I returned a broken 8800GTS to frys and they put it back on the shelf

[angry hampster]

http://www.guru3d.com/article/article/449/

Works perfectly with my GT.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: Syntax Error
Download RivaTuner.

Monitor Temperatures.

Adjust fan speed as necessary.

Rinse and repeat.

Riva Tuner does not "work" with my card... that is, it will not monitor or change anything.
A lot of people are having that problem with the G92 based cards. I don't have any idea why it works for some and not for others, but I have been fiddling with it for an hour before giving up. I just let ntunes set my fan speed, thats all I Really need anyways.


4 hours of consecutive gaming and still not a single stutter. I think the performance is better too... Also I haven't noticed any more "stutters"... which I attributed to lesser performance before, but may have happened due to overheating.

Just get Gainward's ExperTool... It's easy, and it works. You can set the clocks, the fan speed, and monitor the temps...

http://www.gainward.com/support/support_uk.html

...it's worked fine for me with an 8800GTX, GT, and now my GTS 512, and none of them were Gainward branded cards.

That being said, I don't mess with the fan speeds. The stock dynamic setting keeps the card quiet, and I have yet to see my temps get much over 60C at load. It's idling right now at 49C, and it's next to silent.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Did this thread just take a 180 degree turn?

Glad you got your problem fixed.

 

[taltamir]

12 hours of consecutive gaming now... still not a single problem. So yea I would say it was fixed. that is, there was never a problem to begin with. The card I got originally was defective, it broke after an hour, and was returned to frys. This card hasn't broken. (although i did up the fan speed on it from 29% to 52%)

From what I Read about riva tuner and the new GTS you need updated cfg file to make it work... or so I read. I have yet to see such a thing anywhere... maybe I just need to reinstall it. It was working fine with my 7900GS... i put in the 8800GTS that broke and it didnt detect it, i put the 7900GS back in and it did detect it... i got a new GTS and it did not detect it... so for some reason it will not detect a GTS on my system. Don't know why.

Nirtomullet, thanks for the suggestion, I will try that tool

 

[mruffin75]

Congrats on the working card Taltamir...but I don't think anyone said "it's your power supply!".. we merely suggested that it *may* have been caused by your power supply. It was really your flat-out reluctance to think that you may have been wrong that basically kept this thread going.

As a side note though... GTS's are *that* hot??? I can see others are saying their cards idle a lot lower than the one you have...maybe your next upgrade are a few 80mm fans to cool all those hard drives/hot video cards down?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: mruffin75
Congrats on the working card Taltamir...but I don't think anyone said "it's your power supply!".. we merely suggested that it *may* have been caused by your power supply. It was really your flat-out reluctance to think that you may have been wrong that basically kept this thread going.

As a side note though... GTS's are *that* hot??? I can see others are saying their cards idle a lot lower than the one you have...maybe your next upgrade are a few 80mm fans to cool all those hard drives/hot video cards down?

Yes. The "I know all" thing that annoyed most in here. Since talt had so much trouble even considering the fact that he might be wrong, I doubt he would make it known to us if the card had failed a second time. Something to consider here. I actually fully expected the card to work flawlessly forever, when waiting for talt's report. I wasn't disappointed.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: taltamir
You know what, I was gonna list all the insults I have received thus far and demand an apology from each and every one of and an admission that I was right and you were wrong... But I am not going to do that. I am gonna let YOU come forward and do that on your own.

Just so I don't feel left out for not insulting you...

Originally posted by: taltamir
I was right and you were wrong
I was right and you were wrong
I WAS RIGHT AND YOU WERE WRONG

I bet your face lit up with glee. You lost me here.

 

[cessation]

Hmm I don't lurk the anandtech forums as much as I use to but wow. All the insults were just uncalled for and I don't remember everyone acting like they have to be right about everything around here.

