I think its time we have a REAL Yet Another Gun Thread for P&N

[rudeguy]

We all see many threads here about guns, gun violence, self defense, etc and we all have our own opinions. We have a fairly lengthy YAGT in ATOT but the politics of gun ownership are not really welcome there. So here we are! This is the thread to talk about gun ownership, the 2nd Amendment, reasons to be for gun control, reasons to be against it.

I'd like to start it off with some things we should all know. The most important thing IMHO is the 2nd Amendment. We hear it misquoted all of the time so here it is verbatim:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I would also like to show a few pictures of things that often get brought up in gun threads. I know not all of us are gun nuts, so some of us might not really be familiar with things discussed.

This is semi auto pistol. Sometimes the media shortens it to "automatic weapon". Its the most common kind of pistol. It only fires one bullet at a time. It is not fully automatic where you hold down the trigger and bullets fly out until the magazine is empty.

That is a revolver. It works much like a semi auto except that the wheel spins. They tend to hold less bullets as well. Some revolvers require you to pull the hammer back before each shot. That is called "single action". Not many revolvers do that anymore.

That is a magazine. Magazines hold and dispense bullets into guns. Some hold more than others but they all do the same basic job.

That is an ammo clip. Generally used in older rifles. Some people use clip and magazine as the same thing. Gun nuts tend to get cranky when you do this.

That is a hollow point bullet. Hollow points or jacketed hollow point (JHP) are used for self defense. They expand on impact and do more damage.

That is a full metal jacket bullet (FMJ). They are usually used for target practice in pistols. I believe for hunting in rifles but I am neither a rifle guy nor a hunter.



So what is the point of all this? For me guns have a few attractions. First is for protection. Society is not getting any nice and I want to have the option to defend myself. Also, guns are pretty cool. There are some very well made, pretty guns out there. There are many kinds and they all have their own special details. I also like target shooting. I like to go to the range and blow off stress, challenge myself, talk with other gun nuts. Its a hobby that can also save someone's life.

This thread is yours now guys. Feel free to discuss anything gun related, good or bad.

 

[z1ggy]

But... But rudeguy.. The sole purpose of a gun is to KILL things. They can't possibly be used for fun, for hobby or for any other benevolent purpose!

 

[Doppel]

The 2nd has been debated ad tedium and will continue to be. However, only 6 years ago the Supreme Court made its first ruling as to whether the 2nd protects the right to be armed for self-defense (Heller, 2008: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller). Conclusion was that it does.

A second key SCOTUS ruling came down two years later (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago) concluding that this right extends to all states.

States continue to have a great deal of control as far as laws are concerned, and they vary massively from state to state, but of course have to all not contradict the SCOTUS rulings.

As far as I can tell the two most important remaining questions that the SCOTUS has not answered are:

1) Does the 2nd protect the right to be armed outside of the home?
2) What specific arms are protected by the 2nd?

The first has been adjudicated by a few circuit courts with conflicting rulings, the most recent answering the question in the affirmative. The second question (specific arms) is quite wide open, with SCOTUS to date only saying the 2nd protects arms "in common use", which is very vague. At the least it protects a typical pistol, and does not protect a bazooka.

 

[rudeguy]

But... But rudeguy.. The sole purpose of a gun is to KILL things. They can't possibly be used for fun, for hobby or for any other benevolent purpose!

Guns can kill. So can pen caps.

Another thing I wanted to bring up, ammo hoarding! A lot of times we hear the media hype up "He had over a thousand rounds of ammunition stockpiled!!!"

Well with ammo prices, you have to buy in bulk if you want to get any kind of a deal. Having a stash of ammo is smart, not crazy.

 

[highland145]

Another thing I wanted to bring up, ammo hoarding! A lot of times we hear the media hype up "He had over a thousand rounds of ammunition stockpiled!!!"

Well with ammo prices, you have to buy in bulk if you want to get any kind of a deal. Having a stash of ammo is smart, not crazy.

And I'm not going to order just 50 rounds. 500 min. Yeah, I'd be a news anchor's wet dream of the day.

 

[JulesMaximus]

This is neither politics nor is it news... and there is already a very long thread on this very topic in OT.

