I Now finallly bought the sens HD800 and ordered the JH13 IEMs yesturday

[RupTheKid]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
The JH-13 are $1099 plus the cost of your ear impressions (I think $50-100 was typical), plus shipping (I saw people say $60 for that), and possibly plus custom artwork (so it'd end up roughly around $1299 at most). It doesn't cost any extra for cables (which are detachable/replaceable). I assume you might've seen the person going off about the crystal or Picolino or whatever super expensive cable? The guy who designed these said he didn't feel super high end cables really added anything to them, so take that for what its worth.

The JH-13 are excellent cans; if you're considering custom fittings certainly look at Ultimate Ears UE11 Pro as well. At this point, the different sound qualities are almost like your preference in automobiles; do you prefer the driving style of a Mercedes, BMW, or Audi?

All of the headphones have their own set of drawbacks and advantages. At the end of the day you'll have to pick the advantages that best suit your needs. For me that was the 800's...but your set of requirements could be far different than mine. I never got used to long-term wearing (+4 hours) of in-ear buds, and at the same token I love circumaural headphones. For days at the desk when I'm listening to music +10 hours, I wouldn't trade the Senns for anything.

Of course, if I tried wearing Senns on the plane or subway, I'd look like a total tool. On the same note, if I needed my headphones to be sealed and not disturb my neighbors, the 800's wouldn't be a viable option either.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: RupTheKid

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
The JH-13 are $1099 plus the cost of your ear impressions (I think $50-100 was typical), plus shipping (I saw people say $60 for that), and possibly plus custom artwork (so it'd end up roughly around $1299 at most). It doesn't cost any extra for cables (which are detachable/replaceable). I assume you might've seen the person going off about the crystal or Picolino or whatever super expensive cable? The guy who designed these said he didn't feel super high end cables really added anything to them, so take that for what its worth.

The JH-13 are excellent cans; if you're considering custom fittings certainly look at Ultimate Ears UE11 Pro as well. At this point, the different sound qualities are almost like your preference in automobiles; do you prefer the driving style of a Mercedes, BMW, or Audi?

All of the headphones have their own set of drawbacks and advantages. At the end of the day you'll have to pick the advantages that best suit your needs. For me that was the 800's...but your set of requirements could be far different than mine. I never got used to long-term wearing (+4 hours) of in-ear buds, and at the same token I love circumaural headphones. For days at the desk when I'm listening to music +10 hours, I wouldn't trade the Senns for anything.

Of course, if I tried wearing Senns on the plane or subway, I'd look like a total tool. On the same note, if I needed my headphones to be sealed and not disturb my neighbors, the 800's wouldn't be a viable option either.

Did you actually hear the jh13 and the Ultimate Ears UE11 Pro as well as the HD800 before you made your pic? The JH13 partner told me sho weould send me a special trial listen to them without the special ear molds. which normally they do not do amd possinly help them serve Hawaii in their absence in some way, it is being discussed.

However the draw back is you cannot remake them for another set of ears. So you buy them and they are yiurs till death of either of you. repairing them is hugely expensive because theyhave to kill yje present ones and redo it from the beginning. So that has to be a consideration. The Koss Electrostatics are waranteed for life. and their suggested retail is 1100 but I got them on sale New for $600.

The fitting for the molds is only $30 I was told locally by the fitters and makers of them. so that is verry reasonable. I can get a free ear test to see how much I can still hear, at my age.

I am considering the Predator Dac/amp, because I could not find the Dac you have, for sale. It is too big to put into my truck were i will be listening for 2 hours a day with them. The impedance on the HD800 is 300 ohm and my Sure 530 has impedance of 36 and the Jh13 has one of 28 ohm I think possibly 26 since my 530 sound great with a small inshsound and not near as bass featured as then Koss, the jh13 should require even less power. I like the variable volume on the sure 530 it helps control and even out the sound levels of the varied recordings. I listen at 13 out of 20 volume and dial back near 11 for most songs. And dial upwrds for quiet recordings. So the JH13 should be driven ner 10 and volume controlled at 12. I humbly predict.

Now I will go chack out the Ultimate Ears UE11 Pro you suggested.

