I have this feeling that since users can't buy Fury/X, they're buying 390/X

[railven]

Could you explain how that hurt them? The miners still bought those cards. They were sold, so I fail to see how they lost sales because miners bought them. Is it possible they could have sold more? Sure, but that was up to them to supply more. A sale is a sale.

The only thing miners affected, was the number of gamers who bought them. The number that was sold was only helped by miners.

Not sure if this was covered (skimmed thread) but miners hurt AMD pretty badly in my opinion.

1) inflation of the value of cards. This essentially made the cards viable only for miners, of which AMD saw no cut of the inflated price (at times almost 100% mark up by vendors). So gamers who did want to buy an AMD card weren't going to touch them at those prices. This created negative perception among buyers (lots of times I had to tell people buying at the time to avoid AMD, the cost was too inflated - I even avoided AMD. The inflated prices last for months, which leads into #3).

2) the cooler issue wasn't addressed for almost 3 months. Cards launched in Oct, we didn't see custom coolers until after CES in January. That's 3 months for the negative "loud and hot" to spread, tie that into the outrages prices, it was hard to even look at AMD cards during those periods.

3) bit mining bubble burst and now cards were going for UNBELIEVABLY cheap prices on the second hand market. This cannibalized new sales which still had inflated prices.

There were a lot of things working against the 290/290X series. It wasn't well into like Q3 2014 when prices started to stabilize and actually fall on retail parts, I mean look at this article from May:
http://anandtech.com/show/8001/sapphire-r9-290x-vaporx-8gb-hits-retail-uk-only-600

That's a $850 290X Vapor-X with 8GBs of RAM. And then just 5 months later:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8601/amd-radeon-r9-290-series-prices-finally-begin-to-fall

290X were now <$400.

For almost a year it was near impossible to recommend an AMD card. The gouging hit the whole family:
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...urrency-mining-could-kill-amds-gaming-efforts

Even the R9 270 cards are selling for 30-40% over MSRP, while the R9 280X &#8212; a GPU that&#8217;s supposed to cost $300 &#8212; is actually selling for $489. We can zoom in on one particular card thanks to website price-tracker CamelEgg, and see the greater problem.

But it always seem people forget that. "for years the 290 blah blah better deal than nvidia blah blah" no, it wasn't until last quarter of 2014 when the gouging ceased to stop. And because of the used market the value of the cards essentially cratered over night.

 

[Ma_Deuce]

Fury X is probably going to win in the noise department every time, and will win 100% of the time in the temperature department. But there are some 980 TI cards that are not discernibly louder.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GTX_980_Ti_SC_Plus/29.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_Fury_X/30.html

980 TI's 35 db vs. Fury X's 32 db. Inside a case that will be very, very difficult to discern a difference.

And at $680 + free AAA game http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 50001402 600565061 vs, Fury X at $680 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 600566292 getting the EVGA SC+ which is already 10% faster than a stock 980 TI, which makes it > 20% faster at 1440p, it's a pretty easy decision for me if I were in the market for a $680 video card.

Those are open air coolers though. All the heat getting exhausted inside my case is getting less appealing every day.

The card is only $30 more, but no AIO cooler. AIO is easily worth $30 to me. I also take into consideration that I would have to go with a gsync display instead of a freesync display. That's another $100-$125 added to the price.

The price of getting an AIO cooled 980ti and a gsync display, just isn't worth the extra $$$ that I would have to spend right now. It's no where near as cut and dry as some people are trying to make it seem on here.

 

[railven]

Those are open air coolers though. All the heat getting exhausted inside my case is getting less appealing every day.

The card is only $30 more, but no AIO cooler. AIO is easily worth $30 to me. I also take into consideration that I would have to go with a gsync display instead of a freesync display. That's another $100-$125 added to the price.

The price of getting an AIO cooled 980ti and a gsync display, just isn't worth the extra $$$ that I would have to spend right now. It's no where near as cut and dry as some people are trying to make it seem on here.

But that's all your preference and is optional to others. Therefore, it doesn't have to be disclosed in all situations.

For example, I'm going to water cool my GTX 980 Ti and it's basically free to me. I got a spare H60 lying around that I got at Best Buy during a clearance ($30!!!), and the HG10 N980 (if it ever freaking releases) is only $40, but I got $50 in Corsair Gift Cards from previous purchases. But that's my specific scenario which doesn't apply to everyone

As for G-Sync vs FreeSync, that is a pickle, and thankfully one not on my plate (currently).

