I Now finallly bought the sens HD800 and ordered the JH13 IEMs yesturday

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: smokenjoe
I will second how hard it can be at times to get good info out of Head Fi at times. Sometimes the tinfoil brigade so outnumber the sane that they look like the reasonable ones. There is a lot of good info buteven for an extreme technophile like me good info is very hard to sift out.

There are stores that actualy carry these things though they are hard to find. Any good receiver should be able to play the headphones though some better than others it should be designed for the 300 ohm. A large part is simple taste. Portable amps and players are another story. Only the apples and perhaps the cowans have the power to power the good headphones. The Apples are far too popular for the audiosnobs and most of the people that hate them never bothered to do a critical listening test. I dont have to listen to them to know that they suck oh yea right.... they have nearly identical audio components as some of the audio snob systems. No it is not going to sound as good as a identical system with matched parts and isolated components but it hardly sounds bad just because it is popular.

One good source of info ironically is a DIY site much more down to earth. They do get technical but often also give resources/pics to connect the dots.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9

Note your computer has a DAC usually and there are headphone amp sound cards- I ordered one myself. Also note that tube amps have a huge following and the parts are not at all hard to get. I cant comment on the sound though I have not heard a good one with good speakers. There are some good technical reasons they could be better it is all in the design and details though.

Realize that balanced headphones dont do a bit of good without a balanced amp and could cause worse sound on an unbalanced amp with more noise.

I have grado and modified Yamaha orthodynamic headphones. I have reburned my 320 MP3 to Flac AAC and apple lossless.

I too have been thinking of converting at first to 320 and now feel sorry I gave up many of my CDs and cannot compress to flac I think with great earphones it is obviously a better way to go with huge hare drives on the Ipds.

But you cannot get flac from 320 the data is gone from the 320. It was not made smaller it was taken oot

 

[TungFree]

I have looked for a review of the Symphony2 but only Jan Meier's description is available. 3 times I searched and nothing comes up for a review. well too late I bought it already. but till it gets here would be mice to have some input.

 

[ivan2]

what you gonna do with the 950, can i have them? =D

 

[TungFree]

950? are you in the right thread?

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: TungFree
I have looked for a review of the Symphony2 but only Jan Meier's description is available. 3 times I searched and nothing comes up for a review. well too late I bought it already. but till it gets here would be mice to have some input.

On the last page of this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/...fo-impressions-353839/ , Jan mentions that the only difference with the new version is that he reworked the digital receiver stage to be more resistant to SPDIF drop-outs. So any review of the original Corda Symphony, bar any complaints about digital interruptions, should be accurate.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Originally posted by: TungFree
I have looked for a review of the Symphony2 but only Jan Meier's description is available. 3 times I searched and nothing comes up for a review. well too late I bought it already. but till it gets here would be mice to have some input.

On the last page of this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/...fo-impressions-353839/ , Jan mentions that the only difference with the new version is that he reworked the digital receiver stage to be more resistant to SPDIF drop-outs. So any review of the original Corda Symphony, bar any complaints about digital interruptions, should be accurate.

Once again I searched for Corda Symphony, and found no one who heard one and had something to say about what they had heard, just lots of negative people casting remarks like, his other amps were ordinary unspectacular. No one had anything tom say about the symphony to review it or say what it sounded like with a fine ear speakers, the symphony has nothing at all other than Jan's own description. I read every link that came up and saw nothing at all.

If anyone finds something please do post it.

 

[TungFree]

earlier I said 'Now I will go check out the Ultimate Ears UE11 Pro you suggested.'
after all te reviews I am lead to believe that the JH13 beat the UE11.
Yesterday I had an Aquitaine visit me, he told me that the UE11 can be adopted for another person for about 200 dollars and that the cables to the headphone are replaceable, and that alone if true has me changing my mind from getting the JH13 which cannot be adopted to another and I did not see any link that showed me the wire are replaceable with another set.

Can any one comment on this? I did see replaceable wires on the UE site but nothing about reusing the head set to build it up for another person for about 200 bux anyone read that to be so?

