Question I may be building a new system soon, but not "cutting edge"

[igor_kavinski]

I'm not quite ready yet.

Hope this whets your appetite.



Look how cool 9700X is running compared to the 12600K.



And yet it is beating the bejeezus out of the 12600K.

AMD Ryzen 7 9700X Review - The Magic of Zen 5

The AMD Ryzen 7 9700X boasts a robust eight-core design and exceptional single-threaded performance with great power efficiency. In our review we saw good gains with PBO overclocking and TDP increases. Unfortunately, the $360 price tag is steep, and there are several good alternatives available.

www.techpowerup.com

And just to put things into perspective, the 9700X with 16 threads is faster than the 5950X with 32 threads!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Forgetting about price, what's the best ASUS motherboard for that Ryzen 7 9700X processor?

I just read the review at PC Magazine. That really sounds like a winner. It's a winner as well for power consumption and thermal considerations. "Totally approved for air-cooling".

I just may start to move forward on this.

On the other hand, the Arrow Lake processors are due for release end of this year.

I can start off planning a "round robin" use of my computer cases.

I don't care if the AIO coolers have improved. Heatpipe coolers don't have any moving parts.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The ProArt is nice: https://www.newegg.com/asus-proart-x670e-creator-wifi/p/N82E16813119589

ASROCK Taichi is also great: https://www.newegg.com/asrock-x670e-taichi/p/N82E16813162071

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The ProArt is nice: https://www.newegg.com/asus-proart-x670e-creator-wifi/p/N82E16813119589

ASROCK Taichi is also great: https://www.newegg.com/asrock-x670e-taichi/p/N82E16813162071

I have several options, besides telling myself that these old Skylake cores and my computers are great and there's no sense in planning for the future.

1) I could build an Alder Lake system, maybe with an i7-12700.

2) I could build a Raptor Lake or Meteor Lake, and take my chances. Under the first and second options, attention must be given to cooling if I don't want to use an AIO water assembly.

3) I could build a Ryzen 7 9700X system, and take a more casual attitude toward the cooling problem

4) I could wait until September to year's end for the release of the Arrow Lake (Core Ultra 200 ?) This does not apparently offer performance gains of much over Meteor Lake, but there may be some desirable features: Leaked information show a mix of chips with 125W and 65W TDP specs, so again -- the cooling problem may just go away.

I"m building a spreadsheet with these options to populate with part specs and prices, so obviously the ProArt and Taichi will find a spot in it.

Right now, I'm looking at old and new cases. My best machines still use the old Coolermaster Stacker 832 midtowers. I can find these as used, but the shipping charges are a little high. I may also want to try something new.

Besides, savings for something like this comes out of my investment returns, and we want to see how much the DOW continues to go sideways. I already spent a bundle this summer on restoring and maintaining my old cars.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Buy a Ryzen Strix Point -based mini-PC?

 

[Shmee]

Whatever you decide on whether to build, buy whole, and what CPU etc, I would probably go with an AM5 based system at this point. Up to you if you want to grab a Ryzen 7700, 9700X, 7800X3D, or wait for the expected 9800X3D. Any of these would be a big upgrade from the Kaby Lake.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Whatever you decide on whether to build, buy whole, and what CPU etc, I would probably go with an AM5 based system at this point. Up to you if you want to grab a Ryzen 7700, 9700X, 7800X3D, or wait for the expected 9800X3D. Any of these would be a big upgrade from the Kaby Lake.

I was thinking myself that it might be the wiser choice. I've had an impression that thermal management may be easier, too.

How is it that Intel stuck with a 10nm lithography and AMD using a 4nm design? I didn't even think that 4nm was possible. Shows what little I know!

HERE'S SOME MORE INTEL ABOUT INTEL -- pertaining to Arrow Lake. Rumor of 100W decrease in maximum power draw at high frequencies. By a process of elimination directed at the laptop chips, they arrive at this conclusion about the desktop processors.

 

[Tech Junky]

10nm lithography

They've been doing it for a decade now and AMD has dropped to 3-4nm already.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Meteor Lake is not for enthusiast desktop, Arrow Lake will be, so that is the successor to raptor. It will be a new platform so be prepared for teething issues if you go that way. Alder Lake is a safe choice if you insist on Intel and it isn't like 12th gen performs poorly either. Definitely going to need good CPU and case cooling.

Hopefully the new microcode fixes the raptor lake degrading problems. As you know, It is the potentially most problematic so be prepared for downtime and have a backup system if you go that route.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Meteor Lake is not for enthusiast desktop, Arrow Lake will be, so that is the successor to raptor. It will be a new platform so be prepared for teething issues if you go that way. Alder Lake is a safe choice if you insist on Intel and it isn't like 12th gen performs poorly either. Definitely going to need good CPU and case cooling.

Hopefully the new microcode fixes the raptor lake degrading problems. As you know, It is the potentially most problematic so be prepared for downtime and have a backup system if you go that route.

Yeah -- we're all on the same page here, even if other contributors such as yourself take less time than I do before I build a new system.

