I really hope this "Metro Look" doesn't catch on

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sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
I feel sorry for humanity as a whole when I look at windows 8. This is 2013? Where is my holographic display with icons that i can reach out and tap to open or squeeze to move? Where is my 3d desktop that I can gesture to move around and zoom in on my video wall, or my music wall, or my news wall? Microsoft doesnt even grasp any of these basic concepts.

How long is it going to be before apple poops out some sort of innovative 3d touch display? One year? Two tops? And they're going to sully it by putting it in their walled garden of crap.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
I feel sorry for humanity as a whole when I look at windows 8. This is 2013? Where is my holographic display with icons that i can reach out and tap to open or squeeze to move? Where is my 3d desktop that I can gesture to move around and zoom in on my video wall, or my music wall, or my news wall? Microsoft doesnt even grasp any of these basic concepts.

How long is it going to be before apple poops out some sort of innovative 3d touch display? One year? Two tops? And they're going to sully it by putting it in their walled garden of crap.

Actually XBox Kinect does some of that. At the dash board you can wave and it'll start using your hand motions to move a cursor and you can long hold on icons to "click" them.
 

dighn

Lifer
Aug 12, 2001
22,820
4
81
You will always get threads like this,happens on nearly every new OS,personally Metro is not a big deal since you can avoid it for the most part especially if you hate it etc...I use Metro when I need to and have got use to it,however I still feel it will be improved in the next OS,the big question is will it keep most of the anti-Metro fans happy?...only time will tell.


I'm usually on board with each new Windows release; hell I even liked Vista. But there are objective reasons why Metro is a huge step backward in usability, unless you are the most casual of casual users, and I can't even forget about it because they did not give us an option to boot past it, and it is also the replacement for the start menu. Why wouldn't we talk about it if we are constantly reminded of it? (yes I can buy a 3rd party tool for that; but I don't like that for multiple reasons)
 
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PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Sadly the general public seems to like it based on it's explosive sales numbers on release.

Wait, what? Explosive sales? Win 8 is probably the worst selling ms OS ever, lagging behind Vista even at bargain bin prices. Instead of helping laptop and PC manufacturers revitalize the pc industry, it's driving people away toward tablets and macs in droves.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Wait, what? Explosive sales? Win 8 is probably the worst selling ms OS ever, lagging behind Vista even at bargain bin prices. Instead of helping laptop and PC manufacturers revitalize the pc industry, it's driving people away toward tablets and macs in droves.

Sales seems to be all over the place depending where you look ,however its far from worst OS by Microsoft IMHO,personally I like Win8 (they got three sales from me)but Metro seems to be designed for tablet/phone users, having said that not too hard to customize it or tweak desktop for desktop users like myself,funny thing is I went into my brothers bank today to put a cheque in at counter for him ,I had to use a ticket machine which had different options etc.. just to queue up and it was touchscreen too ,reminded me of Metro/tablet users lol...I also had to show an old lady how to use it, tech is fine but if you are low tech /blind or can't read English not a great solution.
 
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Bat123Man

Member
Nov 14, 2006
190
4
81
The potential mistake MS made was in being too much like Apple; they radically removed the Start button just like Apple periodically abandons widely-owned hardware. And that is not a bad thing. We can thank Apple for finally allowing the floppy to die a long-overdue death, yet I remember how "radical" that decision seemed at the time.

Personally, I think Win8 is great. The boot times alone are worth the upgrade cost, it is incredibly satisfying to boot to the login prompt in seconds. I installed the open-source "Classic Start Menu" to get me through the transition, but have been getting more and more used to Metro. I now rarely use the start menu, although have certainly not abandoned it. Also, the Metro interface is made much more efficient with a TouchPad, and although costly, you should see how quickly my kids have adopted its use. They have taken their iPad skills and applied them to Win8. They zoom around in Metro like it was second nature.

So don't be too hard on Win8 until you have figured it out. Without question it is the biggest learning curve of any Windows OS, but it also comes with some great new features (Windows + X anyone?).
 

Blueychan

Senior member
Feb 1, 2008
602
0
76
Metro is an interface designed for "slow" folk. The rest of us just want to use our computer, like we always have. Without having the interface constantly and completely dumbed-down.

(One program full-screen at a time? Are the kidding me?)

That's one feature of an otherwise great OS that you don't like....you DON'T HAVE TO USE IT.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Actually, it's anything but. The whole point of metro is to remove clutter.
By cluttering up my entire screen(s) replacing something that used to only take up a fraction of the space and work more efficiently? No thanks.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Actually, it's anything but. The whole point of metro is to remove clutter.

So, what are you actually complaining about when you say "metro?"

