I just love Ubuntu 7.10

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The Raven

Senior member
Oct 11, 2005
297
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
I wish you could game on it And use MS Outlook because I need Calandar/Exchange server.

Otherwise I would switch. Sigh

Linux people just dont understand that some of us CANT switch and we cant deal with crappy ports or half working software.

I'm not sure how feasible it is for you, but Evolution, installed by default, is supposed to be groupware. Why don't you try the LiveCD before nixing it completely (no pun intended)?

And you can run any app from VMware perfectly except for games. It is basically a mini-Windows environment inside your Linux. It's free assuming you already have a bought copy of XP. You just treat it like a mini PC: format its disk, install windows, install VM drivers, and use it. It works great.

Many people have gotten older games to work with varying success, or maybe even newer ones using supported software that costs a bit, like Cedega.

If you want to game it's recommended you stick to native Linux games or dual-boot w/ Windows, but I can't think of a single 'app' that VMware won't work with.

As far as Exchange goes, we have a SBS server that I am able to get into with Evolution. It asks for your OWA info to sync with the server. Mail looks great. I can't seem to view out Sharepoint Calendar, but I can see my exchange one. As for contacts: it looks like I am able to access the Shared Contacts on the srever, but for some reason I am unable to at the moment. Maybe someone else has more exp w/ Evo. Looks like this is a go!

I have no exp with Evo, but it looks pretty nice. Pretty much like Outlook. Yeah, definitely take a look at the Live CD. I'm sure you'll get something out of this. Good Luck.
 

ksaajasto

Senior member
Nov 29, 2006
212
0
0
i don't really know if i'll intall it or not... i want to game still, i might just pick up unreal, that still works on ubuntu... but that steam account costed me money too!!

erghh...

idk if its worth it, i'll probably pick up some cheap laptop to run one of them on, see how the stuff works out.
 

ksaajasto

Senior member
Nov 29, 2006
212
0
0
Originally posted by: Nothinman
I've tried it on 3 separate computers, and it can't see wireless cards in any of them. No internet = not a real operating system.

Wireless != the Internet. "Works for me".

yeah it works for me too... but it didnt' when i was just running it off of the live cd, so you'll want to try it with it.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,362
5,033
136
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Originally posted by: Nothinman
Linux people just dont understand that some of us CANT switch and we cant deal with crappy ports or half working software.

How is it Linux people's fault that MS won't port Office or game devs won't port their games?

So true.

As far as gaming goes, when I first started using Linux years ago (Fedora 2), I setup my windows gaming machine in dual boot. Linux was hard for me at the beginning, many things looked and functioned differently to me, it wasn't easy. Little by little, I started to use my Linux partition for programming, and everything that is multimedia and internet related it was just safer and smoother (without the bloated anti-spyware and anti-virus softaare). Meanwhile my gaming was done on XP.
A little bit after that, I started to notice that I was delaying my gaming urges to use Linux more. I finally reached the conclusion that I was enjoying tweaking my Linux setup more than I did playing games on windows. At the end I started to use open source games in order to satisfy whatever fps gaming needs I had and it wasn't long before I wiped away the windows partition, sold my expensive gaming hardware($1000+), saved myself the agony of going through the usual upgrade cycles and all was good in Linux land

I'm starting to migrate towards that more and more as I lose the time for games and newer games lose their appeal for me.

Time to upgrade both machines with 7.10...
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
My pipe dream for the future of gaming is just having fully immersive 3D world to screw around in.

Everything network-based, were your computer is mearly the terminal to the online world.

It can be like that right now to a certain extent if you only deal with 2D interfaces.

I don't know how much you all know about Linux and X Windows, but X Windows is a network protocol. That is it's not like the Windows Shell on Microsoft or Aqua on OS X were your dealing with only local communication and you have to use special things like RDP and VNC to access PCs remotely... All your GUI applications on Linux are network aware. They all, individually, can be accessed over any TCP network. Your firefox browser can be running on one machine, your Gnome stuff on another, and your email client on a third... and all of them work together in a single unified desktop on your local machine.

Most of the time this sort of thing is disabled because it's a security risk (X is not a secure protocol) but with minimal effort you can configure X to run over SSH connections and get reasonable security.

For X Windows versus HTTP.

X Server == Web browser
X.org server == Firefox Web browser
X clients == Webservers

X Clients are your applications. The gnome panel is a X client. So is the email stuff, file manager, your video games, etc etc. All of them can be run on remote machines. With AIGLX you can get 3D acceleration with remotely running applications also. In fact a lot of improvements to the '3d desktop' help out running applications over a network quite a bit.


