I Love Immigrants

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Steeple, we love how bad you pwn yourself. You continue to pull race cards, spout off about how everyone's sources are related to the KKK and hate groups w/out a shred of evidence, and fail to provide ANY evidence that illegals contribute any amount of monetary value to our society > what they burden the system with. You sir, win the Anandtech dumb martyr award.

Solution to this crap: I think we need a better border system to keep these illegals out. I would be all for an increase in taxes to better our defenses against fence hoppers. What do you guys think?

I have a good idea for you, if illegals should be dead as you say then kill yourself, you are living on broken treaty indian land, and the constitution says treatys are law. Your illegal so nice knowing you. (A bit about john tanton's hate network of anti-latino "studies") where lou dobbs and oreilly are getting all this fearmongering racism they are feeding you from.

Um, from your own stupid website of editorials regarding "fearmongering":
It's not so much that Dobbs says things that are untrue; it's that he has refused, even in the face of mounting evidence, to report on the anti-immigration movement and its leaders' ties to organized racism.
They say nothing about what Dobb's says as "fearmongering". Oh wait, you just made that up!

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: CessnaFlyer

Originally posted by: CessnaFlyer
Rot, what do you do for a living? You are probably a student, daddy is paying your way, and you have never had a real job!

You going to answer?

He admitted he's never had a real job, and his parents got here illegally. Wouldn't be surprised if he was stealing services from a community college computer lab that is lax on who gets to use it. But I do give him some credit, he actually learned English. Many illegals refuse to even learn English and think we should cater to them.

You are an idiot see above as you get pwnt.

Oh really? See above for more activist stupidity.

 

[SP33Demon]

Seems like all of the ideas this guy gets are from the "Southern Poverty Law Center" website which monitors hate groups like the KKK, Neo Nazi's etc. That's why he's throwing the race card around, because he spends all his time reading about anti immigration hate groups. Guess what champ, many of us aren't racists, let alone anti immigration. I am against illegal immigration.

You probably also missed the latest PEW Hispanic Center poll: "Do illegal migrants help the US Economy?" They asked Hispanics who were born in the US: The results? 55% said Yes, 34% Said No. That's pretty disturbing when you can't even get your own people, who came here legally, to agree to support you.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: CessnaFlyer
Illegal immigrants are a drain on the American Economy!

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.


Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).


With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.


On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other households.


Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them.


If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.


Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.


Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.


The fact that legal immigrants with few years of schooling are a large fiscal drain does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a net drain -- many legal immigrants are highly skilled.


The vast majority of illegals hold jobs. Thus the fiscal deficit they create for the federal government is not the result of an unwillingness to work.


The results of this study are consistent with a 1997 study by the National Research Council, which also found that immigrants' education level is a key determinant of their fiscal impact.



http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Heh, have you ever consider the possibility that those illegal don't pay that much in tax simply because of their illegal status? is it possible that if they actually become legal and is able to work in any job, they may actually get paid more and pay more tax?

Even if what you said is true, what are you going to do about the illegal here? try to catch everyone of them? can you accomplish that without racial profiling and violating the rights of legal immigrants and those who has become american citizen?

Even if you catch everyone of them, what are you going to do with their kids that are American citizen? Let them live in the US without parents, home, and wonder the street?

People like you just talk about how much problem illegal immgrants created. But if you ever go through the immigration process, like I have, you'd know all immigrants, legal or illegal could've been much more productive and contribute much more to this society if the freaking system don't place that much restriction.

Plus I don't know if u read the paper or watch the news. New immigrants from Latin America and other part of the world has become a strong force in America politics. There is no way that America, which include all those new immigrants, will create laws to deport all the illegals here. Many of the illegal immigrants have family and friends that are citizen here, and most new immigrants at least sympathize with what those illegal immigrants all go through.

If you wanna do something practical, grant the illegal amensty and make them active and productive citizen of USA. Or you can continue to preach things that only creates more hatred between groups and accomplish nothing else.

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Topic Title: I love immigrants
Topic Summary: I said it

After all, the first illegal immigrants were white people. But, as usual, the haters have no comprehension of that...

At least you're being honest on how you hate America.

You must forgive the OT. They either don't understand the English language well enough to distinguish between immigrants and those entering a country illegally.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: CessnaFlyer
Illegal immigrants are a drain on the American Economy!

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.


Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).


With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.


On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other households.


Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them.


If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.


Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.


Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.


The fact that legal immigrants with few years of schooling are a large fiscal drain does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a net drain -- many legal immigrants are highly skilled.


The vast majority of illegals hold jobs. Thus the fiscal deficit they create for the federal government is not the result of an unwillingness to work.


The results of this study are consistent with a 1997 study by the National Research Council, which also found that immigrants' education level is a key determinant of their fiscal impact.



http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Heh, have you ever consider the possibility that those illegal don't pay that much in tax simply because of their illegal status? is it possible that if they actually become legal and is able to work in any job, they may actually get paid more and pay more tax?

Even if what you said is true, what are you going to do about the illegal here? try to catch everyone of them? can you accomplish that without racial profiling and violating the rights of legal immigrants and those who has become american citizen?

