I Think If A Man Never Agreed To Have A Baby With A Woman He Shouldn't Have To Pay Child Support

[ch33zw1z]

That's not reasonable at all. How about the responsibility of the female, who also chose to have sex, but apparently with a male who did not demonstrate financial ability, the desire to be, or at least after the fact, the mental acceptance, of being a father?

A female can take steps to prevent pregnancy, before, during, day after, and possibly later depending on how the Roe vs Wade situation pans out in the next several months.

If the male did not want to become a father, I can't agree with requiring him to pay support. The female should not have the only say in whether she has a baby, if someone else has to pay for it.

150 years ago yes, but not so much for the past few decades where there were alternatives and ample education of how babies are made. If a woman is against having an abortion No Matter What, she should not entrap men who didn't make a long term commitment to be a father.

There are two scenarios: Sex where both want to be parents. Both should provide support. Sex where one or the other doesn't want to be a parent, then that party should not have to provide support or if the female, should not be forced to get pregnant (denied contraceptive options) or continue to be pregnant instead of allowed to have an abortion. How far into the pregnancy an abortion should be allowed, is the gray area in my mind.

Someone previously used a car wreck analogy and I have one too. Suppose you go out driving in your car and someone wrecks into you. Are you automatically at fault and liable because you didn't keep your car keys in your pants and not drive? OR is it the fault of the person who made the bad decision, who could have prevented the wreck? It applies even more so to unprotected sex because the day after pill is like a Time Machine to stop pregnancy, while there is no do-over with the car wreck.

Its 100% reasonable to hold people accountable for their actions, sorry you disagree

lol “entrap”

 

[Drach]

Why is it the right wingers always bitching about child support?

Entrap? Keep ur zipper up boy.

 

[mindless1]

This is some incredibly deranged shit. Seek help.

No argument, so you exit the topic? I should too,

 

[mindless1]

You are only talking about one night stands. Period.

No, I'm talking about any time a male does not want to have another child, including with the woman you're married to.

What is the response to people that have had 3 children then get divorced 10 years later with the children aged 14, 9 and 5?

What does this have to do with the topic? If the male wanted those 3 children, divorce does not change the obligation to support them.

EDIT: Sounds like you are not a parent at all. Or a deadbeat that doesn't want to pay for fucking that one night drunk.

Seems more like you don't know that having sex is not an obligation in the modern world and if a woman decides to have a baby with an unwanted father, that's on her, because she has choices too.

 

[mindless1]

Its 100% reasonable to hold people accountable for their actions, sorry you disagree

lol “entrap”

Yes, the male's actions were to not want a child and the female's was to take on that obligation.

This is exactly, holding only those accountable, for their action.

 

[Drach]

No, I'm talking about any time a male does not want to have another child, including with the woman you're married to.



What does this have to do with the topic? If the male wanted those 3 children, divorce does not change the obligation to support them.


Seems more like you don't know that having sex is not an obligation in the modern world and if a woman decides to have a baby with an unwanted father, that's on her, because she has choices too.

Another deadbeat dad that needs his balls removed. You whip your dick out unprotected or not and have a kid, be a fucking adult instead of a spinless asshole.

 

[mindless1]

Why is it the right wingers always bitching about child support?

Entrap? Keep ur zipper up boy.

Not quite, conservatives try to limit sex which is ridiculous in the modern world.

We still live in a repressed society where even people who pretend to be liberal, want to control basic human functions like sex, by trying to attach severe consequences to males. It's ludicrous.

 

[mindless1]

Another deadbeat dad that needs his balls removed. You whip your dick out unprotected or not and have a kid, be a fucking adult instead of a spinless asshole.

Troll much?

Your post had so much wrong with what little you wrote, that it's just a sign of low intelligence.

It's being quite the adult to accept that sex is not just about trying to make babies. How is this NOT OBVIOUS?

Wow, there are some really, really, sexually deprived people in this forum that act as if sex is... some kind of dirty deed where severe consequences should be attached to the party not responsible for a baby.

Let's be very clear about this. We are not animals where one impregnates the other and the other has no choice but to have a baby. On the contrary, the control is taken out of the hands of the male (nor should it be a control only by the male) and then only the female decides.

That is NOT the male doing something wrong, if the female decides to have a child with an unwilling male. That is the female doing something wrong, and the male did nothing to obligate to support a child "IF" there was no intention to create a child.

