I Now finallly bought the sens HD800 and ordered the JH13 IEMs yesturday

[TungFree]

I have many questions below and need lots of help. I own a Koss Electrostatic ESP950, and Sure 530 ear buds.
I have at home also a 200 watts/ch RMS Mackintosh amp and preamp Old 1960ies Quad ELS, BMW DM6 Tonnoy Windsor and ESS Heil elite tweeters and small bookshelf BMW 805.
So I do buy at garage sales and used stuff cause otherwise I could not own them LOL.


I got the Sens HD800. I Sold the Sure 530 ear-buds, will use JH13 in my truck for 2 hours a day, or at garage sales. Got the 3MOVE from Meier Audio and the cable that runs from base of Ipod to the 3MOVE for the JH13 but am not sold on the IPod may want a Cowon.

I listened with the sold Zune 120 at 11 volume when I had 20 tops. Could I use the Cowon or one like it without an amp and get the best out of the JH13?

Now to the HD800 They are here now . At home I use the Koss for computer mp3s 320 compression.
The Koss has an amp.
The JH13 would be used most likely in the truck. At home the HD800 smoke the Koss ESP 950.
So the Koss will go into its case to sleep.


So what MP3 player should I purchase in addition to the HD800 and the JH13?
I suppose at garage sales I could use the JH13 and leave the HD800 at home.

I am 73 and my ears are great for my age but untested with hearing gear. I am very active, and youthful.
2 years ago, I was going to get the Stax 007 Mark II, but it was $3500 to over $4000 and I opted for the Koss ESP 950 because they also have a lifetime warranty on them. Now it is HD800

Are there any MP3 players that use SSD what is in the Cowon S9 32gig?

My total music collection exceeded over 260 gigs.

 

[Thump553]

Grats to you, Tung. I'm about 20 years behind you and I hope my ears will be that good at your age. I'm also drooling over your stereo rig.

Headfi is the place to search for info, as you have already done. I have a pair of Senn 600s and a simple, low cost CMOY amp satisfies me for well under $100. I'd browse around headfi, find who seems to be a reputable hobbyist-builder these days, and get something cheap built to your specs.

One caveat-the HD600 is a full size, moderately heavy (but comfortable) pair of headphones and I imagine the HD 800s are similar physically. I use mine mostly in a stationary seated position and am not sure at all whether I'd be comfortable with them walking around, etc (jogging would definately be out).

As far as a DAC goes, why don't you wait until you see if you need one? I listen to FLAC files (lossless > superior to mp3s) and never felt the need to spring for the extra bucks for an external DAC. If you are the type that can easily hear a difference between a 320 bit rate MP3 and a CD track, then I's say maybe its worth it to you to spend the bucks on a fancy DAC, otherwise don't bother.

PS-are headphones for the driver legal in your state? They aren't in mine, and the Senns would be awful easy for a policeman to spot.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: Thump553
Grats to you, Tung. I'm about 20 years behind you and I hope my ears will be that good at your age. I'm also drooling over your stereo rig.

Headfi is the place to search for info, as you have already done. I have a pair of Senn 600s and a simple, low cost CMOY amp satisfies me for well under $100. I'd browse around headfi, find who seems to be a reputable hobbyist-builder these days, and get something cheap built to your specs.

One caveat-the HD600 is a full size, moderately heavy (but comfortable) pair of headphones and I imagine the HD 800s are similar physically. I use mine mostly in a stationary seated position and am not sure at all whether I'd be comfortable with them walking around, etc (jogging would definately be out).

As far as a DAC goes, why don't you wait until you see if you need one? I listen to FLAC files (lossless > superior to mp3s) and never felt the need to spring for the extra bucks for an external DAC. If you are the type that can easily hear a difference between a 320 bit rate MP3 and a CD track, then I's say maybe its worth it to you to spend the bucks on a fancy DAC, otherwise don't bother.
PS-are headphones for the driver legal in your state? They aren't in mine, and the Senns would be awful easy for a policeman to spot.