Even if you catch everyone of them, what are you going to do with their kids that are American citizen? Let them live in the US without parents, home, and wonder the street?

People like you just talk about how much problem illegal immgrants created. But if you ever go through the immigration process, like I have, you'd know all immigrants, legal or illegal could've been much more productive and contribute much more to this society if the freaking system don't place that much restriction.

Plus I don't know if u read the paper or watch the news. New immigrants from Latin America and other part of the world has become a strong force in America politics. There is no way that America, which include all those new immigrants, will create laws to deport all the illegals here. Many of the illegal immigrants have family and friends that are citizen here, and most new immigrants at least sympathize with what those illegal immigrants all go through.

If you wanna do something practical, grant the illegal amensty and make them active and productive citizen of USA. Or you can continue to preach things that only creates more hatred between groups and accomplish nothing else.

Absolutely incorrect (bolded). Did you even read the post 3 above yours that showed that 34% of Hispanics don't think illegals even help the economy? Many Hispanics have adamantly said that illegals are lowering their already low wages and undercutting them. All of their jobs are now worth less and harder to find because of illegals. And the sad fact of the matter is, they got here the legal way and are now being screwed by their own people, the illegals.

My solution? Grant them a guest worker permit for 2 years max, and then deport them. They get time to get on their feet, earn some cash and save, and then when they get back they can apply the right/legal way like everyone else. And this method avoids granting them citizen amnesty and encouraging more of them to jump the fence.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Absolutely incorrect (bolded). Did you even read the post 3 above yours that showed that 34% of Hispanics don't think illegals even help the economy? Many Hispanics have adamantly said that illegals are lowering their already low wages and undercutting them. All of their jobs are now worth less and harder to find because of illegals. And the sad fact of the matter is, they got here the legal way and are now being screwed by their own people, the illegals.

My solution? Grant them a guest worker permit for 2 years max, and then deport them. They get time to get on their feet, earn some cash and save, and then when they get back they can apply the right/legal way like everyone else. And this method avoids granting them citizen amnesty and encouraging more of them to jump the fence.

Do you consider 34% majority? I think most people don't. Like I said, the illegals are able to lower and undercut people's wage here because of their illegal status and they are forced to work at a lower wage. If they become legal, everyone will compete equally.

I don't know how many hispanic people you know, but the ones I know and the ones that became citizen in the last 10/15 years was either a illegal themselves at one time and became citizen through amnesty, or become a citzen through a family member that was a illegal immigrant at one time and became citizen through amnesty. Most of the hispanic people I know supported the more relaxed immigration policy and amnesty and many planned to be in the rally going on around the nation.

I don't know if you live in the real world or not, but I wonder how you plan to track the illegal immigrants to issue them work permit. Or you think they will report to the government willingly only so they can be deported in two years and rely on the most efficient immigration bearucrats on earth to grant them the way back into US.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Absolutely incorrect (bolded). Did you even read the post 3 above yours that showed that 34% of Hispanics don't think illegals even help the economy? Many Hispanics have adamantly said that illegals are lowering their already low wages and undercutting them. All of their jobs are now worth less and harder to find because of illegals. And the sad fact of the matter is, they got here the legal way and are now being screwed by their own people, the illegals.

My solution? Grant them a guest worker permit for 2 years max, and then deport them. They get time to get on their feet, earn some cash and save, and then when they get back they can apply the right/legal way like everyone else. And this method avoids granting them citizen amnesty and encouraging more of them to jump the fence.

Do you consider 34% majority? I think most people don't. Like I said, the illegals are able to lower and undercut people's wage here because of their illegal status and they are forced to work at a lower wage. If they become legal, everyone will compete equally.

I don't know how many hispanic people you know, but the ones I know and the ones that became citizen in the last 10/15 years was either a illegal themselves at one time and became citizen through amnesty, or become a citzen through a family member that was a illegal immigrant at one time and became citizen through amnesty. Most of the hispanic people I know supported the more relaxed immigration policy and amnesty and many planned to be in the rally going on around the nation.

I don't know if you live in the real world or not, but I wonder how you plan to track the illegal immigrants to issue them work permit. Or you think they will report to the government willingly only so they can be deported in two years and rely on the most efficient immigration bearucrats on earth to grant them the way back into US.

No, of course 34% isn't majority. I am pointing out the fact that even in the Hispanic community, it's bipartisan with respect to the issue. The fact that it's not more than 55% approval on helping the economy is not surprising since they are getting screwed by their own people.

How will you track illegals, you ask? Easy, require businesses to report to a state -->federal system (just like motor vehicles are nationally linked nowdays) a unique ID for each worker, most likely SS#. Have the system, provide a check on the number whether it's valid or not and in use somewhere else (i.e. stolen). If there is a discrepancy in the number, then that person is arrested and given a worker's permit.

2 years is very generous amount of time to give an illegal to save enough cash, more than he would have ever made in his homeland, in preparation for the deportation process.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: CessnaFlyer
I like Lou Dobs, and I think I even like you! LOL

You're an idiot.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Absolutely incorrect (bolded). Did you even read the post 3 above yours that showed that 34% of Hispanics don't think illegals even help the economy? Many Hispanics have adamantly said that illegals are lowering their already low wages and undercutting them. All of their jobs are now worth less and harder to find because of illegals. And the sad fact of the matter is, they got here the legal way and are now being screwed by their own people, the illegals.