Now imagine that inside your video games you can open up a web browser, a real web browser. Open up any application, access your media player, get the command line, etc etc. All of that from inside the game itself. Bring them forward, surf the internet, burn some cdroms, and then shove them out of the way to play games or interact with other players.

This is technically possible.. With compositing desktops the application is rendered off-screen then the image of the application is transposed over a rectangle primative in 3D space. It wouldn't be a far jump to make a game that would also be a X server. It's kinda complicated and a stupid idea by itself, but it's technically possible.

Now imagine that instead of this just being a video game.. this is a network'd 3D world and is your normal desktop. Inside this world there are games, but it's just a portion and people can kinda play around and make their own games using sophisticated scripting languages and such things... as well as the equivelent to websites and journals and forums and such. You'd be able to pull up applications running on your terminal, but also be able to access remote applications too.


From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquet_project
The Croquet Project is an international effort to promote the continued development of Croquet, a free software platform and a network operating system for developing and delivering deeply collaborative multi-user online applications. It features a network architecture that supports communication, collaboration, resource sharing, and synchronous computation among multiple users. Croquet provides a flexible framework in which most user interface concepts can be prototyped and deployed to create powerful and highly collaborative multi-user 2D and 3D applications and simulations. Croquet can be used to construct highly scalable collaborative data visualizations, virtual learning and problem solving environments, 3D wikis, online gaming environments (MMORPGs), and privately maintained/interconnected multiuser virtual environments.

http://www.croquetconsortium.org/index.php/Main_Page

If that does not work out then http://secondlife.com/ is open sourcing their code under the GPL license. Both client and server.
http://www.linuxworld.com/news...03107-second-life.html


edit:

Oh and I don't want to imply that Croquet or Secondlife support X Windows, but it makes sense to me that they would incorporate X support for backward compatability.
 

Netopia

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,793
4
81
drag, that was a very interesting post. Very futuristic image you created in my head!

Joe
 

Brazen

Diamond Member
Jul 14, 2000
4,259
0
0
Originally posted by: drag
My pipe dream for the future of gaming is just having fully immersive 3D world to screw around in.

Everything network-based, were your computer is mearly the terminal to the online world.

It can be like that right now to a certain extent if you only deal with 2D interfaces.

I don't know how much you all know about Linux and X Windows, but X Windows is a network protocol. That is it's not like the Windows Shell on Microsoft or Aqua on OS X were your dealing with only local communication and you have to use special things like RDP and VNC to access PCs remotely... All your GUI applications on Linux are network aware. They all, individually, can be accessed over any TCP network. Your firefox browser can be running on one machine, your Gnome stuff on another, and your email client on a third... and all of them work together in a single unified desktop on your local machine.

Most of the time this sort of thing is disabled because it's a security risk (X is not a secure protocol) but with minimal effort you can configure X to run over SSH connections and get reasonable security.

For X Windows versus HTTP.

X Server == Web browser
X.org server == Firefox Web browser
X clients == Webservers

X Clients are your applications. The gnome panel is a X client. So is the email stuff, file manager, your video games, etc etc. All of them can be run on remote machines. With AIGLX you can get 3D acceleration with remotely running applications also. In fact a lot of improvements to the '3d desktop' help out running applications over a network quite a bit.


Now imagine that inside your video games you can open up a web browser, a real web browser. Open up any application, access your media player, get the command line, etc etc. All of that from inside the game itself. Bring them forward, surf the internet, burn some cdroms, and then shove them out of the way to play games or interact with other players.

This is technically possible.. With compositing desktops the application is rendered off-screen then the image of the application is transposed over a rectangle primative in 3D space. It wouldn't be a far jump to make a game that would also be a X server. It's kinda complicated and a stupid idea by itself, but it's technically possible.

Now imagine that instead of this just being a video game.. this is a network'd 3D world and is your normal desktop. Inside this world there are games, but it's just a portion and people can kinda play around and make their own games using sophisticated scripting languages and such things... as well as the equivelent to websites and journals and forums and such. You'd be able to pull up applications running on your terminal, but also be able to access remote applications too.


From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquet_project
The Croquet Project is an international effort to promote the continued development of Croquet, a free software platform and a network operating system for developing and delivering deeply collaborative multi-user online applications. It features a network architecture that supports communication, collaboration, resource sharing, and synchronous computation among multiple users. Croquet provides a flexible framework in which most user interface concepts can be prototyped and deployed to create powerful and highly collaborative multi-user 2D and 3D applications and simulations. Croquet can be used to construct highly scalable collaborative data visualizations, virtual learning and problem solving environments, 3D wikis, online gaming environments (MMORPGs), and privately maintained/interconnected multiuser virtual environments.

http://www.croquetconsortium.org/index.php/Main_Page

If that does not work out then http://secondlife.com/ is open sourcing their code under the GPL license. Both client and server.
http://www.linuxworld.com/news...03107-second-life.html


edit:

Oh and I don't want to imply that Croquet or Secondlife support X Windows, but it makes sense to me that they would incorporate X support for backward compatability.

neat
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,362
5,033
136
By the way, how far has WiNE developed now? Last time I tried it many things would not run but I have read that since then it is much improved (to the point of being able to run Adobe CS2 apps).
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
By the way, how far has WiNE developed now? Last time I tried it many things would not run but I have read that since then it is much improved (to the point of being able to run Adobe CS2 apps).