 

[RupTheKid]

Originally posted by: TungFree

Did you actually hear the jh13 and the Ultimate Ears UE11 Pro as well as the HD800 before you made your pic? The JH13 partner told me sho weould send me a special trial listen to them without the special ear molds. which normally they do not do amd possinly help them serve Hawaii in their absence in some way, it is being discussed.

I haven't played with the final version of the JH13, but I did hear a beta version of these a while ago...Apopka (JH headquarters) is about an hour and a half from my office. I have heard several iterations of the Ultimate Ears models (up to 10) at the annual trade shows. If either factory is still offering you a trial 'universal fit' model, you should do take them for a spin.

Originally posted by: TungFree
However the draw back is you cannot remake them for another set of ears. So you buy them and they are yiurs till death of either of you. repairing them is hugely expensive because theyhave to kill yje present ones and redo it from the beginning. So that has to be a consideration. The Koss Electrostatics are waranteed for life. and their suggested retail is 1100 but I got them on sale New for $600.

The fitting for the molds is only $30 I was told locally by the fitters and makers of them. so that is verry reasonable. I can get a free ear test to see how much I can still hear, at my age.

If you can physically listen to a pair and love them, you should consider the custom fitment as a bonus. At this stage in the game, these headphones are likely the last ones any person will need for the rest of their lives. However, if you share your 'phones with a significant other, then the custom fitment option is not the best solution for you.

Originally posted by: TungFree
I am considering the Predator Dac/amp, because I could not find the Dac you have, for sale. It is too big to put into my truck were i will be listening for 2 hours a day with them. The impedance on the HD800 is 300 ohm and my Sure 530 has impedance of 36 and the Jh13 has one of 28 ohm I think possibly 26 since my 530 sound great with a small inshsound and not near as bass featured as then Koss, the jh13 should require even less power. I like the variable volume on the sure 530 it helps control and even out the sound levels of the varied recordings. I listen at 13 out of 20 volume and dial back near 11 for most songs. And dial upwrds for quiet recordings. So the JH13 should be driven ner 10 and volume controlled at 12. I humbly predict.

Now I will go chack out the Ultimate Ears UE11 Pro you suggested.

The DAC I have is not suitable for mobile use. You should really, really try just using your mobile player first before spending money on a DAC. If the sound is good enough for you first, then why mess with it? You're not going to damage your equipment or hearing by waiting to purchase a DAC.

Secondly, I believe you have the wrong idea about impedance. The *higher* the impedance number, the easier the headphones are to drive. An impedance of 300 makes the Senns 900% easier load to drive than your Sure phones, and the JH13 30% more difficult to drive. With any headphones under 50ohms, you should seriously be looking at a portable headphone amp. The Sennheiser phones are, in comparison, notoriously easy to drive.

Also, unless I'm misunderstanding you, it is against the law to have ear buds in both your ears when driving. In some states, you can be pulled over solely for this offense, because with both ears filled the authorities say you may not hear road noise or emergency vehicle sirens.

Ultimately moonboy403 is right; if you have the option of listening to the gear with your own ears and associated equipment there really is no substitute.

 

[moonboy403]

Originally posted by: RupTheKid

Originally posted by: moonboy403
A digital to analog converter does one thing only. It converts digital signal to analog signal.

So an amp of some kind is still required to power a headphone.

This is incorrect, because all CD players, DACs have an output stage of specified impedance and output voltage.

Going back to the original post I quoted from you, you mentioned that a headphone can be plugged into any DAC which I already stated is incorrect.

It's true that that any DAC has an analog output stage. However, most DACs only have line-level output without any volume control so an amp is required. If you happen to come across a DAC(such as the Lavry DA10 and Benchmark DAC1) or CD player that has a headphone out, that's because there's a built in amp as I'm sure you already knew that. So when I hear somebody say a DAC, I will automatically assume that there's only a line level output due to the reasons above.

Originally posted by: RupTheKid
I assume you're basing this statement on reading various forums and never having actually played with a pair? Have you ever tried plugging a pair of reference-class Grados or Sennheisers into an iPod? While the sound is not perfect, it's pretty damn good. The only time headphone amps are truly required for decent quality sound is with a pair of demanding electrostatic headphones like Stax or similar.