My solution? Grant them a guest worker permit for 2 years max, and then deport them. They get time to get on their feet, earn some cash and save, and then when they get back they can apply the right/legal way like everyone else. And this method avoids granting them citizen amnesty and encouraging more of them to jump the fence.

Do you consider 34% majority? I think most people don't. Like I said, the illegals are able to lower and undercut people's wage here because of their illegal status and they are forced to work at a lower wage. If they become legal, everyone will compete equally.

I don't know how many hispanic people you know, but the ones I know and the ones that became citizen in the last 10/15 years was either a illegal themselves at one time and became citizen through amnesty, or become a citzen through a family member that was a illegal immigrant at one time and became citizen through amnesty. Most of the hispanic people I know supported the more relaxed immigration policy and amnesty and many planned to be in the rally going on around the nation.

I don't know if you live in the real world or not, but I wonder how you plan to track the illegal immigrants to issue them work permit. Or you think they will report to the government willingly only so they can be deported in two years and rely on the most efficient immigration bearucrats on earth to grant them the way back into US.

No, of course 34% isn't majority. I am pointing out the fact that even in the Hispanic community, it's bipartisan with respect to the issue. The fact that it's not more than 55% approval on helping the economy is not surprising since they are getting screwed by their own people.

How will you track illegals, you ask? Easy, require businesses to report to a state -->federal system (just like motor vehicles are nationally linked nowdays) a unique ID for each worker, most likely SS#. Have the system, provide a check on the number whether it's valid or not and in use somewhere else (i.e. stolen). If there is a discrepancy in the number, then that person is arrested and given a worker's permit.

2 years is very generous amount of time to give an illegal to save enough cash, more than he would have ever made in his homeland, in preparation for the deportation process.

You are also a tremendous idiot.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Absolutely incorrect (bolded). Did you even read the post 3 above yours that showed that 34% of Hispanics don't think illegals even help the economy? Many Hispanics have adamantly said that illegals are lowering their already low wages and undercutting them. All of their jobs are now worth less and harder to find because of illegals. And the sad fact of the matter is, they got here the legal way and are now being screwed by their own people, the illegals.

My solution? Grant them a guest worker permit for 2 years max, and then deport them. They get time to get on their feet, earn some cash and save, and then when they get back they can apply the right/legal way like everyone else. And this method avoids granting them citizen amnesty and encouraging more of them to jump the fence.

Do you consider 34% majority? I think most people don't. Like I said, the illegals are able to lower and undercut people's wage here because of their illegal status and they are forced to work at a lower wage. If they become legal, everyone will compete equally.

I don't know how many hispanic people you know, but the ones I know and the ones that became citizen in the last 10/15 years was either a illegal themselves at one time and became citizen through amnesty, or become a citzen through a family member that was a illegal immigrant at one time and became citizen through amnesty. Most of the hispanic people I know supported the more relaxed immigration policy and amnesty and many planned to be in the rally going on around the nation.

I don't know if you live in the real world or not, but I wonder how you plan to track the illegal immigrants to issue them work permit. Or you think they will report to the government willingly only so they can be deported in two years and rely on the most efficient immigration bearucrats on earth to grant them the way back into US.

No, of course 34% isn't majority. I am pointing out the fact that even in the Hispanic community, it's bipartisan with respect to the issue. The fact that it's not more than 55% approval on helping the economy is not surprising since they are getting screwed by their own people.

How will you track illegals, you ask? Easy, require businesses to report to a state -->federal system (just like motor vehicles are nationally linked nowdays) a unique ID for each worker, most likely SS#. Have the system, provide a check on the number whether it's valid or not and in use somewhere else (i.e. stolen). If there is a discrepancy in the number, then that person is arrested and given a worker's permit.

2 years is very generous amount of time to give an illegal to save enough cash, more than he would have ever made in his homeland, in preparation for the deportation process.

err, I don't know where you get the 55% approval, but 100%-34% is 66%. And I don't know if you ever worked in your life cause if you do, you would know that every business that hires people is already required to check their worker's work eligibility and fill up the w2's so the government can collect social security tax on those workers.

it's one thing to make rules and it's another to execute them. and it's also easy for you to say 2 years is a generous time and deportation is no biggie. But for those illegal immigrants it could mean leaving everything, life, work, family and friends behind and return to a place that they haven't lived in for 5/10 years and never know if they could return to the life they know.

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: Steeplerot



Think about it, you all are buying some crazy lines from tv or some crap, you are blatenently acting like you own this country and old racist laws should never be questioned and have no problem discriminating using the mas a justification, all of you need to step back from figures and crap spewed from a bunch of old racist white men on your tv and think for yourselves for a minute.

"Racist" laws? Where does the law specifically target a specific race? The illegal aliens are violating a broad immigration law.

Yes, the immigration laws are set up to mainly give access to western europeans since quotas were introduced, with no regard for migration. Nothing less then KKK insipired racial superiority, why do you think we are in such a situation in the first place? They are unrealistic and unamerican to the core.