The start screen is what most people are referring to when someone says metro. It removed my ability to organize things, can I create folders on the start screen? I installed Visual Studio and SQL 2012 a few weeks ago on a Win8 VM and the stupid thing puked like 2 dozen new icons onto my start screen. Most of them would normally be organized into directories below Start->Visual Studio and Start->SQL Server, but now they're all at one level and probably extended my start screen's width by 100%. So instead of just starting up SSMS or VS I had to hunt through 2 dozen icons and take the time to hide almost all of them if I don't want to keep doing that.
 

yinan

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2007
1,801
2
71
The start screen is what most people are referring to when someone says metro. It removed my ability to organize things, can I create folders on the start screen? I installed Visual Studio and SQL 2012 a few weeks ago on a Win8 VM and the stupid thing puked like 2 dozen new icons onto my start screen. Most of them would normally be organized into directories below Start->Visual Studio and Start->SQL Server, but now they're all at one level and probably extended my start screen's width by 100%. So instead of just starting up SSMS or VS I had to hunt through 2 dozen icons and take the time to hide almost all of them if I don't want to keep doing that.

Agree 100%. One of the many reasons I am not using it.
 

cboath

Senior member
Nov 19, 2007
368
0
76
Personally, I expect being able to put folders on the start screen to be something added very soon.

Why?

From simply a tablet POV, and competing with Apple and Android - Both of those offer folders on their 'start screens' or whatever you want to call them. I've said this elsewhere before, but it's part of the problem of installing "Legacy" software onto a win8 machine. I know, a v2012 of something doesn't strike most people as legacy, but it is if you define legacy as pre-OS (pre-win8). I'd venture the 2013 version will either create a folder for you or have 1-2 tiles that pop up a menu that allow you to choose which application to run.

This comes down to, frankly, the 2 very different ways to use the OS. As a tablet/phone or a desktop. I've got multiple applications that create a lot of shortcuts on the start screen. In my case, I know a rarely use of lot of it (some are direct links to help files, urls, etc) so i can remove those tiles, but it still creates a LOT of tiles that it probably doesn't need.

For things like that, i've actually started taking the off the start menu all together and making pop up menu toolbars to anchor on the desktop.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Personally, I expect being able to put folders on the start screen to be something added very soon.

Why?

From simply a tablet POV, and competing with Apple and Android - Both of those offer folders on their 'start screens' or whatever you want to call them. I've said this elsewhere before, but it's part of the problem of installing "Legacy" software onto a win8 machine. I know, a v2012 of something doesn't strike most people as legacy, but it is if you define legacy as pre-OS (pre-win8). I'd venture the 2013 version will either create a folder for you or have 1-2 tiles that pop up a menu that allow you to choose which application to run.

This comes down to, frankly, the 2 very different ways to use the OS. As a tablet/phone or a desktop. I've got multiple applications that create a lot of shortcuts on the start screen. In my case, I know a rarely use of lot of it (some are direct links to help files, urls, etc) so i can remove those tiles, but it still creates a LOT of tiles that it probably doesn't need.

For things like that, i've actually started taking the off the start menu all together and making pop up menu toolbars to anchor on the desktop.

Those aren't legacy apps, MS is still pushing desktop apps with Win8. Hell, Office 2013 is "designed for Windows 8" and it does the same thing and is so touch unfriendly it's not even funny. If desktop apps were legacy they wouldn't have included a desktop or would have sandboxed it more as a disincentive to using it, like XP mode in Win7. All this seems to indicate is that poorly written apps and their installers will be able to be even more annoying in the future.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,452
10,120
126
That's one feature of an otherwise great OS that you don't like....you DON'T HAVE TO USE IT.

That's only because there are so few Metro apps available today. Once developers start embracing MS, and releasing Metro apps, then it will be impossible to avoid.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,452
10,120
126
When it comes down to it, Windows 8's UI, overall, is a giant step backwards for the industry. It's shameful that MS even came up with this stuff. Just because Android didn't evolve forward to the level of the Windows UI level, now MS has intentionally regressed the Windows 8 UI to match Android.
 

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
5,338
476
126
Here's the deal. Upgrade to Win 8 for $39.99 plus tax. In my case in PA @$42.39 and pay $5 more for a licensed version of Start8. It gives the start buttom back to Win 8 and allows an upgrade for a total cost of @$47.50.

We can "hate" the new Win 8 look till the cows come home but MS is unlikely to change back.
 

yinan

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2007
1,801
2
71
Here's the deal. Upgrade to Win 8 for $39.99 plus tax. In my case in PA @$42.39 and pay $5 more for a licensed version of Start8. It gives the start buttom back to Win 8 and allows an upgrade for a total cost of @$47.50.

We can "hate" the new Win 8 look till the cows come home but MS is unlikely to change back.

Or, I can just run the awesome Windows 7 forever and never downgrade.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Or, I can just run the awesome Windows 7 forever and never downgrade.