....

FYI, most sound cards, DACS, and preamps all have a much, much better ability to drive headphones than an iPod.

Before you assume any further, I wanna tell you that I have had experience with practically all high-end headphones including the Sony R10, Senns HE90/Orpheus, Stax O2, Qualia 010, HD800, AT W5000, L3000...etc.

At the moment, I have the AKG K1000 powered by a Manley Stingray with the Electrocompaniet ECD-1 as source. So I think I have more than enough experience with high-end gears.

Of course, any headphone other than the K1000, K340, and electrostatic headphones, will still sound plenty loud(which doesn't equate to quality) and decent enough without a dedicated amp, but their improvement and refinement brought on by a properly matched amp is undeniable. Particularly, it applies to the HD800 and I'm speaking from personally experience pairing it with many different high-end amps such as the RSA B52, Apache, B22, Zana Deux, Audio Gd Phoenix...etc. Moreover, balancing the HD800 will also bring on very noticeable improvements in various aspects.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: RupTheKid

Originally posted by: moonboy403
A digital to analog converter does one thing only. It converts digital signal to analog signal.

So an amp of some kind is still required to power a headphone.

This is incorrect, because all CD players, DACs have an output stage of specified impedance and output voltage. I assume you're basing this statement on reading various forums and never having actually played with a pair? Have you ever tried plugging a pair of reference-class Grados or Sennheisers into an iPod? While the sound is not perfect, it's pretty damn good. The only time headphone amps are truly required for decent quality sound is with a pair of demanding electrostatic headphones like Stax or similar.

REVIEW
http://stereophile.com/headpho...iser_hd800_headphones/

MEASUREMENTS
http://stereophile.com/headpho...headphones/index4.html
"The HD800 will therefore be very easy to drive. While it is unlikely that someone will use the bulky Sennheiser HD800 with an iPod, the specified sensitivity of 102dB/V should mean that the headphones ought to play loudly enough for all but the most fanatical headbanger."

FYI, most sound cards, DACS, and preamps all have a much, much better ability to drive headphones than an iPod.

iPods have built-in amps, so you're not plugging directly into the line-level output of the DAC, and generally the amp is considered the weak link in the chain on iPods/DAPs (most iPods and the Zune actually use some pretty good quality DACs). Also, there is a difference between getting enough volume and being properly driven. There's a lot that you can discuss, but an IEM is going to be much easier to drive than an HD800.

Its true there are other custom IEMs available, Jerry Harvey is actually largely responsible for Ultimate Ears customs, but he left the company and founded his own. The JH-13 use 6 armatures, whereas most of the current customs use 3 or 4. The UE 11 are known to have some lowend emphasis (has dual low drivers, and single mid, single high) which some people were disappointed with. Jerry Harvey Audio actually offers several other options, but its the 13s that are getting the most attention. Westone also has a custom, the ES3X, which a couple of people have preferred to the JH-13. They're supposedly working on a 9 driver custom, but I don't know how soon its supposed to be out.

A well respected Head-Fi member compared the JH-13, UE 11, and ES3X, and gave a fairly obejective review, but its clear he prefers the JH-13.

Unfortunately I don't have the JH-13, but I am giving them serious consideration (as in I'm seeing how soon I can get them).

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: RupTheKid

The DAC I have is not suitable for mobile use. You should really, really try just using your mobile player first before spending money on a DAC. If the sound is good enough for you first, then why mess with it? You're not going to damage your equipment or hearing by waiting to purchase a DAC. Secondly, I believe you have the wrong idea about impedance. The *higher* the impedance number, the easier the headphones are to drive. An impedance of 300 makes the Senns 900% easier load to drive than your Sure phones, and the JH13 30% more difficult to drive. With any headphones under 50ohms, you should seriously be looking at a portable headphone amp. The Sennheiser phones are, in comparison, notoriously easy to drive. Also, unless I'm misunderstanding you, it is against the law to have ear buds in both your ears when driving. In some states, you can be pulled over solely for this offense, because with both ears filled the authorities say you may not hear road noise or emergency vehicle sirens. Ultimately moonboy403 is right; if you have the option of listening to the gear with your own ears and associated equipment there really is no substitute.