Please stop pulling the race card. (bolded) This has NOTHING to do with race, wow people amaze me every day. Nobody has a problem with the race of an immigrant, the crux of the problem is that they got here illegally and are stealing from us. Do you know what stealing is?

Noone is stealing from anybody, whites here are the one getting the sweet deal, if anything the immigrants are the ones being taken advantage of and then have a racist group of people attack them for being loyal hardworking americans.

The whole "stealing from us" thing is the oldest klanner trick in the book to stir up ignitation in the whites against immigration and history shows immigration has NEVER hurt america..EVER.

Yet every time the klan get a foothold in public opinion throughout history they play this game with people fearmongering them into thinking someone is being ripped off -noone wants to be ripped off, everyone is always watching behind there back, but it is our greed for what is ours that make us loose our better judgement into what is the rational thing to do as americans.

America hasn't been around long enough to determine whether immigration has hurt it......lets look at the immigrant revolt of the Roman Empire that toppled Rome for example..........Steeplerot- my girlfriend is half-mexican. Keep labeling white people racists with no knowledge.........It is your only statement you make when you have nothing to argue......personally I find you to be racist towards white people.........

In reguards to your posts on the KKK, that is a bullshit argument based on the fact that because a group has opinions that are outside the norm, all their beliefs must be extremely one way of center......it isn't true............
- And that's if what you are saying is even correct in the first place which seeing all the other bs you spew- I find it highly doubtful.......

So honest question.....if Mexico attached itself to the US with their entire economy to ours- you truly feel that we would pull all of them to our standard of living? Personally I think theirs would raise and ours would lower until a median per capita was found.......

I HATE ILLEGALS- There I've said it...........

Criminal aliens should all go back to where they've come from- especially those who maintain ties with their homeland, are uneducated, and make no attempt at integrating into the American lifestyle or to use the official language of this country.......

My girlfriend agrees with my views- her mother, an illegal immigrant who married a us citizen- never taught her a lick of spanish because she wanted this to be her children's country.......if all illegal immigrants were like that I doubt we would be having this backlash against them that we have..........By the way, all 3 of my girlfriend's older brothers are in the Armed Forces......

Take your racist comments towards people of European descent and shove them Steeplerot........

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: hysperion

I HATE ILLEGALS- There I've said it...........


Take your racist comments towards people of European descent and shove them Steeplerot........

Good for you that you hate illegals and your girlfriends mom, you want a golf clap?

Immigrants are going nowhere, your own hate and ignorance has blinded you if you think they could ever go anywhere without screwing this country as we know it.

And as far as the sobbing going on for calling the supporters of a racist bill racists themselves, then why are you supporting it? Its not that difficult of a concept.

Millions are saying the same thing as me: No to Racist Bill H4437!

 

[magomago]

My girlfriend agrees with my views- her mother, an illegal immigrant who married a us citizen- never taught her a lick of spanish because she wanted this to be her children's country.......if all illegal immigrants were like that I doubt we would be having this backlash against them that we have..........By the way, all 3 of my girlfriend's older brothers are in the Armed Forces......

This is a side note...but I find that EXTREMELY sad...


As to my views on immigration (to stay on topic) this is what I think:
Illegal immigration sucks, you should get kicked out of the country and forced to wait in line. My roomate in the dorms had to wait forever to get in the USA, and then on top of it he was delayed a year b/c of 9/11 and that screwd up his education. I also have friends who have been waiting over SIX YEARS to get their green cards (They are legal, just not permanent residents) but to say 11 million Mexicans should be rewarded for breaking our laws is ludicrous.

On the other hand...I think immigration should be a LOT less restrictive. Immigration should largely be free flow; I don't favor many of the restrictions that people here beleive in, ie: have to have an education or a degree. If you are rich or poor and can get yourself to the USA well come on in! It may give Mexicans an advantage compared to people in Africa or Asia...but complaining about geographic advantages is stupid

 

[Steeplerot]

Migrant Criminalization



This illegal immigration issue is a blend of distraction from Iraq and the Bush collapse, a right wing adoption of racist, xenophobic ideas that originate with the KKK and neo-Nazi?s, and a potential disaster that could become as destructive, chaotic and out of control as the Iraq war, with costs that could reach as high, exceeding hundreds of billions, even a trillion dollars. We on the left MUST fight this steroidal rush into stupidity. The answer is not amnesty. We should look to the man who may be the world's most beloved hero for our answer, Nelson Mandela.

My grandfathers came to the US about 100 years ago. Back then, the doors were wide open. From 1900 to 1910, the average annual flow of migrants equaled more than 1 percent of the American population. Currently, it's a third of 1 percent, not the hyped massive wave, hysterics like Lou Dobbs suggest, in whatever words they use, night after night.

After 1910, things tightened up. Who knows how many less Europeans might have survived, how many millions less than 27 million would have been executed in concentration camps if the US had kept its borders open? Who knows how many unwritten symphonies, uninvented modern miracles don't exist because we closed our borders? We closed them and horrible things happened. We didn't cause the horrible things, but we could have saved millions.