 

[tential]

Fury X is probably going to win in the noise department every time, and will win 100% of the time in the temperature department. But there are some 980 TI cards that are not discernibly louder.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GTX_980_Ti_SC_Plus/29.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_Fury_X/30.html

980 TI's 35 db vs. Fury X's 32 db. Inside a case that will be very, very difficult to discern a difference.

And at $680 + free AAA game http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 50001402 600565061 vs, Fury X at $680 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 600566292 getting the EVGA SC+ which is already 10% faster than a stock 980 TI, which makes it > 20% faster at 1440p, it's a pretty easy decision for me if I were in the market for a $680 video card.

All the same arguments for amd before, are arguments people are ignoring now. We're ignoring the games nvidia offers, ignoring the hdmi 2.0, ignoring dsr which is unhindered, ignoring oc, ignoring perf/watt ignoring max oc potential, ignoring non-reference coolers just so we can say fury x is worth it? Seriously?

But hey, if you only purchase amd great but I don't and the gtx 980ti walks all over the fury x in so may departments it's ridiculous. I got my 7950 due to price and the free games. I'll pick up a gtx 980ti maybe due to price /perf/4k down sampling(and beyond!).

Fury x struggles in value vs aib fury even lol. I don't think driver updates will save amd this time around but I could be wrong. Either way, I'm not buying a 650 card in hopes amd improves. If I'm spending that money, it's on nvidia so that I get a product that properly works out of the gate.

 

[Ma_Deuce]

But that's all your preference and is optional to others. Therefore, it doesn't have to be disclosed in all situations.

For example, I'm going to water cool my GTX 980 Ti and it's basically free to me. I got a spare H60 lying around that I got at Best Buy during a clearance ($30!!!), and the HG10 N980 (if it ever freaking releases) is only $40, but I got $50 in Corsair Gift Cards from previous purchases. But that's my specific scenario which doesn't apply to everyone

As for G-Sync vs FreeSync, that is a pickle, and thankfully one not on my plate (currently).

Your specific scenario applies to stuff you have laying around, mine applies to someone that is just looking to buy new equipment. The context was buying new video cards. Not Potent Potables or What Does Railven Have Under His Desk.

 

[railven]

Your specific scenario applies to stuff you have laying around, mine applies to someone that is just looking to buy new equipment. The context was buying new video cards. Not Potent Potables or What Does Railven Have Under His Desk.

Your scenario is contingent on specific metrics being met, not really someone just trying to buy new equipment.

I'm just glad what I have under my desk gives me more flexibility , else I'd be stuck with a Fury X and taking compromises

 

[Ma_Deuce]

All the same arguments for amd before, are arguments people are ignoring now. We're ignoring the games nvidia offers, ignoring the hdmi 2.0, ignoring dsr which is unhindered, ignoring oc, ignoring perf/watt ignoring max oc potential, ignoring non-reference coolers just so we can say fury x is worth it? Seriously?

Ignoring? Picking the equipment with the features that suits you best isn't about ignoring anything. It's nothing new and it's nothing bad in any way. If you have ever bought anything, I would hope that you purchase based on what fits you best, and not just how big the list is on the back of the box...

 

[Ma_Deuce]

Your scenario is contingent on specific metrics being met, not really someone just trying to buy new equipment.

I'm just glad what I have under my desk gives me more flexibility , else I'd be stuck with a Fury X and taking compromises

You don't want to compromise on your Fury X issues, I don't want to compromise on the extra $$$ and the extra heat inside my case and the extra noise from a 980 ti.

When Nvidia can get the price of an AIO 980 ti down, it would be a completely different ball game.

 

[railven]

You don't want to compromise on your Fury X issues, I don't want to compromise on the extra $$$ and the extra heat inside my case and the extra noise from a 980 ti.

When Nvidia can get the price of an AIO 980 ti down, it would be a completely different ball game.

Exactly, and we're back to my other post - different scenarios for different people

Nice little circle we went in. :awe:

 

[tential]

Exactly, and we're back to my other post - different scenarios for different people

Nice little circle we went in. :awe:

Except the number of people willing to give up the massive list of 980ti benefits for watecooling is few and far between.

I'm a person who laughed at 980ti owners who couldn't wait for fury x. That watecooling had me. Everything else about the card was lackluster.

