I Sell Dead Babies

[Blue_Max]

I actually don't think he's being callous. I have several kids but I tend to agree with him. Our kids are here because my wife and I made the
choice to have them. I don't want that choice taken from us due to illogical religious beliefs. Nor can I believe a fertilized zygote is the same as a baby since this makes all parents killers of children due to the high rate of spontaneous abortion.

Now we're getting somewhere. It would seem that any subject can have its polar opposites at either extreme end. There's the religious zealots hotly against abortion and insist it's a child from the first cell division. Then there are the other end who insist "it's not a baby until birth" and fully reserve the right to kill it like an unwanted tapeworm until that very moment.

The truth lies in the middle somewhere. It's been medically proven that "the unborn" can feel/sense things (including pain, for this conversation) AT A CERTAIN POINT. Where? I'll have to look that up again, but IIRC it's somewhere at or just before the middle of the term, which is why I'm personally against LATE-TERM abortions.

Reminds me of the buck-toothed, fat, raging, Burger King feminist kicking down signs and punching out pro-lifers insisting that at 16-20 week it's still "just a clump of cells".

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You are venturing into a weird area with Cerpin Taxt. The callousness of him towards the unborn is unrivaled.

It is the nature of facts that they are sometimes uncomfortable for people. They don't walk on eggshells or tip-toe around our delicate sensibilities. They just keep on being all factual and whatnot, not giving two shits what we think.

It is a gross misapprehension on your part to suppose that I am personally unaffected or apathetic to the lost potentials with every abortion, however. I would like to see the abortions demanded by women minimized as much as possible. I simply do not allow those emotions to overcome my reason, and I don't take anyone seriously who cannot accomplish the same meager feat.

 

[Blue_Max]

It is a gross misapprehension on your part to suppose that I am personally unaffected or apathetic to the lost potentials with every abortion, however. I would like to see the abortions demanded by women minimized as much as possible. I simply do not allow those emotions to overcome my reason, and I don't take anyone seriously who cannot accomplish the same meager feat.

...am I to understand, then, that all this vitriol is merely the splitting-hairs over the terminology in question? That the squirming thingy in question is not classified as a "baby" until birth, but is classified as "foetus" for the entire duration of fertilization until birth?

Technically, that would be correct -- however, there are intangibles implied with those terms that can purposely muddle opinions and thoughts when discussing a later-term pregnancy (like from around the halfway-point onwards, I'd say.)

You may have noticed I have a real problem with people so blind (and/or stupid) as to follow that terminology logic to the extreme and still think that at 7-8 months it's still "merely an embryo - a clump of cells or a blob of goo" incapable of any senses whatsoever. To believe such in the face of so much medical science proving them wrong is... disheartening.

 

[abj13]

which is why I'm personally against LATE-TERM abortions.

The problem is how people attempt to define "late-term" abortion. It is frankly, a game of deceptive semantics used by some as a wedge issue within abortion. Too many other people presume "late-term abortion" means many women are getting an abortion at 36 weeks of gestational age, which sounds horrible on paper. Yet, the fact is that an abortion at that stage is pretty much never done. So there's all this drumming up of fear about "late-term" abortion, when even the medical community has a debate of what the definition is.

So there's a disconnect. To medical providers, late-term abortion tends to be defined as abortions after 16 weeks or 20 weeks of gestational age. To the protesters, some believe they are doing this at 36 weeks. That's a problem when people can't even agree on what they are actually talking about.

77% of abortions are completed prior to the 10th week of gestational age.
92.6% are done prior to the 15th week
96.7% are done prior to 20 weeks
And only 1.4% is done beyond 20 weeks (how far beyond is unknown)
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5511a1.htm#tab6

And many people don't realize, the Supreme Court said in Roe v Wade that it was completely permissible to ban abortions late in gestation

 

[Brainonska511]

which is why I'm personally against LATE-TERM abortions.

And how do you define "late-term"? How many people were actually obtaining an abortion in month 6, 7, 8, or 9? I'd imagine that later-term abortions are not of the type "oops", but more along the lines of 1) fatal or severe birth defect (eg: no brain) or 2) Pregnancy will result in severe injury or death of the mother.

But regardless of that, the strawman notion that people go into abortions willy-nilly is frankly ridiculous and rather disgusting characterization. I doubt anyone makes these decisions lightly. The attempts by the anti-choice crowd to build barriers to facile access to abortion (in terms of time limits, delays, and costs), while simultaneously supporting policies that hurt family planning, comprehensive sexual education, access to healthcare/birth control, not supporting free daycare (so people can go to work/school while their child is taken care of), and cutting welfare seems to suggest that the anti-choice crowd simply wants to punish women for having control of their sexual agency and/or being poor.

