I just can't squat

[brikis98]

Eh.....he could learn 85% of the deadlift using wraps, and then work on the grip after. I'm all for anything that gets someone deadlifting sooner rather than later

It's not like the choice is "deadlift with straps" versus "don't deadlift at all." You can deadlift without straps, albeit it at a lighter weight, and work your way up. If you are dilligent with it, grip strength can be developed pretty quickly, and it shouldn't "hold you back" much at all. On the other hand, lifting with straps most likely will hold back your grip strength, which is unfortunate, as a good grip is tremendously useful in the real world.

 

[MrMatt]

Deadlifting and running. I can't DL for shit because I have shitty grip. I can't run because I've got a ton of mass and these short legs.

wait, what kind of grip are you using?

 

[Pantlegz]

wait, what kind of grip are you using?

It doesn't matter really, mixed grip I can get more weight maybe 50lbs but it's really not enough to work my legs much and still less than my squat. However at the moment my DL max(with straps) is higher than my squat max but thats just because I haven't maxed squats since the squat comp a while back. For my weekly exercise my DL is about 50lbs behind my squat.

 

[Pantlegz]

It's not like the choice is "deadlift with straps" versus "don't deadlift at all." You can deadlift without straps, albeit it at a lighter weight, and work your way up. If you are dilligent with it, grip strength can be developed pretty quickly, and it shouldn't "hold you back" much at all. On the other hand, lifting with straps most likely will hold back your grip strength, which is unfortunate, as a good grip is tremendously useful in the real world.

I don't know maybe my grip muscles are broken because I've been stuck at about 315 for a while, I can add more weight but my grip always fails.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Hmmmm what're your favorite hip stretches?

This for glutes, except with my crossed leg on a table/chair so I can really pull into it.

This for hip flexors (back leg) and glutes (front leg).

This - a simple butterfly stretch - for the adductors.

Something like this for hamstrings.

You can use all of these movements for PNF stretches. There's also an internal rotation stretch that I like to use, but I'll have to explain that in detail a bit later. What I'll do is I'll come here and explain PNF stretching, how it works, and how it can help you get much more flexible.

 

[brikis98]

I don't know maybe my grip muscles are broken because I've been stuck at about 315 for a while, I can add more weight but my grip always fails.

I doubt there is anything wrong with your grip muscles. Grip needs to be trained through progressive overload just like everything else. It sounds like you are using double overhand grip for all your work sets and are stuck at 315, so here is one approach that should help:

* Next deadlift day, do 295x5 using double overhand. Then, switch to mixed grip and do 325x5 (or whatever reasonable set of 5 you can do with this grip).
* Next time deadlift comes up, try 300x5 double overhand and 330x5 mixed grip
* Then 305x5 and 335x5
* Etc

The key is to work your grip as much as you can and gradually increasing the difficulty every workout. If you can't finish all 5 reps in a workout, redo the same weight for the next workout or two. If still stuck, deload 10-15% and work your way up again. You can also add in some accessory grip work on non deadlift days. For example, static bar holds (unrack a heavy weight and just hold it as long as you can), farmers walks, weighted pull-ups, and rope climbs would all help. Simply trying 315 over and over again and doing nothing else for your grip will not.

 

[Xcobra]

The squat doesn't look too bad, although it would be nice to have a 3/4 view as well (esp. to see what your knees are doing). The two things I can see that need some work:

1. Your back doesn't stay as tight as it could at the bottom of the squat. I've certainly seen worse, but if your back is already hurting (which is NOT normal), then that's what you need to work on. You should be keeping your back locked in full extension. To see what this feels like, do a set of 10-15 supermans and then do some light squats right after. The tightness/tension you feel in your back while doing supermans is exactly what you want to feel while doing squats.

2. Don't squat in flip flops. Go barefoot, wear chuck taylors or get some weightlifting shoes, but don't lift in squishy/unstable flip flops.

Here you go. Hope the angle helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNhh8UjCvXM

 

[brikis98]

Here you go. Hope the angle helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNhh8UjCvXM

Heh, sorry, I should have specified 3/4 angle from the front so I can get a better look at the knees.