It seems that this basic truth about sexuality flies above the heads of many people who are so repressed sexually, that they can't even begin to understand.

IF the male does not want to be a father, it is abusive for the female to have a child. This is not about a male who decides later to be a deadbeat, only about a female deciding to make bad choices then try to hold the male accountable for what is a normal, recreational activity for those who aren't fugly.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yes, the male's actions were to not want a child and the female's was to take on that obligation.

This is exactly, holding only those accountable, for their action.

his actions said otherwise. It certainly is strange you want to put the onus on the woman but the man gets a pass, but not really.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Troll much?

Your post had so much wrong with what little you wrote, that it's just a sign of low intelligence.

It's being quite the adult to accept that sex is not just about trying to make babies. How is this NOT OBVIOUS?

Wow, there are some really, really, sexually deprived people in this forum that act as if sex is... some kind of dirty deed.

if you have unprotected sex, you just agreed to procreate . That’s how it works dude.

nobody is acting like sex is wrong or a dirty deed, people are stating facts. It takes two to procreate. Therefore, the responsibilityis on both.

you can take necessary steps to reduce or eliminate this possibility, the choice is yours.

 

[brycejones]

Yeah he's been exposed for a bit as a fucked up in the head individual.

Par for the course for @mindless1.

 

[mindless1]

if you have unprotected sex, you just agreed to procreate . That’s how it works dude.

No, it's not, because it takes two, and the other party also has an obligation to either be protected, or not based on the desires of BOTH parties. It can easily be the case that the other party takes birth control and/or morning after pill, and/or (setting aside roe vs wade till it pans out) an abortion. The worst thing is for the female to choose to have a baby where she does not have willing, support for it if she needs it.

nobody is acting like sex is wrong or a dirty deed, people are stating facts. It takes two to procreate. Therefore, the responsibilityis on both.

Yes, exactly, but you drew the wrong conclusion from that. The responsibility is in the choice whether to get pregnant and carry it or not.

The fact is, no female should get, let alone remain pregnant and have a child when the male does not want to father it, unless she wants to go it alone.

You are essentially pretending it is wrong, if you try to attach more severe penalties to the act, without considering the other factors about it, since sex alone is commonplace, and nobody is really forced to become pregnant and have a baby. I will restate that. Nobody is really forced to become pregnant and have a baby, outside of some illegal rape/incest/etc.

 

[mindless1]

I suspect I am dealing with geeks who would have a hard time getting laid on a good day.

Geeks who based on the rarity of getting laid, try to make it more special than it is.

That is quite subjective, but do what works for you.

I have no bastard children that I don't support, and am not looking to have any more kids, would not hook up with anyone who was so reckless that they couldn't figure out how to exercise that control over their own body, against my decision not to have more kids.

This is not a hard topic to grasp, except for those sexually repressed. Apparently there are so many who fit that description that a continuation of posts by me would be pointless, because you want to argue towards repression of sexuality INSTEAD of responsibility as an adult, instead pretending all people are 15 year olds living in the dark ages without information and contraception available. How third world. I'm glad I don't live there and get along just fine, with no bastard kids. Unsubscribed.

 

[brycejones]

I suspect I am dealing with geeks who would have a hard time getting laid on a good day.

Geeks who based on the rarity of getting laid, try to make it more special than it is.

That is quite subjective, but do what works for you.

I have no bastard children that I don't support, and am not looking to have any more kids, would not hook up with anyone who was so reckless that they couldn't figure out how to exercise that control over their own body, against my decision not to have more kids.

This is not a hard topic to grasp, except for those sexually repressed. Apparently there are so many who fit that description that a continuation of posts by me would be pointless, because you want to argue towards repression of sexuality INSTEAD of responsibility as an adult, instead pretending all people are 15 year olds living in the dark ages without information and contraception available. How third world. I'm glad I don't live there and get along just fine, with no bastard kids. Unsubscribed.

The fly doth protest too much

 

[Paratus]

The fly doth protest too much

Apparently @mindless1 is very concerned about having sex with women who don’t share his views about having children. Why this is a problem is a mystery to me. He could very easily not have sex with women who feel differently about it than him.

It seems he wants to enjoy risky sexy but have others bear the consequences of that risk. This lack of responsibility is a hallmark for conservatives and libertarians when it comes to sex.

