Question I may be building a new system soon, but not "cutting edge"

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Steltek

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
3,190
972
136
If one of your old systems can have Windows fresh installed on it, you can install Win11 on it with a Rufus created USB. It's the easiest, most painless way.
Given the way Microsoft has been insistent on eliminating the workarounds, at some point they are gonna include code in a feature update that refuses to install if the requirements are not met. Only a matter of time.
 
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Given the way Microsoft has been insistent on eliminating the workarounds, at some point they are gonna include code in a feature update that refuses to install if the requirements are not met. Only a matter of time.
Not too soon though. Maybe after October 2025? Win11 marketshare vs. that of Win10 has been shrinking as it is.
 
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Blazer7

Golden Member
Jun 26, 2007
1,136
12
81
All checks during installation are being made at a software level, Rufus just bypasses the software checks. It will be hard for M$ to eliminate all workarounds and if they do new will appear. Unless UEFI comes into place I don’t believe that they can stop this and I can’t see motherboard manufacturers play along.
 

Steltek

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
3,190
972
136
Not too soon though. Maybe after October 2025? Win11 marketshare vs. that of Win10 has been shrinking as it is.
True. The Win11 restrictions were of course Microsoft's attempt to begin to recreate Apple's "walled garden". However, it hasn't worked so far for them. Mainly because Windows 11 just plain sucks and they are too stupid to see it.

I'm torn thinking they will either hard code the TPM or other restrictions in a future Win11 update to absolutely force the issue, or they will release some type of "special retarded edition" of Win11 that won't require it but will be a paid upgrade. We'll see.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,877
1,548
126
I have friends who got their BS in computer science, doing consulting work for the last couple decades in the field. One in particular is still using a system she bought off the shelf in 2014. She wants to "clone her hard disk" because she's worried that it might go south or something.

I just personally believe that a 10 -year-old system used for anything serious needs to be replaced. I suppose if I need to do so, however, I can continue using Windows 10 for another couple years.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,732
2,694
136
I have friends who got their BS in computer science, doing consulting work for the last couple decades in the field. One in particular is still using a system she bought off the shelf in 2014. She wants to "clone her hard disk" because she's worried that it might go south or something.

I just personally believe that a 10 -year-old system used for anything serious needs to be replaced. I suppose if I need to do so, however, I can continue using Windows 10 for another couple years.
Our nuclear ICBMs run on very ancient tech. Up until about 6 or 7 years ago, they were still using 8-inch floppy disks. I've never seen those 1970s diskettes before, and I doubt that @igor_kavinski ever has?

I'm old enough to admit my first PC in the mid 1980s did use 5.25 inch floppies. I was lucky enough to have a 10MB "Winchester" hard drive.


A wife is serious business and most people don't replace those even when past their prime
Capitulation.
 
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Steltek

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
3,190
972
136
Our nuclear ICBMs run on very ancient tech. Up until about 6 or 7 years ago, they were still using 8-inch floppy disks. I've never seen those 1970s diskettes before, and I doubt that @igor_kavinski ever has?

I'm old enough to admit my first PC in the mid 1980s did use 5.25 inch floppies. I was lucky enough to have a 10MB "Winchester" hard drive.



Capitulation.

The first 6-7 years I worked for Social Security (early/mid 1990's), we (the entire agency, that is) were still using IBM 3270/5250 tap terminals. I think some of them were literally obtained as discontinued military surplus.

The main unit in the secure data room had an 8" floppy drive in it, and there was a blank box of 3M 8" floppies in the bottom of the unit. Those things were huge. To this day, I wish I had saved them when they threw the stuff out.

Worst part about it? The first LAN they set up for us (I believe it was like 1998?) used computers that were so slow and storage limited that I wished on more than one occasion they would just give us back the tap terminals....
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,877
1,548
126
The first 6-7 years I worked for Social Security (early/mid 1990's), we (the entire agency, that is) were still using IBM 3270/5250 tap terminals. I think some of them were literally obtained as discontinued military surplus.

The main unit in the secure data room had an 8" floppy drive in it, and there was a blank box of 3M 8" floppies in the bottom of the unit. Those things were huge. To this day, I wish I had saved them when they threw the stuff out.

