I NEED VISTA DRIVERS FOR NVIDIA 8800GTX :!

[Cookie Monster]

I feel like if my post was ignored.
nVIDIA focused on the XP drivers much more since THEY knew Vista wont be available to the general public til jan 30th. By focusing on XP drivers, the G80 launch would be much more solid.

The reason youre not seeing XP drivers as frequent from nVIDIA is because they are working their ass off re writing hundred thousands of codes from scratch (actually 20 million lines of code) for both XP AND Vista. Right now they are probably working as hard as possible to get the most stable driver til Vista is avilable to the general public.

Here take a read again. I wonder if R600 will need seperate drviers as well.
It clearly states that nVIDIA made the decision to focus more the DX9/XP part of their driver becasue they knew 99% of the general public who bought the 8800 series uses XP OS. Its a good decision because if they focused on Vista then many people woudnt be able to use the G80 due to unstable XP drivers. Tough for the others who bought it to try it out on their BETA/RC/Business versions of Vista but this still doesnt mean G80 is incapable of running Vista. They just need more time (i could imagine the amount of caffine the software team is consuming each day) and they have promised to release the driver when Vista becomes available to the general public.

So whining/bitching/arguing doesnt really help the situation at all but rather helping nVIDIA by noting them the bugs/glitches/issues found in the XP driver under certain games. Especially working this with Chris Ray in forums like beyond3d or any other will allow him to directly "talk" with the forceware team about bugs/issues found. At the end of the day more issues/problems are noted and on the list of "to be fixed" i.e the software team can focus on optimising and tweaks to gain extra performance hopefully in the coming months.

From ATs Article:
CES 2007 Part I: Convergence Happened and the Most Impressive Demo of CES

We spoke to NVIDIA to understand why there isn?t a 8800 Vista driver currently and why we won?t see one until Vista?s launch. NVIDIA?s GPU drivers these days are made up of approximately 20 million lines of code, which as a reference point is about the size of Windows NT 4.0.

Because G70 and G80 are radically different architectures, they each require a separate driver. Combine that with the fact that Windows Vista has completely changed the driver interface, similar in magnitude to what happened between Windows 3.1 and 95, and you?ve got a ?perfect storm? of conditions for driver development. The end result is that for Windows Vista, two 20M line drivers have to be completely re-written (one for G80 and one from all previous architectures). In other words, this isn?t a simple port, it?s a radical departure from the way things were written before.

There are other elements of Vista driver development that apparently require more work than before. DirectX 9, DX9 SLI, DX10 and DX10 SLI support is provided through four separate binaries, which increases the complexity of testing and the overall driver itself, whereas there was only a single driver in the past.

Interfaces for HD-DVD and Blu-ray video acceleration requires a lot more code than before, thanks to the support for a protected path for HD video under Vista. Supporting this protected path for HD content decode means that you can?t re-use the video part of your driver when developing a Vista version.

The last major difference between Windows XP and Vista driver development is that the display engine connecting monitors to the GPUs has been completely redone.

Initial investment in driver development under Vista takes up quite a bit of time, and now we understand a little more of why. While it would be nice to have one today, there?s always a tradeoff that has to be made especially when driver work this intense has to be done. Couple that with the recent launch of NVIDIA?s G80 GPU and the decision was made to focus on DX9 and XP drivers in order to make the G80?s launch as solid as possible, and commit to delivering an 8800 driver by Vista?s launch.

When the driver is eventually available NVIDIA expects performance to be at par, slightly slower or slightly faster than the XP driver. What we?ve seen thus far from other Vista drivers is that performance is slower almost entirely across the board. As stability is currently the primary goal for both ATI and NVIDIA, many compiler optimizations and performance tweaks aren?t being used in order to get a good driver out in time for Vista?s launch.

Those looking for NVIDIA?s Vista 8800 GTX driver needn?t look any further than Microsoft?s booth at CES. All of the gaming machines at Microsoft?s booth were running nForce 680i motherboards with single GeForce 8800 GTXs, under Windows Vista. The machines were running Crysis and Halo 2, and actually ran reasonably well. Halo 2 was choppy at times and there were some visual bugs with Crysis, but the driver was working and is apparently stable.

 

[Cabages]

So will there be drivers out once Vista launches on the 30th?

Or is all this debate about Vista Beta stuff?