 

[Pohemi]

Your post had so much wrong with what little you wrote, that it's just a sign of low intelligence.

Wow, there are some really, really, sexually deprived people in this forum that act as if sex is... some kind of dirty deed where severe consequences should be attached to the party not responsible for a baby.

It seems that this basic truth about sexuality flies above the heads of many people who are so repressed sexually, that they can't even begin to understand.

IF the male does not want to be a father, it is abusive for the female to have a child. This is not about a male who decides later to be a deadbeat, only about a female deciding to make bad choices then try to hold the male accountable for what is a normal, recreational activity for those who aren't fugly.

I suspect I am dealing with geeks who would have a hard time getting laid on a good day.

Geeks who based on the rarity of getting laid, try to make it more special than it is.

This is not a hard topic to grasp, except for those sexually repressed. Apparently there are so many who fit that description that a continuation of posts by me would be pointless, because you want to argue towards repression of sexuality INSTEAD of responsibility as an adult, instead pretending all people are 15 year olds living in the dark ages without information and contraception available. How third world. I'm glad I don't live there and get along just fine, with no bastard kids. Unsubscribed.

Project much with your comments above? And you call others trolls. LOL

Your analogies, much like your opinions, are retarded and juvenile. They read like incel material. Opinions of someone who has no direct involvement or experience...just idiotic, misogynistic, and backwards opinions.

 

[Maxima1]

So none of you guys ever heard of reproductive coercion/birth control sabotage?

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf

Approximately 10.4% (or an esti-
mated 11.7 million) of men in the
United States reported ever having
an intimate partner who tried to
get pregnant when they did not
want to or tried to stop them from
using birth control, with 8.7%
having had an intimate partner
who tried to get pregnant when
they did not want to or tried to
stop them from using birth control
and 3.8% having had an intimate
partner who refused to wear a
condom (data not shown)

 

[Pohemi]

So none of you guys ever heard of reproductive coercion/birth control sabotage?

I didn't JUST hear about it...it happened to me. She carried it through, and we gave the child up for adoption. It was a hard choice, one of the hardest I've ever made, but the best one we had imo (for both of us). She thought that by getting pregnant and having a child, she could 'force' me into marriage. We had been together and co-habitating for 6 years, and I ended it between us after that happened. I no longer trusted her, at all.

It doesn't change how I feel on the subject of male responsibility. She was an outlier, and not the norm.

 

[igor_kavinski]

So none of you guys ever heard of reproductive coercion/birth control sabotage?

It's still the guy's fault for jumping into bed with a crazy woman who secretly wants to get pregnant. Rather than think with the bulge in his pants, he should observe the woman more carefully and spend more time with her to notice any red flags in her "normal" behavior to identify craziness. Yes. Mistakes happen. You do whatever it takes to fix the mistake. Not run away from it. Hit and run is a serious offense despite being an accident, right?

 

[ch33zw1z]

No, it's not, because it takes two, and the other party also has an obligation to either be protected, or not based on the desires of BOTH parties.

No, you do the crime, do the time. This can easily be resolved for you though with a simple waiver / terms of service, to hand a woman prior to intercourse. Make your stance clear!

It can easily be the case that the other party takes birth control and/or morning after pill, and/or (setting aside roe vs wade till it pans out) an abortion. The worst thing is for the female to choose to have a baby where she does not have willing, support for it if she needs it.

I wouldn't say that's the worst thing. I would offer the worst thing is a guy who wants to have unprotected sex but bear no responsibilities for the consequences. Seems quite reasonable!

Yes, exactly, but you drew the wrong conclusion from that. The responsibility is in the choice whether to get pregnant and carry it or not.

Incorrect. Ignorance is not a defense. When you have unprotected sex, you're accepting that your actions could result in procreation. Done.

The fact is, no female should get, let alone remain pregnant and have a child when the male does not want to father it, unless she wants to go it alone.

See #1, ensure you state that in your waiver / terms of service.

You are essentially pretending it is wrong.

I'm not pretending anything, lol.

if you try to attach more severe penalties to the act, without considering the other factors about it, since sex alone is commonplace, and nobody is really forced to become pregnant and have a baby. I will restate that.

Right, nobody is forcing a man and woman to procreate, and when they do it....they're both responsible.