 

[TungFree]

I totally forgot to ask if anyone had experience in using the base if the ipod to amplify the sound or if a Cowan Mp3 player has advantages over the sound of an Ipod when amplified with the sound from the base of the Ipod? The same friend that came over yesterday, suggested that no high end audiophile uses the Ipod or teh Zune they all use eithr the Cowon or the Sansa Clip

Now I have never listened to an Ipod but heard online it being said thatb is is Gosh to knock Ipod or Zune and that actually they have fine sounds. I do not know I only know the Zune sounded great with the Sure SE 530 but was missing some base when other earphones had better base with the Zune but overall muddy veiled sounds with that better base. like the wireles Boze sound isolating earphones.

I need to add that I already bought a $55 cable that goes from the Ipod to the 3MOVE portable amplifier. and I love having a huge 120 gog storage. But the Cowon appears on the computer screen, like a hard drive, so it is very easy to transfer files quickly without hours of synchronizing.

I already sold the Zune just that my ear mold fitting practitioner said I had to do at least 3 ear flushes with wax dissolving medication, over the weekend, and that the left ear looked a bit inflamed, both ears needed flushing, so I will not be ordering the IEM immediately,maybe on Wednesday or Thursday. And this is Saturday.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: TungFree
earlier I said 'Now I will go check out the Ultimate Ears UE11 Pro you suggested.'
after all te reviews I am lead to believe that the JH13 beat the UE11.
Yesterday I had an Aquitaine visit me, he told me that the UE11 can be adopted for another person for about 200 dollars and that the cables to the headphone are replaceable, and that alone if true has me changing my mind from getting the JH13 which cannot be adopted to another and I did not see any link that showed me the wire are replaceable with another set.

Can any one comment on this? I did see replaceable wires on the UE site but nothing about reusing the head set to build it up for another person for about 200 bux anyone read that to be so?

The JH-13s have a removable cable as well (I don't know of any customs that don't). I'm not sure if you can have them refitted for another person, you'd have to contact Jerry Harvey Audio about that. I'd expect it'd be about the same as for the UEs. They aren't going to advertise remolds for other people as its not something they want to offer (they'd greatly prefer people put down the full amount for their own pair).

It is possible to use other applications instead of iTunes to sync your iPod (MediaMonkey I think can sync with just about any player).

In about a week there should be new iPods as well (which will likely only further frustrate you as early reports are always all over the place as far as sound quality goes). Also, the ZuneHD should be available (word is it should sound at least as good as the previous Zune and possibly better). No one really has any idea bout the new iPods other than they'll probably have cameras.

As for portable amps, I'd personally wait for the Ray Samuels Audio Shadow or the Headamp Pico Slim, both address one of the key problems with portable amps (namely channel imbalance at low levels, which is generally what you'd use for IEMs). They should also offer even better portability (both should be very thin and fairly small overall).

I will give you some extra warning when it comes to reading about people's opinions on portable products. More than any other audio segment, you see a wide variety of diehard fanboys. You'll get the ones that think all iPods suck. The ones that have to use Rockbox. The ones that have to use amps. The ones that will spend as much on the interconnects as they will on the headphones, amp, or player itself (as in $250 for a 6 inch cable). You'll get the I only listen to FLAC/LAME MP3/Ogg/APE/whatever people. The I need EQ. The I can't stand it even offering EQ. The I need _______ feature so it sucks if it doesn't have it. The I can't stand iTunes/Zune software people.

I know you want more actual feedback, but fact is, there are very few people who have enough experience to really give you proper advice. As for the JH-13 and UE 11, read this: Three Flagship Custom IEM. The person who posted that is one of the few people that I feel has enough experience to comment on sound quality of products. He's heard (and regularly listens to) a wide variety from very high end stuff to low end products. In fact, I'd recommend checking out his sig (tells you how to find his reviews). I think he'd be able to help you a lot.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: TungFree
earlier I said 'Now I will go check out the Ultimate Ears UE11 Pro you suggested.'
after all te reviews I am lead to believe that the JH13 beat the UE11.
Yesterday I had an Aquitaine visit me, he told me that the UE11 can be adopted for another person for about 200 dollars and that the cables to the headphone are replaceable, and that alone if true has me changing my mind from getting the JH13 which cannot be adopted to another and I did not see any link that showed me the wire are replaceable with another set.

Can any one comment on this? I did see replaceable wires on the UE site but nothing about reusing the head set to build it up for another person for about 200 bux anyone read that to be so?