I reread my own writing you quoted and was horrified how many typos I did not catch ***moving my head side to side and slapping my forehead in disgust with myself***

You are right, I misunderstood ( In the short term about the ease and difficulty of work an amp load the amplifier has to deal with). Although I had 6 months of full time classes in the US Army for AC/DC theory and repair of electronics I had studied. Yes I do know that the most difficult loads to drive in home Audio amps are 2 ohm, and you need some very fine amps to drive those, but we human beings are creatures of peculiar intelligence, we need to process what we know, and use it before it becomes part of our daily wisdom tools. So thanks for reminding me.
Now you have me wondering, about volume, and efficiency, and driving power. I mean, high efficiency speakers tend to need less power to drive them. and even with 8 ohm speakers there are more and less efficient boxes they come in, like "infinite baffle" requires much more power but gets a tighter bass while a "Base reflex" box gives more efficiency with less tightness and requires a much bigger magnet to produce a similar base. My Tonnoy speakers from England have a monstrous Magnet on them so even with a base reflex they sound great and tight enough, in the base.

So you have me thinking and rethinking what I say.
My logic was that with less resistance I will have greater efficiency result in volume at the same level of the amp, but I used wrong logic.

The way to test the logic, is as you said, to listen to to the IEM and if it were possible to the HD800s
As to listening to sirens of fire trucks and ambulance, I drive in rush hour times bumper to bumper, and when I notice cars in front of me pulling to the side I can look in the rear view mirror and see the ambulance and I pull over to the shoulder too. The HD800 would stand out like whales on my ears, and the JH13 would be practically invisible.
I am single and looking and if I do get a significant other music lover I might think of being the owner of the HD800 as well and scrape up the funds for them too.

So far from what I read, The HD800 have a bass weakness. I wonder how much of a weakness... So possibly I may love owning both and give up my Koss Electrostatics to my significant other and see what I can get for my Sure 530 on the used market.

Maybe in time someone will invent a converter adopter from one IEM to the next person's ears

I will forget about the Dac and Amp for now and focus on the Jh13 and the HD800. While speaking to Brittany from JHaudio she did mention that there are 6 drivers per ear 2 tweeters two mids and two bass drivers, and that makes for the possible sound attantions it has been getting, JH just discovered a fantastic combination, and how he joined them all for a single ear player. we always play with parallel and series, as Bose does in their 901s to put 9 speakers together for one speaker sound.

You can see by all the writing I am doing, I am thinking overtime... Big bux for me are hard to spend as probably all the rest of you feel too... So I post here at Anandtech for getting clarity. And of course my gratitude for all the help that is offered with brotherly good intentions.

 

[moonboy403]

The HD800 does not have weak bass at all. Those who says that they have weak bass are probably used to the bottom heavy cans such as the JVC DX1000 and Denon D2000/D5000/D7000.

 

[Old Hippie]

Also, unless I'm misunderstanding you, it is against the law to have ear buds in both your ears when driving.

I was cited for wearing headphones while driving during the early 70s in Ohio.

YMMV.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: moonboy403
The HD800 does not have weak bass at all. Those who says that they have weak bass are probably used to the bottom heavy cans such as the JVC DX1000 and Denon D2000/D5000/D7000.

I had called Headroom who were selling the HD800 and spoke to a tech man, after some discussion he revealed to me he preferred the Altrasone 8 because they had a better bass and were more detail oriented. I had a hard time believing him because the Altrasones are closed and the HD800 open, and yet I spent 3 weeks researching the Alteasone 8, only to eventually eliminate them from my list, just from what reviewers said.
Later I had read that the HJ13 has a better base than HD800 and I forgot to add that the Headroom tech man also said that many of his reviewer friends liked the Bass better in the Altrasone. Since I cannot get my hands on any of them, my opinions, are formed vicariously trough other ears and mouths ( or typing fingers if you will.)

Shall I say as I smile, I am all ears

 

[moonboy403]

The Ultrasone Edition, IMO, is a terrible headphone due to its price/performance ratio.