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: Cabages
So will there be drivers out once Vista launches on the 30th?

Or is all this debate about Vista Beta stuff?

The anwser is YES.

If not nVIDIA is in for the bash of their lifetime.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Cabages
So will there be drivers out once Vista launches on the 30th?

Or is all this debate about Vista Beta stuff?

Jan 30th is the official release of Vista Home Basic, Vista Home Premium & Vista Ultimate. It's more of a ribbon cutting ceremony for Vista Business as it's already available in its final, completed form (not Beta).

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: beggerking

WHY would they NEED to use a $400 card for business application development?
Most developers I know (including myself) use integrated cards at work.

Again with the *NEED*... :roll: Does anybody really NEED SLI? Does anybody really NEED phase change cooling setups? Does anybody really NEED an 8800GTX in the first place? The answer, of course, is *NO*.
.

obviously you don't get it. keyword: "business" application on vista for "business". not your consumer /gaming system/app on your consumer grade 8800 card.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: apoppin

nvidia has had months to write that code ... there have been Alpha drivers for Vista and G80 for a long time now ... the beta drivers are OBVIOUSLY already written.

As I have stated/linked many times in this thread, DX10 was just finalized in Dec 06. Or do you expect them to write a driver for beta DX on beta Vista?

yes ... absolutely

just like *every other* company

unless nvidia's team is as *logic challenged* as the thickest of their fans apparently are

 

[josh6079]

wtf Josh, why you can go ahead and give them a call tomorrow and let us know the "good news"?

I would like to buy a copy that is the reason why I called.

I'm not questioning WHY you called, I'm questioning IF you called. Why would you immediately argue that the site I linked was only for pre-ordering but not come out and say that you had to call to find out? Normally if I had to go through the trouble of calling some retailer that was linked, I would acknowledge that when I first claim anything about that link. You on the other hand just said,"You can buy/preorder now, but they won't be shipped until Jan 30, 07" and kept secret the fact that you "called" to find out until being questioned about it. Furthermore someone else's call story runs perpendicular to yours, so the conflicting information and lack of acknowledgment on the sales page has me suspicious about your claims.

WTF are you talking about? you asked " who are consumers?" , i'm answering your question..seriously you need help.

Right, I asked what consumers are and you said, "non-developers".

Therefore the only versions of Vista that are available (legitimately) in your eyes are the versions of Vista "developers" are using.

If that is the case, then only "developers" using Vista and a G80 have the right to complain.

In addition, you claimed that the only versions of Vista available right now (the ones that only "developers" can use) "are for developing, testing, and demo only..."

I asked what could they "develop, test, and demo" without a display driver.

Your answer was: "umm..try another videocard? or default win driver."

We now have developers who are wanting to "develop, test, and demo" using their "developing, testing, and demoing" Vista (the only Vista you think people should have) who are being told that they have to "um..try another videocard or default win driver".

That's my point. Why would you say only "developers" have reason to demand a G80 Vista driver yet also say that they should just use the "default win driver" to do such a task? Why demand a display driver at all if it can be done with a default win driver beggerking?

you are really trolling now. .. why would you need a dedicated video driver when you develope an application for vista BUSINESS?

For the reason BFG10K gave: Because most developers don't like working at 640x480x60Hz while their windows take 10 seconds to resize.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: beggerking

WHY would they NEED to use a $400 card for business application development?
Most developers I know (including myself) use integrated cards at work.

Again with the *NEED*... :roll: Does anybody really NEED SLI? Does anybody really NEED phase change cooling setups? Does anybody really NEED an 8800GTX in the first place? The answer, of course, is *NO*.
.

obviously you don't get it. keyword: "business" application on vista for "business". not your consumer /gaming system/app on your consumer grade 8800 card.

ALL versions of Vista can be used for business applications. ALL versions of Vista can also be used for gaming. The ONLY differences between them are various bells and whistles. The "business" grade Quadro is NOT required in order to develop applications. A "consumer" grade gaming or non-gaming card will work just fine. It's up to the individual to decide which card they want to use in Vista.

Unless there's no driver available, of course.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: josh6079
I'm not questioning WHY you called, I'm questioning IF you called. lalala..

why don't you just call yourself and verify?

If that is the case, then only "developers" using Vista and a G80 have the right to complain.

developers dont "complaint", they write bug reports to microsoft. That is why MS give to them to test, develope, and demo because they have the knowledge to really know the problem rather than just complaint.