But anyway in the end the guy has a 8800GTS which nvidia says should "at least" be plugged into a 12v rail that has 26A and he has it plugged into a 18A rail? If it was my system I wouldn't care if it worked for a month, that just sounds like a problem waiting to happen. The PSU is the last thing you should go cheap on.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: taltamir
Riva Tuner does not "work" with my card... that is, it will not monitor or change anything.

Taltamir, per the developer on Guru3D's Rivatuner Support Forum, you need to modify a file in order to get Rivatuner 2.06 to work properly with the new GTS. Open up Rivatuner.cfg in Notepad or Wordpad and add ,600h to the line that begins with G92 so it looks like this ......

G92= 610h-61Fh,600h

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: cessation
But anyway in the end the guy has a 8800GTS which nvidia says should "at least" be plugged into a 12v rail that has 26A and he has it plugged into a 18A rail? If it was my system I wouldn't care if it worked for a month, that just sounds like a problem waiting to happen. The PSU is the last thing you should go cheap on.

The 26 Amps recommendation is not for the GPU itself...that would be 312 Watts of 12V power. The 26 Amps is supposed to be the power draw of the entire system including processor, fans, GPU and Hard Drives. His Power supply has a rail limted to 18 Amps and a rail limted to 15 Amps. While this does not add up to a combined 33Amps (unfortunately they do not list a combined wattage on the badge) it has been supposed by SKYMTL at Hardware Canucks that the combined rating would be somewhere between 26-27 Amps. His GPU alone shouldn't draw more than 10amps I wouldn't think, so a rail limited to 18 Amps wouldn't be a problem unless all the other components in his system overdraw the limit of the combined 12V system.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Nevermind. Restating the Obvious. Please Delete.

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: ManWithNoName
Nevermind. Restating the Obvious. Please Delete.

I don't know, it didn't seem so obvious.

I didn't bother posting the .cfg edit though. Something about falling on deaf ears...

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: SteelSix

Originally posted by: ManWithNoName
Nevermind. Restating the Obvious. Please Delete.

I don't know, it didn't seem so obvious.

I didn't bother posting the .cfg edit though. Something about falling on deaf ears...

I hear you No Pun intended ...

 

[taltamir]

thank you for the cfg file info... I looked and I looked and I found a ton of references to it, but nowhere did I find a mention of WHAT needs to be change to make it work..
I am at work right now, but I will edit the cfg file and uninstall ntunes as soon as I get home...

Also:

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: mruffin75
Congrats on the working card Taltamir...but I don't think anyone said "it's your power supply!".. we merely suggested that it *may* have been caused by your power supply. It was really your flat-out reluctance to think that you may have been wrong that basically kept this thread going.

As a side note though... GTS's are *that* hot??? I can see others are saying their cards idle a lot lower than the one you have...maybe your next upgrade are a few 80mm fans to cool all those hard drives/hot video cards down?

Yes. The "I know all" thing that annoyed most in here. Since talt had so much trouble even considering the fact that he might be wrong, I doubt he would make it known to us if the card had failed a second time. Something to consider here. I actually fully expected the card to work flawlessly forever, when waiting for talt's report. I wasn't disappointed.

It wasn't a "I know it all" it was a case where I knew I was right, so despite bashing and heavy criticism and about 7 or so people all telling me I was wrong I stuck to it... And I WAS right. They were all wrong. I tried to reason, I tried to show logic, I tried to show evidence, and each time it resulted in further insults, in doubting my methods, my logic, my reasoning, and my goals... So I went and proved it by repurchasing another card... keep in mind I never actually HAD a problem or asked for help... as I was saying here is that its incredible that frys took a broken card and put it back on the shelf (I saw it back on the shelf, checked the serial number to make sure its that same one)
I wasn't even trying to make fun of the salesmen.. he was right to doubt me... however he should have still subjected the card to a proper test... which it would have failed.

Originally posted by: cessation
Hmm I don't lurk the anandtech forums as much as I use to but wow. All the insults were just uncalled for and I don't remember everyone acting like they have to be right about everything around here.