It's basically a headphone with a fun sound signature. It's closed in sounding. The bass was boomy and overpowering at times. Moreover, I have a problem with the attached cable. It looked poorly made and is about 3 feet long which needless to say is less than ideal even for a portable can.

If I want a fun sounding headphone and it isn't for portable use, I would take the D7000 over the Edition 8 any day. The D7000 cost only 1/3rd the price of the Edition 8 too.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: moonboy403
The Ultrasone Edition, IMO, is a terrible headphone due to its price/performance ratio.

It's basically a headphone with a fun sound signature. It's closed in sounding. The bass was boomy and overpowering at times. Moreover, I have a problem with the attached cable. It looked poorly made and is about 3 feet long which needless to say is less than ideal even for a portable can.

If I want a fun sounding headphone and it isn't for portable use, I would take the D7000 over the Edition 8 any day. The D7000 cost only 1/3rd the price of the Edition 8 too.

Very interesting reinforcement of my careful listening to reviewers and coming to a decision that your opinion does not surprise me.

 

[moonboy403]

Originally posted by: TungFree

Originally posted by: moonboy403
The Ultrasone Edition, IMO, is a terrible headphone due to its price/performance ratio.

It's basically a headphone with a fun sound signature. It's closed in sounding. The bass was boomy and overpowering at times. Moreover, I have a problem with the attached cable. It looked poorly made and is about 3 feet long which needless to say is less than ideal even for a portable can.

If I want a fun sounding headphone and it isn't for portable use, I would take the D7000 over the Edition 8 any day. The D7000 cost only 1/3rd the price of the Edition 8 too.

Very interesting reinforcement of my careful listening to reviewers and coming to a decision that your opinion does not surprise me.

Is my opinion not being surprising a positive or negative?

What did you gather about the Edition 8? The Edition 8 isn't my cup of tea. It's not a terrible headphone by itself but given the price tag which runs more than a HD800 and K1000, I would expect more in contrast to its other closed competitions such as the DX1000, D7000, and W5000.

Do note that everyone have their own preference for how a headphone should sound like and is thus subjective. My preference does not necessarily matches yours so if that's the case, my impressions of headphones should be of no use to you. This concept also extends to "professional" reviews such as that of Sterephile's. He loves his K701 which I wouldn't rate it very highly due to its treble emphasis and sterile mids.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: moonboy403

Originally posted by: TungFree

Originally posted by: moonboy403
The Ultrasone Edition, IMO, is a terrible headphone due to its price/performance ratio.

It's basically a headphone with a fun sound signature. It's closed in sounding. The bass was boomy and overpowering at times. Moreover, I have a problem with the attached cable. It looked poorly made and is about 3 feet long which needless to say is less than ideal even for a portable can.

If I want a fun sounding headphone and it isn't for portable use, I would take the D7000 over the Edition 8 any day. The D7000 cost only 1/3rd the price of the Edition 8 too.

Very interesting reinforcement of my careful listening to reviewers and coming to a decision that your opinion does not surprise me.

Is my opinion not being surprising a positive or negative?

What did you gather about the Edition 8? The Edition 8 isn't my cup of tea. It's not a terrible headphone by itself but given the price tag which runs more than a HD800 and K1000, I would expect more in contrast to its other closed competitions such as the DX1000, D7000, and W5000.

Do note that everyone have their own preference for how a headphone should sound like and is thus subjective. My preference does not necessarily matches yours so if that's the case, my impressions of headphones should be of no use to you. This concept also extends to "professional" reviews such as that of Sterephile's. He loves his K701 which I wouldn't rate it very highly due to its treble emphasis and sterile mids.

There is nohing negative in my words. I have not heard any of the earphones so I listen and I learn.

 

[moonboy403]

Also, there are quite a few head-fiers with pretty nice rigs located in Hawaii, so you may be able to pay them a visit(which is pretty normal for head-fiers) and listen to their rigs if you become a member of Head-fi.

