I think I have a permanent cure for HIV!

jackofalltrades

Senior member
Feb 25, 2007
399
0
76
Why not give an HIV patient the same treatment as a Leukemia patient? Destroy the bone marrow with radiation then put them in a germ free enviroment then give them a bone marrow transplant. The radiation treatment would kill the HIV virus and all the germs in the body then the bone marrow transplant would restore the bodies ability to make white corpuscles then a slow reintroduction to normal germs and allow the body to build itself back up again.

The HIV virus stays in the marrow that is why it is hard to get rid of so get rid of it's home no more virus. In the long run it would be cheaper than a lifetime of medical care just treating the symtoms.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
WTF is with the hillbillies reinventing the wheel lately here? Do they think the rest of the forum doesn't read the news or are they that ignorant of what's already come to pass in the world?
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Won't work because the virus won't be destroyed by the radiation treatment, it will just infect the transplanted bone marrow. The exception being pointed out in tommo123's link.
 

jackofalltrades

Senior member
Feb 25, 2007
399
0
76
WTF is with the hillbillies reinventing the wheel lately here? Do they think the rest of the forum doesn't read the news or are they that ignorant of what's already come to pass in the world?

I don't know why I am being called a Hillbilly for having an Idea. I also wasn't even aware of the patient who had leukemia and was cured from Hiv during treatment.

I never claimed to be a doctor or a prophet either, I do believe there is a treatment that would be able to cure the virus and either due to the cost or the money being made in treatments on the virus it won't be seen anytime soon.

Do I think my idea has worth? Yes it did work on one person, would you use it on someone with full blown AIDS? not likley since it is a very hard procedure on the body and the patient might not live through the process, if they were already weak from the fight already.

The above statement is saying I read this and wanted to take credit for the mans good fortune. I did not this is a big world and believe it or not I had not read about that other article. I do not lie and I do not steal other peoples ideas.
 

Zen0

Senior member
Jan 30, 2011
980
0
0
It seems like a better idea to introduce the genetic resistance to HIV into our genome via gene therapy.

I wonder what the field is currently looking into.
 

Farmer

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2003
3,345
2
81
The reason "great ideas" in the "Highly Technical" (should be renamed "Highly Speculative") forums are not taken seriously is because, if they were actually a great ideas, you'd be doing something with them other than posting it on AT.
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
It seems like a better idea to introduce the genetic resistance to HIV into our genome via gene therapy.

I wonder what the field is currently looking into.

Apparently the genetic resistance to HIV makes you more susceptible to other diseases, for example, West Nile Virus.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Apparently the genetic resistance to HIV makes you more susceptible to other diseases, for example, West Nile Virus.

If you invoke genetic manipulation, there are dozens of different approaches that could lead to resistance. We needn't limit the ideas to just the CCR5 gene.
 

A5

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2000
4,902
5
81
I don't know why I am being called a Hillbilly for having an Idea. I also wasn't even aware of the patient who had leukemia and was cured from Hiv during treatment.

I never claimed to be a doctor or a prophet either, I do believe there is a treatment that would be able to cure the virus and either due to the cost or the money being made in treatments on the virus it won't be seen anytime soon.

Do I think my idea has worth? Yes it did work on one person, would you use it on someone with full blown AIDS? not likley since it is a very hard procedure on the body and the patient might not live through the process, if they were already weak from the fight already.

The above statement is saying I read this and wanted to take credit for the mans good fortune. I did not this is a big world and believe it or not I had not read about that other article. I do not lie and I do not steal other peoples ideas.

Cancer drugs don't kill virii. You'd basically be doing AIDS' job for it.

Also, cancer treatment isn't inexpensive or easy. One round of drugs can cost $100K.
 

bommy261

Golden Member
Dec 17, 2005
1,060
0
76
Why not give an HIV patient the same treatment as a Leukemia patient? Destroy the bone marrow with radiation then put them in a germ free enviroment then give them a bone marrow transplant. The radiation treatment would kill the HIV virus and all the germs in the body then the bone marrow transplant would restore the bodies ability to make white corpuscles then a slow reintroduction to normal germs and allow the body to build itself back up again.

The HIV virus stays in the marrow that is why it is hard to get rid of so get rid of it's home no more virus. In the long run it would be cheaper than a lifetime of medical care just treating the symtoms.

yeah ok. It never occurred to you that with all the highly trained brilliant doctors doing research on HIV cures, if it was this easy they would have figured it out sooner?
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Cancer drugs don't kill virii. You'd basically be doing AIDS' job for it.

Also, cancer treatment isn't inexpensive or easy. One round of drugs can cost $100K.
The main thing in a bone marrow transplant is radiation. The patient is given an otherwise lethal dose, then saved with the transplanted marrow. The treatment itself has a high mortality rate, above 10% iirc. Very much a last resort.

If I was infected, I think I might rather stick with the haart regimen, unless I had a delta 32 donor.
 