Anyways, although I'm glad you lost the flip flops for this video, the other comment still applies: just as you hit the bottom of the squat, your hips roll under and pull your back out of extension. It's not terribly excessive, but if you have back pain from squats, my guess is that this is the cause. This could be a flexibility issue (tight hamstrings/glutes), but more likely, it's caused by lack of kinesthetic awareness and poor technique. The former is helped by doing supermans to learn what the back feels like in full extension and the latter is helped by following the advice in this article and this video.

 

[Terzo]

You really should fix the bolded statement. It's absolutely insane to be any kind of athlete and not stretch. Stretching allows you to strengthen proper ranges of motion and reduces your likelihood of injury. Weight lifters, especially for squatting, need to stretch the hips. Stretching is more effective than foam rolling per time invested so I'd suggest putting in some time there. Potential downsides of tight muscles include increased risk of capsule damage and connective tissue damage, leading to premature arthritis and other problems. Ten to fifteen minutes of stretching can fix that.

Going to do a mini hijack here, but how much stretching, and what actual stretches, do you recommend? I was under the impression that bodyweight or light weight repetitions of the exercise you're doing would suffice. For example, when I squat I start out doing 2x5 with the bar, then 1x3 with 25lbs on each side, then 1x2 with 45lbs on each side, then 1x1 with 70 lbs on each side. After that I move on to the 3x5. Are you saying I should be doing actual stretches in addition to that? If so, do I do them before my workout, afterwards, or both?

 

[MrMatt]

This for glutes, except with my crossed leg on a table/chair so I can really pull into it.

This for hip flexors (back leg) and glutes (front leg).

This - a simple butterfly stretch - for the adductors.

Something like this for hamstrings.

You can use all of these movements for PNF stretches. There's also an internal rotation stretch that I like to use, but I'll have to explain that in detail a bit later. What I'll do is I'll come here and explain PNF stretching, how it works, and how it can help you get much more flexible.

I dunno why but I always seem to hurt myself doing stretches lol. More than I've ever hurt myself doing exercises. Guess I'll try a few of these. Not really sure how long to do them for, etc.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Those stretches will help you get to a proper squat, and then the squat will be all the stretching you need really. Other than a few things to warm up before the squat.

 

[brikis98]

I dunno why but I always seem to hurt myself doing stretches lol. More than I've ever hurt myself doing exercises. Guess I'll try a few of these. Not really sure how long to do them for, etc.

If you are injuring yourself while stretching, you're pushing too far. Stretch to the point of slight discomfort but not actual pain. Also, only do static/PNF stretches when you are thoroughly warmed up, such as at the end of a workout. Stretching before a workout when your muscles are cold is counterproductive (static stretching actually makes you slightly weaker) and increases risk of injury (warm muscles are more flexible).

As for how long, a good rule of thumb is ~30 seconds. Focus on your problem areas and ease into it.

 

[brikis98]

Going to do a mini hijack here, but how much stretching, and what actual stretches, do you recommend? I was under the impression that bodyweight or light weight repetitions of the exercise you're doing would suffice. For example, when I squat I start out doing 2x5 with the bar, then 1x3 with 25lbs on each side, then 1x2 with 45lbs on each side, then 1x1 with 70 lbs on each side. After that I move on to the 3x5. Are you saying I should be doing actual stretches in addition to that? If so, do I do them before my workout, afterwards, or both?

Before a workout, the goal is to warm-up your muscles to get them ready to work. To accomplish this, some light cardio (running, rowing, jump rope), light bodyweight exercises (push-ups, pull-ups, air squats), lighter sets of the actual exercise you'll be doing (lighter squat sets as you wrote), and dynamic stretches (windmills, leg swings, high knees, butt kicks) are useful. My typical warm-up is 500m of rowing, windmills, leg swings, air squats, push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups, and supermans. If I'm doing heavy lifting, I'll also do a series of barbell exercises using a broom stick, including back squats, front squats, overhead squats, good mornings, overhead press, push jerk, cleans & snatches.

After the workout, when your muscles are nice and warm, is the best time to work on increasing your flexibility/mobility. The best tools for this are static & PNF stretches. Exactly which ones you should do depends on where you need work.