You may not agree, but that doesn't mean its not true.

Nobody is really forced to become pregnant and have a baby, outside of some illegal rape/incest/etc.

Just make sure she knows you don't want her to get pregnant, /problem solved.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So none of you guys ever heard of reproductive coercion/birth control sabotage?

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf

Approximately 10.4% (or an esti-
mated 11.7 million) of men in the
United States reported ever having
an intimate partner who tried to
get pregnant when they did not
want to or tried to stop them from
using birth control, with 8.7%
having had an intimate partner
who tried to get pregnant when
they did not want to or tried to
stop them from using birth control
and 3.8% having had an intimate
partner who refused to wear a
condom (data not shown)

You forgot the first paragraph in the section titled "Prevalence of Control of Reproductive or Sexual Health by an Intimate Partner", not reproductive coercion/birth control sabotage.

Approximately 8.6% (or an estimated 10.3 million) of women in the United States reported ever having an intimate partner who tried to get them pregnant when they did not want to, or refused to use a condom, with 4.8% having had an intimate partner who tried to get them pregnant when they did not want to, and 6.7% having had an intimate partner who refused to wear a condom (data not shown).

Now consider what roles men and women play in procreation, and why this comparison makes a difference.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Apparently @mindless1 is very concerned about having sex with women who don’t share his views about having children. Why this is a problem is a mystery to me. He could very easily not have sex with women who feel differently about it than him.

It seems he wants to enjoy risky sexy but have others bear the consequences of that risk. This lack of responsibility is a hallmark for conservatives and libertarians when it comes to sex.

It's certainly interesting to see how like minded individuals have similar takes on this topic. And you're very dead on about this responsibility cornerstone. Blaming women has been happening for thousands of years, all the way back to the dirty whore Eve who totally tricked Adam.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I suspect I am dealing with geeks who would have a hard time getting laid on a good day.

Geeks who based on the rarity of getting laid, try to make it more special than it is.

That is quite subjective, but do what works for you.

I have no bastard children that I don't support, and am not looking to have any more kids, would not hook up with anyone who was so reckless that they couldn't figure out how to exercise that control over their own body, against my decision not to have more kids.

This is not a hard topic to grasp, except for those sexually repressed. Apparently there are so many who fit that description that a continuation of posts by me would be pointless, because you want to argue towards repression of sexuality INSTEAD of responsibility as an adult, instead pretending all people are 15 year olds living in the dark ages without information and contraception available. How third world. I'm glad I don't live there and get along just fine, with no bastard kids. Unsubscribed.

lol, I've been married for 17 years and have two kids. When we were done for sure, I had a vasectomy.

There's our anecdotes.

It's funny that you're not arguing for responsibility as an adult, because you don't actually seem to keen on responsibility as an adult.

As another anecdote, I had NO information about how the human body works while I was growing up. My religious nutter parents made sure of that. It was actually a good thing that I was a nerdy awkward teen and that very few girls would even engage in tom foolery with me. I literally did not know how the procreation process works. Porn and yahoo (no google back then), had to learn it for myself.

Part of the benefit of Roe v Wade is the introduction of actual human anatomy and sexual education in schools (not mine, of course, very small christian school). So if a dude tries to claim ignorance at this point, with all the information available to him, it's bullshit.

You are destroying your own arguments with your anecdote, lol.

 

[fskimospy]

Also has anyone tried to game out what this ‘mental abortion’ would look like in real life? It’s so obviously and easily gamed it’s not funny.

The principle society works on is simple. It takes two people to create a kid and so if a kid is born both parents are EQUALLY responsible.

 

[MrSquished]

So none of you guys ever heard of reproductive coercion/birth control sabotage?

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf

Approximately 10.4% (or an esti-
mated 11.7 million) of men in the
United States reported ever having
an intimate partner who tried to
get pregnant when they did not
want to or tried to stop them from
using birth control, with 8.7%
having had an intimate partner
who tried to get pregnant when
they did not want to or tried to
stop them from using birth control
and 3.8% having had an intimate
partner who refused to wear a
condom (data not shown)

Yeah you only post the women's side because you are a misogynist pig.

Many women have been victim to men who take off condoms during sex, especially when they get behind them or at other times. Or men who say they're going to pull out and don't. Anybody does that no matter what sex they should be held accountable