 

[TungFree]

I am a member at Head Fi same nick as here Tungfree

 

[JSt0rm]

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/...r/dac1-series-overview

 

[Born2bwire]

Personally, I would just recommend going with someone that can get you a whole package deal if you feel overwhelmed. Headroom will sell you the headphones and the basic desktop home amp has a DAC that will also act as a USB soundcard. Dr. Meier over at Meier Audio has a few amps that have built-in DAC and USB soundcard, and his current promotion is 25% off any amp bought with an HD800. I have his Corda Aria, which is a precursor to the Cantante I think, which I use as a work amp since I can use its USB soundcard. Only problem with Meier Audio is that it's shipped from Germany so it would make it a bit inconvenient to return if you were disappointed with the products (as opposed to Montana for Headroom). Though actually I have seen his amps out here in shops in Hong Kong.

Personally, I keep eyeing the Balanced Ultra Desktop and Ultra DAC comb with balanced HD800's. Mmmmm... I am waiting to hear the HD800's, the shop here in Hong Kong has already sold out the first shipment.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I think Todd the Vinyl Junkie sells Meier Audio products, but then you wouldn't be getting the discount I guess. Anyway, I don't want to come across as a shill for Meier, it's just that Headroom and Meier Audio are the two companies that I know make amps with DAC and USB soundcard which I think is what you would want using a computer as a source.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: Born2bwire
Personally, I would just recommend going with someone that can get you a whole package deal if you feel overwhelmed. Headroom will sell you the headphones and the basic desktop home amp has a DAC that will also act as a USB soundcard. Dr. Meier over at Meier Audio has a few amps that have built-in DAC and USB soundcard, and his current promotion is 25% off any amp bought with an HD800. I have his Corda Aria, which is a precursor to the Cantante I think, which I use as a work amp since I can use its USB soundcard. Only problem with Meier Audio is that it's shipped from Germany so it would make it a bit inconvenient to return if you were disappointed with the products (as opposed to Montana for Headroom). Though actually I have seen his amps out here in shops in Hong Kong.

Personally, I keep eyeing the Balanced Ultra Desktop and Ultra DAC comb with balanced HD800's. Mmmmm... I am waiting to hear the HD800's, the shop here in Hong Kong has already sold out the first shipment.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I think Todd the Vinyl Junkie sells Meier Audio products, but then you wouldn't be getting the discount I guess. Anyway, I don't want to come across as a shill for Meier, it's just that Headroom and Meier Audio are the two companies that I know make amps with DAC and USB soundcard which I think is what you would want using a computer as a source.

since Meier sells the CORDA SYMPHONY.2 for $1375 and at 25% off that is $1031.25 with HD800 and the CORDA SYMPHONY.2 is ballance and had a Dac and the specs sound fantastic, why do you lust for the headroom balanced desktop at $1700 which is a $600 saving?
http://www.meier-audio.homepag...line.de/amplifiers.htm

Me I am to confused because I dislike electronic talk I like it translated into what is it you hear with one or the other. For example I find no review of anyone comparing balance against unbalanced heats sets and same for amps since both Meier and Headroom sell them ans only their own technical jargon descriptions graphs and pictures shown, not someone with real good ears telling us what it is they hear!!!

Frustrates me (not that you posted this but that the information there was just as overwhelming as with Headroom,) that in 2 months of reading I cannot honestly feel enough informed to make a baying decision, and Meier is one I had never heard till you posted this post, giving me new research work and without ears translated to words instead of numbers graphs and salesman talk that is even more confusing to read. I have a BS in Physics and what I read at Meier audio I was going to sleep every paragraph full of words needing a dictionary. Not what a buyer ready to buy needs to hear.

 

[TungFree]

The more I think of the JH13 the more I am troubled.
1. I can never sell them or even loan them or have my GF listen to them
2. if damaged or the chord breaks loose at the base it is toast because they will not repair it it will cost pretty much 1100 for new ones,
they do not reuse what you have in yours

It would scare me to use the HD800 while driving, not because I cannot hear enough, with open cans I can hear enough, but they will not notice ear-buds but will notice the huge head set.

So I either keep my Sure530 or look for non custom IEM that rival the JH13 are there any?

I will most likely get the HD800, for home use and a GF can listen to the Koss electrostatics so a DOC will be a purchase too, maybe with an amp.

