I have a problem with the ONE or psst physicists, in here pls

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disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
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Z15CAM

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Nov 20, 2010
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Other than some discussion that the Higg's Theory isn't entirely incompatible with the idea of micro black holes, I've seen no such evidence.
Perhaps the Higg's Field is basically a Mico Black Hole as the Boson does give Mass to Matter, hence Gravity, where specific particles with virtually no Mass wastes "No Time in Space" traveling through the field and can travel faster then the speed of light. Consider these as quantum grey particles bordering Mass and Energy.

Actually it's NOT the Photon but the Neutrino that has been observed traveling faster then the speed of light.

A Photon is a hypothesized mass-less radiation energy particle that can not travel through Matter as proposed in Einstein's Quantum Theory and yet to be positively identified other then we know Neutrino's exist and have been observed to travel through matter at speeds faster then the speed of light.

The Higg's Theory is the only thing we have to explain such a phenomena and with the resent discovery and identification of the Higg's Boson, the theory appears to have merit.

I see Einstein's Quantum Theory proposing a Photon to explain his Model but no matter (LOL) how close he was, Photons don't Exist in my book: other then, the Photon concept just may be incident of birthing Neutrinos within the Higg's Field or any other particle that is given mass subject to E=Mc2.

A Higg's Field Generator just may be the concept behind building a Neutron Warp Engine for space travel.
 
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disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
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So basically what you're saying, Z15CAM, is that you reject our reality and substitute your own. You are certainly well within your rights to do that.
 

Z15CAM

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So basically what you're saying, Z15CAM, is that you reject our reality and substitute your own. You are certainly well within your rights to do that.

LOL - It's not all mine - Suggest you do some research.
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
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So you substitute yours and someone elses. Got it.

I research all the time. I even understand it.

Every once and a while, I even come up with my own ideas. I make sure they make sense and don't conflict with known facts though.
 
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Z15CAM

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Nov 20, 2010
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I like your prospective but it never hurts to express your optimism and accept criticism as it's the door to learning with an open mind - By the way I did 3 years majoring University Particle Physics, Math and Digital Fundamentals - I never used it professionally - It's a Strange World ;o)

I was then and still am an addicted reader.

PS: Here's something you could consider: The Definition of a Photon is: A particle representing a quantum of light or other electromagnetic radiation. A photon carries energy proportional to the radiation frequency but has zero rest mass.

Yet we see this Green Radiation to look back in time but it's missing something Very Big.

Outside of Einstein's Quantum Model the existence of a Photon has never been identified.

So I argue the Einstein's Photon Hypothesis is an Incident where Matter is given Mass with in the Higgs Field and that's why we see Matter but there is the possibility, for unknown reasons, NOT all Matter is given Mass and we can't see it which may explain "Dark Matter" and why the Mass of the Universe does not add up. Perhaps not all particles of matter pass through the Higgs Field or has a negative anomaly that repels it - May be there's a negative Higgs Field - Who Knows.

The Higgs Field may just be the Key to understanding Space and Time especially when we see a Particle such as a Neutrino traveling through Matter Faster then the Speed of Light. We can not see a Particle that does not have Mass - Where does that leave E=Mc2 when it comes to Dark Matter that is calculated to be 80% of the mass missing in the universe. Then we question the possibility: "Is there Life there"

There is a lot more to the eye then what we perceive to be Empty Space and why Particles with Mass seems oblivious to Matter that does not have Mass and the Higgs Field along with the Neutrino is currently paving the way. What is the purpose of all these Neutrino Labs build deep with in the Earths Crust or CERN driving Neutrinos through the Core all about if it were not for the collaboration between Scientists and Gov'ts seeking the secrets of the universe and wanting to see the Face of God.

To me God with his Universe is vane because he created conscious life to have us admire his work over our mortality. What other purpose would there be for the Universe if it were not for Conscious Life. Guess that's where Religion and Faith comes in but I've never turned over a leaf embedded with the words "Made by God".

Your absolutely right to assume I don't fit the Model but if it were not for Physicists like me, what incentive will drive you into the future. In order to save his life, Galileo had to resend his hypothesis that the Earth revolved around the Sun when judged by Religious Doctrine.

I gotta quit this rant as I can go on and on. Just do what your doing and I'm sure you will be contently rewarded participating in the Cosmic Soup Recipe - Hopefully, I'm still a player at 65 and wish you many years ahead with the best of luck ;o)
 
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Biftheunderstudy

Senior member
Aug 15, 2006
375
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"In physics, a virtual particle is a transient fluctuation that exhibits many of the characteristics of an ordinary particle, but that exists for a limited time." -- wikipedia

Where does that say "short amount of time"?

Also, re-read the quote (again from wikipedia) that I posted earlier about whether or not we should even think of virtual particles as being "real" in the first place.
 