Why would you say only "developers" have reason to demand a G80 Vista driver

where did you get that? I never said they had a reason to "demand".. in fact, developers are PART OF MS ITERATIVE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS to ensure reliability of the final product.

 

[josh6079]

Just got of the phone with Microsoft.
According to microsoft the offical launch date is 30th Jan. 2007.

Can you understand that?

So gerrson is a pirate? Members of the official nVidia forums complaining about this issue are all pirates? nVidia is trying to get a driver out BEFORE Vista's "launch" for pirates?

Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla...
FACT:
Microsoft says Windows Vista isn't released yet!

Right, no one is running a legit version of Vista right now. No one...

If Nvidia has shown of a Vista driver for G80 at CES, don't you think there is a good chance that developers have some sort of beta drivers from Nvidia so they CAN develope?

Probably, but that's not the point. The point is beggerking's "developer" specific Vista's are not the only legit Vista's that are available.

According to some people in this thread, you CAN'T game on Vista Business edition. Didn't you know that? I think maybe there's something in the EULA that prohibits it.

lol, no no. Didn't you hear? They took out the DX10 for the Vista Business editions.

WHY would they NEED to use a $400 card for business application development?
Most developers I know (including myself) use integrated cards at work.

Who knows, it doesn't matter. It's not our place to play Ms. Cleo and guess WHY they need it and I will agree with you that the demand for such a situation is probably pretty low and can wait a few weeks, but that hasn't changed the fact that nVidia did it nor that those that they did it to deserve the support. That's what we're saying. nVidia used false advertising. Users with legit versions of both have a right to complain and nVidia has a duty to deliver. Over and done with. Unless certain posters can turn back the clock, there's just nothing that can change that.

let me say this to you again, STOP TROLLING /BSing /Threadcrapping!

How many times are you going to hypocritacilly preach that?

BFG, explain the difference between "Vista ready" vs "Vista Compatible".

lol, so long as you explain to him the difference between the "Reply" button and the "Edit" button. Honestly, trim down your posting, we don't need FOUR of your posts in a row.

As I have stated/linked many times in this thread, DX10 was just finalized in Dec 06. Or do you expect them to write a driver for beta DX on beta Vista?

No, I expect them to have something "Ready" when they say it's "Ready".

I feel like if my post was ignored.
nVIDIA focused on the XP drivers much more since THEY knew Vista wont be available to the general public til jan 30th. By focusing on XP drivers, the G80 launch would be much more solid.

That's why the G80's XP drivers suck, right? Even Xbit commented on their poor quality.

obviously you don't get it. keyword: "business" application on vista for "business". not your consumer /gaming system/app on your consumer grade 8800 card.

Do you have XP Professional? Because you're not a "Professional".

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: Creig
ALL versions of Vista can be used for business applications. ALL versions of Vista can also be used for gaming. The ONLY differences ....

can be, but not "intended for", and may have problem because of the extra features/security in the os. Business version usually has more security/reliability built into it while the consumer versions are built for speed/performance. 100000% of business do not use 8800 and will never use it.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: josh6079
No, I expect them to have something "Ready" when they say it's "Ready".

vista is not out yet and not ready until Jan 30,07
vista is not out yet and not ready until Jan 30,07
vista is not out yet and not ready until Jan 30,07
vista is not out yet and not ready until Jan 30,07
vista is not out yet and not ready until Jan 30,07
vista is not out yet and not ready until Jan 30,07
vista is not out yet and not ready until Jan 30,07
vista is not out yet and not ready until Jan 30,07
vista is not out yet and not ready until Jan 30,07

btw, why don't you verify yourself? call them and ask!
also , ask the store you linked and see if they can ship you a copy now?

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: josh6079
So gerrson is a pirate? Members of the official nVidia forums complaining about this issue are all pirates? nVidia is trying to get a driver out BEFORE Vista's "launch" for pirates?

The people complaining in the nVidia forums are running pre-released consumer copies of Vista.
And it's common sense to get the vista driver out by vista's launch (so I'm not sure what you're trying to imply).

Originally posted by: josh6079Right, no one is running a legit version of Vista right now. No one...

No one is running consumer-released versions of Vista right now. Whether you want to argue if that constitues as legit or not is another topic.