Several states have tried and failed to ban cell phones while driving, including Arizona, Kansas, Maryland, Nevada, Oklahoma, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. Others, such as Hawaii, Indiana, Nebraska, North Dakota and Texas, are still debating legislation. And a number of countries outside the U.S. have also enacted restrictions on the practice.

I will need to watch that. As to The Dac that is a great suggestion, I do not find much missing with the Koss Electrostatics when I listen to a very fine recording, of Dixiland Jazz CD or 320 mp3 they are fantastic, The Sure 530 is so good that I only feel I am missing the bottom end when I compare a Mp3 or a CD, otherwise they are incredibly open unbelievable punch and I would love someone to tell me how the HD800 compare to them. Neither the Koss nor the sure are compared by anyone, and I thnk I have read all the reviews available on thge HD800.

As to the amp I will look around for an inexpansive portable one used if I can and see what it does. Then I will try to listen to them via my Mackintosh amplifier and see what it sounds like. I am assuming I will be able to hear music even unamplified with Tne HD800 until I get an amp.

HeadFi was an overwhelm because I want to order soemthing to amplify the HD800 and at first I want the best, then I see the prices and I have to compromise and see what is more price appealing. One thing for sure no one regrests getting the HD800 and those who know the Senheiser sound and dislike it do not get it. But I never heard the senheisers. Once the HD600 was compared to My Koss eslectrotstics, as being slightly superior if the koss used the Wall wart but on the superior side when using a battery or a Selenco regulated power supply which I had purchased and cannot hear any difference with the 100 dollar Power supply I had purchased. So it sits in my closet.

But I do want to know if anyone had listened to the HD800 with an inexpensive portable amp and was happy with it.

By the way what sort of music do you listen to? I am very eclectic on my taste but am not too much into the 70ies to present excluding some performers. I enjot Jazz classical, Baroque, Opera, falk, dixiland, blue grass, I love Laurie Lewis and Kate wolf, The Gypsy Kings, Flamenco, middle eastern, russia's old folk music, Bulgarian National quire Ladies, Klezmer, and getting interested in Classical Asian.
Today I am re burning 250 CDs in 320 which a long time ago were bernt at 128 and a pitiful sounding at 128, it will take me a week or less to do that. I did about 500 Cds at 192 and they are Ok but I may redo them during Xmas at 320.

Maybe this will help recommendation of amp.

PS is the CMOY amp a desktop or portable? and when you tell me what you listen to it will help too.

 

[videogames101]

Ask Head-fi, I don't think anyone here deals with expensive reference class stuff like the HD800s. All I know is that they have 300 ohm resistance, are take some serious power to drive well.

 

[moonboy403]

First of all, HD800 is a very transparent and neutral headphone. How it sounds highly depends on your upstream equipments which would be your dac and amp.

IMO, it isn't worth it to get a high-end headphone without a DAC or amp which should also be high-end. The HD800 simply wouldn't shine without them. A good dac will allow you to hear things which you've never heard before. You're missing tons to details without one among other things.

As for portable amps, they just don't do justice to the HD800 or most full-size headphones. So a desktop amp is a must.

As for going balanced, here's the link which you can read up on. All I can tell you is that the HD800 is a different animal and benefits from balanced drive very nicely.

In short, I would not recommend getting an open headphone for portable use. Moreover, the HD800 demands you to get high-end upstream equipment since it scales tremendously. I would estimate that a HD800 + DAC + Amp rig that will do it justice would cost you close to $4000.

 

[RupTheKid]

Tungfree - You may decide to take my words with a grain of salt; my qualifications are that I was a recording engineer for years and I currently work as an architectural engineer designing and build reference home theaters and listening rooms for my occupation.

I've been a loyal Sennheiser user for about 12 years now...580 -> 600 -> 650 -> and recently the 800. Every time I upgraded my cans, even though it was plugged directly into a sound card, the improvement in sound quality is immediate.