Forever is a long time and eventually things will stop working on it, like they have already done for Win2K Pro and are starting to do so for XP.
 

coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,096
0
81
[Warning -sarcastic humor ahead]

Eh - it's there...but I don't have to use it. It does look pretty organized though.... just like my iphone / android phones... [they don't have start menus - curses!]

I can push the windows key on me keyboard, click on the "metro icon" that looks like a smaller version of the desktop and I'm back to computing like it's Win7 with an upgraded hyper drive [minus the start button which was mainly used for "Start -> Sleep"]. Heck - if I want to go "full retard" - I'll install Classicshell just so I can have my precious little start button back...

But you know what really puts my underwear in a bind? Ubuntu and the location of the "start menu/taskbar" - it's at the top of the screen!! What darned fool decided to go against the consumer industry standard? It's WRONG and it needs to DEFAULT to the bottom of the screen just like MS and Apple products!
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
We can "hate" the new Win 8 look till the cows come home but MS is unlikely to change back.

I don't care if they change it back or not, but I'm not using it. So if they continue down that crappy road, it will just push users like me who were happily using Win 7 towards linux, macs, or some tablet like android.

Forever is a long time and eventually things will stop working on it, like they have already done for Win2K Pro and are starting to do so for XP.

I'll just keep using win 7 until the next best thing comes out. Win 8 sucks horribly, so I'm skipping it. If the next MS OS sucks as bad, then I switch to another platform. At least I know I can use Win 7 for 3-5 more years so that is plenty of time for a decent OS to come along.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
I don't care if they change it back or not, but I'm not using it. So if they continue down that crappy road, it will just push users like me who were happily using Win 7 towards linux, macs, or some tablet like android.



I'll just keep using win 7 until the next best thing comes out. Win 8 sucks horribly, so I'm skipping it. If the next MS OS sucks as bad, then I switch to another platform. At least I know I can use Win 7 for 3-5 more years so that is plenty of time for a decent OS to come along.

Do you ever remember MS capitulating to whiners about UI changes in the past? Things like XP's "FisherPrice theme", the Office ribbon, stripping functionality from the defrag UI, etc were all whined about incessantly when they were released but MS stuck to their guns and kept them all as is and after some time people stopped whining and just got used to it. I'm betting MS does the same thing here.

The start screen is a much larger than normal change so I suppose there's a very slim chance they may back-peddle on a start menu given how many 3rd party ones have become available, but I doubt it. Regardless, there's no way any of the next few OSes from MS are not going to have Metro forced down your throat because that's their leverage into the mobile space and how they plan on competing with Apple and Android.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Do you ever remember MS capitulating to whiners about UI changes in the past? Things like XP's "FisherPrice theme", the Office ribbon, stripping functionality from the defrag UI, etc were all whined about incessantly when they were released but MS stuck to their guns and kept them all as is and after some time people stopped whining and just got used to it. I'm betting MS does the same thing here.
Your thinking IMO is as wrongheaded as Ballmer and his legion of clueless executives on this. It's not a question of capitulating- it's a question of innovating.

Windows 8's Metro UI is not innovation. It's not essential to anyone's computing experience. There's a lot about it that's poorly conceived, poorly executed, breaks established usability guidelines, ,many users DO find it annoying to downright invasive, and so it must either have a lot more thought actually put into it, or dumped in favor of more modern and innovate ideas.

So if MS thinks they can just shove whatever crap down everyone's throat and everyone will just take it, they're mistaken. They'll eventually destroy the trust of the user base, become obsolete and drive more and more people away in favor of those who are willing to step up and offer innovation. Their mistake is in thinking they'll own the bully position forever, and though they are a long way from falling right now, it's not a guarantee that they'll forever be able to bully their way onto a majority of desktops regardless of what crap they put out.

You're also wrong that they haven't backtracked on many of their dreadful decisions over the years. The market has spoken loud and clear with other dumb or badly executed ideas of theirs: BoB, The Kin, their various failed mobile OS attempts, ME, etc. Despite some people's attempts to rewrite the history of it, Vista was a failure and prompted a return to much better design decisions with Windows 7 which is probably their biggest success.

It's the history of tech. There were huge computer corporations that dominated their industries when Microsoft and Apple were mere startups with 3 and 4 employees. Today most people couldn't tell you who any of those giants even were because the startups that were more innovative took over. The same fate will happen to Microsoft if it thinks it can always get by shoving poorly executed ideas in consumer's faces that are designed first to meet some corporate hoop-dream, and the needs of actual users a distant last. No, not overnight, but eventually such an attitude will catch up with them as it has many, many, many others before them who thought they were 'too big to fail'. There's really no such thing in business, and MS is no different despite any hype otherwise.
 
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