I think China is really going to do it...

[kage69]

So this happened a couple days ago.

https://warisboring.com/b-1-b-2-and...of-force-9f17fca08bcb?source=latest---------1

This is an unprecedented reaction to the ongoing Chinese escalation of SCS tensions. Not a decision made lightly because everyone knows the Chinese have long adopted a very selective view on cause and effect, and are perfectly happy to accuse others of the very actions they perform regularly.

China's behavior since Xi took office was already disconcerting, but now I feel the embarrassment over The Hague's unequivocal smack down of their ridiculous claims is pushing that even farther. Too far. Xi's desire to be Mao 2.0 sounds a lot more like Deng 2.0 to me, more of this nationalist chest thumping and need to 'teach them a lesson,' which is going to result in a lot of people getting killed. The Chinese People's Party has been stoking a fevered anti-Japanese sentiment forever, and Xi certainly hasn't applied the brakes to that. More like the other pedal. https://warisboring.com/is-china-pr...hina-sea-7d7445b9a7f3?source=latest---------3

China’s defense minister, Gen. Chang Wanquan, implored the nation to ready itself for a “people’s war at sea.”

I fear the lesson (re)learned will be China's, mostly covering why it's not a good idea to shoot at Americans. Now cue Putin taking advantage of it to challenge NATO in Europe. Voila, the world is permanently fucked.

Someone cheer me up. Link me something that shows Xi extricating his head from his ass.

 

[agent00f]

China acting more like a superpower is not news.

 

[Jaskalas]

Paracel Islands have a slight geographical bias towards China.
Spratly Islands clearly have nothing to do with China, aside from them claiming the entirety of the Sea.
I cannot see the international community sitting quiet VS such an injustice as that red line.

 

[alcoholbob]

The U.S. surpassed the British Empire in GDP in 1871, but it takes time for the #1 industrial power to become to the top military power. Remember it wasn't until the Washington Treaty of 1922 there was implicit acknowledgement that the U.S Navy had finally surpassed the British Navy, which had ruled the world's oceans for over 2 centuries.

As such China won't truly start testing their superpower status until their military spending (adjusted for PPP) starts to truly converge with US spending (minus the cost of combat operations of perpetual warfare).

 

[trenchfoot]

An emerging China full of piss and vinegar wanting not only to join in the game of World Power Billiards, but wanting to run the table and own it.

Rings a familiar Empire Building Bell that's been heard throughout history.

Wait 'til the rest of the world sees China as an imminent threat rather than an exploitable resource and turns on them economically, politically and eventually, militarily.

Stay tuned.

 

[Jhhnn]

As always, it's not the territorial claims but the actual habitation & development that ultimately makes the difference. That's why the Falklands belong to the UK.

it's a great place for the US to stay out of, other than diplomatically.

The last time anybody was shooting was in 1988 between the Vietnamese & the Chinese. Nobody seems eager for more.

 

[Jaskalas]

As always, it's not the territorial claims but the actual habitation & development that ultimately makes the difference. That's why the Falklands belong to the UK.

The Falklands are large habitable islands, a couple orders of magnitude larger. Where citizens are UK and vote to remain so.
There is no such habitation on reefs barely large enough to place a landing strip.
The South China Sea is an entirely resource / economic grab by China.

Correction.
Oh, I have to correct that statement of habitation. Somehow they squeezed out a Woody Island (South China Sea). Makes it pretty clear that the Paracel Islands belong to China. Do they have anything on the Spratly Islands?

 

[kage69]

Nobody seems eager for more.

Then you haven't been paying much attention to China lately Jhhnn.

 

[1prophet]

An emerging China full of piss and vinegar wanting not only to join in the game of World Power Billiards, but wanting to run the table and own it.

Rings a familiar Empire Building Bell that's been heard throughout history.

Wait 'til the rest of the world sees China as an imminent threat rather than an exploitable resource and turns on them economically, politically and eventually, militarily.

Stay tuned.

Good luck with that, a day late and a dollar short, America and other countries are now reaping what they sow,

The Chinese played possum while your corporations fucked over the American worker so they can extract maximum profits using China,

thinking that this will go on forever telling poor displaced Americans that they need to become trained in a service economy since China is most happy to do all that dirty manufacturing/mining for pennies on the dollar,

and thanks to American greed (profit only matters) the Chinese are now in a position to demand their fair share and are showing what it was all about all along.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/b...a-are-targets-of-authorities-visits.html?_r=0

With Microsoft in Sights, China Starts to Squeeze U.S. Tech Companies

BEIJING — China, once the hottest growth market for United States technology companies, is turning chillier.

