Originally posted by: Gand1
ANd does no one here want to approach the health care issues? If half this countries own people are having problems affording health care and are taxing hospital emergency rooms, what will 12 mill more people do to the hospitals then? You know none of the illegals have health care.
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Gand1
ANd does no one here want to approach the health care issues? If half this countries own people are having problems affording health care and are taxing hospital emergency rooms, what will 12 mill more people do to the hospitals then? You know none of the illegals have health care.
The illegals have no health care yet they clog emergency rooms aroung here when they become ill or injured. And emergency room care is the most expensive medical care there is.
As 1EZduzit mentioned above, it's not immigration that people are against. It's ILLEGAL immigration that the vast majority of Americans are against.
What part of I-L-L-E-G-A-L don't you people understand?
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
They get angry because some guy who grew up in a shack with a dirt floor in some mexican barrio comes to the US illegally.
Of course that would anger a lot of people, especially legal immigrants and naturalized citizens. Legal immigration should be increased, and illegal eliminated. That would probably lower the amount of people from Mexican barrios coming in though and give better opportunities for others (Nepalese villages I guess).
If they are here to work, let them in. We have plenty to go around, no need to be cultural elitists and not share the oppurtunity and in the end make america stronger, latin americas loss = our gain.
Originally posted by: jlbenedict
What is the actualy Immigration bill number??
I need to voice my opinion to Congress; I've been searching and haven't had too much luck on the Congress.org site..
Roger Toussaint, the president of the transit workers' union who led bus and subway workers in a strike that crippled New York City for three cold days in December, was sentenced yesterday in a surprise ruling to 10 days in jail.
Justice Theodore T. Jones of State Supreme Court in Brooklyn, who presided in December over hearings on the strike by Local 100 of the Transport Workers Union, announced the sentence after lawyers for Mr. Toussaint and two of his colleagues said they would not contest charges that they had been in contempt of court during the strike.
Mr. Toussaint was also fined $1,000. Ed Watt, the union's secretary-treasurer, and Darlyne Lawson, its recording secretary, were each fined $500, but were not sentenced to jail.
The strike, which left New Yorkers without subways or buses in the days before Christmas, "represented a really sad day in the history of New York City labor relations," said Justice Jones, in announcing his sentences.
"I am confounded by the tortured tale of these negotiations," he said. "It is unfortunate that it came down to an illegal strike, but it was nonetheless illegal."
The judge's ruling, read before a packed courtroom, provoked angry gasps from the 40 union supporters who were present.
The charges stemmed from the union leadership's failure to order transit workers back to work after Justice Jones ruled that they must do so under the state's Taylor Law, which prohibits strikes by public employees.
Speaking with reporters outside the courthouse, Mr. Toussaint called the sentences "regrettable," but added, "We will deal with them." When asked to respond to comments from some union advocates that his jail sentence would make him a martyr, he said, "We didn't do this for the cause of celebrity or fame." He was ordered to begin his jail sentence in 30 days, and a lawyer for the union, Daniel Bright, said an appeal was not expected.
The chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, Peter S. Kalikow, said the ruling "reflects the gravity of the union's decision to knowingly and willfully violate the law."
The ruling came amid a series of hearings on other penalties that are being sought for the strike, including fining the union $1 million for each day of the walkout, as dictated by the Taylor Law, and a motion by lawyers for the transit authority that it be authorized to stop automatic payroll deductions of union dues for Local 100 members.
Justice Jones has not ruled on those matters, but acknowledged yesterday that the financial penalties could put the union out of business.
"In light of the millions of dollars in fines," he said, "the potential danger to the continued existence of the union rests fully with the adjudication of those fines." The union maintains that either measure would devastate its overstretched finances.
Before the sentences were announced, Mr. Toussaint made an impassioned plea to the court, acknowledging that the strike was illegal but arguing that it was a necessary form of civil disobedience to defend the union from bad-faith bargaining by the transit authority. Lawyers for the authority and for Attorney General Eliot Spitzer had suggested that the union leaders be jailed and fined, but said they would accept community service as an alternative sentence.
The impact the jailing of Mr. Toussaint would have on the labor standoff between the union and the authority was unclear. It seemed to signal tough penalties for leaders of public employee unions who threaten to strike in the future, but it could also elevate Mr. Toussaint's standing as defender of organized labor.