Contrary to popular belief, measurable distortion in the sound chain is the highest at the transducer. Every other part of the chain has measured distortion that is usually .0X or .00X, but at the speaker level distortion is measured in single and double digits. You will certainly notice the change in sound quality; if you're happy you can stop. If you're not happy then perhaps you can start exploring other options.

I ultimately ended up with a USB -> Coax converter plugged into a modWright CAL Alpha DAC -> Sennheiser 800...and I couldn't be happier.

Feel free to drop me a line if you have any questions. Enjoy the journey.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: videogames101
Ask Head-fi, I don't think anyone here deals with expensive reference class stuff like the HD800s. All I know is that they have 300 ohm resistance, are take some serious power to drive well.

I have been reading it all for weeks now till I forget what I read, my ears are better than my memory LOL Bwahahahah

Thanks for the suggestions

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: moonboy403
First of all, HD800 is a very transparent and neutral headphone. How it sounds highly depends on your upstream equipments which would be your dac and amp.

IMO, it isn't worth it to get a high-end headphone without a DAC or amp which should also be high-end. The HD800 simply wouldn't shine without them. A good dac will allow you to hear things which you've never heard before. You're missing tons to details without one among other things.

As for portable amps, they just don't do justice to the HD800 or most full-size headphones. So a desktop amp is a must.

As for going balanced, here's the link which you can read up on. All I can tell you is that the HD800 is a different animal and benefits from balanced drive very nicely.

In short, I would not recommend getting an open headphone for portable use. Moreover, the HD800 demands you to get high-end upstream equipment since it scales tremendously. I would estimate that a HD800 + DAC + Amp rig that will do it justice would cost you close to $4000.

I am not willing to spend 2500 for a Dac and an amp that is quite a suggestion. But I will go balance.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: RupTheKid
Tungfree - You may decide to take my words with a grain of salt; my qualifications are that I was a recording engineer for years and I currently work as an architectural engineer designing and build reference home theaters and listening rooms for my occupation.

I've been a loyal Sennheiser user for about 12 years now...580 -> 600 -> 650 -> and recently the 800. Every time I upgraded my cans, even though it was plugged directly into a sound card, the improvement in sound quality is immediate.

Contrary to popular belief, measurable distortion in the sound chain is the highest at the transducer. Every other part of the chain has measured distortion that is usually .0X or .00X, but at the speaker level distortion is measured in single and double digits. You will certainly notice the change in sound quality; if you're happy you can stop. If you're not happy then perhaps you can start exploring other options.

I ultimately ended up with a USB -> Coax converter plugged into a modWright CAL Alpha DAC -> Sennheiser 800...and I couldn't be happier.

Feel free to drop me a line if you have any questions. Enjoy the journey.

All week I have been ripping 250 albums to 320 compression and the wav with my Koss Electrostatic cans definately gives you the sense of space which is near all gone in the 320, which now makes me regret the 320 and am lusting for Flack
What you have said tells me that I will be noticing the absence of space in the 320 even more with the HD800
One reson I listen less with the Koss is they make my ears sweaty from the heat of the day in Hawaii. Best to listen early morning or after 8 pm with them. So I will have that to deal with with the HD800 too.

What you said about the measured distortion, got my attention. But I will need to research more what a coaxial converter does or is and what it does to sound. Is the Mod Right Cal Alpha a Dac and an amp? where is the Amp in your line-up?

I am off to research it thanks And thanks for the connection to keep intouch and communicate I will take you up on it As soon as I research your input.



PS 1.

I googled "Mod Right Cal Alpha" and got nothing but games and Army manovers but nothing to do with enhensing sound. Can you explain your rig better with terms I could research? Thanks

PS 2
I just reentered "modWright CAL Alpha DAC" and I see a review be back later

 

[RupTheKid]

Ah, TungFree the piece fully named is California Audio Labs Alpha Tube DAC...quite the mouthful I know!

modWright is an aftermarket specialist...no need to worry about him right now.