Originally posted by: josh6079Who knows, it doesn't matter. It's not our place to play Ms. Cleo and guess WHY they need it and I will agree with you that the demand for such a situation is probably pretty low and can wait a few weeks, but that hasn't changed the fact that nVidia did it nor that those that they did it to deserve the support. That's what we're saying. nVidia used false advertising. Users with legit versions of both have a right to complain and nVidia has a duty to deliver. Over and done with. Unless certain posters can turn back the clock, there's just nothing that can change that.

Again, to reitterate my earlier points, nVidia and Microsoft take the logical assumption that a.) business owners don't require the latest and greates graphic technology and b.) consumers will buy the consumer version releasing on Jan. 30.

That is neither an irrational or unreasonable assesment, and bolstering otherwise displays a lack of understanding on the industrial aspect on the matter.

Originally posted by: josh6079No, I expect them to have something "Ready" when they say it's "Ready".

I expect them to have something ready for Vista when Vista itself is ready for the market. I believe my expectations are far more realistic than yours (and you do too, but won't admit it).

Originally posted by: josh6079That's why the G80's XP drivers suck, right? Even Xbit commented on their poor quality.

That was a month ago. The latest certified 97.92 seems to fix many of those issues. Surely you knew about that (or perhaps decided to omit that small detail to push your agenda?)

Perhaps if nVidia ignored dev. on the 97.92 so they could push out 100.30 for the few percent of buisness owners, who are questionably running a G8800 in the first place, they wouldn't be as they are now.

Originally posted by: josh6079Do you have XP Professional? Because you're not a "Professional".

The difference is that XP professional is available to consumers. Vista business and the consumer versions are not available to consumers, and won't be until Jan. 30.

I still take the stance of agreeing to disagree, but will not compromise on blatant attacks that are mis-representative at the issue at hand.

Nelsieus

 

[Gamingphreek]

quote:
obviously you don't get it. keyword: "business" application on vista for "business". not your consumer /gaming system/app on your consumer grade 8800 card.


Do you have XP Professional? Because you're not a "Professional".

Completely different nomenclature.

Professional and Home are both intended for consumer. You would have an argument if he were running 2000 Data Center or XP Enterprise Edition or something similar to that.

-Kevin

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: josh6079

This, for instance, is another site that is going to be selling legit versions of the OS tomorrow. - Click


This place is selling the "Home Premium" version NOW and is in quantity, ready to ship.

Josh, can you please call and ask them if these are available to be shipped out NOW?
why are you so reluctant in making this phone call and spend so much time trolling?
make the call Josh. make sure you write down the csr number if they do sell them so we can report to MS.

 

[terpsy]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

quote:
obviously you don't get it. keyword: "business" application on vista for "business". not your consumer /gaming system/app on your consumer grade 8800 card.


Do you have XP Professional? Because you're not a "Professional".

Completely different nomenclature.

Professional and Home are both intended for consumer. You would have an argument if he were running 2000 Data Center or XP Enterprise Edition or something similar to that.

-Kevin

OMG... Let me lift myself up form the floor and stop laughing...

You do know the major difference between Professional and Home is about the same as the difference between the Vista options? Don't you?

Professional has Domain abilities, the same as Vista buisness, and the same as Ultimate (which basically adds the domain functionality as well as Media Center)

The Difference between Business and Home is Media Center (and Business has shadow copy and bitlocker, and Domain ability).

There is nothing different insdse the OS's that makes them run differently. There will be some here running the Business edition at HOME for the Domain use, but have no need
for the Media Center crap-on.

Stop, please.....

NVidia dropped the ball with no Vista driver.. End of story....

No other lies, symantecs, et al can make it appropiate for their neglect of their
consumer base for this card

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: terpsy

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

quote:
obviously you don't get it. keyword: "business" application on vista for "business". not your consumer /gaming system/app on your consumer grade 8800 card.


Do you have XP Professional? Because you're not a "Professional".

Completely different nomenclature.

Professional and Home are both intended for consumer. You would have an argument if he were running 2000 Data Center or XP Enterprise Edition or something similar to that.

-Kevin

OMG... Let me lift myself up form the floor and stop laughing...

You do know the major difference between Professional and Home is about the same as the difference between the Vista options? Don't you?