 

[Ma_Deuce]

Except the number of people willing to give up the massive list of 980ti benefits for watecooling is few and far between.

I'm a person who laughed at 980ti owners who couldn't wait for fury x. That watecooling had me. Everything else about the card was lackluster.

The worst part about the performance is that it's already liquid cooled. There aren't going to be any big performance gains for the Fury X just by making it run cooler.

Hopefully they catch up on stock before too long. It would be nice to see the price come down a touch.

 

[Azix]

Exactly, and we're back to my other post - different scenarios for different people

Nice little circle we went in. :awe:

At least you can admit FURY X suits some people even if you dont like it.

Except the number of people willing to give up the massive list of 980ti benefits for watecooling is few and far between.

I'm a person who laughed at 980ti owners who couldn't wait for fury x. That watecooling had me. Everything else about the card was lackluster.

What massive list of benefits? The only benefit is that its currently faster with OC and has 6GB VRAM (if that really has proven to be an advantage, seems FURY is doing well at high res)

 

[n0x1ous]

When Nvidia can get the price of an AIO 980 ti down, it would be a completely different ball game.

Can? - Yes, Will? -No, Need? - No

guys guys,,,just get both and then nothing to miss out on /s

 

[tential]

Gtx 980ti wins over fury x in:
Hdmi
Performance
Perf/watt
Vram
Power consumption
Dsr (vsr isn't as flexible or as full featured)
Over clocking performance
Over clocking tools

And that's just what I can remember.

Edit: noxious with the obvious answer of why not both lololol.
Fury x is a quiet card with enough performance which I like. I just would take a 980ti over it just like I would have taken a 290 over the other cards out at those times. Being quiet is worthwhile up to a point, then I want performance....

 

[tential]

The worst part about the performance is that it's already liquid cooled. There aren't going to be any big performance gains for the Fury X just by making it run cooler.

Hopefully they catch up on stock before too long. It would be nice to see the price come down a touch.

Even at $600 I'll get a fury x. AIO cooler, silent, I mean my rig oced gets loud as hell for the Witcher 2 (ya ya I am slow whatever.). I push my games to max settings and oc my card to get those high res downsampled gaming. But it's loud fury x is so freaking beautiful of a card. It's just the software that isn't up to par, which is exactly why I predicted before launch that fury x software would leave enough to be desired to push people to a 980ti. If I was in a rush I'd already purchase but I'll play through some other games that aren't pretty while I wait.

 

[2is]

am I the only one?

That makes no sense. If someone wants a high end card and is spending $650, why would they look at anything other than a 980Ti if they wanted but could not get Fury X?

 

[Ma_Deuce]

That makes no sense. If someone wants a high end card and is spending $650, why would they look at anything other than a 980Ti if they wanted but could not get Fury X?

$650 might at the upper limit of what someone wants to spend, or even just past what they want to spend. Or even past what they CAN spend.

I think that value for dollars over $500 for a GPU starts to diminish very quickly. It makes perfect sense that if you can't find what you want in the top tier to look below and see if the price makes it more worth it. 390 or 390X still has plenty of performance on the table if you don't want to spend the big bucks right now or can't find what you want in stock.

 

[n0x1ous]

$650 might at the upper limit of what someone wants to spend, or even just past what they want to spend. Or even past what they CAN spend.

I think that value for dollars over $500 for a GPU starts to diminish very quickly. It makes perfect sense that if you can't find what you want in the top tier to look below and see if the price makes it more worth it. 390 or 390X still has plenty of performance on the table if you don't want to spend the big bucks right now or can't find what you want in stock.

Value is not a huge concern for buyers in this price category. Most high end buyers, if they won't wait for Fury X (which the stock has improved recently, plenty of models available at multiple vendors), will buy 980ti.

 

[3DVagabond]

I already explained why the 290x/290 struggled numerous times. It's hard to gain market share among your target audience when a new market develops and comes in, exploits your products then leaves. The 290x was too high priced at launch plain and simple.

No point arguing though, you wot take a far faster 980ti for 20 more dollars than a fury x. Amd fans have such a everyone is against us mentality to even pick the best product currently out lol.....

The market has spoken as I thought it would. Fury x is a dud launch that was below expectations. But hey, let's bash nvidia because they're nvidia even when their products are actually well priced this gen compared to amds new 300 and fury series.

Edit: you forget the value of time. While fury x owners hope for their card to be worth the value gtx 980ti owners are loving it.
Lol at paying 650 for the fury x giving it's laundry list of pitfalls vs a product with the same thing price.