But anyway in the end the guy has a 8800GTS which nvidia says should "at least" be plugged into a 12v rail that has 26A and he has it plugged into a 18A rail? If it was my system I wouldn't care if it worked for a month, that just sounds like a problem waiting to happen. The PSU is the last thing you should go cheap on.

26 amp total power rating for the entire system on a 400 watt psu... not 26 watt per rail.

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: taltamir
You know what, I was gonna list all the insults I have received thus far and demand an apology from each and every one of and an admission that I was right and you were wrong... But I am not going to do that. I am gonna let YOU come forward and do that on your own.

Just so I don't feel left out for not insulting you...

Originally posted by: taltamir
I was right and you were wrong
I was right and you were wrong
I WAS RIGHT AND YOU WERE WRONG

I bet your face lit up with glee. You lost me here.

I literally danced a gig... It was incredible frustrating to have every single person posting in the thread (and so many of them too) gang up on me and tell me how wrong and stupid I am (and the few coming to my defense were saying how its wrong to be insulting towards someone who "just doesn't know any better", which was much worse because at least they were NICE people so I couldn't just discard their opinion as jerks and trolls)...

I mean, talk about peer pressure there. I have never, EVER, been subjected to such a severe case of negative peer pressure. Not about smoking (Which I never did), or drinking (Which I very rarely do, and in moderation), or anything of this sort. This was on an entirely new level.



Bottom line is... its only arrogance / stubbornness / and know it all attitude of the person in question is WRONG. I was honestly afraid when I went to buy that second video card because I knew that if I am proven wrong it would mean that I am an arrogant, stubborn, know it all prick...
I steeled myself and said, "all right, if this turns out to be the case I am gonna go there and apologize, admit I was wrong, and take myself down a few pegs because I am obviously being too arrogant about my knowledge".

But that was NOT the case.. I was right, they were ALL wrong. I wasn't "an arrogant know it all". I was just right. Just like Galileo wasn't an "arrogant know it all" when he said the earth is round... he was just right and everyone else was wrong. (and yes, I am aware that THIS comparison is a bit arrogant, but its the only one I can think of)

 

[nitromullet]

You're lucky that you were "right" this time, but I think that something should be mentioned here. I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but a lot of your assertions/assumptions/arguments about power supplies in this thread are simply incorrect. While you might get lucky and not have any issues with your GTS, eventually you will have an issue if you continue to go the cheap route with your PSU. Just some friendly advice.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: taltamir


I mean, talk about peer pressure there. I have never, EVER, been subjected to such a severe case of negative peer pressure. Not about smoking (Which I never did), or drinking (Which I very rarely do, and in moderation), or anything of this sort. This was on an entirely new level.



Bottom line is... its only arrogance / stubbornness / and know it all attitude of the person in question is WRONG. I was honestly afraid when I went to buy that second video card because I knew that if I am proven wrong it would mean that I am an arrogant, stubborn, know it all prick...
I steeled myself and said, "all right, if this turns out to be the case I am gonna go there and apologize, admit I was wrong, and take myself down a few pegs because I am obviously being too arrogant about my knowledge".

But that was NOT the case.. I was right, they were ALL wrong. I wasn't "an arrogant know it all". I was just right. Just like Galileo wasn't an "arrogant know it all" when he said the earth is round... he was just right and everyone else was wrong. (and yes, I am aware that THIS comparison is a bit arrogant, but its the only one I can think of)

There is a *reason* you were singled out ... and it is your "attitude"

i am not judging it ... because i do the same thing - regularly - and enjoy working my out of the bottom of a dog-pile
--look at the time and expense i am going thru to test Vista 32 vs 64-bit because i stated my opinion. i am subject to this kind of scrutiny - here - continuously.

-and i take it as a personal challenge to keep learning more to stay ahead of you guys [or at least somewhat up-to-date].