Professional has Domain abilities, the same as Vista buisness, and the same as Ultimate (which basically adds the domain functionality as well as Media Center)

The Difference between Business and Home is Media Center (and Business has shadow copy and bitlocker, and Domain ability).

There is nothing different insdse the OS's that makes them run differently. There will be some here running the Business edition at HOME for the Domain use, but have no need
for the Media Center crap-on.

Stop, please.....

NVidia dropped the ball with no Vista driver.. End of story....

No other lies, symantecs, et al can make it appropiate for their neglect of their
consumer base for this card

If you're going to be critical, you first need to understand what you're being critical about.

Consumers have the option to buy either XP professional or Home edition. Nobody is saying thre isn't differences between them.

Consumers, however, do not have the option to buy the Vista office edition, or even the consumer edition until Jan. 30.

The argument that consumers can somehow find away around that restriction and purchase Vista office just for the heck of it is not a legitimate argument for the case you and others are trying to make.

Nelsieus

 

[terpsy]

So Businesses cannot buy this card to use?

Is that Nvidia's stand on the matter?

Besides for the fact of do they play games is irrelevant....

Vista is available, not just to businesses but through MSDN, TechNet, etc...

As well as the copies MS had distributed through Beta Testing....

So, no driver from Nvidia is a problem instringent to the them alone....

So, Only home and ultimate editions will be ABLE to install this driver?
They will have a seperate driver for business?

No, it will be the same driver, regardless of level of Vista you own....

that answers everything baout the conversation...

Nvidia is/was not able to complete a driver before the Launch of Vista Home Editions, and should not have mareketed this card as such in November

Would you purchase a car that could only go 35 miles until 3 months later when you at least raise it to the speed limit?

The problem isnot games in Vista, it is the non FULL support of Grpahics available to use on my hardware (1920X1200) as well as more than 16bit color.

Games are the least of my concern, as I already KNOW they will have slower performance than in Windows XP.

I would like to have the Aero interface that this card is TOUTING itself at, as well as full
screen resolution and color.

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I feel like if my post was ignored.
nVIDIA focused on the XP drivers much more since THEY knew Vista wont be available to the general public til jan 30th. By focusing on XP drivers, the G80 launch would be much more solid.

The reason youre not seeing XP drivers as frequent from nVIDIA is because they are working their ass off re writing hundred thousands of codes from scratch (actually 20 million lines of code) for both XP AND Vista. Right now they are probably working as hard as possible to get the most stable driver til Vista is avilable to the general public.

Here take a read again. I wonder if R600 will need seperate drviers as well.
It clearly states that nVIDIA made the decision to focus more the DX9/XP part of their driver becasue they knew 99% of the general public who bought the 8800 series uses XP OS. Its a good decision because if they focused on Vista then many people woudnt be able to use the G80 due to unstable XP drivers. Tough for the others who bought it to try it out on their BETA/RC/Business versions of Vista but this still doesnt mean G80 is incapable of running Vista. They just need more time (i could imagine the amount of caffine the software team is consuming each day) and they have promised to release the driver when Vista becomes available to the general public.

So whining/bitching/arguing doesnt really help the situation at all but rather helping nVIDIA by noting them the bugs/glitches/issues found in the XP driver under certain games. Especially working this with Chris Ray in forums like beyond3d or any other will allow him to directly "talk" with the forceware team about bugs/issues found. At the end of the day more issues/problems are noted and on the list of "to be fixed" i.e the software team can focus on optimising and tweaks to gain extra performance hopefully in the coming months.

From ATs Article:
CES 2007 Part I: Convergence Happened and the Most Impressive Demo of CES

We spoke to NVIDIA to understand why there isn?t a 8800 Vista driver currently and why we won?t see one until Vista?s launch. NVIDIA?s GPU drivers these days are made up of approximately 20 million lines of code, which as a reference point is about the size of Windows NT 4.0.

Because G70 and G80 are radically different architectures, they each require a separate driver. Combine that with the fact that Windows Vista has completely changed the driver interface, similar in magnitude to what happened between Windows 3.1 and 95, and you?ve got a ?perfect storm? of conditions for driver development. The end result is that for Windows Vista, two 20M line drivers have to be completely re-written (one for G80 and one from all previous architectures). In other words, this isn?t a simple port, it?s a radical departure from the way things were written before.