Having said all that, working with proper form on barbell exercises is, in and of itself, a very effective stretch. If you want to improve your squat flexibility, put some weight on the bar and squat. If you maintain proper form as much as possible within your range of mobility - post a form check video if you are unsure - then having the weight on your back will gradually stretch you out until you can do the full ROM. In fact, as is pointed out in the active hip article I linked to earlier, in the squat, most people are limited by bad technique rather than flexibility, so just practicing the technique over and over again (with light to moderate weight) is a very worthwhile activity.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Going to do a mini hijack here, but how much stretching, and what actual stretches, do you recommend? I was under the impression that bodyweight or light weight repetitions of the exercise you're doing would suffice. For example, when I squat I start out doing 2x5 with the bar, then 1x3 with 25lbs on each side, then 1x2 with 45lbs on each side, then 1x1 with 70 lbs on each side. After that I move on to the 3x5. Are you saying I should be doing actual stretches in addition to that? If so, do I do them before my workout, afterwards, or both?

You can stretch everyday, if you're stretching at the right intensity. It shouldn't HURT, it should be uncomfortable to a certain degree, but only at like a 4-5/10 on the stretching discomfort scale. Yes, you should be doing additional stretching directly after the workout or after the workout at some point in the day. I used to not stretch as much as I do now and I was always tight and having trouble getting into the hole while I squatted. Nowadays, I warm up and I have no problems. I continually stretch to make sure I maintain that ROM and strength through it. I'll detail how long and what stretches to do in a post after this.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I dunno why but I always seem to hurt myself doing stretches lol. More than I've ever hurt myself doing exercises. Guess I'll try a few of these. Not really sure how long to do them for, etc.

You need to start easy. Stretching isn't something you can just start doing at max intensity. You've got to warm up a bit (even a 2-3min walk will help) first. You can utilize any of the exercises I posted and they will improve your hip flexibility quite a bit. I'll also try to detail another stretch that will stretch for internal rotation, allowing for the knee to track better over the foot.

I believe it's the ACSM that suggest doing stretches for 30s, resting, and then repeating. Thirty seconds isn't a sufficient amount of time to stretch the connective tissue though. Gymnasts will stretch constantly for 5-7min. That's a bit too long. For me, I tend to stretch and do some PNF stretching for around 2min. Let me detail PNF stretching for you.

First, I'll have to explain some muscle physiology. In the muscle, there are sensory bodies called muscle spindles within the muscle. They are made up of muscle as well, but they have a lot of neuronal input going back to your spinal cord. They send information about the muscle's length or, if a muscle is in dynamic movement, it's change in length. For example, the knee-tap test where the doctor hits your knee and your lower leg extends utilizes muscle spindles. When your muscle lengthens from an outside force (whether it's active or inactive), your body uses these muscle spindles to protect the joints. The information from the spindles goes to the spinal cord and the body contracts the muscle more to prevent damage like hyperextension.

These muscle spindles are also very active while stretching. You are using an outside for (someone else, gravity, leverage) to stretch the muscle. Because of this, the muscle spindles fire like crazy and you don't get much out of your stretch. However, you can overcome this through PNF stretching.

PNF (proprioceptive neuromuscular faciliation) stretching tricks the muscle spindles into firing less. Typically for PNF stretching, you will do a certain stretch regularly for about 15-20s. From there, you will try to fight the stretch by contracting whatever muscle you're strengthening relatively hard against the torque of the stretch for 7-10s. For example, if someone is stretching your hamstring while you're laying down, after 15-20s, you will try to extend your hips (or push back at them with a straight leg). What this does is it makes the muscle spindles fire a lot less. Because of that, there's a lot less tension in your muscle and getting a greater ROM is much, easier. Typically, I'll do the contracting part 4-5 times and then be done stretching that muscle group. You have to be a bit careful with these stretches because they do allow you to approach your true ROM as defined by your connective tissue and not your sensory organs.

Here's Kelly Starrett's, CrossFit's token doctor of physical therapy, explanation of it. If you're new to it, don't push as hard as he implies. As you get more experience and you see how it affects your flexibility, you can push harder. Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spRQ6fCy-_Y.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Those stretches will help you get to a proper squat, and then the squat will be all the stretching you need really. Other than a few things to warm up before the squat.

