"I studied computer science, not English. I still can’t find a job."

[Svnla]

Did college grads waste their time for 4 years and did not get the necessary skill sets? This guy thinks so. What do ya'll think?

but if you’re going to spend all that money for a college education, shouldn’t you expect to learn real-world skills from people who know what they’re doing?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...ineering-not-english-i-still-cant-find-a-job/

 

[AznAnarchy99]

College is not about learning a job. You go to trade school if you want that.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Slightly off-topic question: Does anyone here HONESTLY consider CS a STEM degree? Really?

 

[vi edit]

Slightly off-topic question: Does anyone here HONESTLY consider CS a STEM degree? Really?

A true CS program, sure. One of the "softer" degrees like MIS, no.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I had the impulse to shit on him, but I have to admit that he isn't completely off target. I know a number of engineers/programmers, and basically all of them got to where they are with languages learned and practiced on their own time, not just because they took a class. And that really applies to a lot in life; college is nice, but you can't be expected to have all knowledge spoon-fed for you in life.

 

[Aikouka]

My degree was supposed to make me qualified as a programmer, but by the time I left school, all of the software and programming languages I’d learned had been obsolete for years.

One of the quickest things that you learn after getting a real job in software engineering is that college wasn't about learning languages! The purpose of the courses in college is to teach you the mechanics and concepts for solving the problems of building everything from low-level to high-level software applications (including firmware, which some consider to be "hardware").

Businesses aren’t looking for college grads, they’re looking for employees who can actually do things – like build iPhone apps, manage ad campaigns and write convincing marketing copy. I wish I’d been taught how to do those things in school, but my college had something different in mind.

Ultimately, he's learning one aspect of software engineering the hard way: it's one of the few jobs that doesn't necessarily require a college degree to be adequate at it. You can prove your worth through presenting finished software products, hardware showing your integration capabilities, design artifacts, etc. Arguably, the hardest part about not having a degree is just getting past the initial culling at most larger places, which gets to the next point.

The easiest way to get a job in most areas is networking. I got my first job because my aunt worked at the place and she passed my resume around to some of the hiring managers.

Programs like Cedarville’s (along with existing college internship programs) are smart ways to impart real-world knowledge while in school.

The bolded part is something that I usually stress to computer science majors. Try to get an internship. My professors were pretty good about showing us places where we could apply for internships, and I did work one between my junior and senior year of college. Let me tell you... it'll show you quite a bit that you probably never knew about. It also looks good that you can list different tools (IDEs, CM tools, etc.) that you got to work with that you probably will never touch at college. How many fresh graduates go into a job interview being able to profess that they have used Serena Dimensions? Probably not too many!

EDIT:

Slightly off-topic question: Does anyone here HONESTLY consider CS a STEM degree? Really?

In my experience, Computer Science is considered a discipline under the Mathematics umbrella. Psst... the 'M' in STEM stands for Mathematics!

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

1. Article writer complains that the programming he learned was useless for when he entered the workforce. As if to say, he was learning programming languages of past time.

A: That is your own damn fucking fault detective dipshit. If I get a degree in CS and have 5 classes in Advanced COBOL do you think I'm going to be swimming in job offers everywhere I turn? Or If I do VB do you honestly think thats an amazing skill? You're a dime a dozen. Also, your education evolves with your tradeskill, you need to adapt or die. If you don't learn the new languages as they come out, you're just as stupid of a fuck as someone who says "I can work this machinery in this expensive warehouse plant they are about to outsource to China. I better not do something smart like learn the next upcoming or new tradeskill".


2..

Fuck man I can't go on. This guy is retarded beyond repair. He sounds like some old bastard who went into college at 35 or something, barely graduated, and is saying "Wooaoooaah the world is moving too fast for me!". You also have to do shit (regardless of your graduation) like get off your ass and apply for places - in addition to not being completely social inept for interviews.

The man is fucking bitching nonstop about having to learn terminology and wants everything spelled out for him with charts, graphs, and pretty applications on an iPad. People like this just seem to always have sand in their vagina because all they can manage to do is complain "Ohhh man, I have to like... read this book and learn these terms and methodology! Then I'm going to have to write a paper to make sure I understand how they apply to real world! This is SOOOO useless!"

fake edit: And holy shit, you have problems telling the difference between the terms marketing and advertising? People like this shithead just need to be hit over the head with a bat repeatedly.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

A true CS program, sure. One of the "softer" degrees like MIS, no.