Z15CAM

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Biftheunderstudy: That's ancient doctrine - Prior to 1964 and not recognized until spring of this year when the Higgs Boson Particle was seen and identified. Basically a Particle that gave Matter Mass which we can see or can't see (Dark Matter - Big Question).

The Photon Particle has never been isolated or identified other then I speculate it's an energy incident when a particle obtains mass with in the Higgs Field ( + or - that is Matter we see or Dark matter we can't see) and what we conceive as Green Radioactivity (Based on Einsteins Hypothetical Photon Particle) tracing back to the Big Bang which only accounts for 20% of the mass of the Universe - Man there another 80% of mass just filling of what we consider to be Empty Space - In other words, NOTHING - But it's full of matter without mass that is the question and concept eliminating time and how we perceive time.

That's why I believe the are Billions of Higgs Fields all around us generating Micro Black Holes that determine what particles have mass and those that don't. That's what we see and why we look at the universe and see one another the way we do.

Just because we can't see it doesn't mean Space is Empty.

Yes Particles like the Neutrino can travel faster then the Speed of Light through Matter without transforming into energy as per E=Mc2 as it passes through the Higgs Field instantaneously (Time is Stopped) without accumulating mass and that's what we see beyond matter "Dark Matter".

You must take what I'm say with a grain of salt but many Physicists do believe this concept and with the positive identification of the Higgs Boson this spring of 2013 does support the theory and Man could conceivably build a Neutron Warp Engine for Space Travel some day.

What's the principle of a Neutron Warp Engine - Think Quasar and the Boson Particle creating Neutrons from matter radiating into space as a propellant contained with in a Higg's Field where time stands still. Don't ask me what your going to use for fuel within the Field but it will probably boil down to containment of Neutrino Particles - LOL
 
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Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
7,852
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Z15CAM - there is no proof of nutrinos traveling faster than light - just an FYI.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
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Ok I still need to further clarify my question because no one seems to understand what I'm asking.

Most of you are re-iterating that the speed of light is the maximum. I realize that and that is not what is in dispute.

Let's say you have 2 electrons separated by 1 trillion miles of empty space. Presumably the action between the two is mediated by virtual photons that travel at the speed of light and no faster.

How did the virtual photons travel 1 trillion miles at the speed of light if they only hang around for infinitesimally small periods of time?

There is not enough time to travel such a large distance since the speed of light is their maximum speed and they only exist for a short period of time.

They would have to exist for longer periods of time to travel that far at the speed of light and if they existed for long periods of time we would be able to detect them.

I believe I have a solution but I'd like further discussion and an understanding of what I'm asking before I post my possible solution to this problem.

Thanks for the discussion so far you guys are great to bounce ideas off of.

The problem is that you are trying to make virtual photons real. You are thinking of them as a photon going from one electron to another through space-time just like normal. Where they are more a way to help see and think about the interactions.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
106
Biftheunderstudy: That's ancient doctrine - Prior to 1964 and not recognized until spring of this year when the Higgs Boson Particle was seen and identified. Basically a Particle that gave Matter Mass which we can see or can't see (Dark Matter - Big Question).

The Photon Particle has never been isolated or identified other then I speculate it's an energy incident when a particle obtains mass with in the Higgs Field ( + or - that is Matter we see or Dark matter we can't see) and what we conceive as Green Radioactivity (Based on Einsteins Hypothetical Photon Particle) tracing back to the Big Bang which only accounts for 20% of the mass of the Universe - Man there another 80% of mass just filling of what we consider to be Empty Space - In other words, NOTHING - But it's full of matter without mass that is the question and concept eliminating time and how we perceive time.

That's why I believe the are Billions of Higgs Fields all around us generating Micro Black Holes that determine what particles have mass and those that don't. That's what we see and why we look at the universe and see one another the way we do.

Just because we can't see it doesn't mean Space is Empty.

Yes Particles like the Neutrino can travel faster then the Speed of Light through Matter without transforming into energy as per E=Mc2 as it passes through the Higgs Field instantaneously (Time is Stopped) without accumulating mass and that's what we see beyond matter "Dark Matter".

You must take what I'm say with a grain of salt but many Physicists do believe this concept and with the positive identification of the Higgs Boson this spring of 2013 does support the theory and Man could conceivably build a Neutron Warp Engine for Space Travel some day.

What's the principle of a Neutron Warp Engine - Think Quasar and the Boson Particle creating Neutrons from matter radiating into space as a propellant contained with in a Higg's Field where time stands still. Don't ask me what your going to use for fuel within the Field but it will probably boil down to containment of Neutrino Particles - LOL

I am sorry but this post and the previous ones simply show you have no understanding of basic physics. Neutrinos do not travel faster than light. E=MC^2 is simply a mass energy relation, nothing to do with speed.
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
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The problem is that you are trying to make virtual photons real. You are thinking of them as a photon going from one electron to another through space-time just like normal. Where they are more a way to help see and think about the interactions.