320 compression is fine for now...and I believe the headphones will make a bigger difference than the cans. The reason you are noticing the 'lack of space' with the Koss are most likely because electrostats are *much* more sensitive to requiring headphone amplifiers than any sort of dynamic headphones are.

Honestly, I've listened to the HD-800's through an iPod, and while they didn't sound amazing, I still could enjoy the music easily. What you need to do is get yourself a good USB Digital to Analog Converter...that will replace (in most cases) the necessity for a good headphone amp. While the hardcore audiophile snobs will try to convince you that an expensive amp is necessary, this is just because they worship components like deities and are more in love with parts and cables than the music itself.

 

[moonboy403]

A digital to analog converter does one thing only. It converts digital signal to analog signal.

So an amp of some kind is still required to power a headphone.

 

[darkswordsman17]

If I was looking into headphones around that level, I'd take a good look at the JH-13PRO. I think it'd fit your uses much better. Doesn't need serious amplification, sounds good out of nearly everything (including iPods and Zunes) but scales with your equipment, way more portable than an HD800 or that Koss would be. You could then sell your Shure's plus the money you'd save needing a high end amp and just plain costing less than the HD800s, you could put it towards a source or two.

Something like this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/...w-part-one-two-424091/ which would give you a portable and a USB source (and amp). Or Maybe a headmp Pico DAC/amp for the computer. I think it'd probably pair pretty well with a Benchmark DAC1.

Just some suggestions. If I were you, I'd make a thread on Head-Fi, listing your budget (I'd put it in the title) and what your needs are, and you'll almost certainly get plenty of options.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: RupTheKid
Ah, TungFree the piece fully named is California Audio Labs Alpha Tube DAC...quite the mouthful I know!

modWright is an aftermarket specialist...no need to worry about him right now.

320 compression is fine for now...and I believe the headphones will make a bigger difference than the cans. The reason you are noticing the 'lack of space' with the Koss are most likely because electrostats are *much* more sensitive to requiring headphone amplifiers than any sort of dynamic headphones are.

Honestly, I've listened to the HD-800's through an iPod, and while they didn't sound amazing, I still could enjoy the music easily. What you need to do is get yourself a good USB Digital to Analog Converter...that will replace (in most cases) the necessity for a good headphone amp. While the hardcore audiophile snobs will try to convince you that an expensive amp is necessary, this is just because they worship components like deities and are more in love with parts and cables than the music itself.

I do not have an Ipod I have a Zune from Microsoft. While the music sounds awesome directly from the zunes 1/8th inch port, It cannot be played with an Dac and Amp portably, because the zune unlike the Ipod has to be connected to a Power source of 12 volts and that is the only way to take the un amplified source from the charging port instead of the amplified 1/8th inch. which means when I am away from a power source of 12 volts I will just have to listen to the Zune with my ear buds sure 530 which are wonderful but lack in base, possibly because it is the Zune amplifier fault. And at times they irritate me if sitting in my ears too long.

When you listened to an Ipod with the HD800 did you plug in directly into the 1/8th inch port or used the dac and the charger port of the Ipod?

Why did you choose tubes over solid state, since tubes will need replacing and purchasing from special sources in sweden or other foreign country to purchase the fine tubes. Have you a good recommendation for a solid state Dac, used or new if it is a new technology and no one selling it yet.

Verry interesting about your opinion of audio gear phile rater than audio quakityphile, Headroom tries to sell an amplifeir and Dac in one unit for 1600 bux then slips in a 500 Dollar Power suply till y7ou spend 2100 bux for the Dac and preamp. A bit of a Bait and switch game. Why not put in the better power Supply and promote it for 2100 bux? Because few will go past the price and just say no thanks.

Now I am not certain Headroom is doing that but I am certain they are playing up to the equipment worshipers since hardly anything was clearly stated exactly what is missing in the 1600 dollar one.