MIS is obviously a Business Degree (which I am). I get the fact that CS is "under" the school of Math a lot of times, but I find it god damn laughable to be considered a math degree in all honesty. There wasn't any other elements of math outside of some advanced calc (which I had to take for my CIS degree anyway).

I heavily debated between my CIS degree and going CS. Originally I was going to stick my nerd and go CS, but realized the opportunity was clear and cut within CIS.

 

[brianmanahan]

hey, i almost went to cedarville. way too pricey though, compared to the full ride tuition i got at a state school

and this guy is a baby. you can't just put in your hours with classes and expect that to get you a job. you actually have to take some initiative and learn new things. sounds like he just expected to be spoonfed.

 

[Aikouka]

I get the fact that CS is "under" the school of Math a lot of times, but I find it god damn laughable to be considered a math degree in all honesty. There wasn't any other elements of math outside of some advanced calc (which I had to take for my CIS degree anyway).

It isn't considered to be related to Mathematics because you take a lot of math classes, but because the roots of Computer Science are all based in math. I'm not sure if this example will apply to most, but look back on your high school days. When was the first time that you experienced logic being used? For me, it was 9th grade geometry doing geometric proofs. The logical aspect of math is where Computer Science relates.

 

[OverVolt]

Sounds like he needs to go back to graduate school!

A "Real" Grad School Ad - College Humor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M98x-FLp7E

 

[OverVolt]

Slightly off-topic question: Does anyone here HONESTLY consider CS a STEM degree? Really?

CS is one of the best STEM degrees IMO. What the hell is someone supposed to do with Physics/Chemistry/Biology except get a masters/phd.

The T is for technology!

 

[OverVolt]

When I graduated from Penn State a year ago, I thought I was perfectly prepared to succeed in the business world. I’d worked hard, graduated at the top of my class in computer science and managed to acquire lots of experience with the sorts of industry software that I was sure hiring managers were looking for.

I'll stick up for the guy. How many of you were in the top of your class? Is a 3.5gpa doing internships better than a 3.9gpa? You bet. But thats his main complaint. What was the point of the college credits at all then?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Computer science is also overly saturated, everybody wants to "work with computers" now but companies keep downsizing IT and other computer related jobs, or outsourcing them altogether. I guess it depends on location as well. Obviously there will be more tech jobs in places that have companies like Apple or Microsoft but very hard to get in.

Construction trades is really the place to go, you can't really outsource a job that needs physical presence, and there's plenty of work, whether it's electrical, plumbing, hvac or other types of contracting. I sometimes regret not going that route as while I do have an awesome job now, if I lost it, there's really nothing else and I'd be screwed.

Been keeping my eye open for tech related jobs just to get an idea of what's available and it's scary how there's really nothing here.

 

[Aikouka]

Computer science is also overly saturated, everybody wants to "work with computers" now but companies keep downsizing IT and other computer related jobs, or outsourcing them altogether.

Computer Science isn't IT. Also, if you want to avoid your job being outsourced, go work in the defense industry. It isn't a jab at the US's high defense spending, but rather the fact that the ITAR regulations on exports (information, physical tech, etc.) make outsourcing a nightmare if not impossible.

 

[_Rick_]

The employers I contact usually are aware that University grads don't always have programming skills, and don't expect them, but then I usually apply for "non-programming" jobs, because that's what I went to University for.
I'm not going to be somebody's code bitch. If you want to be a code bitch, then instead of spending money on college, spend some time working on an open source project, right out of school. Cheaper, more productive, and way more likely to get you employment as a coder/developer.
If you actually want to do Computer Science, then you should go to college. A developer is not a computer scientist though.

 

[pcgeek11]

I esp. liked this statement:

Businesses aren’t looking for college grads, they’re looking for employees who can actually do things

Go to trade school.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

College is not about learning a job. You go to trade school if you want that.

That might be true for wealthier individuals, but if you're middle class or below and go to college, you should be analyzing the various degrees and the ROI on each before making a decision. Nothing in life is guaranteed, but if you're going to go into debt for a degree, an engineering degree is a safer bet than a degree in women's studies.