 

[Newell Steamer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/opinion/the-campaign-of-deception-against-planned-parenthood.html

According to a letter sent by Roger Evans, a lawyer for Planned Parenthood, to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, the video is a result of a yearslong campaign of deception. The head of the Center for Medical Progress, David Daleiden, created a fake company called Biomax Procurement Services almost three years ago for the purpose of tricking Planned Parenthood employees, the letter alleges, even setting up exhibits at Planned Parenthood’s national conferences. The letter also says Biomax offered a Planned Parenthood affiliate $1,600 for a fetal liver and thymus, presumably to trap the affiliate in the act of accepting a high payment for fetal tissue. The affiliate declined.

Oh, it gets gooder,..

Anti-abortion groups have long pushed to defund Planned Parenthood, even though no federal money is used to provide abortions. But that hasn’t stopped their efforts to shut down the clinics, which provide services like contraception, cancer screening and other tests.

B-b-but there are Obama phones!! Which are used to call in a helicopter to transport the mother to an abortion clinic to kill teh fetus!!!!shift+1!!!!

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

...am I to understand, then, that all this vitriol is merely the splitting-hairs over the terminology in question?

No, you are not to understand that because it is not the case.

That the squirming thingy in question is not classified as a "baby" until birth, but is classified as "foetus" for the entire duration of fertilization until birth?

Specifically, it is a zygote, an embryo, and then a fetus.

Technically, that would be correct -- however, there are intangibles implied with those terms that can purposely muddle opinions and thoughts when discussing a later-term pregnancy (like from around the halfway-point onwards, I'd say.)

Like the false epithets, "murderer," and "baby killer" thrown around by the anti-choice, women-hating, trogolodyte republicans? Of course.

You may have noticed I have a real problem with people so blind (and/or stupid) as to follow that terminology logic to the extreme and still think that at 7-8 months it's still "merely an embryo - a clump of cells or a blob of goo" incapable of any senses whatsoever.

What the fuck are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the terminology. Also, who has said that at 7-8 months it is "merely and embryo - a clump of cells or a blob of good." Surely it wasn't me, so what the fuck does it have to do with me?

To believe such in the face of so much medical science proving them wrong is... disheartening.

Medical science has nothing to say about the terms we use.

 

[CitizenKain]

The truth lies in the middle somewhere. It's been medically proven that "the unborn" can feel/sense things (including pain, for this conversation) AT A CERTAIN POINT. Where? I'll have to look that up again, but IIRC it's somewhere at or just before the middle of the term, which is why I'm personally against LATE-TERM abortions.

Good, then don't get a late-term abortion. Problem solved!

 

[WHAMPOM]

In a sane and knee-jerkless world a woman could go to her doctor to confirm a suspected pregnancy and schedule her choice of prenatal care or an abortion. All between her and her doctor without politicians and other lackeys interference.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Now we're getting somewhere. It would seem that any subject can have its polar opposites at either extreme end. There's the religious zealots hotly against abortion and insist it's a child from the first cell division. Then there are the other end who insist "it's not a baby until birth" and fully reserve the right to kill it like an unwanted tapeworm until that very moment.

The truth lies in the middle somewhere. It's been medically proven that "the unborn" can feel/sense things (including pain, for this conversation) AT A CERTAIN POINT. Where? I'll have to look that up again, but IIRC it's somewhere at or just before the middle of the term, which is why I'm personally against LATE-TERM abortions.

Reminds me of the buck-toothed, fat, raging, Burger King feminist kicking down signs and punching out pro-lifers insisting that at 16-20 week it's still "just a clump of cells".

Late term abortions? All of five or six per state? Look up the reasons they are not usually on "demand."

 

[Brainonska511]

Late term abortions? All of five or six per state? Look up the reasons they are not usually on "demand."

Statistics and facts? Please. We all know abortion doctors and women are conspiring to kill as many babies as possible and revel in the thought.

 

[CitizenKain]

Statistics and facts? Please. We all know abortion doctors and women are conspiring to kill as many babies as possible and revel in the thought.

I know I certainly do.

 

[Blue_Max]

Good, then don't get a late-term abortion. Problem solved!

Except that's what this whole thread is about. Partial-birth abortions ARE late-term so there are formed organs to harvest.