The perception of hot and loud and slower isn't because of the mining craze. It's because of how the cards were represented in reviews.

I'm not going to bother rewriting everything else.

 

[Ma_Deuce]

Value is not a huge concern for buyers in this price category. Most high end buyers, if they won't wait for Fury X (which the stock has improved recently, plenty of models available at multiple vendors), will buy 980ti.

What price category? $649 and up? $500 and up?

I can't claim that I know most high end buyers, I'm sure there are a lot out there. From several comments on this forum though, there are quite a few people that would change from a NO to a GO by just lowering the price of the FuryX by <10%. Not because it's all they are willing to spend, but because they see a lot more value in it at that price.

The same could be said for a 390x, 390, 980ti & 980. There are some that drop the $$$ on a new titan every time around, but I think that they are the outliers and not the norm. I would think that most buyers, even in the high end are buying what they think is a good value in one way or another.

 

[Ma_Deuce]

The perception of hot and loud and slower isn't because of the mining craze. It's because of how the cards were represented in reviews.

I'm not going to bother rewriting everything else.

I got suckered into the hot/loud 290x scare from a lot of the reviews out there. The hot/loud was the deciding factor in why I bought my 780 instead of a 290x.

I like my 780, but it wasn't the best choice looking back on it. I didn't realize the bias of a lot of the review sites at the time. Once bitten...

 

[Azix]

Gtx 980ti wins over fury x in:
Hdmi
Performance
Perf/watt
Vram
Power consumption
Dsr (vsr isn't as flexible or as full featured)
Over clocking performance
Over clocking tools

And that's just what I can remember.

Edit: noxious with the obvious answer of why not both lololol.
Fury x is a quiet card with enough performance which I like. I just would take a 980ti over it just like I would have taken a 290 over the other cards out at those times. Being quiet is worthwhile up to a point, then I want performance....

Overclocking and performance don't need separate listings since the difference between the the fury x and ti needs overclocking to matter. Tools are already part of that

Fury x has better vram

Toms showed fury x using less power.

Hdmi 2.0 countered with more up-to-date and relevant dp standard..

Vsr looks better according to you

It really is amazing how far the 780 has fallen. The 780ti is still hanging in there somewhat

 

[Eymar]

I can't claim that I know most high end buyers, I'm sure there are a lot out there. From several comments on this forum though, there are quite a few people that would change from a NO to a GO by just lowering the price of the FuryX by <10%. Not because it's all they are willing to spend, but because they see a lot more value in it at that price.

For me, I was in the market for both new monitor and videocard. Even though Fury X doesn't have hdmi 2.0 the available Freesync monitors just have more flexibility with regards to inputs (for connecting laptops, multiple pcs). The lack of hdmi 2.0 was a major negative at first, but now there are 4k monitors with DP and freesync that negative isn't a concern for me as I'd rather have VRR with 4k. Also with Freesync\G-Sync don't really need top end performance (ie. framerates above 100fps) as long as minimums are within playable levels and average FPS are above 70-80 fps.

 

[n0x1ous]

there are quite a few people that would change from a NO to a GO by just lowering the price of the FuryX by <10%

I guess I don't get that mindset. I mean once you are spending $600 whats another $50?

Maybe we should get a poll going on this to see whos right. I still think most Fury X buyers who didnt wait or were unimpressed with reviews went 980ti.

 

[tential]

I guess I don't get that mindset. I mean once you are spending $600 whats another $50?

Maybe we should get a poll going on this to see whos right. I still think most Fury X buyers who didnt wait or were unimpressed with reviews went 980ti.

I'm an outlier case because I don't game as much as most people on here. That $50 is a big deal for fury x because is right next to the 980ti. If fury x is close to 100 cheaper compared to a 980ti I can consider it. Otherwise, I'll just get a 980ti.

If you mean like if the 980ti was 650 vs 700? Meh, wouldn't matter I'd still think it's a good value. Fury x at the same price as a 980ti? That's my issue, I don't see value in the fury x paying the same price as the 980ti.

Ill just yet the best card out aka 980ti then. Fury x at $600 being silent, I'll take that then. I won't pay the same for fury x as I do for a 980ti.

Fury may be more viable for me if it's below 550 vs too close to a fury x which it is right now.

The reason I want these cards is down sampling and I only save money I barely spend on anything so I might as well invest in my hobby.