 

[OverVolt]

That might be true for wealthier individuals, but if you're middle class or below and go to college, you should be analyzing the various degrees and the ROI on each before making a decision. Nothing in life is guaranteed, but if you're going to go into debt for a degree, an engineering degree is a safer bet than a degree in women's studies.

ROI multiplied by the dropout rate of engineers (risk) abra kadabra you're full of doo doo.

Then that $40k/year 99% graduation rate education degree starts looking pretty nice!

 

[vi edit]

I've had time to go back and read the article and I really do agree with him for the most part. College *does not* prepare you for a job. It's not much different than the classroom time for Med School. How much real stuff do you learn in classroom besides terminology and textbook things? You don't really learn to be a doctor until you get on the floor of a hospital and start learning from real doctors and other clinicians.

With many of these types of degrees if you don't have the opportunity to get real hands on experience either through an internship, some kind of research grant, or luck in through a job while in college it is *very* hard to make yourself look remotely desirable to an employer when you are out.

And that's the other half of the problem. There are very, very few entry level jobs available any more. There are a lot of positions out there, but the requirements for them are impossible for a new grad to meet.

It's really a shitty deal for new grads. If there is anything that should be hammered home it's to do everything you can get a relevant internship while in college at a company with a recognized name/recognized in your field. Soak up everything you can get from that and do everything you can to work on getting job with them after you graduate.

You can't just just go through the classroom based studies and think you are good to go.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Sounds like he needs to go back to graduate school!

A "Real" Grad School Ad - College Humor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M98x-FLp7E

LOL.

I was curious about an intern from my last job, so I looked into what she was up to these days. She is in a PhD program for Sports Management. Seriously? Is that some sort of joke?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

ROI multiplied by the dropout rate of engineers (risk) abra kadabra you're full of doo doo.

I was using engineering as an example. I realize not everyone can be an engineer. There are "easier" degrees that have far better chances than a liberal arts degree like women's studies. Like....

Then that $40k/year 99% graduation rate education degree starts looking pretty nice.

Anyone paying $40K/year for a degree in education is dumb. There is no reason to pay that kind of money. At any rate, education degrees are among the easiest obtainable degrees and you can at least find jobs as teachers.

 

[vi edit]

I was using engineering as an example. I realize not everyone can be an engineer. There are "easier" degrees that have far better chances than a liberal arts degree like women's studies. Like....



Anyone paying $40K/year for a degree in education is dumb. There is no reason to pay that kind of money. At any rate, education degrees are among the easiest obtainable degrees and you can at least find jobs as teachers.

Only certain subjects are readily available for positions. And they are...drumroll please....STEM based subjects

Heck the government has to offer special loan programs to future math teachers to get them to bite. But social science teachers? Good luck. My cousin is from IL and graduated with a history teaching degree. He had to settle for substitute gig in Texas because that was all he could find after searching for jobs for the last 6 months.

Another guy that I game with also has a history degree and is trying to land a teaching gig and he's in the same boat. Graduated in May and still nothing.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Only certain subjects are readily available for positions. And they are...drumroll please....STEM based subjects

Heck the government has to offer special loan programs to future math teachers to get them to bite. But social science teachers? Good luck. My cousin is from IL and graduated with a history teaching degree. He had to settle for substitute gig in Texas because that was all he could find after searching for jobs for the last 6 months.

Another guy that I game with also has a history degree and is trying to land a teaching gig and he's in the same boat. Graduated in May and still nothing.

I hope those guys don't have a lot of school loan debt.

I feel bad for these kids. I don't know what I'd do if I were graduating from college today. It seems everything (including STEM) is risky.

 

[halik]

Did college grads waste their time for 4 years and did not get the necessary skill sets? This guy thinks so. What do ya'll think?



http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...ineering-not-english-i-still-cant-find-a-job/

Bull fucking shit. My CS degree gave me the absolutely necessary foundations of anything that deals with computers. I can already tell this guy is fucking moron - knowing concepts like multithreading, memory management, design patterns in the critical part, who gives a shit if your assignments were in C or C++ or whatever archaic language.

EDIT: Yup, he's a fucking moron. From the first comment:

This article is completely misleading and should be taken down.


The article title was originally: "I studied engineering, not English. I still can’t find a job."
And now it is: "I studied computer science, not English. I still can’t find a job. "

However looking up his profile, he actually studied: Management Information Systems.

This is completely different than Comp Sci.

CS to MIS is what MD is to Hospital Information Management