The JH-13s have a removable cable as well (I don't know of any customs that don't). I'm not sure if you can have them refitted for another person, you'd have to contact Jerry Harvey Audio about that. I'd expect it'd be about the same as for the UEs. They aren't going to advertise remolds for other people as its not something they want to offer (they'd greatly prefer people put down the full amount for their own pair).

It is possible to use other applications instead of iTunes to sync your iPod (MediaMonkey I think can sync with just about any player).

In about a week there should be new iPods as well (which will likely only further frustrate you as early reports are always all over the place as far as sound quality goes). Also, the ZuneHD should be available (word is it should sound at least as good as the previous Zune and possibly better). No one really has any idea bout the new iPods other than they'll probably have cameras.

As for portable amps, I'd personally wait for the Ray Samuels Audio Shadow or the Headamp Pico Slim, both address one of the key problems with portable amps (namely channel imbalance at low levels, which is generally what you'd use for IEMs). They should also offer even better portability (both should be very thin and fairly small overall).

I will give you some extra warning when it comes to reading about people's opinions on portable products. More than any other audio segment, you see a wide variety of diehard fanboys. You'll get the ones that think all iPods suck. The ones that have to use Rockbox. The ones that have to use amps. The ones that will spend as much on the interconnects as they will on the headphones, amp, or player itself (as in $250 for a 6 inch cable). You'll get the I only listen to FLAC/LAME MP3/Ogg/APE/whatever people. The I need EQ. The I can't stand it even offering EQ. The I need _______ feature so it sucks if it doesn't have it. The I can't stand iTunes/Zune software people.

I know you want more actual feedback, but fact is, there are very few people who have enough experience to really give you proper advice. As for the JH-13 and UE 11, read this: Three Flagship Custom IEM. The person who posted that is one of the few people that I feel has enough experience to comment on sound quality of products. He's heard (and regularly listens to) a wide variety from very high end stuff to low end products. In fact, I'd recommend checking out his sig (tells you how to find his reviews). I think he'd be able to help you a lot.

What a wonderful awesome review you pointed me to, it was everything I wanted to hear, it was stunning in its time spent and the details blow by blow revealing an eay decision and why one was making such a decision, it also touched all the mps that worked well with theses IEMs and cast a huge floodlight on the HD800. I had been wondering how the HD800 compare to the Stax and he not only brought that up but also the fact tat they are a hair away from the stax and $4000 rigs with only a 1/3 of the price with the JH13
He gave us a picture that the JH 13 was the front row of a symphony orchestra the UE11 a bit back into the 5th or farther row and the ES3X is like sitting on a bech with Diana Cral while she sings and plays the piano and every nuance of her voice, but as an all arround IEM the JH13 took it all.

I have already bought my amps from Jan Meier and the HD800. I bought the 3MOVE for outside my home and the symphony2 for home use and I bought the cabe conecting the Ipod from its base to the 3MOVE portable amp of his they should be here in less than 3 weeks or possibly in 2 weeks. Because my ears need attention I cannot yet get fitted for the molds but I will purchase the JH13, How can I not after reading what he wrote...

 

[Project86]

I am also very experienced with high end audio, both home and headphone. I have tried the JH13 (my brother owns them but they fit me ok for 20 minutes or so before getting uncomfortable). I would like to offer an alternate approach on this.

I have heard the JH13, Ultimate Ears UE-Hybrid, UE4pro, UE10pro and UE11pro, Westone ES3x, Livewires, EARinc Z5, AlienEars C3, and a few other customs. When the fit is right, they all sound excellent, with each having it's own slightly unique sound signature. I do not think you would be disappointed with any of them; even the lower end "budget" models. All of them sound superior to the flagship universal in ear monitors such as Shure SE530, UE TripleFi 10, and Westone 3/UM3x.

I suggest you order the Alien Ears C3 Pro. It's a triple driver custom with detachable cable, that costs $375 with free shipping. They have excellent customer service and even offer a 10 day refund option: listen to them and if you don't like them, return them. You are only out $20. Check Headfi if you like, many people are very happy with them and some have compared them favorably to some of the other high end UE/Westone offerings.