There are other elements of Vista driver development that apparently require more work than before. DirectX 9, DX9 SLI, DX10 and DX10 SLI support is provided through four separate binaries, which increases the complexity of testing and the overall driver itself, whereas there was only a single driver in the past.

Interfaces for HD-DVD and Blu-ray video acceleration requires a lot more code than before, thanks to the support for a protected path for HD video under Vista. Supporting this protected path for HD content decode means that you can?t re-use the video part of your driver when developing a Vista version.

The last major difference between Windows XP and Vista driver development is that the display engine connecting monitors to the GPUs has been completely redone.

Initial investment in driver development under Vista takes up quite a bit of time, and now we understand a little more of why. While it would be nice to have one today, there?s always a tradeoff that has to be made especially when driver work this intense has to be done. Couple that with the recent launch of NVIDIA?s G80 GPU and the decision was made to focus on DX9 and XP drivers in order to make the G80?s launch as solid as possible, and commit to delivering an 8800 driver by Vista?s launch.

When the driver is eventually available NVIDIA expects performance to be at par, slightly slower or slightly faster than the XP driver. What we?ve seen thus far from other Vista drivers is that performance is slower almost entirely across the board. As stability is currently the primary goal for both ATI and NVIDIA, many compiler optimizations and performance tweaks aren?t being used in order to get a good driver out in time for Vista?s launch.

Those looking for NVIDIA?s Vista 8800 GTX driver needn?t look any further than Microsoft?s booth at CES. All of the gaming machines at Microsoft?s booth were running nForce 680i motherboards with single GeForce 8800 GTXs, under Windows Vista. The machines were running Crysis and Halo 2, and actually ran reasonably well. Halo 2 was choppy at times and there were some visual bugs with Crysis, but the driver was working and is apparently stable.

Don't bother.. :disgust:

There should always be a reason to bash NV or AMD/ATI, from the fanboys.. :roll:

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: apoppin

nvidia has had months to write that code ... there have been Alpha drivers for Vista and G80 for a long time now ... the beta drivers are OBVIOUSLY already written.

As I have stated/linked many times in this thread, DX10 was just finalized in Dec 06. Or do you expect them to write a driver for beta DX on beta Vista?

yes ... absolutely

just like *every other* company

unless nvidia's team is as *logic challenged* as the thickest of their fans apparently are

I JUST PROVED YOU WRONG so what are you are still babbling about.. ? I have not seen a single DX10 (not dx9 vista) driver released by any company.
besides, 8800 is currently the only dx10 card available. (aside from possibly intel x3000 which isn't stable even in xp).

 

[josh6079]

The people complaining in the nVidia forums are running pre-released consumer copies of Vista.

"Pre-released?" The versions some are using / have been using are released.

And it's common sense to get the vista driver out by vista's launch (so I'm not sure what you're trying to imply).

I know you're not sure, so I'll tell you. I'm implying that there are versions of Vista that *have been* released and *have been* sold and *are* being used.

No one is running consumer-released versions of Vista right now.

Yes they are. A person is a consumer, whether they are buying for their business, buying for their home, or both it doesn't matter.

Whether you want to argue if that constitues as legit or not is another topic.

It isn't another topic. It *is* legit, especially when both products are bought and paid for through valid sources.

Again, to reitterate my earlier points, nVidia and Microsoft take the logical assumption that...

Exactly. All they did was make an assumption and were wrong. Obviously there are people who have both and are upset and it is nVidia's duty to support what they said they would. Are they trying to do that? Yes. Should they have already been able to do that? By what their own boxes say, Yes.

It was a *logical* assumption on their part, but that doesn't mean they didn't engage in false advertising by assuming the best, experiencing the worst.

That is neither an irrational or unreasonable assesment, and bolstering otherwise displays a lack of understanding on the industrial aspect on the matter.

Sure, it was "logical". But so was the complaint that someone with Vista and a G80 should be able to use the card that was advertised for that OS. I can see both logics, and I agree that both are easy to understand, but when you factor in how nVidia advertised it's "readiness" for said OS and didn't deliver, that's false advertising plain and simple. Bolstering otherwise displays a lack of understanding of common sense.

You understand this though Nelsieus, as you have said that there are a select few who do reserve the right to complain:

Again, Vista is only available to business owners. They have the right to complain. Any business owners here?

