I squat more than I deadlift

[enwar3]

Could this be due to lack of lower back strength? At the beginning of my pull my torso-floor angle decreases a tiny bit, but after that I can manage to stay solid until the bar reaches my knees. Nevertheless, I deadlift very little more than I squat, and I hear you're supposed to be able to deadlift quite a bit more than you squat.

 

[BeauJangles]

What is the difference in lifts? Your post is confusing -- your title says you deadlift less and your body says you deadlift "a little" more.

It could be any number of issues, but most likely it's a technique issue. Often people cap out on their deadlift because they're doing something wrong or slightly incorrect. Even something as simple as switching your grip can add pounds to your deadlift.

As for you last sentence, yes. Most people can deadlift significantly more than they squat because the deadlift use your strongest muscles in their most efficient way. For instance, I can deadlift nearly 90 lbs more than I can squat, which is because my legs are strong and my upper body is weak.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

i do too. i just can't keep my back straight with the straight bar.

 

[brikis98]

It's most likely an issue of technique - either you don't deadlift properly, or you aren't squatting to full depth (you can half/quarter squat much more than you can full squat). As usual, I recommend getting the Starting Strength book and spending some time reading the chapters on squatting and deadlifting. It's likely you're thinking of the deadlift as an exercise where you "pull with your back", which is completely the wrong mental cue. It's actually an exercise where you drive your hips forward by tightening your glutes/hamstrings as hard as you can. The only role of your back muscles in the deadlift is keeping your spine rigid. The actual movement is generated by first the quads (bar below the knees) and then the glutes and hamstrings (above the knees). The bar should be in contact with your shins, knees and thighs the entire way up.

 

[DarkMadMax]

Originally posted by: brikis98
you can. The only role of your back muscles in the deadlift is keeping your spine rigid. The actual movement is generated by first the quads (bar below the knees) and then the glutes and hamstrings (above the knees). The bar should be in contact with your shins, knees and thighs the entire way up.

You underestimate role of lower back. Especially in conventional - past the knees lower back role increases more and more and lockout is ALL back.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: DarkMadMax

Originally posted by: brikis98
you can. The only role of your back muscles in the deadlift is keeping your spine rigid. The actual movement is generated by first the quads (bar below the knees) and then the glutes and hamstrings (above the knees). The bar should be in contact with your shins, knees and thighs the entire way up.

You underestimate role of lower back. Especially in conventional - past the knees lower back role increases more and more and lockout is ALL back.

If done correctly, lockout should only be a few inches. Most of the people I see with poor form start trying to lock out well before they should. This results in something like a foot of lockout, which is wrong. DL's are definitely a back and legs exercise, but it shouldn't be solely back.

 

[Eric62]

It's all about leverages.
If you have long legs your squat will suffer. Dwarfs are great at squatting.
If you have short arms and long torso your deadlift will suffer. Dwarfs are horrible at deadlifting.
Small knees, ankles, and hips will hurt your squat more than your deadlifts.
Strong hams, and weak quads will favor deadlifts. The opposite will favor squats.
Andy Bolton squats 200+ more than he deadlifts (and he deadlifted 1003 in competition). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Bolton
There aren't any set rules on which should be your best lift.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Eric62
It's all about leverages.
If you have long legs your squat will suffer. Dwarfs are great at squatting.
If you have short arms and long torso your deadlift will suffer. Dwarfs are horrible at deadlifting.
Small knees, ankles, and hips will hurt your squat more than your deadlifts.
Strong hams, and weak quads will favor deadlifts. The opposite will favor squats.
Andy Bolton squats 200+ more than he deadlifts (and he deadlifted 1003 in competition). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Bolton
There aren't any set rules on which should be your best lift.

Again, for 99.99% of people, their deadlift should be greater than their squat. Unless the OP has freakish limbs, then the reason his deadlift is less than his squat is a form issue.

For powerlifters, there are a whole mess of reasons they can more often squat more than they deadlift. A lot of them don't do true squats -- they will not go below parallel. A lot of them use fancy equipment which benefits the squat more than the deadlift.

I think that when you shed a lot of the equipment these guys use, they start falling more in line with the rest of us.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: DarkMadMax
You underestimate role of lower back. Especially in conventional - past the knees lower back role increases more and more and lockout is ALL back.

Let me quote a couple parts of the deadlift chapter in Starting Strength:

Page 104
The basic function of the lumbar muscles is to hold the low back in position so that power can be transferred through the trunk.
...
These muscles function in isometric contraction - their main task is to prevent skeletal movement in the structures they are supporting. When the trunk is held rigid, it can function as a solid segment along which the force generated by the hips and legs can be transfered to the load.