Could I easily use a desktop amp in my truck too? or carry it in a bag over my neck on the side? My computer is carried that way to classrooms but only short distances from truck to class. The laptop is under 7 lb with the power supply over 7lbs.

I sent an Email to Dr Meier with questions about his amps and and zune bottom output which no one can find an interface without attaching to a power source like a car battery or a wall wart. The Ipd can be interfaced that way for portable use the Zune only at home or in the car but not outside the 2, unless I carry a huge battery LOL

So maybe the zune has to go too, and the ipod has to be next. Are there any Mp3 players that have either a fine clean amp or their un-amplified output is easily connected to an head amp, and they have a large Hard drive of 80 to 160 gig?

 

[Born2bwire]

Meier has been around for a while though I have never met him. His amps are carried in a lot of places though all around the world. The shop I visit here in Hong Kong has a Symphony 2 to demo so whenever they get more HD800's in I'll probably sit down with the Symphony. Right now I do not have my real rig with me, I left my SACD player and Ray Samuels HR-2 back in the States and I am making due with my computer and Corda Aria.

I am just interested in the Headroom amplifier because it is balanced. I have heard Headroom amps several times before and Tyll is always a hoot. They are solid amps, a little overpriced in my opinion (they are opamp driven after all) but I think that they are a more solid company. They have the 30 day return policy and I can get a whole package deal from them. Right now I need to run off using a USB soundcard so going whole hog with a balanced ultra desktop and ultra DAC would allow me to do that and when I get my CD player and CDs back I can step up to that. But I am not seriously considering buying anything until I make a long trip back to the States so that I can make use of return policies and compare amps.

Ray Samuel amps are very good too but Ray's offerings over the years are increasingly selling at higher price points. He has never reworked his cheaper offerings, the cheapest two desktop amps he has, the XP7 and HR2, have been selling for over 5 years now. He has mainly focused on portables and ultra high end amplifiers which are way out of my forseeable price range.

If you are not in a position to try and attend a Head-fi meet where you can get a large sampling of amps and cans, I would really just recommend ordering from one of the more established sellers. Meier Audio, Headroom, Ray Samuels are some of the smaller companies but have been around for many years. There are some more commercial offerings like from Grace and some others. As long as you get one that has the features you want I doubt you can go wrong. With most places offering 30 day trial periods, the only thing you risk is the cost of shipping, so if you don't like it, send it back otherwise you'll have a setup that you enjoy. I never really found very huge differences in high end amps. Headphones yes because people are sensitive to designs but amplifiers will return smaller and smaller gains the higher you go. So getting a Headroom Desktop amp and using its internal DAC compared to the Corda Symphony 2 or the Grace m902, you will get the same features and useability and you probably will not notice too much of a difference between them.

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: Born2bwire
Meier has been around for a while though I have never met him. His amps are carried in a lot of places though all around the world. The shop I visit here in Hong Kong has a Symphony 2 to demo so whenever they get more HD800's in I'll probably sit down with the Symphony. Right now I do not have my real rig with me, I left my SACD player and Ray Samuels HR-2 back in the States and I am making due with my computer and Corda Aria.

I am just interested in the Headroom amplifier because it is balanced. I have heard Headroom amps several times before and Tyll is always a hoot. They are solid amps, a little overpriced in my opinion (they are opamp driven after all) but I think that they are a more solid company. They have the 30 day return policy and I can get a whole package deal from them. Right now I need to run off using a USB soundcard so going whole hog with a balanced ultra desktop and ultra DAC would allow me to do that and when I get my CD player and CDs back I can step up to that. But I am not seriously considering buying anything until I make a long trip back to the States so that I can make use of return policies and compare amps.

Ray Samuel amps are very good too but Ray's offerings over the years are increasingly selling at higher price points. He has never reworked his cheaper offerings, the cheapest two desktop amps he has, the XP7 and HR2, have been selling for over 5 years now. He has mainly focused on portables and ultra high end amplifiers which are way out of my forseeable price range.