May 11, 2008
20,018
1,286
126
The main thing in a bone marrow transplant is radiation. The patient is given an otherwise lethal dose, then saved with the transplanted marrow. The treatment itself has a high mortality rate, above 10% iirc. Very much a last resort.

If I was infected, I think I might rather stick with the haart regimen, unless I had a delta 32 donor.

It could be fun if we could program a common bacteria living in our cavities such as the mouth or the nose to recognize HIV and then that bacteria communicates and directs the human immune system where and how to detect the HIV viruses. I have in the virus thread a post about a common harmless bacteria warning the immune system to fight of another bacteria where some family members are dangerous for the human body and because of their thick sugar envelope(probably mimics something the immune system cannot recognize as threat) cannot be detected by the immune system.
Thus this bacteria has a symbiotic relationship. I am still very much sure that our first defense is not our skin. But the bacteria living upon that skin and in our cavities. Better have a known enemy "the enemy of my unknown enemy is my friend" Because then the antibodies are always present.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
It could be fun if we could program a common bacteria living in our cavities such as the mouth or the nose to recognize HIV and then that bacteria communicates and directs the human immune system where and how to detect the HIV viruses. I have in the virus thread a post about a common harmless bacteria warning the immune system to fight of another bacteria where some family members are dangerous for the human body and because of their thick sugar envelope(probably mimics something the immune system cannot recognize as threat) cannot be detected by the immune system.
Thus this bacteria has a symbiotic relationship. I am still very much sure that our first defense is not our skin. But the bacteria living upon that skin and in our cavities. Better have a known enemy "the enemy of my unknown enemy is my friend" Because then the antibodies are always present.

..... no. and no and no.
 
May 11, 2008
20,018
1,286
126
..... no. and no and no.

Why not i asked myself ? HIV destroys the what i understand of it, the more advanced form of immunity we have. The mediated cell response against more dangerous forms of pathogens. A complex communication system from what i understand of it. And a complex system in nature is with a high probability slow because of evolution. It works, but it is not optimized. What makes hiv so dangerous is that it is not hiv that is killing humans. It is the lack of an immunesystem that kills. At least that is what i understand of it.
I am doing this all from memory so i could be a bit wrong.

Why you think it will not work :
#1
We could let a designed bacteria with accompanying phages be a decoy for the hiv and as a host to infect. Creating an auxiliary system that can match the speed at which hiv is mutating into new forms. If i am not mistaken, it is the antibodies production that cannot match the speed of hiv producing new disguises. Thus we need to help the immune system by mimicking the function of the immune system. By use of bacteria and phages. I would not be surprised if the immunesystem started out that way long ago. As humbled down bacteria and phages.

We know how hiv enters cells. Some people have immunity from it. The combination bacteria and phages , both together are able to come up with immunity faster than our immune system cells can mediate. Let the bacteria and phages do the adaptive work i would say. But when i think about, it would only work in a petri dish because the bacteria has to be present throughout the entire body and the entire bloodstream. That would cause problems of it's own, namely bacteremia. And then the immune system would create havoc on it's own causing sepsis. However, some possibilities may arise from the fact that some pathogens (parasites and bacteria) have the ability to be invisible inside the human body. Which is what i mentioned in my other post. Bacteria A warning the immune system about bacteria B from which the immune system cannot detect some very dangerous family members until it is to late for the whole organism, meaning for sure sepsis.

I take the work of Bonnie Bassler quite seriously.
Evolutionary wise, it makes sense we benefit from pathogens we live in symbiosis with who warn about other more dangerous pathogens where an encounter could severely decrease our chances of survival.

Why you think it will not work :
#2
The problem here is that hiv is not a localized infection. However, if there is a part of the body where hiv prefers to accumulate, this might actually work but it will take far more then just syringe shots. This is a multiple strategy system. Not something that can be done as easy as a rigid 3 months long antibiotics course.

It is not impossible. But for cheap to produce medicines, large sums of money are asked. Imagine what this would cost...
 
May 11, 2008
20,018
1,286
126
If it is possible to create a bacteria that can produce antibodies at the same rate as the HIV virus can multiply itself there is another problem.
How to keep the bacteria under control. Well, one possibility may be of using key proteins of the hiv virus that are not commonly found in the human body and that do not mutate but must remain the same, is to use these proteins to initiate the reproduction cycle of the bacteria. Of course an kill switch must be added as well for whenever evolutionary wise nature starts to throw dice in favour of the bacteria. This way, no hiv means no gene expression for the reproduction of the bacteria and no gene expression for the creation of anti bodies or (i do not know if this is possible) phages that latch on to hiv and disable the possibility of hiv of entering the specific immune cells. Giving the immune system a chance to clean up the viral mess without being destroyed in the process. And sooner or later the artificial helper bacteria are taken care of by the immune system as well. The gene expression for reproduction must be made depended on hiv specific proteins as well.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Why not i asked myself ? HIV destroys the what i understand of it, the more advanced form of immunity we have. The mediated cell response against more dangerous forms of pathogens. A complex communication system from what i understand of it. And a complex system in nature is with a high probability slow because of evolution. It works, but it is not optimized. What makes hiv so dangerous is that it is not hiv that is killing humans. It is the lack of an immunesystem that kills. At least that is what i understand of it.
I am doing this all from memory so i could be a bit wrong.