Your other option is Livewires who offers dual and triple driver models. Their customer service is a bit questionable, and they seem to take about a month to finish the dual driver model, or even longer for triples. The upside is that they also sound excellent, cost even less for the duals, and offer a 30 day trial. If you want to save yourself a hassle, maybe try the AlienEars first. I assure you that they are in the same league as the others.

Another new developement now is that companies overseas like Unique Melody offer what they call reshelling service. Basically you send them your existing earphone (your SE530 is an option) and your audiologists impressions. They split open the case and insert the drivers into a custom mold just like JH13/UE10/etc. They also convert the cable part to use the standard replacable cable just like UE/Westone/JH/Alienears. Best of all the price is very low due to exchange rates: I'm not sure exactly for SE530, but my UE SuperFi5pro dual driver reshell was only $88 plus shipping (which is not exactly cheap,$30 or so). I figure your SE530 reshell should easily be under $200 total. They do offer a free refit in the 1st month if there is an issue. Another plus for this is that they can reshell existing customs. So if you end up with UE11 or JH13 and want to sell some day, the buyer can send them here with impressions and reshell to fit them. I don't know how much that costs but it can't be too much.

The downside to this is that communications can be tricky because they are overseas. Another place that does this with a better website is null-audio.com it costs a bit more but might be easier to deal with. They want $179 before shipping to reshell the SE530, and they give you one of their nice custom cables too. Also the wait might be long because of shipping.

I know that's a lot to think about, but surely it seems better to dip your feet in and try a cheaper custom than to blindly go all out on a $1k+ option that you have never tried. You might even find that you hate the feeling of a custom; some people do.

If I were you, I would contact one of the remolding services and feel it out. If you don't get a good vibe, go with the AlienEars. Either way you are not out too much money and have an excellent sounding IEM (from my personal experience).

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: Project86
I am also very experienced with high end audio, both home and headphone. I have tried the JH13 (my brother owns them but they fit me ok for 20 minutes or so before getting uncomfortable). I would like to offer an alternate approach on this.

I have heard the JH13, Ultimate Ears UE-Hybrid, UE4pro, UE10pro and UE11pro, Westone ES3x, Livewires, EARinc Z5, AlienEars C3, and a few other customs. When the fit is right, they all sound excellent, with each having it's own slightly unique sound signature. I do not think you would be disappointed with any of them; even the lower end "budget" models. All of them sound superior to the flagship universal in ear monitors such as Shure SE530, UE TripleFi 10, and Westone 3/UM3x.

I suggest you order the Alien Ears C3 Pro. It's a triple driver custom with detachable cable, that costs $375 with free shipping. They have excellent customer service and even offer a 10 day refund option: listen to them and if you don't like them, return them. You are only out $20. Check Headfi if you like, many people are very happy with them and some have compared them favorably to some of the other high end UE/Westone offerings.

Your other option is Livewires who offers dual and triple driver models. Their customer service is a bit questionable, and they seem to take about a month to finish the dual driver model, or even longer for triples. The upside is that they also sound excellent, cost even less for the duals, and offer a 30 day trial. If you want to save yourself a hassle, maybe try the AlienEars first. I assure you that they are in the same league as the others.

Another new development now is that companies overseas like Unique Melody offer what they call reshelling service. Basically you send them your existing earphone (your SE530 is an option) and your audiologists impressions. They split open the case and insert the drivers into a custom mold just like JH13/UE10/etc. They also convert the cable part to use the standard replacable cable just like UE/Westone/JH/Alienears. Best of all the price is very low due to exchange rates: I'm not sure exactly for SE530, but my UE SuperFi5pro dual driver reshell was only $88 plus shipping (which is not exactly cheap,$30 or so). I figure your SE530 reshell should easily be under $200 total. They do offer a free refit in the 1st month if there is an issue. Another plus for this is that they can reshell existing customs. So if you end up with UE11 or JH13 and want to sell some day, the buyer can send them here with impressions and reshell to fit them. I don't know how much that costs but it can't be too much.

The downside to this is that communications can be tricky because they are overseas. Another place that does this with a better website is null-audio.com it costs a bit more but might be easier to deal with. They want $179 before shipping to reshell the SE530, and they give you one of their nice custom cables too. Also the wait might be long because of shipping.