Since the strike, Mr. Toussaint has been buffeted by criticism from opposite sides of the labor dispute. Many public officials have characterized his leadership as unyielding and irresponsible, while militant members of his own union say he too easily conceded to management demands in a contract proposal that was narrowly defeated by the membership in January.
With no negotiations taking place, the state has ordered binding arbitration to settle the dispute. Mr. Toussaint and other union leaders are urging members show their support in a second vote for the same contract they voted down, with ballots to be cast by next Tuesday.
But Roger L. Green, a Democratic state assemblyman from Brooklyn, who attended the hearing in support of the union, said Mr. Toussaint's jail sentence would provoke fresh calls to amend or eliminate the Taylor Law, which many union leaders believe gives an inevitable upper hand to management.
The jail sentence will give Mr. Toussaint "rock-star status," said Mr. Green, who added an allusion to the civil rights movement under the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
"It will add what Dr. King used to call creative tension" to change laws, Mr. Green said.
...the gravity of the union's decision to knowingly and willfully violate the law
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
If they are here to work, let them in. , no need to be cultural elitists and not share the oppurtunity and in the end make america stronger, latin americas loss = our gain.
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
We have plenty to go around
1. It is NOT racist to call these people "illegal aliens" In fact, "illegal aliens" is the only term used in federal laws and regulations to describe criminals (and they ARE criminals) who come into our country illegally. They are not illegal immigrants, not undocumented immigrants, not migrant workers, and not day laborers - they're ILLEGAL ALIENS.
2. Mexico is NOT a poor country. It has the fifth richest economy in the world, and by sending its teeming masses to our country, that status keeps on rising. Mexico has more resources per square mile than the U.S. and plenty of money to take care of its own people. Why should the taxpayers of this country subsidize Mexico's corruption?
3. Illegal aliens are NOT necessarily coming here to work. Lou Dobbs recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens. Plus, 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare. So, for a good proportion of these people, the American dream is crime and welfare, not coming here to work.
4. Illegal aliens are NOT doing work Americans won't do. What jobs won't Americans do? In most states, Americans still clean their own houses, do their own landscaping, clean hotel rooms, work in restaurants and fast food places, paint houses, DO CONSTRUCTION WORK, work in airports, etc. - just like we have the past 200 years before "our" government allowed these people to invade our country. There are 18 million Americans who cannot find a job, so illegal aliens who are coming here to work do so at peril to American workers.
5. Illegal aliens absolutely do not contribute more than they cost. Certainly the millions in prison and on welfare aren't contributing a dime to our economy, and the ones who are working often are paid in cash with no deductions for taxes at all. The ones who use fraudulent social security numbers and qualify to pay taxes and social security have so many deductions for dependents that they pay little if any taxes. We have seen them pay less than $100 in taxes and get back $4,000 refunds (thanks to earned income tax credits and multiple dependents). The Center for Immigration Studies estimates that the average Mexican illegal alien costs U.S. taxpayers a whopping $55,000 each. Some bargain, eh?
6. The economy does NOT depend on illegal aliens. Sure, greedy CEOs (making $50 to $150 MILLION a year) and business owners depend on illegal aliens, but due to #3, #4 and #5 above, the only thing illegal aliens are contributing to is the collapse of our economy and making the rich richer.
7. Without illegal aliens, the price of agricultural products and other goods and services will NOT soar. The definitive study on this subject is the University of Iowa's "How Much Is That Tomato?" The study concludes that 'since labor is such a small component of the end-price of agricultural products (which includes price to the growers, transportation costs, processing /storage costs, grocers' profit, etc.), using minimum wage workers instead of illegal aliens would increase prices of agricultural products by approximately 3 percent in the summer and 4 percent in the winter ... hardly the making of $10 heads of lettuce, $25 hamburgers, $1,000 per night Days Inn hotel rooms like the pro-illegal alien lobby claims.
8. Consumers are NOT benefiting from lower labor costs. Again, it's CEOs and business owners who benefit from taxpayer subsidies for their illegal alien workers. The Big Three automakers say they moved so many jobs to Mexico because their labor costs are 80 percent less than in America. Anybody notice the price of new cars spiraling downward under NAFTA?