Let's compare the decisions to tighten our immigration laws with the "Iraq war," which will ultimately cost us in excess of a trillion dollars, the right wing idiots and their spineless Democrat compadres have foisted upon us in Iraq. We haven't done a single damned useful thing there. Oil production and electricity generation is down. Freedoms have decreased. Fear has increased. Atrocities have become everyday.

I mention the war because the costs could have paid for job training, re-education of displaced workers, paid for universal health care for all and so much more. We could have invested that money to produce tax-paying workers contributing to our nation. But instead, some knee-jerk right wing xenophobes rode their surge of adrenalin like a tidal wave. The congressional democrats had the same information I had and millions of protestors had. They could have seen through the lies. They chose to vote for a war because they thought it would save their cowardly political asses.

Now we have a "situation" where there about 12 million "illegal" workers in the US. They're illegal because they slipped in to the US through its pathetically porous borders. They work at the low paying jobs-- in kitchens, on lawns, on farms. When I was a kid, I worked in a restaurant for minimal pay-- sixty five cents an hour, back in 1965. I mowed lawns for a few bucks a lawn, with the power mower I bought with the money I earned delivering newspapers, since the age of 12, earning two cents per daily and a nickel per Sunday paper. Back in 1963, I was working seven days a week to earn $12. But that enabled me to buy my first electric guitar. Now, I own a home and a Mexican team does my lawn. But their boss assures me they are all legal. if a neighbor kid came along, looking to find some lawn work, first, that would be a miracle. Kids don't do that work anymore. They can't do it on the computer... But if one of my neighbor's kids came along, I'd find some weeding for him to do, some yard cleanup, just like I buy candy or candles, when it's the time for the school fundraising drive. The Mexicans aren't taking away any work. They're helping me. These workers have become a part of the fabric of America. They work. They pay taxes. I see them at the local convenience story spending their income. It goes into the economy. Okay, so they send some of it home, to Mexico, to Jamaica, to all the nations in the central, southern and Caribbean Americas. They are doing what we might be doing anyway, except then, the right wingers would call it welfare.

Now, some right wing extremists have adopted some policies originally advocated by the KKK-- build a security wall. Throw out 12 million people. The KKK and neo-Nazi?s call our immigrants "mud people." In the antiabortion world, the strategy is to incrementally weaken and nibble away at Roe v. Wade, to gradually erode women's rights. It seems that the same thing is happening with migrants. Neo-Nazi?s and KKK haters would love to see blacks, Jews and foreigners removed from the US. Just imagine how happy they'd be to dump 12 million as a first batch.

Sensenbrenner?s HR4437 bill is racist, pandering to the worst, most hateful, narrow-minded among us. It is such a pure right wing issue, aimed at reaching out to the same weak, insecure, fearful, xenophobes who fear homosexuals and anything different from their narrow, parochial world.

It is crazy to propose suddenly making 12 million people-- 4% of our population criminals. The demonstrations we are seeing in LA and elsewhere are just the beginning. If I were Latino, I'd be out on the streets. I support the demonstrations. I feel connected to the demonstrators, though my immigrant roots date back 100 years. My grandfather fled the shtetl in Russia. He had to. He'd assaulted a Russian officer to defend his village from a pogrom. As a soldier in the Czar's army, he would have been executed if he'd stayed behind. He could probably have applied for asylum if he was contemporary. He came by boat, through Ellis Island. Once he made up his mind to leave, it was probably a fairly SAFE process. So many of the workers who come to the US risk their lives to come here. That's how much they want to be here. There's something good about that.

Bush says no to amnesty, that you don't forgive lawbreakers. I propose an alternative way to think about the situation, inspired by one of my heroes, one of the world's heroes, Nelson Mandela. In South Africa, there was SOOO much enmity between blacks and whites. But they instituted reconciliation and forgiveness. They manifested a miracle. We could do the same here. We could work things out with the 12 million workers already in the US and even with the millions more who will sneak in before we finally do secure our borders. We do need to secure them, with the risks of terrorism. That's the real issue we should be dealing with, not the distraction, the smokescreen that Sensenbrenner has raised. While we're reconciling the migrant worker dilemma, maybe we should take a look at the millions of prisoners being kept in jails because they broke a law that had no victim-- usually drug laws. Those laws are also racist.

We have our own forms of apartheid here. Don't start on technicalities of the word. We have racist policies. We have racist laws, and the right wing is threatening to make even more, worse laws that are, at heart, racist.

The repercussions of the stupid, impulsive, reptilian brain, territorial anti-migrant reflexes the right wing fear and mongers are whipping up in America could be frightening. So far the demonstrations have been peaceful. But if jackbooted, redneck cops decide to start the process of deportation early, before the criminalization of 12 million people becomes the dumbest law ever passed, violence could easily erupt. People will die. Property will be destroyed, potentially billions of dollars worth of property. Business will surely be disrupted, and that doesn?t include the unimaginable effects upon business by the deportations of millions of workers who are depended upon by industries. And let?s not forget the legal workers who will leave the US to stay with their spouses, parents and children who are deported. I wonder if they are included in economic calculations.