I have a friend back East who was a Navy electronics tech and carried that specialty into civilian work life so he continues now way beyond his point of retirement. He and others that he knows tend to rock older systems. In his collection, he actually has a working VISTA system on a hardware platform consistent with a time of active VISTA support. My Kaby system was an answer to a serious static-charge accident I had on the first Skylake some five years after my Skylake build. I had very little remaining to purchase as parts for it, since I had spares of everything.

I've had building/DIY experiences that taught me something about casual choices of hardware, processors and so forth. My Sandy Bridge and then the Skylake (and Kaby) systems were consistently my most mature efforts. I would occasionally acquire spare parts and repeat a building project on the same platform, but that was a time when this house had three, very much alive computer users on a network.

At this point, I want to find the right level of performance alongside a reduced cooling requirement. I think this is going to be executed by year's end, when the money will be there. Sure -- I could run up a credit card and pay it off in a couple months, or I could pull money from my sweep fund account. But I'm not eager to do that. Next year I'll have to pay $40,000 in capital gains tax, so I'm holding back on everything but car repairs and travel plans. Anyway, when I pull the string, I'll probably "get by" for a budget of $1,500.

I think as you become more familiar with a new chipset and platform, there are afterthought purchases of parts which expand one's overall costs. And the Enthusiast platform for a new Intel CPU release -- well, you said it -- "teething issues", BIOS bugs and fixes.

 

[BoomerD]

Out of curiosity…why Windows 11?

 

[manly]

Out of curiosity…why Windows 11?

Win10 is EOL in 14 months, although you'll be able to pay for extended support.

Consumer pricing hasn't been announced yet. My guess is the cost will be $25/$50/$100 for the three years, respectively.

MS already announced business pricing: $61/$122/$244 .

I realize people don't like Win11 Spamvertisement edition, but there's not a whole lot of choice going forward IMO.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Slightly less expensive option: https://blog.0patch.com/2024/06/long-live-windows-10-with-0patch.html

 

[lakedude]

It is no secret that having "Intel 10nm" being equivalent to "TSMC 7nm", even though the numbers actually have nothing to do with the physical implementation, has ground at Intel for a while. A lot of the industry, for whatever reason, hasn’t learned that these numbers aren’t actually a physical measurement. They used to be, but when we moved from 2D planar transistors to 3D FinFET transistors, the numbers became nothing more than a marketing tool. Despite this, every time there’s an article about the technology, people get confused. We’ve been talking about it for half a decade, but the confusion still remains.



2021 H2, Intel 7: Previously known as 10nm Enhanced Super Fin or 10ESF. Alder Lake and Sapphire Rapids will now be known as Intel 7nm products, showcasing a 10-15% performance per watt gain over 10SF due to transistor optimizations. Alder Lake is currently in volume production. Intel’s Xe-HP will now be known as an Intel 7 product.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

It is no secret that having "Intel 10nm" being equivalent to "TSMC 7nm", even though the numbers actually have nothing to do with the physical implementation, has ground at Intel for a while. A lot of the industry, for whatever reason, hasn’t learned that these numbers aren’t actually a physical measurement. They used to be, but when we moved from 2D planar transistors to 3D FinFET transistors, the numbers became nothing more than a marketing tool. Despite this, every time there’s an article about the technology, people get confused. We’ve been talking about it for half a decade, but the confusion still remains.

View attachment 104946

2021 H2, Intel 7: Previously known as 10nm Enhanced Super Fin or 10ESF. Alder Lake and Sapphire Rapids will now be known as Intel 7nm products, showcasing a 10-15% performance per watt gain over 10SF due to transistor optimizations. Alder Lake is currently in volume production. Intel’s Xe-HP will now be known as an Intel 7 product.

Well, I hadn't kept up with all of this: my excuse is a seven-year preoccupation with eldercare routines for my Moms who passed last October. But then, since I'm still plugged in here at Anandtech, I suppose I'm "keeping up".

Truth is, Alder Lake hasn't arrived at it's third anniversary yet. And I'm curious to see what Arrow Lake offers -- probably about the same time.

 

[DaaQ]

I'm glad I posted this thread, because the feedback has been thought-provoking.

Already, I've re-examined the cooling requirements for the top-end i9 processor. I could easily scale back my choice to an i7-12700 or i7-12600. And as someone said, I might not even "NEED" that.

Also, I had built the Skylake (sky and kaby) with the extra RAM so I could use PrimoCache. On the new platforms, I don't think there'd be a need for that at all, so I could easily reconsider this dimension of the build. Now we're looking at storage with 7,000 mb/s sequential throughput. I might still want to use some spinners, but their speed is not an essential worry and caching them not so much of an improvement.

I also agree that I can afford to wait. These old quad-core CPUs based on the Skylake design are plenty fast for my current needs -- they just don't make Win 11 easily available. Even so, everyone is still leaning toward Win 10, when the Win 12 upgrade will be available September 2025.