As long as you [apparently] realize you *could* have been wrong, you should take yourself down a few pegs - anyway. The world does not revolve around you [or me] being 'right'. And there are those rare times when i am glad to admit i am wrong - and learn something.

 

[nullpointerus]

:Q


Galileo...drinking...peer pressure...personal challenges...

What have I missed by not reading this thread?!

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
You're lucky that you were "right" this time, but I think that something should be mentioned here. I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but a lot of your assertions/assumptions/arguments about power supplies in this thread are simply incorrect. While you might get lucky and not have any issues with your GTS, eventually you will have an issue if you continue to go the cheap route with your PSU. Just some friendly advice.

If you carefully read my posts you would notice that most of these were "arguments within context" rather then me making incorrect assumptions about PSUs... for example someone told me that the rail supplying my video card is too low... regardless of overall amperage.. so rather then get into the complicated argument of multi rail power distribution. I gave examples where higher end power supplies are providing the same amount per rail (just more rails). At the end of that very post I say exactly that though, that as far as I know that's not how things work. But even if they worked that way then the assumption that I am lacking is wrong.

Also, I do not go the cheap route with power supplies.
1. I already have more power then I need... I am running only one video card after all.
2. I Got the most expensive PSU from an unknown brand name because I was taking a risk based on what I heard of it (from reviews, from other purchaser's posts, etc) and it payed off.
3. I bought that PSU almost 2 years ago... it was NOT cheap back then...

Its not like I bought a 10$ 500 watt psu... or a 20$, or a 30$ or a 40$ one... (each bracket has about 5 psus from non major brand names)... I bought at a price range VERY similar to PSUs coming from antec, OCZ, etc... And NOT because I was being CHEAP about it... I could have easily paid 10$ more that antec or gotten the enermax for 5 dollars less.
But I did not because this particular model is really, really good. So I would rather have it over that particular antec PSU.

Throughout I held that it could have very well been lack of power that BROKE the video card... what I Was arguing is that even if lack of power broke the video card, the fact remains is that it was BROKEN and should not have been put back on the shelf. And that my PSU has NOT been degraded (because the load requirement of the 7900GS is higher then the idle of 8800GTS... and the GTS was crashing in idle while the GS was perfectly stable in load).
I thought it was the HEAT that broke it.. but didn't argue that point... (I just mentioned in passing and let it be)

luck had nothing to do with it. I looked at cold hard inescapable facts. Its like telling someone that he was LUCKY to have been right when he claimed that 2+2=4

 

[nitromullet]

edit. nm...

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: nitromullet
You're lucky that you were "right" this time, but I think that something should be mentioned here. I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but a lot of your assertions/assumptions/arguments about power supplies in this thread are simply incorrect. While you might get lucky and not have any issues with your GTS, eventually you will have an issue if you continue to go the cheap route with your PSU. Just some friendly advice.

If you carefully read my posts you would notice that most of these were "arguments within context" rather then me making incorrect assumptions about PSUs... for example someone told me that the rail supplying my video card is too low... regardless of overall amperage.. so rather then get into the complicated argument of multi rail power distribution. I gave examples where higher end power supplies are providing the same amount per rail (just more rails). At the end of that very post I say exactly that though, that as far as I know that's not how things work. But even if they worked that way then the assumption that I am lacking is wrong.

Also, I do not go the cheap route with power supplies.
1. I already have more power then I need... I am running only one video card after all.
2. I Got the most expensive PSU from an unknown brand name because I was taking a risk based on what I heard of it (from reviews, from other purchaser's posts, etc) and it payed off.
3. I bought that PSU almost 2 years ago... it was NOT cheap back then...

Its not like I bought a 10$ 500 watt psu... or a 20$, or a 30$ or a 40$ one... (each bracket has about 5 psus from non major brand names)... I bought at a price range VERY similar to PSUs coming from antec, OCZ, etc... And NOT because I was being CHEAP about it... I could have easily paid 10$ more that antec or gotten the enermax for 5 dollars less.
But I did not because this particular model is really, really good. So I would rather have it over that particular antec PSU.