We have recent historic proof that right wingers and spineless democratic legislators are willing and able to lead us to incredibly idiotic choices-- think Iraq. They are in the process of, worse than climbing onto a slippery slope, jumping off a cliff.

One parasite who has been getting rich and famous on this issue is Lou Dobbs, of CNN. He has been flogging this issue, pretending it is about American jobs. Let's talk about jobs. The reason American workers are out of work is because of the USA's participation in the World Trade Organization, NAFTA, CAFTA and other globalization treaties that were invented by and for transnational corporations. There are a few hundred massive, multi-billion dollar companies that benefit from globalization, the rest of the world, including US workers, be damned. Right wingers, Lou Dobbs-- they should be taking pot shots at globalization, working to end those treaties, if they care about US workers. But they don't They're using the backs and families of migrants to play upon the fears and insecurities of the weakest minded, most ignorant Americans, the same ones they have trembling in fear of terrorism. These right wingers are, at the same time they want to declare 12 million people criminals, attempting to legalize the importing of hundreds of thousands more high paid immigrants who will replace American workers-- the geeks in the software and engineering industries. This is not about protecting jobs. Not about protecting jobs. This is more smoke and mirrors corporatist hokum and manipulation of the right wing "base" to distract from the abject incompetence and insanity
that got us into the Iraq disaster.

We on the left should stand with the migrants. Blacks should stand with the migrants. We should be valuing and appreciating them. We must remember that this is a distraction strategy that could be as outrageous and destructive a disastrous failure as the Iraq war.
-Rob Kall

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
There is no proof that this costs anyone anything extra if you work in the taxes they pay under the table, its another lame excuse.
Nobody buys it except those looking for a excuse to hate and scapegoat the poor.

Well according to steeple- I hate the poor, I hate Mexicans even though my girlfriend's older brother is my best friend and how I met her.......and I am a racist piece of ****** immigrant from Europe- the motherland of evil., even though I was born in this country.

Thankyou steeple- I saw the things on the internet where they will tell you your family background with a DNA test for $100...... You've just completely solved my identity crisis so I think I should send something to you.......Do you take paypal?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: hysperion

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
There is no proof that this costs anyone anything extra if you work in the taxes they pay under the table, its another lame excuse.
Nobody buys it except those looking for a excuse to hate and scapegoat the poor.

Well according to steeple- I hate the poor, I hate Mexicans even though my girlfriend's older brother is my best friend and how I met her.......and I am a racist piece of ****** immigrant from Europe- the motherland of evil., even though I was born in this country.

Thankyou steeple- I saw the things on the internet where they will tell you your family background with a DNA test for $100...... You've just completely solved my identity crisis so I think I should send something to you.......Do you take paypal?

:roll: it has nothing to do with color, you are either for a racist bill or not.

I could care less who introduced you to your GF, your dog, or sold you a toaster.

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: SP33Demon


You were already owned by my math earlier. It is fact that an illegal who earns 25K is ducking $4,000 in State and Federal taxes. Sales tax makes up for less than 20% of that number. Ever heard of TAX EVASION? Look up Al Capone, maybe you've heard of him, he was a criminal charged with it.

Your math is garbage (because it doesn't agree with my position) and already dismissed it (without any facts- just conjecture on my part), what you fail to realize is (I haven't read a single point anyone has made) they pay MORE taxes then you do(you see I know how much you paid in taxes last year)as they do not get back refunds (I don't have anything to back this up other then my own stubborn stupidity), so either keep up with the program (of allowing foreign invaders to take over our culture, jobs, and eventually our country) or stay in denial (I wonder if I should reword this so it sounds more powerful!).

CFT

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: hysperion

America hasn't been around long enough to determine whether immigration has hurt it......lets look at the immigrant revolt of the Roman Empire that toppled Rome for example..........Steeplerot- my girlfriend is half-mexican. Keep labeling white people racists with no knowledge.........It is your only statement you make when you have nothing to argue......personally I find you to be racist towards white people.........

In reguards to your posts on the KKK, that is a bullshit argument based on the fact that because a group has opinions that are outside the norm, all their beliefs must be extremely one way of center......it isn't true............
- And that's if what you are saying is even correct in the first place which seeing all the other bs you spew- I find it highly doubtful.......

So honest question.....if Mexico attached itself to the US with their entire economy to ours- you truly feel that we would pull all of them to our standard of living? Personally I think theirs would raise and ours would lower until a median per capita was found.......

I HATE ILLEGALS- There I've said it...........

Criminal aliens should all go back to where they've come from- especially those who maintain ties with their homeland, are uneducated, and make no attempt at integrating into the American lifestyle or to use the official language of this country.......

My girlfriend agrees with my views- her mother, an illegal immigrant who married a us citizen- never taught her a lick of spanish because she wanted this to be her children's country.......if all illegal immigrants were like that I doubt we would be having this backlash against them that we have..........By the way, all 3 of my girlfriend's older brothers are in the Armed Forces......

Take your racist comments towards people of European descent and shove them Steeplerot........