Not true. If you don't do static stretches, you will tend to lose that ROM to some degree. You never, never do these stretches before a workout since it reduces the structural integrity of connective tissue temporarily under weighted stress. Sure, you stretch and you get your squat down. However, there's always things you can stretch to make your squat better. I've never met someone who didn't need to stretch internal/external rotation of the hips more to improve their squat. Stretching is part of a healthy overall lifestyle. This isn't just about squatting, but it's about being able to do dynamic movements with a sufficient ROM. It prevents injury while you're playing sports or just doing everyday things.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Not true. If you don't do static stretches, you will tend to lose that ROM to some degree. You never, never do these stretches before a workout since it reduces the structural integrity of connective tissue temporarily under weighted stress. Sure, you stretch and you get your squat down. However, there's always things you can stretch to make your squat better. I've never met someone who didn't need to stretch internal/external rotation of the hips more to improve their squat. Stretching is part of a healthy overall lifestyle. This isn't just about squatting, but it's about being able to do dynamic movements with a sufficient ROM. It prevents injury while you're playing sports or just doing everyday things.

Rippetoe clearly states in Starting Strength that full range of motion compound exercise will provide you all the stretching you need.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Rippetoe clearly states in Starting Strength that full range of motion compound exercise will provide you all the stretching you need.

If your only goal is to squat a lot, then sure, you'll be fine. However, if you're doing a lot of assorted movements via sports or CrossFit, you need to continually stretch so you can accommodate for new, dynamic movements. Also, just as an aside: just because Rippetoe says it doesn't make it fact in all situations. Most people think they have a full ROM squat when in actuality, they have poor external rotation, which hinders that range of motion.

 

[brikis98]

Rippetoe clearly states in Starting Strength that full range of motion compound exercise will provide you all the stretching you need.

I don't have the book in front of me, but I don't think you are quoting him correctly. I believe what he says is more along the lines of :

* If flexibility is not hindering your technique, then the full ROM barbell exercises in the book provide all the stretching you need to safely do those exercises.
* Most people are limited by technique, not flexibility, on exercises like the squat, so stretching won't necessarily help.
* Despite that, the book still includes several static stretches for those cases where flexibility is a limiting factor, such as the squat stretch for the adductors and some wrist stretches for the rack in the power clean. The idea is to only stretch problem areas, as flexibility in all other areas will be maintained through full ROM barbell exercises.
* I believe the book also advises to warm-up before a workout with dynamic stretches

 

[Terzo]

A follow up question. How close to the exercise should I stretch? Would it be fine if I warm up at home, stretch, then go to the gym (~10 minutes door to door)?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

A follow up question. How close to the exercise should I stretch? Would it be fine if I warm up at home, stretch, then go to the gym (~10 minutes door to door)?

It depends on what type of exercise you're doing. If you're going to go do non-weighted/aerobic exercise, you can stretch whenever - before or after. However, if you're going to be doing weightlifting or weighted movements, wait until after the exercises to stretch. If you don't, you'll be lifting on muscles with weakened connective tissue, which increases your risk of injury.

 

[Terzo]

It depends on what type of exercise you're doing. If you're going to go do non-weighted/aerobic exercise, you can stretch whenever - before or after. However, if you're going to be doing weightlifting or weighted movements, wait until after the exercises to stretch. If you don't, you'll be lifting on muscles with weakened connective tissue, which increases your risk of injury.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I was under the impression that you should stretch before lifting as a precaution (similar to stretching before soccer).

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I was under the impression that you should stretch before lifting as a precaution (similar to stretching before soccer).

You should do dynamic warmups, which include some light active drills to warm your muscles up, but not static stretching. Cheers

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Heh, sorry, I should have specified 3/4 angle from the front so I can get a better look at the knees.

Anyways, although I'm glad you lost the flip flops for this video, the other comment still applies: just as you hit the bottom of the squat, your hips roll under and pull your back out of extension. It's not terribly excessive, but if you have back pain from squats, my guess is that this is the cause. This could be a flexibility issue (tight hamstrings/glutes), but more likely, it's caused by lack of kinesthetic awareness and poor technique. The former is helped by doing supermans to learn what the back feels like in full extension and the latter is helped by following the advice in this article and this video.

just come out and say it.
you think he's sexy and you want to see his face.

 

[Koing]

Running...I can't be f0cked to do it, so I never do it. I can sprint pretty well though

Koing