I'm not saying that their situation is popular, just that it is warranted and valid.

I expect them to have something ready for Vista when Vista itself is ready for the market.

You yourself have said that the select few who are in this Catch 22 "have the right to complain". Now you're saying that they don't?

I believe my expectations are far more realistic than yours (and you do too, but won't admit it).

What are your expectations since they change every page?

That was a month ago. The latest certified 97.92 seems to fix many of those issues. Surely you knew about that (or perhaps decided to omit that small detail to push your agenda?)

Really? do the 97.92's fix the SLi issues? From what Anandtech's own Gary says, SLI for the G80's is still a mess. Even with XP.

The difference is that XP professional is available to consumers.

As is certain versions of Vista. You've admitted this yourself previously.

Vista business and the consumer versions are not available to consumers...

By that logic your accusing certain members on these forums running their Vista of piracy. If people like gerrson are not "normal consumers" then perhaps you should define exactly what a "normal consumer" is.

I still take the stance of agreeing to disagree, but will not compromise on blatant attacks that are mis-representative at the issue at hand.

The only thing I find "mis-representative" are your flip-flopping comments.

You say only certain Vista holders "have the right to complain" but also argue that nVidia didn't false advertise. Why do those people have a right to complain if nVidia *didn't* false advertise?

Josh, can you please call and ask them if these are available to be shipped out NOW?

Can you please ship me your cell phone with free long distance so I don't get charged? I find it rather redundant to pay for an argument. That and another report is conflicting with yours and the information you're relaying is no where to be found on the sales page nor any page that you are taken through when purchasing the product. I went as far into that site as I could to buy that product until I was one click away from purchasing it and no where did it ever warn me of not shipping immediately. Bad site? Maybe. But I believe that you are concocting false "evidence."

 

[terpsy]

Maybe that site runs Vista sales the same way Nvidia support goes for the 8800's...

Order it now, but you can't have it until January 30th

 

[josh6079]

This site is selling the Home Premium edition and claims in big letters at the top: "(Shipping Mid January)" which is before Jan. 30th.

This site has 999 Home Premium versions in stock and when you purchase it automatically gives you the FedEx ground 1-7 days shipping, still putting a buyer before the Jan. 30th "launch" date.

This one ships the same day. Home Premium version ready to ship right now. They even give you a little key as to what the "Sun" means when you click on it.

beggerking's phone is gonna be busy.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: apoppin

nvidia has had months to write that code ... there have been Alpha drivers for Vista and G80 for a long time now ... the beta drivers are OBVIOUSLY already written.

As I have stated/linked many times in this thread, DX10 was just finalized in Dec 06. Or do you expect them to write a driver for beta DX on beta Vista?

yes ... absolutely

just like *every other* company

unless nvidia's team is as *logic challenged* as the thickest of their fans apparently are

I JUST PROVED YOU WRONG so what are you are still babbling about.. ? I have not seen a single DX10 (not dx9 vista) driver released by any company.
besides, 8800 is currently the only dx10 card available. (aside from possibly intel x3000 which isn't stable even in xp).

you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about

no other major company is in nvidia's position [well, maybe creative ... and they have had beta drivers, i believe] advertising "Vista Ready" when it is not [without at least a 'disclaimer']

. . . anyway there isn't any important HW i have that that will not work with Vista ... at least thru RC2 ... all the recent ATi cards work fine ... letsee ... looking at my Sapphire AGP x1950p box i see under Supported OS : "Vista"



oh, checking it out even Creative has beta Vista drivers for their recent HW



otoh, the 8800 is basically *unusable* to it's current Vista ["volume licensing"] customers even though it is advertised as Vista Ready.

... and i dont think i see creative advertising "Vista Ready" on their boxes withOUT any disclaimer ... although i could be wrong
:roll:

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: josh6079
This site is selling the Home Premium edition and claims in big letters at the top: "(Shipping Mid January)" which is before Jan. 30th.

This site has 999 Home Premium versions in stock and when you purchase it automatically gives you the FedEx ground 1-7 days shipping, still putting a buyer before the Jan. 30th "launch" date.

This one ships the same day. Home Premium version ready to ship right now. They even give you a little key as to what the "Sun" means when you click on it.

beggerking's phone is gonna be busy.

I love that last source. MacMall "The #1 Apple Direct Reseller" is selling Windows operating systems.