Heh, you hate illegals? then why the heck are you still with your girlfriend. She is nothing but a byproduct of illegal immigration. Her mom was here illegally and she wasn't suppose to be here in the first place. She should have been deported in the first place and she shouldn't been given a chance to become citizen since she was here illegally right? Your girlfriend shouldn't even been borned as she belongs to the slums of Mexico anyway.

In case you didn't notice, I am being sarcastic with statement above. You hate the millions of illegal immigrants? How many of them could/is married to American citizen and become citizen themselves? How many of them are going to have children that are outstanding American citizen and serve this country? Do you even know there are many "illegal" immigrants who are already married to American citizen or is trying to become a legal immigrants, and the only reason they are illegal is because the bureaucracy in the immigration office?

Dude, wake up, there are illegal immigrant who doesn't wanna speak english and sit on their butt all day, but there are also illegal immigrants who try hard to mix with the American society and teach their kids to become an american, just like your girlfriend's mom. There are also legal immigrants or even American citizen who think thier old country is the greatest and don't know how to speak english. There are American citizen who doesn't have a decent education and get handouts from government all day. Illegal immigration and not being patriotic or getting handouts from government are two different things and needs to be dealt with seperately.

Don't hate illegal immigrant just because they are illegal immigrants. If you really wanna hate someone, hate the people who don't wanna be an American or are too lazy to make their own living, illegal immigrants or not.

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: hysperion

America hasn't been around long enough to determine whether immigration has hurt it......lets look at the immigrant revolt of the Roman Empire that toppled Rome for example..........Steeplerot- my girlfriend is half-mexican. Keep labeling white people racists with no knowledge.........It is your only statement you make when you have nothing to argue......personally I find you to be racist towards white people.........

In reguards to your posts on the KKK, that is a bullshit argument based on the fact that because a group has opinions that are outside the norm, all their beliefs must be extremely one way of center......it isn't true............
- And that's if what you are saying is even correct in the first place which seeing all the other bs you spew- I find it highly doubtful.......

So honest question.....if Mexico attached itself to the US with their entire economy to ours- you truly feel that we would pull all of them to our standard of living? Personally I think theirs would raise and ours would lower until a median per capita was found.......

I HATE ILLEGALS- There I've said it...........

Criminal aliens should all go back to where they've come from- especially those who maintain ties with their homeland, are uneducated, and make no attempt at integrating into the American lifestyle or to use the official language of this country.......

My girlfriend agrees with my views- her mother, an illegal immigrant who married a us citizen- never taught her a lick of spanish because she wanted this to be her children's country.......if all illegal immigrants were like that I doubt we would be having this backlash against them that we have..........By the way, all 3 of my girlfriend's older brothers are in the Armed Forces......

Take your racist comments towards people of European descent and shove them Steeplerot........

Heh, you hate illegals? then why the heck are you still with your girlfriend. She is nothing but a byproduct of illegal immigration. Her mom was here illegally and she wasn't suppose to be here in the first place. She should have been deported in the first place and she shouldn't been given a chance to become citizen since she was here illegally right? Your girlfriend shouldn't even been borned as she belongs to the slums of Mexico anyway.

In case you didn't notice, I am being sarcastic with statement above. You hate the millions of illegal immigrants? How many of them could/is married to American citizen and become citizen themselves? How many of them are going to have children that are outstanding American citizen and serve this country? Do you even know there are many "illegal" immigrants who are already married to American citizen or is trying to become a legal immigrants, and the only reason they are illegal is because the bureaucracy in the immigration office?

Dude, wake up, there are illegal immigrant who doesn't wanna speak english and sit on their butt all day, but there are also illegal immigrants who try hard to mix with the American society and teach their kids to become an american, just like your girlfriend's mom. There are also legal immigrants or even American citizen who think thier old country is the greatest and don't know how to speak english. There are American citizen who doesn't have a decent education and get handouts from government all day. Illegal immigration and not being patriotic or getting handouts from government are two different things and needs to be dealt with seperately.

Don't hate illegal immigrant just because they are illegal immigrants. If you really wanna hate someone, hate the people who don't wanna be an American or are too lazy to make their own living, illegal immigrants or not.

perhaps you didn't realize the "I Hate Illegal Immigrants" was a parody of this thread's title......

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: hysperion

I HATE ILLEGALS- There I've said it...........


Take your racist comments towards people of European descent and shove them Steeplerot........

Good for you that you hate illegals and your girlfriends mom, you want a golf clap?

Immigrants are going nowhere, your own hate and ignorance has blinded you if you think they could ever go anywhere without screwing this country as we know it.

And as far as the sobbing going on for calling the supporters of a racist bill racists themselves, then why are you supporting it? Its not that difficult of a concept.

Millions are saying the same thing as me: No to Racist Bill H4437!

Your right, I'm sure there's approximately 12million people saying it right now.......lol

 

[Scorpion]

Are you kidding me? Open Boarders? All you Pro-Amnesty, Anti-Enforce-the-f@#king-Law people need to go back where you came from. Americas immigrantion was a LOOOONG time ago. In fact it was Mexico and Latin America that was immigrated first by the europeans, you don't see us trying to come down there do you? This arguement is complete RUBBISH. The fact is ITS THE LAW. You are BREAKING the law. I understand that you want a better life, but do it legally. I am part native american, so if we want to get into all of this calling everyone immigrants nonsense, then you can leave me out.