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Becasue calling a fellow human illegal for where he happened to be born while being a immigrant yourself is plain hypocricy, think about it long and hard Dave.
Originally posted by: lozina
source
1. It is NOT racist to call these people "illegal aliens" In fact, "illegal aliens" is the only term used in federal laws and regulations to describe criminals (and they ARE criminals) who come into our country illegally. They are not illegal immigrants, not undocumented immigrants, not migrant workers, and not day laborers - they're ILLEGAL ALIENS.
2. Mexico is NOT a poor country. It has the fifth richest economy in the world, and by sending its teeming masses to our country, that status keeps on rising. Mexico has more resources per square mile than the U.S. and plenty of money to take care of its own people. Why should the taxpayers of this country subsidize Mexico's corruption?
3. Illegal aliens are NOT necessarily coming here to work. Lou Dobbs recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens. Plus, 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare. So, for a good proportion of these people, the American dream is crime and welfare, not coming here to work.
4. Illegal aliens are NOT doing work Americans won't do. What jobs won't Americans do? In most states, Americans still clean their own houses, do their own landscaping, clean hotel rooms, work in restaurants and fast food places, paint houses, DO CONSTRUCTION WORK, work in airports, etc. - just like we have the past 200 years before "our" government allowed these people to invade our country. There are 18 million Americans who cannot find a job, so illegal aliens who are coming here to work do so at peril to American workers.
5. Illegal aliens absolutely do not contribute more than they cost. Certainly the millions in prison and on welfare aren't contributing a dime to our economy, and the ones who are working often are paid in cash with no deductions for taxes at all. The ones who use fraudulent social security numbers and qualify to pay taxes and social security have so many deductions for dependents that they pay little if any taxes. We have seen them pay less than $100 in taxes and get back $4,000 refunds (thanks to earned income tax credits and multiple dependents). The Center for Immigration Studies estimates that the average Mexican illegal alien costs U.S. taxpayers a whopping $55,000 each. Some bargain, eh?
6. The economy does NOT depend on illegal aliens. Sure, greedy CEOs (making $50 to $150 MILLION a year) and business owners depend on illegal aliens, but due to #3, #4 and #5 above, the only thing illegal aliens are contributing to is the collapse of our economy and making the rich richer.
7. Without illegal aliens, the price of agricultural products and other goods and services will NOT soar. The definitive study on this subject is the University of Iowa's "How Much Is That Tomato?" The study concludes that 'since labor is such a small component of the end-price of agricultural products (which includes price to the growers, transportation costs, processing /storage costs, grocers' profit, etc.), using minimum wage workers instead of illegal aliens would increase prices of agricultural products by approximately 3 percent in the summer and 4 percent in the winter ... hardly the making of $10 heads of lettuce, $25 hamburgers, $1,000 per night Days Inn hotel rooms like the pro-illegal alien lobby claims.
8. Consumers are NOT benefiting from lower labor costs. Again, it's CEOs and business owners who benefit from taxpayer subsidies for their illegal alien workers. The Big Three automakers say they moved so many jobs to Mexico because their labor costs are 80 percent less than in America. Anybody notice the price of new cars spiraling downward under NAFTA?
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: lozina
source
QFT
This is just mind boggling. Thanks for posting the facts, lozina.
:thumbsup:
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
So there.
I see a person from another country working at some job to make a better life for himself, I think, "Good for him, that is great."
Hell, my family came over from europe at some point to carve out better lives for themselves, So, the way I see it, who am I to sit there and complain about immigrants? After all, the first illegal immigrants were white people. But, as usual, the haters have no comprehension of that...
"POOR ME, POOR ME!" Cries the middle class.
They get angry because some guy who grew up in a shack with a dirt floor in some mexican barrio comes to the US illegally.
I ask, what would YOU do? Keep living in that dirty hut hoping you don't die of some curable disease until you can move to the US legally? Or say, "screw it, at least being poor in the US isn't as bad as being poor here," And take off?
Then more cries about "handouts" they get... yeah, more BS. Frankly with all the advantages I have just being BORN here, I really don't care if some of my tax dollars go to help an immigrant get an education, after all it's all better for the nation in the end.
There, I vented.