I know that's a lot to think about, but surely it seems better to dip your feet in and try a cheaper custom than to blindly go all out on a $1k+ option that you have never tried. You might even find that you hate the feeling of a custom; some people do.

If I were you, I would contact one of the remolding services and feel it out. If you don't get a good vibe, go with the AlienEars. Either way you are not out too much money and have an excellent sounding IEM (from my personal experience).

Gee where were you 2 weeks ago I sold my sure SE 530 and, I sold my Zune, because it had complications fitting a wire into its base and activating the zune. They do have for about $80 or $70 such a wire for the Zune but it has to be hooked up to a battery, like a car battery so it has to charge and that activates it. That means I cannot take a walk outside my car with it or outside my home, and always have to be plugged into power. Had I known about rewiring and that then the base of the Sure 530 would improve the Bass I may have considered doing the refit, because I sold the Zune 120 and the SE530PHS both for $440 and lost quite a bit of money on the deal, I had bought them both 5 months ago or 6.

I wonder if you had read the review Fantastic Review posted 2 days ago here by darkswordsman17

I do love your post and the link I speak of agrees with you largely and then goes a huge step beyond, he also shows how dependent these IEMs are on a matching amplifier and all the Mp3 players like Iphones and such may not need any amplification at all and sound absolutely supreme. It was a review that took him several months to do because he matched each head set with near a dozen amplifiers and after seeing what each amp contributed to each IEM he then came to his final conclusion that actually is stunning. He compares the JH13 to The Stax ELS 02 that they are on that same level and at 1/3 the price for a over $4000 rig.

everyone who read it was in awe of his blow by blow shear details that point to a no brainier decision You would get the Westone ES3x if you like the exaggerated but compelling, intimacy of sitting on a bench of the piano with the entertainer, you would get the JH13 if you enjoy the totally clean and fantastically great IEM over the entire range as if sitting in row 1 of the concert hall ( usually the very best seats) and the UE11 if you like the feeling of a backed off midrange, being a bit back in the 5th row and did not mind having to be careful to select only a hand full of amplifiers for it. The JH 13 was great with near all amps. Though he loved falling asleep with the Westone ES3x, and was fond of them after living with all three his favorite choice in the end, was the JH13, but owning now all three, he has no intention to sell any of the three, and spends most of the time listening to JH13


I have to add that I cannot rewrite the spirit and the wonderful choice of the sequences in which he chose to write his review.
But it was the best review I had ever read by anyone on any piece of equipment and all the gear that affects its performance.

So it becomes clear also what amp you need or if you need none if the player is right.
The difference between your personal and very rare and extensive listening was that he crammed it all into three months time and had all the amps and all three IEMs and at times he reset his ears by walking away and letting them rest for a time if it made no sense as to what he was hearing, and that resetting of his ears gave a most accurate re hearing for the concentrated explanations based on endless rechecking of each IEM to the range of amplifiers he had before him. He is a professional reviewer and his language and logic is too impressive to depict even here now.

Once more I thank you for your contribution and invite you to coment more on anyone's input since your experience is parallel to that of the reviewer I mentioned above.

 

[TungFree]

I have repeatedly set up appointments to be measured and create molds for my ears to send to JH Audio. Each time I had to return because my right ear had some redness and the wax needed repeated cleaning. Today is Monday, Wednesday I am returning to be fitted for the molds and will see if the redness has healed.

The Symphony and 3MOVE with the HD800 should be arriving soon from Dr. Meier in Germany. There are going to be duty charges for importing, and I will let you all know how they all sound to me. The JH13 will most likely be ordered on Thursday because I need to package the molds and the order form with the details they are asking for. I will have the package ready if the ear has healed and fitted for the molds, on Wednesday evening, and will ship the next day.

I assume there is going to be 7 day shipping to them, and 3-4 weeks to receive the JH13, and a few days to live with them, before I can comment on what I purchased.