In the latest sign of the change in climate, officials from a Chinese government agency that enforces antimonopoly laws and other business regulations visited four Microsoft offices across China on Monday, the company said.

China is still one of the largest and most promising markets for United States tech companies, as well as home to the factories that make devices as varied as iPhones and Xboxes. But tensions between the United States and China have escalated over spying concerns by both sides. And in recent months Chinese authorities have increased their scrutiny of foreign tech companies.

At the same time, they appear to be stepping up their use of laws to help bolster the fortunes of native technology companies.

“The U.S. tech companies are much more concerned than they were two or three years ago,” said Robert Atkinson, president of the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation, a technology policy think tank. “Most of them were looking with growing interest at the China market. Now they’re much more concerned that the rug is being pulled out from under them.”

And for all you brainwashed corporate koolaid idiots, (republicans and democrats conservatives and liberals alike), who loved to call the people that were trying to warn you what was going on,
isolationists, anti free market, anti trade, etc. this one is for you.

In June, President Xi Jinping of China reinforced longstanding government demands that China master and control new technologies, and reduce the country’s reliance on foreign suppliers.

“Only if core technologies are in our own hands can we truly hold the initiative in competition and development,” Mr. Xi told Chinese scientists and engineers.

The Chinese used all of you in order to advance, acquire IP and build themselves up not only economically but also militarily, by exploiting your greed and now they are going to show you financial wizards the dangers of the "profit only matters" mentality and how it can be turned against you,

by those that look at money as a means not an end and take the long view as opposed to the idiots on Wall Street that can't see past the next quarterly report and don't give a damn about the country and American people that support the very system that allows them to line their pockets.

 

[Jhhnn]

Then you haven't been paying much attention to China lately Jhhnn.

Please. If the Chinese wanted to start shooting they'd blow the troops of the other contenders off their sandbars & leave their carcasses floating in the water. They're the 600 lb gorilla who can basically get most of what he wants just from posturing & actually developing the atolls he holds. The rest is just sensationalist fear mongering.

 

[Svnla]

Bully china attacked South Vietnam in 1974 while it was weak because of the civil war vs the North and took the whole Paracel Islands from Vietnam.

Bully china use machine guns to shoot unarmed sailors of Vietnam from a supply ship and took parts of Spratlys from Vietnam in 1988.

Bully china used intimidation and lies to take over the Scarborough Shoal from Philippines in 2013.

Those are facts. No wonder why everyone in the neighborhood is arming up and inviting the US back. Bully china is the one that is eager for more. Not only china is acting like an ass in South china Sea, it is pushing Japan at Senkakus Islands right now.

What's that old saying? Something about being strong and stay independence or be weak and be swallowed whole. See examples above plus Tibet, East Turk (Xinjiang), Inner Mongolia, parts of India. Bully china is acting just like Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan prior to WWII

 

[CFP]

China is just a posturing bully. They are no closer to being a superpower than I am to being a sexy male model.

What will eventually happen is they'll be taught a minor lesson, then stamp their feet and throw a tantrum, which is perfectly acceptable behavior to the Chinese.

I say this as someone who lives in China, and is half Chinese. I'm probably on a party watch list already, and it's been proven via the bookseller fiasco that Hong Kong, where I am and from, is not safe.

 

[bshole]

China is just a posturing bully. They are no closer to being a superpower than I am to being a sexy male model.

What will eventually happen is they'll be taught a minor lesson, then stamp their feet and throw a tantrum, which is perfectly acceptable behavior to the Chinese.

I say this as someone who lives in China, and is half Chinese. I'm probably on a party watch list already, and it's been proven via the bookseller fiasco that Hong Kong, where I am and from, is not safe.

I believe China will eventually evolve into a super power far larger than then US.

 

[CFP]

I believe China will eventually evolve into a super power far larger than then US.

China will collapse in on itself long before it ever threatens the world. Don't trust the numbers, or the CCP's ability to hide their underbelly, which is already necrotic. It's not just a money game.