Here's a thought, while you're wasting so much freakin time protesting here in the US, waving your Mexican flags, why weren't you using that energy in Mexico to make some changes down there huH?! Show me your papers or get the hell back to your country and use the legal system to get in. I'm so tired of this whiney boo-hoo America is the new Mexico ******. This is my country, you wave my flag, and learn to speak my language, or go back to where you came from. GRRR this stuff has gotten me so frustrated lately.

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: hysperion

America hasn't been around long enough to determine whether immigration has hurt it......lets look at the immigrant revolt of the Roman Empire that toppled Rome for example..........Steeplerot- my girlfriend is half-mexican. Keep labeling white people racists with no knowledge.........It is your only statement you make when you have nothing to argue......personally I find you to be racist towards white people.........

In reguards to your posts on the KKK, that is a bullshit argument based on the fact that because a group has opinions that are outside the norm, all their beliefs must be extremely one way of center......it isn't true............
- And that's if what you are saying is even correct in the first place which seeing all the other bs you spew- I find it highly doubtful.......

So honest question.....if Mexico attached itself to the US with their entire economy to ours- you truly feel that we would pull all of them to our standard of living? Personally I think theirs would raise and ours would lower until a median per capita was found.......

I HATE ILLEGALS- There I've said it...........

Criminal aliens should all go back to where they've come from- especially those who maintain ties with their homeland, are uneducated, and make no attempt at integrating into the American lifestyle or to use the official language of this country.......

My girlfriend agrees with my views- her mother, an illegal immigrant who married a us citizen- never taught her a lick of spanish because she wanted this to be her children's country.......if all illegal immigrants were like that I doubt we would be having this backlash against them that we have..........By the way, all 3 of my girlfriend's older brothers are in the Armed Forces......

Take your racist comments towards people of European descent and shove them Steeplerot........

Heh, you hate illegals? then why the heck are you still with your girlfriend. She is nothing but a byproduct of illegal immigration. Her mom was here illegally and she wasn't suppose to be here in the first place. She should have been deported in the first place and she shouldn't been given a chance to become citizen since she was here illegally right? Your girlfriend shouldn't even been borned as she belongs to the slums of Mexico anyway.

In case you didn't notice, I am being sarcastic with statement above. You hate the millions of illegal immigrants? How many of them could/is married to American citizen and become citizen themselves? How many of them are going to have children that are outstanding American citizen and serve this country? Do you even know there are many "illegal" immigrants who are already married to American citizen or is trying to become a legal immigrants, and the only reason they are illegal is because the bureaucracy in the immigration office?

Dude, wake up, there are illegal immigrant who doesn't wanna speak english and sit on their butt all day, but there are also illegal immigrants who try hard to mix with the American society and teach their kids to become an american, just like your girlfriend's mom. There are also legal immigrants or even American citizen who think thier old country is the greatest and don't know how to speak english. There are American citizen who doesn't have a decent education and get handouts from government all day. Illegal immigration and not being patriotic or getting handouts from government are two different things and needs to be dealt with seperately.

Don't hate illegal immigrant just because they are illegal immigrants. If you really wanna hate someone, hate the people who don't wanna be an American or are too lazy to make their own living, illegal immigrants or not.

I've already posted this in another thread on the subject but if it were up to me until her mom married her father who is a us citizen she would have been deported........it's the same I feel about all criminal aliens......

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Scorpion
Are you kidding me? Open Boarders? All you Pro-Amnesty, Anti-Enforce-the-f@#king-Law people need to go back where you came from. Americas immigrantion was a LOOOONG time ago. In fact it was Mexico and Latin America that was immigrated first by the europeans, you don't see us trying to come down there do you? This arguement is complete RUBBISH. The fact is ITS THE LAW. You are BREAKING the law. I understand that you want a better life, but do it legally. I am part native american, so if we want to get into all of this calling everyone immigrants nonsense, then you can leave me out.

Here's a thought, while you're wasting so much freakin time protesting here in the US, waving your Mexican flags, why weren't you using that energy in Mexico to make some changes down there huH?! Show me your papers or get the hell back to your country and use the legal system to get in. I'm so tired of this whiney boo-hoo America is the new Mexico ******. This is my country, you wave my flag, and learn to speak my language, or go back to where you came from. GRRR this stuff has gotten me so frustrated lately.

You're not the only one frustrated by it.....

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: hysperion

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: hysperion

I HATE ILLEGALS- There I've said it...........


Take your racist comments towards people of European descent and shove them Steeplerot........

Good for you that you hate illegals and your girlfriends mom, you want a golf clap?

Immigrants are going nowhere, your own hate and ignorance has blinded you if you think they could ever go anywhere without screwing this country as we know it.

And as far as the sobbing going on for calling the supporters of a racist bill racists themselves, then why are you supporting it? Its not that difficult of a concept.

Millions are saying the same thing as me: No to Racist Bill H4437!

Your right, I'm sure there's approximately 12million people saying it right now.......lol

Wrong again pilgrim Most open to letting immigrants stay