With all the arguing over terminology and personal rights, etc, I'm not surprised why so many have forgotten why this is a "bad thing" in the first place.

 

[ivwshane]

Except that's what this whole thread is about. Partial-birth abortions ARE late-term so there are formed organs to harvest.

With all the arguing over terminology and personal rights, etc, I'm not surprised why so many have forgotten why this is a "bad thing" in the first place.

And somehow you still missed his point...

 

[Blue_Max]

And somehow you still missed his point...

riiiight... trying to change the subject again, eh?

 

[ivwshane]

riiiight... trying to change the subject again, eh?

Nope! We are still on topic, you just seem incapable of following along

 

[Blue_Max]

Nope! We are still on topic, you just seem incapable of following along

Ooooo goodie! Baseless insults for the WIN! *sploosh*

 

[ivwshane]

Ooooo goodie! Baseless insults for the WIN! *sploosh*

Nope! It was based on fact. You failed to understand another posters point and because of that misunderstanding, when it was pointed out to you, you then claimed I'm trying to change the subject. When I explain to you your failing you then, again, refuse to admit your error. Baseless insult not found.

Would you like to triple down on stupid?

 

[Blue_Max]

Nope! It was based on fact. You failed to understand another posters point and because of that misunderstanding, when it was pointed out to you, you then claimed I'm trying to change the subject. When I explain to you your failing you then, again, refuse to admit your error. Baseless insult not found.

Would you like to triple down on stupid?

He didn't have or make a "point" to prove. "Don't get a late term abortion" is all he said. You expect a standing ovation on it?

Then you hurled the insults "stupid stupid STUPID" for not giving him feminist jazzhands in total support for the non-statement?

I'll continue to stand by my statement that by the time you can harvest usable organs from a fetus (20-24+ weeks?) it's callous to be going through partial-birth abortion (let alone to sell your child's organs.)

I'll also make sure it's known that I understand that there are some extreme cases (far less than 1% of pregnancies) where the mother's life is in danger and a late-term abortion is recommended. I can support that - I'm not as stupid OR heartless as you claim me to be. (I'm expecting a childish insult for that line, try to impress me.)

 

[sandorski]

He didn't have or make a "point" to prove. "Don't get a late term abortion" is all he said. You expect a standing ovation on it?

Then you hurled the insults "stupid stupid STUPID" for not giving him feminist jazzhands in total support for the non-statement?

I'll continue to stand by my statement that by the time you can harvest usable organs from a fetus (20-24+ weeks?) it's callous to be going through partial-birth abortion (let alone to sell your child's organs.)

I'll also make sure it's known that I understand that there are some extreme cases (far less than 1% of pregnancies) where the mother's life is in danger and a late-term abortion is recommended. I can support that - I'm not as stupid OR heartless as you claim me to be. (I'm expecting a childish insult for that line, try to impress me.)

No one is Selling organs.

 

[FelixDeCat]

No one is Selling organs.

No, they just use euphemisms

 

[CitizenKain]

Except that's what this whole thread is about. Partial-birth abortions ARE late-term so there are formed organs to harvest.

With all the arguing over terminology and personal rights, etc, I'm not surprised why so many have forgotten why this is a "bad thing" in the first place.

No it isn't. It is about an organization falsifying evidence that there is a gigantic conspiracy to harvest baby organs. You are the one making it about something else entirely because you are a dipshit.
Stupid and dishonest, the blue_max story. Maybe stick with screaming about how women are mean and gross and don't let you touch them in the gamergate thread, its more your speed.

 

[Blue_Max]

No it isn't. It is about an organization falsifying evidence that there is a gigantic conspiracy to harvest baby organs. You are the one making it about something else entirely because you are a dipshit.
Stupid and dishonest, the blue_max story. Maybe stick with screaming about how women are mean and gross and don't let you touch them in the gamergate thread, its more your speed.

Your gender studies professor would be very happy to hear the programming has firmly taken hold.

You just can't deviate from the "shaming" formula. Not ever. Debate or discussion is impossible - it's *accept your argument without question or receive shame & insults*.

*sigh*

 

[highland145]

Do they sell the private parts to pedobears?

 

[sandorski]

Your gender studies professor would be very happy to hear the programming has firmly taken hold.

You just can't deviate from the "shaming" formula. Not ever. Debate or discussion is impossible - it's *accept your argument without question or receive shame & insults*.

*sigh*

Ironic post is Ironic.