Some point of view from real protesters
I was at a great rally today in Jersey City right behind the statue of liberty, there were lots of people, lots of chants of USA, USA, and a LOT we not immigrants, a lot were americans standing behind our fellow workers, so great to see us all come together of all colors, even the governor sent a speech and he is fully behind the newest americans, hurray!
For all the angry ones who think they are "losing out" and "getting something taken" step off and give people the same chance you had.
Anyhow, who are you to call someone immigrant, pilgrim
Originally posted by: EatSpam
I'd be hurting if I lost my job. Just because I'm white, doesn't mean I'm rich or that I got rich off the backs of someone less fortunate.
Originally posted by: BBond
Mexico is NOT a poor country. It has the fifth richest economy in the world
Originally posted by: CessnaFlyer
Steeplerot, you are a liar. You are lying when you say it's an immigration issue! It's about illegal immigration. I want all 12 million of then in a concentration camp, they have to be punished.
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: EatSpam
I'd be hurting if I lost my job. Just because I'm white, doesn't mean I'm rich or that I got rich off the backs of someone less fortunate.
Err... yea it kinda does. You would be rich even if you lost your job because you would own more wealth in posessions than most people in this world will ever earn in thier lives. And all Americans and Europeans (to some degree) got rich off the back of empire and slavery.
Originally posted by: BBond
Mexico is NOT a poor country. It has the fifth richest economy in the world
No it doesn't. It goes: United States, Japan, Germany, China, Britain, France, Italy... etc.
Originally posted by: CessnaFlyer
Steeplerot, you are a liar. You are lying when you say it's an immigration issue! It's about illegal immigration. I want all 12 million of then in a concentration camp, they have to be punished.
If this isn't worthy of an immediate ban I don't know what is. This man is a Nazi! Ban him!
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Gand1
ANd does no one here want to approach the health care issues? If half this countries own people are having problems affording health care and are taxing hospital emergency rooms, what will 12 mill more people do to the hospitals then? You know none of the illegals have health care.
The illegals have no health care yet they clog emergency rooms aroung here when they become ill or injured. And emergency room care is the most expensive medical care there is.
As 1EZduzit mentioned above, it's not immigration that people are against. It's ILLEGAL immigration that the vast majority of Americans are against.
What part of I-L-L-E-G-A-L don't you people understand?
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Says you. I'd be hurting if I lost my job. Just because I'm white, doesn't mean I'm rich or that I got rich off the backs of someone less fortunate.
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Gand1
ANd does no one here want to approach the health care issues? If half this countries own people are having problems affording health care and are taxing hospital emergency rooms, what will 12 mill more people do to the hospitals then? You know none of the illegals have health care.
The illegals have no health care yet they clog emergency rooms aroung here when they become ill or injured. And emergency room care is the most expensive medical care there is.
As 1EZduzit mentioned above, it's not immigration that people are against. It's ILLEGAL immigration that the vast majority of Americans are against.
What part of I-L-L-E-G-A-L don't you people understand?
Simple there is no I-L-L-E-G-A-L humans saying so is a hypocritical stance that is being thrown around to play off peoples jealousy.
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Says you. I'd be hurting if I lost my job. Just because I'm white, doesn't mean I'm rich or that I got rich off the backs of someone less fortunate.
Yeah? Then sorry, time to wash off that shoepolish off your face or accept reality, your a squatter from europe here from a very bloody colonial history and genocide.
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: EatSpam
I'd be hurting if I lost my job. Just because I'm white, doesn't mean I'm rich or that I got rich off the backs of someone less fortunate.
Err... yea it kinda does. You would be rich even if you lost your job because you would own more wealth in posessions than most people in this world will ever earn in thier lives. And all Americans and Europeans (to some degree) got rich off the back of empire and slavery.
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: EatSpam
I'd be hurting if I lost my job. Just because I'm white, doesn't mean I'm rich or that I got rich off the backs of someone less fortunate.
Err... yea it kinda does. You would be rich even if you lost your job because you would own more wealth in posessions than most people in this world will ever earn in thier lives. And all Americans and Europeans (to some degree) got rich off the back of empire and slavery.
Originally posted by: BBond
Mexico is NOT a poor country. It has the fifth richest economy in the world
No it doesn't. It goes: United States, Japan, Germany, China, Britain, France, Italy... etc.