True - the virtual photons, or any virtual bosons, are really just a way to understand the quantum interactions - the newer amplituhedron seems to be a better way to explain quantum interactions:
https://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/20130917-a-jewel-at-the-heart-of-quantum-physics/
 

SecurityTheatre

Senior member
Aug 14, 2011
672
0
0
Actually it's NOT the Photon but the Neutrino that has been observed traveling faster then the speed of light.

I think you need to do some more reading, since this is patently false.

There was ONE experiment a few years ago that showed an anomaly where a neutrino appeared to travel approximately a few km/s faster than the speed of light.

It was later identified to be a faulty clock in an oscillator circuit and subsequent measurements by labs around the world have shown that neutrinos do, indeed, only travel at c, not above.

Some of the rest of your posts seem like just spouting random terminology in complex sentences and hoping it makes sense, which it doesn't.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
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Virtual photon => Higg's Boson???


How do we travel faster then light?
Isn't the speed of light is theoretical to begin with?

Also isnt it said that time slows down as u get closer to the speed of light, hence u can never make it to the speed of light cuz time stops.
(its like a dog chasing its tail... The closer the dog gets to his tail, the further it gets away at the same time. )

I dont know... im kinda lost in what the topic of this question is... but yet it seems interesting... :X

Wasnt there Quantium teleportation as well... where its just zap'd from location 1 to 2 instantaneously?
 
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Z15CAM

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Nov 20, 2010
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CERN Experiment Indicates Faster-Than-Light Neutrinosthe Oscillation Project with Emulsion-tRacking Apparatus, or OPERA, which "was developed to study the phenomenon of neutrino transmutation (neutrinos changing from one type to another). The speed of the neutrinos was an entirely unexpected observation."

John Cramer talked about the idea back in 1992
If neutrinos are tachyons, this could account for a couple of odd things about them - the exceptionally low cross section (likelihood of interaction) and their oscillating between different flavors (electron, muon, tau). Exactly how is a job for the theoreticians, but it seems to me that a neutral particle moving effectively backward in time and at unlimited velocities coupled with low energies is not often going to interact, and imaginary mass could be likened to a rotation or oscillation, much like many other things involving imaginary numbers in physics.

Whatever with these observations and the existence of God Particle makes for a very interesting time in Particle Physics that questions the Standard Model - enough so to spark one's imagination.
 
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Paul98

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Jan 31, 2010
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CERN Experiment Indicates Faster-Than-Light Neutrinosthe Oscillation Project with Emulsion-tRacking Apparatus, or OPERA, which "was developed to study the phenomenon of neutrino transmutation (neutrinos changing from one type to another). The speed of the neutrinos was an entirely unexpected observation."

As already stated in this thread this was an error

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/8/3072393/speed-of-light-neutrino-mistake-cern

Whatever with these observations and the existence of God Particle makes for a very interesting time in Particle Physics that questions the Standard Model - enough so to spark one's imagination.

And no, what would have been interesting is if it didn't look like the higgs boson didn't exist. The higgs field is part of the standard model, it was predicted and expected.

You seem to want to learn about this stuff, but you don't know anything right now. You might want to start with relativity till you truly understand it.
 

Z15CAM

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You seem to want to learn about this stuff, but you don't know anything right now. You might want to start with relativity till you truly understand it.

I could say the same thing back to you - All I'm doing is responding OP's question as to why these anomalies crop up and provide reference which you plainly don't other then saying no one but you truly understand relatively.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
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I could say the same thing back to you - All I'm doing is responding OP's question as to why these anomalies crop up and provide reference which you plainly don't other then saying no one but you truly understand relatively.

How does that work, I already know what I am talking about. You can ask me questions if you would like to learn about questions or thoughts you might have. Your responses have shown that you don't understand what you are talking about, that's fine but please stop trying to pretend you do.
 

Z15CAM

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Nov 20, 2010
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Paul, in spite of your Quantum knowledge, you have no imagination and are wasting my Time.

What is TIME but for the dismantling and release of energy brought about by collisions of matter where 20% of the parent`s mass is lost. It`s about inversely proportional to the 21 Grams of body mass we loose the instant we die. Einsteins Genius Theory on Relativity provides us with a Model but doesn't take into the account for 80% of the rest. It is plausible that the answer of what we are looking for lies in what Einstein left out and what we take for granted: "LIFE".