Worst part about it? The first LAN they set up for us (I believe it was like 1998?) used computers that were so slow and storage limited that I wished on more than one occasion they would just give us back the tap terminals....
I was a federal civil servant for nearly 30 years. I cannot believe -- but I accept your story -- that Social Security Administration didn't upgrade to PCs by the late 1980s. I was with US Dept of Education, and by around 1992, most of the workers in my office had their own PC connected to the department LAN. My PC was upgraded twice over the next 8 years before I retired.

Back in the early 1980s, we had an IT administrator with a friend in a contractor company, who arranged a $20 million contract with his friend for purchase of standalone Z80 systems -- probably around 1982 or 1983. It seemed like a terrible waste of money. They had already given me a Compaq portable PC; they might have extended the advantage to others.

As for my friend with the 2014 system -- she's living up in Seattle, and I"m southeast of LA. I can't help her, beyond giving advice.

But it is an interesting situation. I'll be 80 years old in three years. I need to manage my portfolio and bank accounts. My computer(s) are important to the management of my life.
 
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I'm old enough to admit my first PC in the mid 1980s did use 5.25 inch floppies.
Hey, I had the pleasure of using these 360K/1.2MB disks too. Loved the sound that the drive made while reading that disk. It was better than the 3.5 inch disk reading sound.
 
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Steltek

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
3,190
972
136
Hey, I had the pleasure of using these 360K/1.2MB disks too. Loved the sound that the drive made while reading that disk. It was better than the 3.5 inch disk reading sound.
I remember punching new write holes on 180k Commodore PET disks in high school so we could use them as "flippies" to write on both sides of them (worked about half the time). And, I had a software utility that I paid for one time that let you write extra tracks on a 720k/1.2MB floppy to squeeze more data on them. Probably even still have a copy of that somewhere (that is, if the disk is still readable...).

Man, we're all gettin' too danged old....
 
Jul 27, 2020
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There were some companies back then that used to copyprotect their software by writing something like 1.6MB to 1.44MB disks so they couldn't be copied by normal cloning software.

We have terabytes now and I don't really care about storage space now but back then, man, wasted so much time daydreaming about getting more storage, including all kinds of crazy compression schemes. Using ARJ, PKZIP, Doublespace, Drivespace and the really bad Stacker 4.0 (I lost my entire data thanks to that, mostly games but there was some important personal data that went whoosh from existence and I don't even remember now what it was). I also lossy compressed some MP3s to very low bitrates to save on space and they still sounded better than cassette tapes! Would compress 320 kbps MP3s to 64 kbps ogg vorbis files and delude myself into thinking I was a genius for saving space like that without ANY quality loss! Man, those were the days when being actually stupid felt like being a genius
 
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Steltek

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
3,190
972
136
I was a federal civil servant for nearly 30 years. I cannot believe -- but I accept your story -- that Social Security Administration didn't upgrade to PCs by the late 1980s.
That would have forced the agency to spend money, while the military surplus hardware was free if you were willing to go get it. To say SSA operated on a shoestring budget back then was an understatement.

We did have one single 1983 IBM PC in the office (for management email) and a dot matrix printer to go with it. Amazingly enough, it was still being used for that up until about 1998.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,732
2,694
136
There were some companies back then that used to copyprotect their software by writing something like 1.6MB to 1.44MB disks so they couldn't be copied by normal cloning software.

We have terabytes now and I don't really care about storage space now but back then, man, wasted so much time daydreaming about getting more storage, including all kinds of crazy compression schemes. Using ARJ, PKZIP, Doublespace, Drivespace and the really bad Stacker 4.0 (I lost my entire data thanks to that, mostly games but there was some important personal data that went whoosh from existence and I don't even remember now what it was). I also lossy compressed some MP3s to very low bitrates to save on space and they still sounded better than cassette tapes! Would compress 320 kbps MP3s to 64 kbps ogg vorbis files and delude myself into thinking I was a genius for saving space like that without ANY quality loss! Man, those were the days when being actually stupid felt like being a genius
Fun history; Stacker originally used a hardware coprocessor card! 🤣


I still have a few 1.2MB floppy disks, but no way to read them. I think most of my pre- 1995 diskettes were tossed as well, as was the old hardware.
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,877
1,548
126
That would have forced the agency to spend money, while the military surplus hardware was free if you were willing to go get it. To say SSA operated on a shoestring budget back then was an understatement.