Throughout I held that it could have very well been lack of power that BROKE the video card... what I Was arguing is that even if lack of power broke the video card, the fact remains is that it was BROKEN and should not have been put back on the shelf. And that my PSU has NOT been degraded (because the load requirement of the 7900GS is higher then the idle of 8800GTS... and the GTS was crashing in idle while the GS was perfectly stable in load).
I thought it was the HEAT that broke it.. but didn't argue that point... (I just mentioned in passing and let it be)

luck had nothing to do with it. I looked at cold hard inescapable facts. Its like telling someone that he was LUCKY to have been right when he claimed that 2+2=4

Whether or not you realize it, this very post demonstrates why there was any problem at all. If you had held that it could have very well been the lack of power that broke the video card, 9/10ths of the posts in this thread would not have existed. Wouldn't you agree?

I think from this point on, I'll take Nitromullets approach. As in "nm".

 

[taltamir]

Thank you ManWithNoName for the info about editing rivatuners cfg file... it now detects my video card.

@Keysplayr2003:
The only arrogance I see in this thread is that so many people who assume to know my thoughts and motives... how do they KNOW I was unable to even contemplate that I was wrong? How do you know that I didn't think... gee, I could be wrong but hard facts here tell me that I am right... I can't deny hard facts.
If you thought I did not hold such a view point then you simply did not read my posts carefully enough and missed the parts where I said so. Or maybe I have structured it in a way that makes it easily overlookable.

The reason there was a problem was because a bunch of trolls (there, I said it) came in here and began personally insulting me about an issue barely related to the thread (my choice of power supply has little relevance to the fact that frys stocked a defective card... it only changes weather it was my fault it broke, which I even admitted it MIGHT have been)... As soon as I showed hard proof that I was right every single one of them disappeared, notice the last page only had ONE person who was part of the original argument... nitromullet, and he was NOT rude, insulting, or offensive in his posts during the argument, but cordial and understanding, he simply disagreed with me... yet all the people who WERE personally attacking me, and formed the bulk of the offensive, disappeared without a trace, unwilling to admit their mistake.

I don't know if the nice people got caught up with the fact it seemed to have been me vs everyone, so it must be the single person who is wrong.
Or weather they would have genuinely believed that my PSU was inadequate under different circumstances... but I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Spike]

Sorry to jump in here (I only made it through the first of 2 pages to this thread) but I see alot of people pimping overpriced power supplies. Yes, a PSU is important and yes, you need quality to run an SLI setup but people, it does not require a $100+ PSU to run a highly overclocked single gpu setup. Here is where a guy ran an overclocked Q6600 setup with an X1800 on a Earthwatts 380 which you can get for $15-20 AR often. The Earthwatts 500 are often reccomended here and in other forums for any single GPU, overclocked CPU gaming rig and I picked mine up for $30 AR.

Heck, right now I am running my system in the rig below using a FAR cooler master extreme power 550w (which does not really have 550watts mind you) except that I have an overclocked 8800GTS 512 in there instead of the 7800GT listed and everything runs fine and stays cool, even after hours of playing Crysis, UT3, COD4, or Bioshock.

I don't know much about the way a PSU works and I would never pretend otherwise but I still think people are going a little overboard reccomending the extremely expensive PSU's. The only way I can say that given my lack of knowledge is the extensive reading of reviews and posts at many forums showing that this is the case. No, spending a crap load to get the uber leet PSU is not neccesarily a waste as the PSU is arguably the most important part in your pc but at the same time if money is an issue there are many cheap alternatives that will serve even the most hardcore oveclockers... assuming you stick to a single GPU.