No clue about CS2 apps but it's always improving so check out the AppDB and give it a try if you have a box handy.
 

indigo196

Member
Oct 14, 2007
47
0
0
Originally posted by: ShawnD1
I'm shocked anybody actually got Ubuntu to work properly. I've tried it on 3 separate computers, and it can't see wireless cards in any of them. No internet = not a real operating system. And with that, one more burned CD is thrown in the garbage

Well... Linux, as does Windows, requires drivers for your wireless. Usually you have to find out if the Kernel supports it and if not you have to add the cards 'firmware' (aka driver) to the /lib/firmware directory.
 

SleepWalkerX

Platinum Member
Jun 29, 2004
2,649
0
0
Originally posted by: indigo196
Originally posted by: ShawnD1
I'm shocked anybody actually got Ubuntu to work properly. I've tried it on 3 separate computers, and it can't see wireless cards in any of them. No internet = not a real operating system. And with that, one more burned CD is thrown in the garbage

Well... Linux, as does Windows, requires drivers for your wireless. Usually you have to find out if the Kernel supports it and if not you have to add the cards 'firmware' (aka driver) to the /lib/firmware directory.

I was going to mention that. A lot of wireless cards depend on firmware to be functional.

Be sure to research your wireless card's linux support before buying it.

http://linux-wless.passys.nl/
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Originally posted by: indigo196
He just asked for Linux people to understand that not everyone can make the switch.

That is how I read it as well, I am downloading the Ubuntu 7.10 x64 edition right now. I have been running my games on a separate hard drive for a while now, I will lose my Office 2007 and Visual Studio 2005, but I mainly program in C++ (console) and Java, but there are plenty of compilers for those on any platform.

Edit: my x1950 agp appears to be unsupported, as soon as I install the restricted driver, it refuses to run in anything but the command line interface, back to windows then.
 

Brazen

Diamond Member
Jul 14, 2000
4,259
0
0
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Edit: my x1950 agp appears to be unsupported, as soon as I install the restricted driver, it refuses to run in anything but the command line interface, back to windows then.

Is there any reason you can't use it without the restricted driver?
 

SleepWalkerX

Platinum Member
Jun 29, 2004
2,649
0
0
ATi is notorious for shoddy linux support, but soon we'll have open-source drivers so it won't be too big of a problem.

You could try installing build-essential and compiling the latest driver from ATi's website.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Originally posted by: Brazen

Is there any reason you can't use it without the restricted driver?

I only can use a generic 2D only driver (which comes with Ubuntu) without the restricted driver, but with the restricted driver, it will not boot to anything other than the console, which I used to get my generic 2D only driver back.

ATi is notorious for shoddy linux support, but soon we'll have open-source drivers so it won't be too big of a problem.
That is good news, any word on the time line for that?

I want to use it on my Laptop as well (Toshiba p105), but the sound on it (Conexant Waikiki) does not work, but that is a known issue dating back to 6.x I believe.
 

batmang

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2003
3,020
1
81
I'm using 7.10 at work and I think its pretty awesome. I've used many of the previous versions and this one is definitely the most solid. Even with an onboard ATi card, Compiz runs pretty good. I'm trying to get my dual monitor setup going which is the last thing I'm trying to configure. If only ActiveX controls worked with Firefox... If I could get that to work, and Outlook with exchange, I'd be 100% able to switch at work. At home I'm dual booting Leopard and 7.10 on my MacBook, which is just badass.
 

DasFox

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2003
4,668
46
91
Originally posted by: drag
Linux IS very game oriented. Unix's original sole purpose in life was to play games.

Options for customization, openness, and performance that Linux provides is perfect for games and pretty much anything else that demands high performance and customization.

It's the huge proprietary game makers that are not Linux oriented. They are big fans of closed source and their partnerships with Microsoft make them a crapload of money. They do not want that to change. Linux represents free software and it's virtually impossible to impliment any form of effective DRM for Linux. (beyond the fact that the basic technical concept of eforcable DRM is fundamentally flawed). Microsoft is not going to support Linux. EA is not going to support Linux. Steam's only purpose in life is to provide effective DRM controls over it's customers, etc etc.