Page 123
It is only after the bar clears the knees that the back angle, and consequently the hip angle, begins to change significantly. As hip extension begins to increase, the hip extensors - the glutes and hamstrings - become the predominant movers of the load, the quads having essentially finished their work of straightening the knee. The role of the back muscles during the pull is to hold the trunk rigid and the shoulder blades back in adduction so that the force generated by knee and hip extension can be transferred up the back to the shoulder blades, across the arms and down to the bar.

Here's a simple way to put it: in general, the muscles in your back are used to bend and unbend your spine. In a properly executed deadlift, the back stays completely flat and rigid the entire time. Therefore, your back muscles are NOT lifting the weight. But that doesn't diminish or "underestimate" their role in the deadlift: keeping your back rigid against a heavy load is a VERY demanding task. In fact, this is usually the limiting factor - your legs/hips will be able to lift more than your back can support.

In short, teaching the deadlift as an exercise where you "lift with your back" is the WRONG mental cue for a beginner. The deadlift is a leg/hip exercise which uses the back exclusively (and extensively) in a supportive role.

Originally posted by: Eric62
It's all about leverages.
If you have long legs your squat will suffer. Dwarfs are great at squatting.
If you have short arms and long torso your deadlift will suffer. Dwarfs are horrible at deadlifting.
Small knees, ankles, and hips will hurt your squat more than your deadlifts.
Strong hams, and weak quads will favor deadlifts. The opposite will favor squats.
Andy Bolton squats 200+ more than he deadlifts (and he deadlifted 1003 in competition). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Bolton
There aren't any set rules on which should be your best lift.

It's definitely true that anatomy can play a big role in your lifting abilities but assuming the OP doesn't have extreme proportions (really tall or short) and assuming he's relatively new to squatting and deadlifting, his deadlift probably should be greater than his squat. Once you get up to competitive levels (especially those of Andy Bolton) and are dealing with the limits of the human body, anatomy will play a much bigger role in how much you squat and deadlift. Moreover, the technique used for squatting and deadlifting at these higher levels - sumo stance, bent upper back for deadlifts, wraps, straps, special suits, etc - can affect the numbers a lot and are quite different than what beginners should expect. In short, it's *far* more likely the op squats more than he deadlifts due to form errors than due to anatomy.

 

[Eric62]

Every powerlifting federation requires a successful squat to break parallel. There are NO exceptions to that rule.
You are correct regarding equipment. It helps the squat (and bench) more than the deadlift.
I'd love to see the stats that support your claim that 99.99% of lifters can deadlift more than they squat...
Pick up any issue of Powerlifting USA and you'll see regardless of weight class it's roughly a 60/40 split favoring squats. I'm part of the 40% - as I have long arms which reduces range of motion on that particular lift.

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: Eric62
Every powerlifting federation requires a successful squat to break parallel. There are NO exceptions to that rule.

IPA, SPF, APA.

You are correct regarding equipment. It helps the squat (and bench) more than the deadlift.
I'd love to see the stats that support your claim that 99.99% of lifters can deadlift more than they squat...
Pick up any issue of Powerlifting USA and you'll see regardless of weight class it's roughly a 60/40 split favoring squats. I'm part of the 40% - as I have long arms which reduces range of motion on that particular lift.

Without squat suits, the vast majority of lifters can deadlift more than they squat.
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/25254469-post18.html

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Eric62
Every powerlifting federation requires a successful squat to break parallel. There are NO exceptions to that rule.
You are correct regarding equipment. It helps the squat (and bench) more than the deadlift.
I'd love to see the stats that support your claim that 99.99% of lifters can deadlift more than they squat...
Pick up any issue of Powerlifting USA and you'll see regardless of weight class it's roughly a 60/40 split favoring squats. I'm part of the 40% - as I have long arms which reduces range of motion on that particular lift.

Gotcha on the rule, and my 99.99 percent is clearly hyperbole. But I believe that for the vast majority of lifters, particularly amateurs and those not using any special equipment, their DL should be greater than their bench. Again, I don't know the percentages, but I'd wager it's pretty darn high.

 

[Eric62]

Originally posted by: crt1530

Originally posted by: Eric62
Every powerlifting federation requires a successful squat to break parallel. There are NO exceptions to that rule.

IPA, SPF, APA.

You are correct regarding equipment. It helps the squat (and bench) more than the deadlift.
I'd love to see the stats that support your claim that 99.99% of lifters can deadlift more than they squat...
Pick up any issue of Powerlifting USA and you'll see regardless of weight class it's roughly a 60/40 split favoring squats. I'm part of the 40% - as I have long arms which reduces range of motion on that particular lift.