 

[bshole]

China will collapse in on itself long before it ever threatens the world. Don't trust the numbers, or the CCP's ability to hide their underbelly, which is already necrotic. It's not just a money game.

Nothing to say about your comment other than props for the use of the term "necrotic". I like the term and this is the first time I have seen it used here.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The Paracels are rightful Chinese clay; the only reason they currently belong to Vietnam is because of French colonialism 150 years ago. Let China have 'em.

 

[CFP]

Nothing to say about your comment other than props for the use of the term "necrotic". I like the term and this is the first time I have seen it used here.

I mean, don't get me wrong, China's rapid growth and emerging military might over the last two decades has been very impressive.

But China's army are trained for domestic crowd control, rather than any kind of international attack, or even defense. The biggest danger to China right now is its own population. This is second-hand from someone I know who trained in the army, and beyond that, is fairly obvious if you just look at reports and military functions.

A huge number of armored vehicles in the Chinese military are for show only. They are parade vehicles that do not have working guns nor working ammunition.

The navy is in a similar position. Most are not well versed in tactics, and you frequently hear when US Navy ships do exercises with the Chinese that the latter are slower to the draw, and make more mistakes.

To assert that China can, anytime soon, become a global superpower is incorrect because they can only project soft power. They will stall out as a regional power, but won't threaten the global status quo all that much, especially if the US starts to get more involved in the SCS.

The necrotic underbelly i reference is the lone jenga brick upon which China's tower stands. It's an aging population suffering huge brain drain and capital drain. The corruption is so rife and entrenched culturally it will be a long time before that is eliminated. Xi made a huge show of eliminating corruption, but it was a power move. He merely transplanted people he couldn't trust with people he could control. The corruption, the broken system, is still there.

China will also soon suffer huge fresh water shortages, and the only way they'll be able to combat that is to continue to divert water off main rivers which feed the entire SEA region. Knowing htem, they'll do it anyway, but it will be met with a lot of political resistance.

Add to that the anti-biotic resistant bacteria strains that are multiplying horrendously there, paired with a culture that still generally practices folk medicine, or TCM, over any kind of empirical medicine, paired with (western) medicine being staffed by incompentent medical technicians, and you've got a recipe for disaster. Part of the reason is that in Chinese culture, the more you get, the better, and doctors are pressured to give out anti-biotics for just head colds and coughs and the like.

You'll frequently see a grandma pop an anti-biotic into her little grandchild's mouth because he complains of a sore throat (from all the smog). This is a huge problem that we won't see the true scale of until maybe 10 years down the line.

Like, economically, China has had massive growth, but the distribution of wealth is way too lopsided. Add to that hte problem with accurat enumbers (no such thing in China, it's just the way it's done), and you've got a real problem measuring their status as a country.

The only way to really assess whether or not China is ready to be called a superpower is how far they can project their power. Their hard power ends at harrassing fishing boats and crowd control in their muslim regions. Their soft power, which is political and economical, extends farther for sure. They've got Australia in their back pocket.

But the world is wisening up, and even Australia are denying China bids on a lot of infrastructure development projects.

To but it bluntly, the days of "China will be the next superpower" are gone. That's so 2008. Times have changed. They are starting to stall out, and soon will have too many domestic issues to face, many of which are still being kept secret, hidden, or are simply under reported by global media.

 

[Tequila]

Not worried about China until this becomes a reality https://www.rt.com/news/341172-hypersonic-missile-test-china/

Then I will be worried especially if they give a few to North Korea.

 

[John Connor]

The Chinese played possum while your corporations fucked over the American worker so they can extract maximum profits using China,

It is due in large part to high taxes and overzealous regulations. Look at what the corporate tax is FFS! 35% last I read. Have you heard of corporate inversion? The nature of business is to make profit, but when you have the government taxing them to no end and creating senseless regulation, it makes perfect sense that a company doesn't want to do business here anymore. That needs to change.

And for the record. The NYtimes are to me as to what FoxNews is to you. It's biased, progressive, liberal, shill sheep SHIT!

Edit- You say the U.S. is greedy, but are not the Chinese? I suppose they don't seek fortunes and property here in the U.S. as well?

 

[John Connor]

We can fix the China problem with equal trade. China has been a trader since the Chinese Junks. Why haven't we learned from the past in that you always need equal trade to remain a stable economic player. I mean, I learned that fact in the 7th grade FFS!