Why you think it will not work :
#1
We could let a designed bacteria with accompanying phages be a decoy for the hiv and as a host to infect. Creating an auxiliary system that can match the speed at which hiv is mutating into new forms. If i am not mistaken, it is the antibodies production that cannot match the speed of hiv producing new disguises. Thus we need to help the immune system by mimicking the function of the immune system. By use of bacteria and phages. I would not be surprised if the immunesystem started out that way long ago. As humbled down bacteria and phages.

We know how hiv enters cells. Some people have immunity from it. The combination bacteria and phages , both together are able to come up with immunity faster than our immune system cells can mediate. Let the bacteria and phages do the adaptive work i would say. But when i think about, it would only work in a petri dish because the bacteria has to be present throughout the entire body and the entire bloodstream. That would cause problems of it's own, namely bacteremia. And then the immune system would create havoc on it's own causing sepsis. However, some possibilities may arise from the fact that some pathogens (parasites and bacteria) have the ability to be invisible inside the human body. Which is what i mentioned in my other post. Bacteria A warning the immune system about bacteria B from which the immune system cannot detect some very dangerous family members until it is to late for the whole organism, meaning for sure sepsis.

I take the work of Bonnie Bassler quite seriously.
Evolutionary wise, it makes sense we benefit from pathogens we live in symbiosis with who warn about other more dangerous pathogens where an encounter could severely decrease our chances of survival.

Why you think it will not work :
#2
The problem here is that hiv is not a localized infection. However, if there is a part of the body where hiv prefers to accumulate, this might actually work but it will take far more then just syringe shots. This is a multiple strategy system. Not something that can be done as easy as a rigid 3 months long antibiotics course.

It is not impossible. But for cheap to produce medicines, large sums of money are asked. Imagine what this would cost...

1. While it can mutate around an antibody response, that's not really the big problem. The antibodies can apparently be working but HIV still replicates and infects new cells. That is, even the unmutated HIV, that antibodies are recognizing and binding, can still replicate. There's a shit ton going on, stuff that doesn't involve antibodies at all.

2. Why would bacteria be faster than the immune system? They don't have a targeted mutation system (like the immune system does) or a means of selectively propagating the most effective fighters against the pathogen (like the immune system does).

3. Bacteria A "warning the immune system" about Bacteria B is akin to the crack dealer warning the SWAT team about the terrorist hit squad down the street. Or the innocent family of five down the street. He's still a crack dealer, he isn't your friend. Some highly pathogenic bacteria use similar strategies to avoid or deflect the immune response.

4. In any case it's a very bad idea to let bacteria loose inside human tissue.

5. I take her work seriously too, but if you want to understand immunity and disease, it's probably better to learn basic micro and immunology first.

6. Yes, the infection is systemic. It's transported through and found in blood. Here's a start on some of the main places HIV will be found

but you can find it in some amount at almost any other place too. And you need to 'kill' every single one of them.

7. I'm not sure what you mean about a "multiple strategy system" when none of your ideas are at the level of a strategy. None of them state specifically how they'll stop an HIV infection. "Warn the immune system?" The immune system already knows. "Use bacteria and phages to fight the virus?" How? What are the bacteria and phages going to do? You simply can't put bacteria into a human anyway. You can kill someone just by doing that with dead bacteria.

7. "Cheap to produce medicines" can be very expensive to develop.

If you want to try to figure out something about HIV, stop thinking about symbiotic bacteria and phages. Just stop.

Look first into the work on recombinant viruses as a vaccine, it's the only approach that's provided some protection vs. infection. And thus far, that protection is marginal at best.

Then look into some things about how HIV replicates inside a cell. If we can effectively and safely manipulate host cells, there's likely a cure there. (Yes, that's a very big if.) Some ideas include -
knocking out some host genes that are essential for HIV replication. We've seen a natural version of this with delta 32 mutation, but there are other host genes that HIV requires. Knocking them out in the main target of the virus (CD4 T cells, maybe macrophages too, why not if we're speculating) might be enough. You would need to find a gene not necessary for the function of those cells though.

RNA based approaches. One problem here is that the virus can find escape mutations, but we do know of a few regions in its genome that are intolerant of mutations.

Novel protein approaches. This is a long way off, we really don't know how to do this so well right now. But a highly specific endonuclease would be pretty neat, or an intracellular protease that targets the right place on the right viral protein, or a really well-designed transcription inhibitor.
 
Last edited:

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
If it is possible to create a bacteria that can produce antibodies at the same rate as the HIV virus can multiply itself there is another problem.

Getting bacteria to make antibodies isn't that hard. Getting them to change the antibodies they make, on their on, when it's unknown what they'll have to change to? I'd like to hear how that might be done. And don't say "phages," that's not an answer.
 
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