyway, Steam offers a lot of utility for me. I like the ingame chat program. That way I don't have to use crossfire. I also like how I can play my games on anyone's computer. It makes changing computers much easier.

That said, I usually only buy Valve games from Steam.

Buy the disk version of Silent Hill Homecoming. It requires registration through Steam; however, the box makes no mention of this or the need for an Internet connection.

 

[KeithTalent]

I have no problems with it, aside from a few times when it craps out and I can't play my multiplayer games, but that can happen to any game. I've certainly never had a problem, as far as I can recall, with download speeds. I am usually around ~900kbps.

Having the integrated friends and chat systems is great as well.

KT

 

[thujone]

yeah i remember hearing everyone talk smack about steam back in the golden CS days. i steered clear of it mostly due to the fact that i had no money to spend on games at the time anyway.


but i came back for TF2 and i'm genuinely impressed with steam. i still can't understand what everyone is so up in arms about.

if anything the only complaint i have is that games on steam should be like... $5 cheaper or something since you're not getting the packaging. but i feel like the weekend deals more than balance this out.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: apoppin
for now

good luck

just remember you are warned

it is a crap DRM platform for me and i do not support them

You rather have rootkits that break cd verification eh?

No, just a simple disck check with no Securom, or DRM that is removed after the game has been in the market for a few months.

Yeah that would be nice wouldnt it?

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
I?m not, I?m talking about the initial installation. One recent example was where I had finished Fear 2 but another guy still hadn?t finished downloading it through Steam.

Yes, some of you might be lucky and find it ?only? takes 20-30 times longer to download than a disc install, but others with slower connections can be waiting for days.

The only way I can explain this is that I buy games before I plan to play them. For instance, I'll purchase braid on a Weds, then go back to playing TF2 and maybe not play braid until Friday. Or I'll buy a game before I go to bed, go to sleep, go to work, come home and I've got it. So in that respect, it is much easier than installing a game to me, because I didn't personally have to babysit the install, that's the massive difference that gets overlooked in these time comparisons. And if we include installing from CD, we also have to include the time spent acquiring that CD.

 

[2dt Drifter]

Steam does pretty well for me. when i built my new machine I just hit install on all my steam games, let it run over night. Didn't have to insert disks, enter pin numbers etc. they were all ready by morning. My brother is on a shitty connection due to him living in the sticks and he does the same thing. works well. You just got used to living in the age of "If i want it now I should get it now" Buy the disks.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: thujone
but i came back for TF2 and i'm genuinely impressed with steam. i still can't understand what everyone is so up in arms about.

What you have to remember is most aren't up in arms about Steam anymore. But we do have a few crazies here on AT.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: thujone
but i came back for TF2 and i'm genuinely impressed with steam. i still can't understand what everyone is so up in arms about.

What you have to remember is most aren't up in arms about Steam anymore. But we do have a few crazies here on AT.

I'm not "up in arms", I just think it could be improved.

 

[thujone]

yeah... i used to post in the p&n section for a while a few years ago. i've seen the crazies lol

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Yes, some of you might be lucky and find it ?only? takes 20-30 times longer to download than a disc install, but others with slower connections can be waiting for days.

Isn't that why they sell disc versions? If you have a slow internet, buy the disc version.

Anyway, Steam offers a lot of utility for me. I like the ingame chat program. That way I don't have to use crossfire. I also like how I can play my games on anyone's computer. It makes changing computers much easier.

That said, I usually only buy Valve games from Steam.

Buy the disk version of Silent Hill Homecoming. It requires registration through Steam; however, the box makes no mention of this or the need for an Internet connection.

They should definitely mention it, but that doesn't prove my point wrong. You don't need to wait a long time to download it or anything. It isn't like registering takes long, even if you have a slow internet connection.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Yes, some of you might be lucky and find it ?only? takes 20-30 times longer to download than a disc install, but others with slower connections can be waiting for days.

Isn't that why they sell disc versions? If you have a slow internet, buy the disc version.

Anyway, Steam offers a lot of utility for me. I like the ingame chat program. That way I don't have to use crossfire. I also like how I can play my games on anyone's computer. It makes changing computers much easier.

That said, I usually only buy Valve games from Steam.

Buy the disk version of Silent Hill Homecoming. It requires registration through Steam; however, the box makes no mention of this or the need for an Internet connection.

They should definitely mention it, but that doesn't prove my point wrong. You don't need to wait a long time to download it or anything. It isn't like registering takes long, even if you have a slow internet connection.

No, I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. EULA's need to be improved and the contract between Valve and its clients needs to be clarified: I would like to see a legally binding commitment to provide access to all purchased (leased) games in the unlikely event that the company goes under.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
No, I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. EULA's need to be improved and the contract between Valve and its clients needs to be clarified: I would like to see a legally binding commitment to provide access to all purchased (leased) games in the unlikely event that the company goes under.

Valve has said before that they would, but something more concrete like you mentioned would be nice.

 

[Sam25]

Originally posted by: Whitecloak

Originally posted by: Sam25

Ouch. What's your connection's max downstream?

Umm...it's a 1mbps unlimited connection and I pay around $55 for it every month. There is another option available of a 16mbps connection but it's got a 8gb download limit.

airtel?

Yup, Airtel. It's one of the best there is in India.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Discuss.