 

[John Connor]

Not worried about China until this becomes a reality https://www.rt.com/news/341172-hypersonic-missile-test-china/

Then I will be worried especially if they give a few to North Korea.

We are developing our own at KEDW. Also, the B-1 can sink ships.

 

[agent00f]

T

he U.S. surpassed the British Empire in GDP in 1871, but it takes time for the #1 industrial power to become to the top military power. Remember it wasn't until the Washington Treaty of 1922 there was implicit acknowledgement that the U.S Navy had finally surpassed the British Navy, which had ruled the world's oceans for over 2 centuries.

As such China won't truly start testing their superpower status until their military spending (adjusted for PPP) starts to truly converge with US spending (minus the cost of combat operations of perpetual warfare).

China is technically more the new regional power in asia. They have the economy & missiles to back it up. Nobody is going to fuck with china if they know what's good for them, same as with the US in the western hemisphere.

Good luck with that, a day late and a dollar short, America and other countries are now reaping what they sow,

The Chinese played possum while your corporations fucked over the American worker so they can extract maximum profits using China,

thinking that this will go on forever telling poor displaced Americans that they need to become trained in a service economy since China is most happy to do all that dirty manufacturing/mining for pennies on the dollar,

The chinese have a pretty good plan a la "asia economic miracle". It's a good plan precisely because it exploits capitalism to the max and there's nothing anyone in that system can do about it. Rather amusing now that the OG capitalists are crying foul when they get outplayed. For some perspective, several other asia economies use(d) a similar plan, but notice that agit-prop against each is proportionate to their threat against american hegemony in asia.

 

[agent00f]

Bully china attacked South Vietnam in 1974 while it was weak because of the civil war vs the North and took the whole Paracel Islands from Vietnam.

Bully china use machine guns to shoot unarmed sailors of Vietnam from a supply ship and took parts of Spratlys from Vietnam in 1988.

Bully china used intimidation and lies to take over the Scarborough Shoal from Philippines in 2013.

Those are facts. No wonder why everyone in the neighborhood is arming up and inviting the US back. Bully china is the one that is eager for more. Not only china is acting like an ass in South china Sea, it is pushing Japan at Senkakus Islands right now.

What's that old saying? Something about being strong and stay independence or be weak and be swallowed whole. See examples above plus Tibet, East Turk (Xinjiang), Inner Mongolia, parts of India. Bully china is acting just like Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan prior to WWII

Amusing coming from an american. Trying iterating the number of wars & such each respective nation's been in for the past few decades if you ever learned to count.

China is just a posturing bully. They are no closer to being a superpower than I am to being a sexy male model.

What will eventually happen is they'll be taught a minor lesson, then stamp their feet and throw a tantrum, which is perfectly acceptable behavior to the Chinese.

I say this as someone who lives in China, and is half Chinese. I'm probably on a party watch list already, and it's been proven via the bookseller fiasco that Hong Kong, where I am and from, is not safe.

Speaking of throwing fits, not much more can be expected from petulant HK ideologues. The reality is hk needs china far more than vice versa, thus despite all this wishful thinking nothing good will come of any fall of beijing for hk.

 

[senseamp]

The U.S. surpassed the British Empire in GDP in 1871, but it takes time for the #1 industrial power to become to the top military power. Remember it wasn't until the Washington Treaty of 1922 there was implicit acknowledgement that the U.S Navy had finally surpassed the British Navy, which had ruled the world's oceans for over 2 centuries.

As such China won't truly start testing their superpower status until their military spending (adjusted for PPP) starts to truly converge with US spending (minus the cost of combat operations of perpetual warfare).

The PPP adjustment is different for military goods than for overall consumer basket, since US military industrial complex is very wasteful, and also a lot of useless and unwanted programs are funded by congress people.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Speaking of throwing fits, not much more can be expected from petulant HK ideologues. The reality is hk needs china far more than vice versa, thus despite all this wishful thinking nothing good will come of any fall of beijing for hk.

Not necessarily disagreeing, just unaware, how does HK need China? They were doing quite well for themselves when they were still part of the UK, and independent Asian city-states already have a proven record as also seen in Singapore. (Unless you're saying simply that China doesn't "need" HK at all, in which case I agree.)