Originally posted by: CessnaFlyer
Steeplerot, you are a liar. You are lying when you say it's an immigration issue! It's about illegal immigration. I want all 12 million of then in a concentration camp, they have to be punished.
If this isn't worthy of an immediate ban I don't know what is. This man is a Nazi! Ban him!
Mexico is #10-12 (nominal gdp)
Mexico is #85 (gdp per capita PPP)
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Gand1
ANd does no one here want to approach the health care issues? If half this countries own people are having problems affording health care and are taxing hospital emergency rooms, what will 12 mill more people do to the hospitals then? You know none of the illegals have health care.
The illegals have no health care yet they clog emergency rooms aroung here when they become ill or injured. And emergency room care is the most expensive medical care there is.
As 1EZduzit mentioned above, it's not immigration that people are against. It's ILLEGAL immigration that the vast majority of Americans are against.
What part of I-L-L-E-G-A-L don't you people understand?
Simple there is no I-L-L-E-G-A-L humans saying so is a hypocritical stance that is being thrown around to play off peoples jealousy.
that's the dumbest argument I've ever heard. They are illegal immigrants because they're de facto trespassing on the U.S. land.
Saying things like "there are no illgal humans" is akin to the supertrooper's line "you can't own water, man. It's god's water". Sounds great when you're high, but then you come down and realize it doesn't even come close to making any sense.
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Gand1
ANd does no one here want to approach the health care issues? If half this countries own people are having problems affording health care and are taxing hospital emergency rooms, what will 12 mill more people do to the hospitals then? You know none of the illegals have health care.
The illegals have no health care yet they clog emergency rooms aroung here when they become ill or injured. And emergency room care is the most expensive medical care there is.
As 1EZduzit mentioned above, it's not immigration that people are against. It's ILLEGAL immigration that the vast majority of Americans are against.
What part of I-L-L-E-G-A-L don't you people understand?
Simple there is no I-L-L-E-G-A-L humans saying so is a hypocritical stance that is being thrown around to play off peoples jealousy.
that's the dumbest argument I've ever heard. They are illegal immigrants because they're de facto trespassing on the U.S. land. There is nothing inherently illegal about them, other than that they entered this country (immigrated) illegally. Hence "illegal immigrants".
Saying things like "there are no illegal humans" is akin to the supertrooper's line "you can't own water, man. It's god's water". Sounds great when you're high, but then you come down and realize it doesn't even come close to making any sense.
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: EatSpam
I'd be hurting if I lost my job. Just because I'm white, doesn't mean I'm rich or that I got rich off the backs of someone less fortunate.
Err... yea it kinda does. You would be rich even if you lost your job because you would own more wealth in posessions than most people in this world will ever earn in thier lives. And all Americans and Europeans (to some degree) got rich off the back of empire and slavery.
I can't help it that we have an overvalued currency. And don't worry, I'll get mine. Guys like Steeplerot and George W. Bush are working tirelessly to fvck over white middle class types like myself.
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Gand1
ANd does no one here want to approach the health care issues? If half this countries own people are having problems affording health care and are taxing hospital emergency rooms, what will 12 mill more people do to the hospitals then? You know none of the illegals have health care.
The illegals have no health care yet they clog emergency rooms aroung here when they become ill or injured. And emergency room care is the most expensive medical care there is.
As 1EZduzit mentioned above, it's not immigration that people are against. It's ILLEGAL immigration that the vast majority of Americans are against.
What part of I-L-L-E-G-A-L don't you people understand?
Simple there is no I-L-L-E-G-A-L humans saying so is a hypocritical stance that is being thrown around to play off peoples jealousy.
that's the dumbest argument I've ever heard. They are illegal immigrants because they're de facto trespassing on the U.S. land.
Saying things like "there are no illgal humans" is akin to the supertrooper's line "you can't own water, man. It's god's water". Sounds great when you're high, but then you come down and realize it doesn't even come close to making any sense.
Think about it, you all are buying some crazy lines from tv or some crap, you are blatenently acting like you own this country and old racist laws should never be questioned and have no problem discriminating using the mas a justification, all of you need to step back from figures and crap spewed from a bunch of old racist white men on your tv and think for yourselves for a minute.