What? The fact that your internet sucks.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: apoppin
for now

good luck

just remember you are warned

it is a crap DRM platform for me and i do not support them

You rather have rootkits that break cd verification eh?

i never had that happen

i kept all my games away from my virtual drives on a separate partition - when that was an issue
- i haven't seen that problem in quite awhile

if i were like the sheep, i would gladly give ALL my rights to a company who promises much but fails to deliver .. who checks that i have an Internet connection EACH TIME i log on and WILL LOCK you out of your account - with the burden of proof on YOU - if there is a glitch

that is the most restrictive DRM *possible*

they just cover shit with candy

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: thujone
yeah i remember hearing everyone talk smack about steam back in the golden CS days. i steered clear of it mostly due to the fact that i had no money to spend on games at the time anyway.


but i came back for TF2 and i'm genuinely impressed with steam. i still can't understand what everyone is so up in arms about.

if anything the only complaint i have is that games on steam should be like... $5 cheaper or something since you're not getting the packaging. but i feel like the weekend deals more than balance this out.

I personally feel the 50% off weekend deals should be the regular price since you're not purchasing a physical product, and you can't resell the game. I'd be all about Steam if there was a way to transfer ownership of the games associated with your Steam account. For the most part, I actually do like the autopatching, friends lists, etc. I even like the DRM implementation if they would allow for resell, as I enjoy the free weekends to try before I buy on games. As it stands now, if there is a choice between a Steam and non-Steam version of a game, I will always go with the non-Steam alternative.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: apoppin
for now

good luck

just remember you are warned

it is a crap DRM platform for me and i do not support them

You rather have rootkits that break cd verification eh?

i never had that happen

i kept all my games away from my virtual drives on a separate partition - when that was an issue
- i haven't seen that problem in quite awhile

if i were like the sheep, i would gladly give ALL my rights to a company who promises much but fails to deliver .. who checks that i have an Internet connection EACH TIME i log on and WILL LOCK you out of your account - with the burden of proof on YOU - if there is a glitch

that is the most restrictive DRM *possible*

they just cover shit with candy

Steam changes the traditional sense of a software license.
Normally you would think one copy means one person can play as they want at any point.
Steam means (if you go with the easy option) you effectively have a license for a single user which can be used by that one person and only with one game concurrently.

Imagine if you bought a copy of Vista and a copy of XP, and they got tied to an account, and you could either use Vista or XP at any one time, even if you had 2 computers you could only use one OS on one computer, and if you tried to run the other OS on the other computer, you get kicked out. People would be completely outraged.

 

[Dumac]

Everyone brings up reselling games, but do people really resell their computer games? I never do, and I would never buy a used computer game. I don't know anyone who would buy one either...

 

[CountZero]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: apoppin
for now

good luck

just remember you are warned

it is a crap DRM platform for me and i do not support them

You rather have rootkits that break cd verification eh?

i never had that happen

i kept all my games away from my virtual drives on a separate partition - when that was an issue
- i haven't seen that problem in quite awhile

if i were like the sheep, i would gladly give ALL my rights to a company who promises much but fails to deliver .. who checks that i have an Internet connection EACH TIME i log on and WILL LOCK you out of your account - with the burden of proof on YOU - if there is a glitch

that is the most restrictive DRM *possible*

they just cover shit with candy

Steam changes the traditional sense of a software license.
Normally you would think one copy means one person can play as they want at any point.
Steam means (if you go with the easy option) you effectively have a license for a single user which can be used by that one person and only with one game concurrently.

Imagine if you bought a copy of Vista and a copy of XP, and they got tied to an account, and you could either use Vista or XP at any one time, even if you had 2 computers you could only use one OS on one computer, and if you tried to run the other OS on the other computer, you get kicked out. People would be completely outraged.

An OS is a weird example. The license style is more like development tools where you are buying a single seat for any of the games tied to that account. You can run them from anywhere but once that account is using the single seat no one else gets in. It'd be interesting if Valve offered some type of family plan with only one copy of any one game playable and X number of seats also usable concurrently with access to the same pool of games.

I don't disagree with the hate towards the Steam DRM but at the end of the day trying to have a DRM free gaming seems to be pointless and you just have to pick what DRM you can live with and whether that DRM offers any benefit. Steam does offer some benefit which is obviously enough of a trade off for some folks.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
Steam changes the traditional sense of a software license.
Normally you would think one copy means one person can play as they want at any point.
Steam means (if you go with the easy option) you effectively have a license for a single user which can be used by that one person and only with one game concurrently.

Imagine if you bought a copy of Vista and a copy of XP, and they got tied to an account, and you could either use Vista or XP at any one time, even if you had 2 computers you could only use one OS on one computer, and if you tried to run the other OS on the other computer, you get kicked out. People would be completely outraged.

A copy of Vista/XP that you could log into anywhere in the world. I think that would be worth the price.

And when you take your situation w/ Steam, do you not see any problems with the other side of that equation?

 

[NoWhereM]

Originally posted by: Dumac
Everyone brings up reselling games, but do people really resell their computer games? I never do, and I would never buy a used computer game. I don't know anyone who would buy one either...

I don't sell my computer games as a rule, but I buy used computer games all the time. Between two thirds and three quarters of all my computer games were purchased used.