And to Taltamir I'm sorry your first 8800GTS did not work out. Rivatuner needs to be modified to adjust the fan speeds on the new GTS which is why yours did not work at first. I have mine set at 50% constant and it gets up to about 75c after hours of gaming in a warm room so it's not bad (it was in the low 80's before I upped the speed). Based on what I am reading your PSU was/is not the greatest but after my current experiences using coolmax and cooler master extreme (not to be confused with the CM real power) psu's I don't know since none of these are all that great. I highly reccomending getting on one of the deals for a seasonic built antec or corsair PSU when the next deal comes up, you won't regret it. This applies even though you are currently up and running.


EDIT And yes, the 8800GTS (as well as most of the original BIOS GT's) is locked at 29% fan speed. This has been posted about before and I also experienced it. Until I had riva tuner installed and modified to work for the new GTS I could not change the fan speed, even using the nvidia drivers.

 

[mruffin75]

Originally posted by: taltamir
@Keysplayr2003:
The only arrogance I see in this thread is that so many people who assume to know my thoughts and motives... how do they KNOW I was unable to even contemplate that I was wrong? How do you know that I didn't think... gee, I could be wrong but hard facts here tell me that I am right... I can't deny hard facts.
If you thought I did not hold such a view point then you simply did not read my posts carefully enough and missed the parts where I said so. Or maybe I have structured it in a way that makes it easily overlookable.

People may be getting this impression of you from the way you express yourself on the board? You may have perfectly great reasons to say what you do, it just may be the way you write it on here that makes them think you are arrogant/have an attitude/whatever..
Afterall, all we can go on is what you write on here.

The reason there was a problem was because a bunch of trolls (there, I said it) came in here and began personally insulting me about an issue barely related to the thread (my choice of power supply has little relevance to the fact that frys stocked a defective card... it only changes weather it was my fault it broke, which I even admitted it MIGHT have been)... As soon as I showed hard proof that I was right every single one of them disappeared, notice the last page only had ONE person who was part of the original argument... nitromullet, and he was NOT rude, insulting, or offensive in his posts during the argument, but cordial and understanding, he simply disagreed with me... yet all the people who WERE personally attacking me, and formed the bulk of the offensive, disappeared without a trace, unwilling to admit their mistake.

I said congratulations on the working card... guess you missed that...

Maybe I'm just more experienced with the big-box stores than you, but the fact that Fry's put the card back on the shelf didn't shock me whatsoever... BestBuy, Circuit City, all the big names would do the same thing. When they have the "no questions asked" return policies, they would always do this, otherwise they'd have to pay people to check non-defective products returned as "defective"....why pay someone when you can just get the next customer to check it for you? Also, did you ask for a different card or a refund? If it was a refund, I can understand why he put it back on the shelf..

That's also why you can also pick up a product from a store like that apparently "new", take it home and open it up and find the parts all over the place (or even missing!). We had purchased a "brand new" Samsung A/C at Best Buy once... took it home and found that someone had left all the screws laying in the box (no plastic bag...and some had obviously left the box through a hole), and that the A/C had been dropped or something as the fan would hit against the chassis as it ran. So obviously someone damaged it, and just took it back and said "oh it doesn't fit our window" or some other stupid excuse.

While shops allow people to return products for any reason, you'll always get this type of thing.

I don't know if the nice people got caught up with the fact it seemed to have been me vs everyone, so it must be the single person who is wrong.
Or weather they would have genuinely believed that my PSU was inadequate under different circumstances... but I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I thought your PSU *may* have been underpowered, and it could have been heat related as well... again, it was just the way you presented your "evidence". It really sounded like you were dismissing the power supply because of "past experience" with others. Again, just how you present yourself in your posts.

After being employed in the repair industry for the last 12 years, I've seen all sorts of things happen. So to dismiss a power supply just because it *says* it can handle it, is a bad idea.. I'd always suspect all parts.

Then again I also would have had a 2nd PC I could have tried it in to check to see if it was the card or not before I sent it back.

 

[Owls]

I went and bought 4GB of DDR2 for my laptop from Frys. I open the package and A RAM CHIP ACTUALLY FELL OFF.

They sold this crap as new? Hope Frys burns in hell.