On October 14 I shall be 74. would be sweet to have them all on my birthday that is exactly a month from today the 14th of September

 

[TungFree]

JUST GOT mY HD800!!! only listened without amp directly fronm my ABIT i35P-e Mother board if I recall it correctly.
The sound of male voice singing is totally OPEN no vails yje harmonmics of h=guitars are outstanding I am thrilled, I have the symphony unpacked and I know the base will be improved but not much improvement needed and no Doc yet

More to come soon

 

[uhohs]

congrats on the hd800's.

maybe one day, after the street price goes down dramatically i'll own a pair too.
or i'll keep waiting for a good deal on a k1000.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: uhohs
congrats on the hd800's.

maybe one day, after the street price goes down dramatically i'll own a pair too.
or i'll keep waiting for a good deal on a k1000.

You make me feel guilty for having saved my hard earned bux LOl

 

[TungFree]

I have listened now for three days.

The Meier Symphony2 Amp must be some clean open amp and it excites the full range of the HD800 I sure never heard such moving renditions of drums of foreign countries where the drums are the main music. I still have not found my Bach Organ fuge. but if it is missing anything it is possibly in the very bottom base. Let me Qualify thet, I do not miss anything while I listen, it has such incredible clean open sound without any vailing, and I had heard that these are not Bass earphones, but that is what I am answering. If it is missing anything it may be that the Bass is not one that projects Authority LOL but it has pressure and a feel of bass.m The rest there s nothing I mean nothing I want to complain about and just live in pleasure land of ears in Hawaii paradise. The Bass makes itself known, it is not absent it is not competing with the rest of the fantasticly outstanding imaging clarity and wide space, I agree that these earphones are ones you can curl up with for 3-8 hours and just smile smile and smile...

More when I find the Mach organ.

I went to the hearing center and was fitted and came out with three molds the first right one must have had a bubble and she redid it and it came out perfectly. She asked for $30 when we first agreed, but I slipped her another $10 so I will send them off tomorrow after school at thhe main [post office and look for the right envelope in which to send the little box she put them into.

Saline Dion's songs are supper, every bit as good as the fine speakers I heard her on except the space opens wider deeper and higher with invisible cathedral ceilings of nothing but open space....and I am playing the amp at barely 9 o'clock soft as I can to feel excitement. The power of love, it's all coming back to me now... The amp is revealing the recording imperfections and the space and her awesome voice..

 

[TungFree]

I may need to start a new thread for which Mp3 player to get. I like the idea of Cowon's ability to be like a hard drive and just easily change files on it. But the SSD storage devices on the horizon I wonder what to get am once more open to suggestions and links to other forums if already solved there or even here on anadtech.

The HD800 piano quickness of slamming fingers, and explosive trumpets and crescendo of symphonis with the brass are stunning. No fatigue on ears. I can lay my head on the pillow and listen without the earphones being affected without discumfort, the way the Koss Electrostatics were uncomfortable reclined. Funny how the old Jazz of the 30ies, 40ies and 50ies sounds so tinny without harmonics and luster

 

[TungFree]

Just got the new JH13. The JH13 is smoking the HD800. The feeling of weightlessness as if I have no head phones and the music of 320 sounding as good as an outdoor performance in the first row outide totally no vailing I thought the HD800 could not be much improved but the JH13 sound as good as the Stax Electrostatics.... a wide sound to the right and left so so clean and this is 320 compression ohh my Gawd....

 

[TungFree]

I wanted to thank the gentleman who suggested I get a desktop.

The desktop Symphony2 from Meier sure is clean to listen after listening to the 3MOVE portable as if listening to 256 then to 320. with the 3MOVE I wonder if it can play cleaner from the CD and then the Symphony2 shows me that yes it can.

Now mind you most of the wonderful sound is from the JH13 but the 3MOVE holds it back just an weebit and makes me glad that when I come home I will be listening to it not theh 3MOVE. But with the #MOVE it is still the best sound I have heard until the Symphony2 I purchased the AMP3 and it will ship on the 5th so I will have it on the 10th or so hard to tell in Hawaii. Yes with the symphony2 It is so natural mmmmmm

 

[Kaido]

I just came in to bow before the HD800's. Cheers!

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: Kaido
I just came in to bow before the HD800's. Cheers!

The HD800 is a super fantastic ear speakers set just an an amazing head set, but the JH13 is in a class by itself other than the Stax Electrostatic earphones which cost above $4000 with the head amp, and which is about the same as the JH13 in quality, there is nothing that touches the JH13. After prolonged use of JH13 inside the ears I am glad to have the HD800 to change the ear feelings and still get great music.