Without squat suits, the vast majority of lifters can deadlift more than they squat.
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/25254469-post18.html

IPA modified their rules to be accepted by Powerlifting USA (about 10 years ago) to require all squats to break parallel. I'm not familiar with the other two federations you mentioned but a quick google for APA http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/federations/apa doesn't mention any variation of the squat rule. Granted there are several Federations with loose judging standards (APF, WPO, SLA) and other with very strict standards (IPF, USPF, USAPL). But to be recognized by Powerlifting USA you have to squat below parallel (or at least the rules of the federation must require it) - just contact Mike Lambert and ask. http://www.giftofstrength.com/powerlifting_usa.htm
You're RAW examples all allow the use of belts - not really RAW IMO.
What of the millions of football players that squat (and do retard hang cleans to develop explosiveness - lol) but don't deadlift at all? Their potential to deadlift more might be there, but with out actually deadlifting it's wasted potential...

 

[disports]

I squat (315 lbs) more than I deadlift (285 lbs), but not much by.

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: Eric62

Originally posted by: crt1530

Originally posted by: Eric62
Every powerlifting federation requires a successful squat to break parallel. There are NO exceptions to that rule.

IPA, SPF, APA.

You are correct regarding equipment. It helps the squat (and bench) more than the deadlift.
I'd love to see the stats that support your claim that 99.99% of lifters can deadlift more than they squat...
Pick up any issue of Powerlifting USA and you'll see regardless of weight class it's roughly a 60/40 split favoring squats. I'm part of the 40% - as I have long arms which reduces range of motion on that particular lift.

Without squat suits, the vast majority of lifters can deadlift more than they squat.
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/25254469-post18.html

IPA modified their rules to be accepted by Powerlifting USA (about 10 years ago) to require all squats to break parallel. I'm not familiar with the other two federations you mentioned but a quick google for APA http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/federations/apa doesn't mention any variation of the squat rule. Granted there are several Federations with loose judging standards (APF, WPO, SLA) and other with very strict standards (IPF, USPF, USAPL). But to be recognized by Powerlifting USA you have to squat below parallel (or at least the rules of the federation must require it) - just contact Mike Lambert and ask. http://www.giftofstrength.com/powerlifting_usa.htm
You're RAW examples all allow the use of belts - not really RAW IMO.
What of the millions of football players that squat (and do retard hang cleans to develop explosiveness - lol) but don't deadlift at all? Their potential to deadlift more might be there, but with out actually deadlifting it's wasted potential...

Pretty much all federations copied the original AAU/USPF/IPF rulebook. The feds I mentioned do not follow the rules as they are written in their own rulebook. As far as belts go, all federations that have raw divisions allow belts and belts have much more carryover in the squat than they do in the deadlift. If somebody trains both the squat and deadlift, 90+% of the time they will have a higher deadlift regardless of belt use. I do not count people like smithrwon who have no idea about proper squat depth.

 

[Eric62]

^^^ You are way more knowledgeable of the sport of powerlifting than I'd expect to find on a computer geek forum. What's your background in the sport?

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: Eric62
^^^ You are way more knowledgeable of the sport of powerlifting than I'd expect to find on a computer geek forum. What's your background in the sport?

I've competed once (August of 2007). I am not big into competing, but I do enjoy lifting weights and keeping track of what's going on in the strength sports world (powerlifting, weightlifting, strongman). I'll probably do another meet when I think I can hit a "raw elite" total (1551@220 or 1471@198). I'm getting close (my current PRs are 551/316/616@~210), so maybe sometime next year.

 

[Eric62]

Good luck in your training, and reaching your goals. Sherdog is an interesting forum...

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Eric62
^^^ You are way more knowledgeable of the sport of powerlifting than I'd expect to find on a computer geek forum. What's your background in the sport?

There are definitely a surprising number of folks here that know quite a bit about PLing/BBing. I suppose it shows the changing face (and body) of the nerd.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Eric62
^^^ You are way more knowledgeable of the sport of powerlifting than I'd expect to find on a computer geek forum. What's your background in the sport?

There are definitely a surprising number of folks here that know quite a bit about PLing/BBing. I suppose it shows the changing face (and body) of the nerd.

I wouldn't give most nerds that much credit. I think that it's just because this forum attracts a wide audience. We have all sorts of people on these boards -- system admins, programmers, firefighters, cops, dentists, doctors, lawyers, etc so it's not surprising to see a small group that knows their shit about lifting.

 

[alexeikgb]

Hmm... I DL more than Squat... DL max 500x1 ... my squat max ~375x1 (not sure, havent maxed for a while) ... but the squat I go past parallel and try to go as deep as possible.