So I admit it is over my head not have I a chance to audition both with or without the power supply or the HD800 and am totally and Wholly dependent on the witnesses who post the precious data on which I can base a decision, sorry to say there is no other way for me. I am in Kona and Honolulu is 200 mile flight and about 300 ***** stay in a hotel rent a car and pay the airlines to audition good equipment in Honolulu.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Headroom does that because like you note, it costs about 33% of what it costs without it, but it might only get you an extra 5-10% in sound quality. Some are willing to pay that to get it, others aren't. Yes it is marketing as well, you see the original price, and then they go, here's something to make it better, so you'll always doubt you're getting the best from it if you don't spend the extra. Its why I said you need to figure out for yourself what you "believe", as you'll see people say the HD800 sounds like complete crap until you spend $500 on a new cable for it.

On your Shures, try different tips, they make a huge impact on both sound quality and comfort on IEMs. The Shure "olives" (black thick foam) inserts are pretty popular as they tend to offer comfort and a good seal which helps with the sound quality. Bass is especially finnicky when it comes to eartips.

 

[TungFree]

darkswordsman17
it was said above that an amp is needed, but you say you do not need it. Can you describe what you hear?

Fot example I listened to a Nashville performance on my computer's DVD player, with my Koss Electrostatics and it sounded heavenly good every tick of a man or woman's vice the bass the trebble like not even close to MP3 or most CDs it needed no inprovement, the Koss sent me on a clud.

 

[moonboy403]

TungFree

Rather than choosing to believe whether an amp, a dac, or going balanced can make a difference, you should attend a head-fi meet and see/hear for yourself.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17


Or Maybe a headmp Pico DAC/amp for the computer. I think it'd probably pair pretty well with a Benchmark DAC1.

Just some suggestions. If I were you, I'd make a thread on Head-Fi, listing your budget (I'd put it in the title) and what your needs are, and you'll almost certainly get plenty of options.

why the 2 Dacs?

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: TungFree
darkswordsman17
it was said above that an amp is needed, but you say you do not need it. Can you describe what you hear?

Fot example I listened to a Nashville performance on my computer's DVD player, with my Koss Electrostatics and it sounded heavenly good every tick of a man or woman's vice the bass the treble like not even close to MP3 or most CDs it needed no inprovement, the Koss sent me on a cloud.

I made a mistake in the above post I addressed the wrong person I meant to address RupTheKid, sorry darkswordsman17.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: moonboy403
TungFree

Rather than choosing to believe whether an amp, a dac, or going balanced can make a difference, you should attend a head-fi meet and see/hear for yourself.

please read the post I posted, possibly after you posted yours, where I say we have no such meetings on this island nor any stores that sell such ti audition.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
Headroom does that because like you note, it costs about 33% of what it costs without it, but it might only get you an extra 5-10% in sound quality. Some are willing to pay that to get it, others aren't. Yes it is marketing as well, you see the original price, and then they go, here's something to make it better, so you'll always doubt you're getting the best from it if you don't spend the extra. Its why I said you need to figure out for yourself what you "believe", as you'll see people say the HD800 sounds like complete crap until you spend $500 on a new cable for it.

On your Shures, try different tips, they make a huge impact on both sound quality and comfort on IEMs. The Shure "olives" (black thick foam) inserts are pretty popular as they tend to offer comfort and a good seal which helps with the sound quality. Bass is especially finnicky when it comes to eartips.

on the inserts possibly that maybe the problem because the reviewers said it had excellent bass and I hardly hear any low bass.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: RupTheKid
Ah, TungFree the piece fully named is California Audio Labs Alpha Tube DAC...quite the mouthful I know!

modWright is an aftermarket specialist...no need to worry about him right now.

320 compression is fine for now...and I believe the headphones will make a bigger difference than the cans. The reason you are noticing the 'lack of space' with the Koss are most likely because electrostats are *much* more sensitive to requiring headphone amplifiers than any sort of dynamic headphones are.