As for cooling, I'd been inclined toward top-end air-coolers. The latest version of NH-D15 seems to be adequate, but I might still want to scale back my processor choice as I mentioned. I still might be better moving toward AIO water-cooling alternatives.

There's really no guarantee that Intel will emerge from this as we'd wish. So I should probably make myself look at AMD prospects.

I know a lot of people who've migrated to laptops exclusively, or even tablets supported by a keyboard for them. But I'm not "a lot of people", either. And I've got a win 11 laptop with 32GB RAM.

If, it is the Win11 that is making your decision more difficult, read my sig. I am running W11Pro on a FX8350 Asus CHVF-Z ddr3.

 

[DaaQ]

The ProArt is nice: https://www.newegg.com/asus-proart-x670e-creator-wifi/p/N82E16813119589

ASROCK Taichi is also great: https://www.newegg.com/asrock-x670e-taichi/p/N82E16813162071

What would you recommend for a Z5 mobo with ability to run 7900XTX and a Soundcard? without gimping the graphics, or the M.2s?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I had grown comfortable with the idea of using a Ryzen 7 9700X with one of the two boards suggested by Igor.

I've acquired some new information. You can check my thread on "Cases and Cooling". "How Coolers Should Be Tested"

But I'm going to wait until October for release of the Arrow Lake desktop processors, and then I'm going to wait some more until I can be sure of a good motherboard.

Meanwhile, I've had a good day, much of it at the computer, and I otherwise didn't get a G**D*** thing done. Well -- I bake-fried a Yuge Schwarzenegger chicken breast and two thighs, also Yuge. As much as I should get the exercise, I don't like going outdoors in the So-Cal sweltering heat, even if under 100F.

 

[BoomerD]

As for motherboards, don’t overlook the MSI Tomahawk lines. I was an ASUS fan for many years. When I was planning my current build last year, everywhere I looked, people were complaining about poor ASUS quality and customer service, even in their higher end boards. Then I looked at Gigabyte…same thing. Folks here steered me towards MSI…which I had always looked at as a low end board maker. For the most part, I couldn’t be happier with my Z690 MSI Tomahawk DDR4 board. (the built- in Intel v225 network adapter kind of sucks…drops connection occasionally) but MSI has released BIOS updates pretty regularly and it’s much better than it was year ago.)
My previous build…a pre-built IBuyPower rig from Costco, came with an ASRock Z390 board. It was a PITA right from the start. I actually considered just replacing the mobo instead of building new…but being 4 generations old, my options were pretty limited.

 

[igor_kavinski]

What would you recommend for a Z5 mobo with ability to run 7900XTX and a Soundcard? without gimping the graphics, or the M.2s?

If money were no object, I would probably get the Taichi. But this has a good balance of price and features: https://www.newegg.com/asrock-b650e-pg-riptide-wifi/p/N82E16813162079

The only problem with that one is the third M.2 slot is pretty gimped but only matters if you want more than two M.2. You could use an M.2 adapter in the vacant PCIe 3.0 x16 slot for two or even four more PCIe 3.0 x4 M.2 drives.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

WEll, I've made my own decision. I'll wait for Arrow Lake. Then I need to find the right motherboard, when the risk of imperfections is still high.

 

[Shmee]

WEll, I've made my own decision. I'll wait for Arrow Lake. Then I need to find the right motherboard, when the risk of imperfections is still high.

Waiting a bit isn't a bad idea, especially since the Zen 5 chips with 3D cache are not out yet. I would however exercise caution with a completely new platform at launch. It may be wise to wait a bit longer than just for launch, if Arrow Lake is what you decide on.

 

[BoomerD]

Waiting a bit isn't a bad idea, especially since the Zen 5 chips with 3D cache are not out yet. I would however exercise caution with a completely new platform at launch. It may be wise to wait a bit longer than just for launch, if Arrow Lake is what you decide on.

I agree. Early adopters often get stung. Remember the Cougar Point issue that affected the early Sandy Bridge adopters?

 

[bigboxes]

I agree. Early adopters often get stung. Remember the Cougar Point issue that affected the early Sandy Bridge adopters?

Never heard of it. I had Nahelem. It was easy to o/c. I didn't upgrade until Haswell.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Waiting a bit isn't a bad idea, especially since the Zen 5 chips with 3D cache are not out yet. I would however exercise caution with a completely new platform at launch. It may be wise to wait a bit longer than just for launch, if Arrow Lake is what you decide on.

I agree. I could change my mind to a different option, for instance AMD.

This isn't a "need" requirement, as long as I can do my common-sense computing work on these old Skylake/Kaby cores. I just can't upgrade to Win 11.

I joined Anandtech Forums around 2005, when I was building computers for the second time since 1997. Very quickly, I was on the overclocking bandwagon, and computer cooling. This was all in a desire to build a general purpose system that would be also good for gaming.

But I've sort of lost interest in gaming, without entirely letting go of it. So far, I've acquired the computer case and an ICY DOCK drive and ODD 5.25" adapter. I needn't spend any more money on this for the remainder of the year.