If you are not in a position to try and attend a Head-fi meet where you can get a large sampling of amps and cans, I would really just recommend ordering from one of the more established sellers. Meier Audio, Headroom, Ray Samuels are some of the smaller companies but have been around for many years. There are some more commercial offerings like from Grace and some others. As long as you get one that has the features you want I doubt you can go wrong. With most places offering 30 day trial periods, the only thing you risk is the cost of shipping, so if you don't like it, send it back otherwise you'll have a setup that you enjoy. I never really found very huge differences in high end amps. Headphones yes because people are sensitive to designs but amplifiers will return smaller and smaller gains the higher you go. So getting a Headroom Desktop amp and using its internal DAC compared to the Corda Symphony 2 or the Grace m902, you will get the same features and useability and you probably will not notice too much of a difference between them.

I went and sold my Zune and the Sure 530 earbuds. I will get an Ipod 120 classic because it has an interface for 50 ***** connect to a portable amplifier. But Dr Meier writes me the following statement:
"Also, as said, when driving the Sures from a portable a bass-roll-off will exist because of the coupling capacitors. It's a technical thing that can be quite annoying. "
So is that true of his portable amps or any portable amp? So I will be purchasing the HD-800 + SYMPHONY.2 + possibly the 3MOVE from him but I am surprised no one spoke or a roll of in portable amps And he says it can be quite annoying so should I just get the HD-800 and the Symphony 2 from him and a portable amp from Headroom? or headroom also has a base roll of sue tothe Capacitor coupling?

 

[TungFree]

Update
I had misunder stood Dr Meier. What he meant was that the Ipod and the zune have a coupling capacitor that rolls off the Bass, and that when used with the output from the bottom into any of his amps it will eliminate the roll off

So I just sent by paypall to Dr. Meier of Meier Audio the payment for the Symphony2, the HD800 for home use and the portable amp and the cable from the base of the Ipod to the portable amp which begins with the #3 name. Tomorrow I will be getting fitted for the JH 13 mold I decided to get it anyway and splurge for this year and use it with the portable amp.

This is a thank you post to all of you that created this long tough decision each post get me closer to enabling a buying decision.

PS
I sold the zune and sold the Sure 530 yesterday so I can use the amp portably with the Ipod 120 Classic

 

[moonboy403]

Congratulation on the purchases! Be sure to tell us what you think of them when they arrive!

 

[TungFree]

Originally posted by: moonboy403
Congratulation on the purchases! Be sure to tell us what you think of them when they arrive!

It may take 3 weeks to a month to get them even though he is sending them about now as I type it is 730 am im Germany. He e-mailed me he received the payment and will send it out his this morning my evening in Hawaii. And ordinary mail takes a long time to Hawaii from Europe. But of course I will let you know what I experience when I get them here.

Again Thanks and Thanks and did I say Thanks? well to be sure.... Thank you..

 

[smokenjoe]

I will second how hard it can be at times to get good info out of Head Fi at times. Sometimes the tinfoil brigade so outnumber the sane that they look like the reasonable ones. There is a lot of good info buteven for an extreme technophile like me good info is very hard to sift out.

There are stores that actualy carry these things though they are hard to find. Any good receiver should be able to play the headphones though some better than others it should be designed for the 300 ohm. A large part is simple taste. Portable amps and players are another story. Only the apples and perhaps the cowans have the power to power the good headphones. The Apples are far too popular for the audiosnobs and most of the people that hate them never bothered to do a critical listening test. I dont have to listen to them to know that they suck oh yea right.... they have nearly identical audio components as some of the audio snob systems. No it is not going to sound as good as a identical system with matched parts and isolated components but it hardly sounds bad just because it is popular.

One good source of info ironically is a DIY site much more down to earth. They do get technical but often also give resources/pics to connect the dots.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9

Note your computer has a DAC usually and there are headphone amp sound cards- I ordered one myself. Also note that tube amps have a huge following and the parts are not at all hard to get. I cant comment on the sound though I have not heard a good one with good speakers. There are some good technical reasons they could be better it is all in the design and details though.

Realize that balanced headphones dont do a bit of good without a balanced amp and could cause worse sound on an unbalanced amp with more noise.

I have grado and modified Yamaha orthodynamic headphones. I have reburned my 320 MP3 to Flac AAC and apple lossless.