Here's a couple good sites if one is interested in Particle Physics - Suggest you brush up your Calculus, Abstract Algebra and Electron-Chemistry. For me Imagination is what drives Particle Physics because we are virtually clueless but it doesn't mean something simple will not prevent us from Exploring Space and Time.

http://arxiv.org/

http://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=65
 
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SecurityTheatre

Senior member
Aug 14, 2011
672
0
0
Paul, in spite of your Quantum knowledge, you have no imagination and are wasting my Time.

What is TIME but for the dismantling and release of energy brought about by collisions of matter where 20% of the parent`s mass is lost. It`s about inversely proportional to the 21 Grams of body mass we loose the instant we die. Einsteins Genius Theory on Relativity provides us with a Model but doesn't take into the account for 80% of the rest. It is plausible that the answer of what we are looking for lies in what Einstein left out and what we take for granted: "LIFE".

Here's a couple good sites if one is interested in Particle Physics - Suggest you brush up your Calculus, Abstract Algebra and Electron-Chemistry. For me Imagination is what drives Particle Physics because we are virtually clueless but it doesn't mean something simple will not prevent us from Exploring Space and Time.

http://arxiv.org/

http://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=65

Conspiracy theory and a few good links doesn't substitute for awareness and understanding.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
106
Paul, in spite of your Quantum knowledge, you have no imagination and are wasting my Time.

What is TIME but for the dismantling and release of energy brought about by collisions of matter where 20% of the parent`s mass is lost. It`s about inversely proportional to the 21 Grams of body mass we loose the instant we die. Einsteins Genius Theory on Relativity provides us with a Model but doesn't take into the account for 80% of the rest. It is plausible that the answer of what we are looking for lies in what Einstein left out and what we take for granted: "LIFE".

Here's a couple good sites if one is interested in Particle Physics - Suggest you brush up your Calculus, Abstract Algebra and Electron-Chemistry. For me Imagination is what drives Particle Physics because we are virtually clueless but it doesn't mean something simple will not prevent us from Exploring Space and Time.

http://arxiv.org/

http://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=65

I am guessing you don't start many threads on physicsforums since if you tried to post what you have posted here your thread would be locked.

I am sorry you are trying to sound smart, but if you had any knowledge about what you were talking about you would know you are talking nonsense. and I have no need to brush up on math as I already know it well. I do post on physicsforums quite a bit to help people and occasionally ask a question and keep up with any new information.

Would you be willing to answer a few simple questions to help me know what knowledge you do have?
 

SecurityTheatre

Senior member
Aug 14, 2011
672
0
0
I am guessing you don't start many threads on physicsforums since if you tried to post what you have posted here your thread would be locked.

I am sorry you are trying to sound smart, but if you had any knowledge about what you were talking about you would know you are talking nonsense. and I have no need to brush up on math as I already know it well. I do post on physicsforums quite a bit to help people and occasionally ask a question and keep up with any new information.

Would you be willing to answer a few simple questions to help me know what knowledge you do have?

Agree. I am not an expert, by any stretch, but much of what was said in Z15's previous posts was just words with no substance.

For example, he claimed that the confirmation of the Higgs raised questions about the standard model and made a couple of wild leaps about what this might imply.

HOWEVER, it's easy enough to recognize that the Higgs is quite the opposite and it represents the cornerstone of the modern observations of the standard model and was predicted to exist by that very model decades ago. The fact that it was actually where it was predicted to be was an astounding confirmation of the standard model, in at least as much as its predictive power.
 
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sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
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Photons do not exist. They are mathematical constructs and are rather poorly understood. (Such is the case for all particles.) I cannot explain in "real" terms what all these different mathematical construct particles are, since I am still learning. But I can tell you what a photon is, in "real" terms. It is a transitory modulated wave traveling between two resonating spherical standing waves. See fig 1.4.2 on this page: http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-einstein-quantum-physics.htm
 

SecurityTheatre

Senior member
Aug 14, 2011
672
0
0
Photons do not exist. They are mathematical constructs and are rather poorly understood. (Such is the case for all particles.) I cannot explain in "real" terms what all these different mathematical construct particles are, since I am still learning. But I can tell you what a photon is, in "real" terms. It is a transitory modulated wave traveling between two resonating spherical standing waves. See fig 1.4.2 on this page: http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-einstein-quantum-physics.htm

What is this paper?

You speak with some degree of certainty here... but the header of this paper advocates "Simply unite Science (Occam's Razor / Simplicity) with Metaphysics (Dynamic Unity of Reality)".

It goes off on some long-winded histories of physicists and then seems to claim they're mostly quacks.

There are few (actually, zero) citations and he basically claims that modern quantum theory regarding photons is inaccurate and relies on "because it seems obvious" as proof.

:whiste:


I'm not saying you're absolutely wrong by every measure, but claims that fly in the face of accepted science do require SOME level of citation and mathematical evidence.
 
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