We did have one single 1983 IBM PC in the office (for management email) and a dot matrix printer to go with it. Amazingly enough, it was still being used for that up until about 1998.
As long as the agency fulfilled its mission efficiently, nobody can complain. My social security allotment appears every second Wednesday in my bank account, like clockwork.

I was just this week having a discussion with a retired USPS employee comparing notes about Reagan's "Windfall Elimination Provision Act" of 1983, in which we took a hit on our default SS entitlement based on private sector employment. There is now under consideration a Social Security 2100 Act which provisionally eliminates the WEP for new filers seeking their SS benefits.

But this belongs under a different forum.

IN this discussion, I'm wondering what my life would be like now if I had been a "last adopter" of PC technology in my life -- maybe purchasing my first PC after 2000. I was a "first adopter" in 1983 . . . .
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
29,442
24,096
146
Some food for thought.

I put together my first AM5 system this week. By waiting this long pricing was much better, and all of the early adopter issues are resolved. It's stupid fast and is yawning its way through my hardest gaming loads. I am constrained to 1080p until I convince myself to buy the gaming TV and new A/V receiver I've been talking about for the last year or so. I sometimes use super res to make it 1440 or 4k but it uses more power for scant little benefit visually.

Point being, Alder Lake is rock solid, inexpensive, and plenty fast. None of us know when the grim reaper is going to stop standing in the corner either. While you are 20yrs my senior, I already use that as the number one factor in my opportunity cost analysis.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,877
1,548
126
Some food for thought.

I put together my first AM5 system this week. By waiting this long pricing was much better, and all of the early adopter issues are resolved. It's stupid fast and is yawning its way through my hardest gaming loads. I am constrained to 1080p until I convince myself to buy the gaming TV and new A/V receiver I've been talking about for the last year or so. I sometimes use super res to make it 1440 or 4k but it uses more power for scant little benefit visually.

Point being, Alder Lake is rock solid, inexpensive, and plenty fast. None of us know when the grim reaper is going to stop standing in the corner either. While you are 20yrs my senior, I already use that as the number one factor in my opportunity cost analysis.
My health seems to be holding up; my willpower to exercise daily has fallen down, but I'm resolved to recover it. I have chosen a "course" of action through next spring on this matter, with a possible switchover in plans from a hopeful Arrow Lake build to Ryzen. But I've acquired initial parts to use already: the case, an ICYDOCK 5.25" bay device for 2x 2.5" HDDs and a Sony "slim" BD burner.

[The industry wants to drag us this way and that, and mainstreamers who purchase OEMs just go along for whatever ride is offered. But I WANT that ODD, and I WANT a couple spinners, even if I can socket a zillion NVME drives.]

It shouldn't even depend on how my "nest-egg" performs in the stock market, because the money will just "be there". Besides, we're not talking about a severe budgetary hurdle. At this point, with additional spare parts already in my possession, It should be less than $1,500 on a credit card that can be paid off by the beginning of the month following the "big buy".
 

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,435
1,034
136
I see I'm among "contemporaries". I had some of those 360/1.2MB 5.25" floppy drives, too.

If some cut their teeth on a Commodore, I got started in 1982 with a Sinclair Z80 -- or the Timex-Sinclair 1000 -- same product.
I love this, my first was the TRS80 with the cassette tape device connected via some cable I cannot remember, I had 2 games for it, all text based adventure games.

Brings back memories, of ON TV, where at primetime, you switched the A/B switch on the back of the TV to be able to watch 2 movies, I can't recall if it was on the weekend only or each day. Was my friend's parents home.
Then the Intellevision system he had. He also got a Commodore 64 after the TRS80. The Intellevision game system was followed by the Coleco vision.
 
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