Honestly, I've listened to the HD-800's through an iPod, and while they didn't sound amazing, I still could enjoy the music easily. What you need to do is get yourself a good USB Digital to Analog Converter...that will replace (in most cases) the necessity for a good headphone amp. While the hardcore audiophile snobs will try to convince you that an expensive amp is necessary, this is just because they worship components like deities and are more in love with parts and cables than the music itself.

I could get the Dac for the computer but if I am to take the sound out of the lower part f the Zune where I charge it, there it comes out totally unamplified but clean cleqan, but I could use it on the computer's sound files.

On the 8/13 post yousaid something that confuses me. I thought that cans are referred to earphones and you imply they are different, what am I misunderstanding, in terminology? or did you mean something else in your post?

"...320 compression is fine for now...and I believe the headphones will make a bigger difference than the cans...."

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
If I was looking into headphones around that level, I'd take a good look at the JH-13PRO. I think it'd fit your uses much better. Doesn't need serious amplification, sounds good out of nearly everything (including iPods and Zunes) but scales with your equipment, way more portable than an HD800 or that Koss would be. You could then sell your Shure's plus the money you'd save needing a high end amp and just plain costing less than the HD800s, you could put it towards a source or two.

Something like this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/...w-part-one-two-424091/ which would give you a portable and a USB source (and amp). Or Maybe a headmp Pico DAC/amp for the computer. I think it'd probably pair pretty well with a Benchmark DAC1.

Just some suggestions. If I were you, I'd make a thread on Head-Fi, listing your budget (I'd put it in the title) and what your needs are, and you'll almost certainly get plenty of options.

I was so busy checking out the components I just got to the JH13 s and started reading the threads and am amazed how valid a suggestion you made.
The problems are having to go for an er fitting. May take time to make am appoinntment and I have no idea what cost there is in obtaining the 2 ear molds.

I have searched to find out what these JH13 will cost and shipping but so far have not found the price some say it is near $1000, then there are additional costs for the cabling

Has anyone on anandtech purchase these in the ear JH13? If yes can you chime in?

 

[darkswordsman17]

The JH-13 are $1099 plus the cost of your ear impressions (I think $50-100 was typical), plus shipping (I saw people say $60 for that), and possibly plus custom artwork (so it'd end up roughly around $1299 at most). It doesn't cost any extra for cables (which are detachable/replaceable). I assume you might've seen the person going off about the crystal or Picolino or whatever super expensive cable? The guy who designed these said he didn't feel super high end cables really added anything to them, so take that for what its worth.

 

[TungFree]

Did you get one JH-13?
I lost the site which directed you to review and the am and dac portable and the ear canal location locally. I thought I saved that site but I am now looking for it cannot recall how I found it.

If you have it what Amp and Dac do you use?

PS
I found it it is

www.jhaudio.com

 

[RupTheKid]

Originally posted by: moonboy403
A digital to analog converter does one thing only. It converts digital signal to analog signal.

So an amp of some kind is still required to power a headphone.

This is incorrect, because all CD players, DACs have an output stage of specified impedance and output voltage. I assume you're basing this statement on reading various forums and never having actually played with a pair? Have you ever tried plugging a pair of reference-class Grados or Sennheisers into an iPod? While the sound is not perfect, it's pretty damn good. The only time headphone amps are truly required for decent quality sound is with a pair of demanding electrostatic headphones like Stax or similar.

REVIEW
http://stereophile.com/headpho...iser_hd800_headphones/

MEASUREMENTS
http://stereophile.com/headpho...headphones/index4.html
"The HD800 will therefore be very easy to drive. While it is unlikely that someone will use the bulky Sennheiser HD800 with an iPod, the specified sensitivity of 102dB/V should mean that the headphones ought to play loudly enough for all but the most fanatical headbanger."

FYI, most sound cards, DACS, and preamps all have a much, much better ability to drive headphones than an iPod.