The only people who do support Linux are people like ID, who make their living off of having a relatively open code base (and licensing it out to other people to use in their own proprietary games) and they like Linux/Unix and many many smaller independant gaming companies that exist seperate from the Microsoft marketting monolith.

Gamers have been bitching for years to people who make games like WoW to have a Linux version.. and guess what? The game makers don't _care_. They don't give a crap about their customers and they never listenned to them. They know they can release whatever bloated game with fancy graphics they want and if they buy enough magazine ads to ensure good reviews then fans will come running, money in hand, and will work their asses off to play the game no matter what is the cost in terms of hardware, software, or freedoms.

The best you can do for a lot of games is to pay to use Cedega. Cedega is a gaming oriented offshoot of Wine and they provide support for DRM drivers on Linux and sometimes these bigger game companies companies will work with them to ensure compatability with Linux using their wine-like approach. They do a good job. People get mistaken with Cedega sometimes and they'll to install the 'free' version of Cedega in a attempt to treat it like Wine.. which rarely works. They have GUIs for automaticly downloading and mananging multiple different versions of their software, and managing, launching and installing games. It's all very easy.

Where did you get the idea from that the sole purpose here was to play games?

Also let's not confuse the issue here, Linux isn't Unix, it's a Unix based system, and we're talking Linux, and the Linux kernel was developed by Linus Torvalds to bring about a better system then MINIX, that he was using.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
and the Linux kernel was developed by Linus Torvalds to bring about a better system then MINIX, that he was using

Actually it was developed to bring about a more free system than Minix since you had to pay to get a copy of Minix.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
5,763
981
126
Well long before Linux (and MINIX) there existed Freebsd which is pretty darn good and free. I think Linus motivation was more than "a better system then MINIX". I.e, I think he enjoyed the challenge of writing an os from scratch.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Well long before Linux (and MINIX) there existed Freebsd which is pretty darn good and free. I think Linus motivation was more than "a better system then MINIX". I.e, I think he enjoyed the challenge of writing an os from scratch.

If you read his book you'll see that while he obviously enjoys it, the original motivation was to create a terminal program to dial into his school's unix system and he kept needing more and more functionality until he realized he was creating a full blown OS.
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,673
580
126
I think one thing keeping many developers from breaking into Linux is the mindset of it's users. The simple fact is that the vast majority of Linux users out there expect open source=free. Very few casual linux users would actually "pay" for something on Linux. Many of the games people play on Linux people expect to be free.

About the only way past this I could see is universal platform support. However, supporting the three major platforms (Windows, Mac, and Linux) would cost an exorbitant about of money. I know these figures aren't accurate but lets say Windows has 90% market, Mac has 9%, and Linux has 1%. Development costs for all three platforms cost roughly the same. Why would a money-conscious game developer triple their programming AND support costs to capture an additional 11% market? Additionally, a 1% market who expects the majority of their software for free on on the very cheap? (I guess they could recoup some of their money from mac users, since their used to paying out the ass for things..) </mac-jab>

Additionally, graphics drivers just don't exist in Linux. Sure, there is mainstream GPU support for nVidia cards, but it does nothing for people with ATI cards (should be solved soon) or people with laptops.. (I can game on Windows on my Laptop, but I'm screwed in Linux)

There needs to be a joint cooperation between graphics companies, and the game developers to jointly produce their products. The Linux community will simply have to keep up since having them involved would only complicate matters due to the impossibly large variation of distros.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
About the only way past this I could see is universal platform support. However, supporting the three major platforms (Windows, Mac, and Linux) would cost an exorbitant about of money. I

id always managed to do it and still produce games that everyone considered the benchmark of their generation. Sound and input would probably be the most divergent and if you use something like SDL even that can be abstracted away from the platform.

Why would a money-conscious game developer triple their programming AND support costs to capture an additional 11% market? Additionally, a 1% market who expects the majority of their software for free on on the very cheap? (I guess they could recoup some of their money from mac users, since their used to paying out the ass for things..) </mac-jab>

Because it doesn't actually triple their costs.

Additionally, graphics drivers just don't exist in Linux. Sure, there is mainstream GPU support for nVidia cards, but it does nothing for people with ATI cards (should be solved soon) or people with laptops.. (I can game on Windows on my Laptop, but I'm screwed in Linux)

They exist, every machine I own has hardware accellerated video. If you can't find them or get them working that's one thing, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

There needs to be a joint cooperation between graphics companies, and the game developers to jointly produce their products. The Linux community will simply have to keep up since having them involved would only complicate matters due to the impossibly large variation of distros.

Once again, id managed to do it just fine. They probably did something ugly like statically linking external dependencies but it worked.
 
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