 

[z1ggy]

Guns can kill. So can pen caps.

Another thing I wanted to bring up, ammo hoarding! A lot of times we hear the media hype up "He had over a thousand rounds of ammunition stockpiled!!!"

Well with ammo prices, you have to buy in bulk if you want to get any kind of a deal. Having a stash of ammo is smart, not crazy.

I went to the range with my g/f to shoot my .380 and my 9mm.

In 30 mins we shot around 250 rounds. And she was sllloooooooowww.

In an hour, I can toss 400 or so down, depends on what I'm doing.

Given the fact most of the time if you buy in bulk you buy a case of 500 or 1000, a man or woman who is an avid shooter might have a few thousand of his or her round of choice in their home.

I think right now I have around 500 or so...

 

[KB]

To add to your discussion.
This is how the media sees firearms. These classifications are incorrect.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Guns can kill. So can pen caps.

Another thing I wanted to bring up, ammo hoarding! A lot of times we hear the media hype up "He had over a thousand rounds of ammunition stockpiled!!!"

Well with ammo prices, you have to buy in bulk if you want to get any kind of a deal. Having a stash of ammo is smart, not crazy.

Here's a top tip: If you never go on a killing spree we won't ever hear stories of how much ammo you are hoarding.

 

[highland145]

This is neither politics nor is it news... and there is already a very long thread on this very topic in OT.

It's a counter Moonie thread.

 

[rudeguy]

This is neither politics nor is it news... and there is already a very long thread on this very topic in OT.

Politics are welcome.

News is welcome.

The OT YAGT, neither are (unofficially of course)

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

And what 'well regulated militia' do you gun owners actually belong to?

 

[rudeguy]

And what 'well regulated militia' do you gun owners actually belong to?

I don't believe the amendment says guns are only for militia members. Keep in mind that a militia is simply armed citizens. At least it was before those crazy Michigan Militia nutjobs made militia a bad word.

 

[Doppel]

And what 'well regulated militia' do you gun owners actually belong to?

Although the wording of the 2nd is strange this question isn't really valid anymore; SCOTUS has already ruled on it and the amendment does not only protect rights of militia members.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I don't believe the amendment says guns are only for militia members. Keep in mind that a militia is simply armed citizens. At least it was before those crazy Michigan Militia nutjobs made militia a bad word.

A militia is an organized group, per MW

mi·li·tia noun \mə-ˈli-shə\
: a group of people who are not part of the armed forces of a country but are trained like soldiers

Personally I think the 2nd amendment is archaic and if ANYONE thinks their arsenal or cache of weapons is big enough to hold off the current powers that be, they are delusional to the point that they shouldn't own a slingshot let alone a firearm.

I realize that guns aren't going anywhere, I just have never, ever understood the perpetual, raging hard-on that people have for them.

 

[rudeguy]

A militia is an organized group, per MW



Personally I think the 2nd amendment is archaic and if ANYONE thinks their arsenal or cache of weapons is big enough to hold off the current powers that be, they are delusional to the point that they shouldn't own a slingshot let alone a firearm.

I realize that guns aren't going anywhere, I just have never, ever understood the perpetual, raging hard-on that people have for them.

While your way of thinking is foreign to me, I understand there are a lot of people that share your views.

Besides the basic fact that guns are a great hobby, they do also protect us from the government. One of the main reasons for the 2nd Amendment was and still is, to protect us from tyranny. I hope it never comes to that, but having a bunch of armed, pissed off civilians is always a great way to keep the government in check.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

And my point is, if the government ever decided to disarm the citizens, it would be done. It would be bloody, it would most likely be swift and it would be done.
The idea that you could even have a minute's worth of fight is laughable.

And in some hands a gun makes a coward foolish and dangerous.

 

[rudeguy]

And my point is, if the government ever decided to disarm the citizens, it would be done. It would be bloody, it would most likely be swift and it would be done.
The idea that you could even have a minute's worth of fight is laughable.

And in some hands a gun makes a coward foolish and dangerous.

You do realize that many, many law enforcement officials already weighed in on this and said they would refuse to do so? There were military leaders as well IIRC.

It would be civil war part 2. But with much bloodier results.

 

[Doppel]

And my point is, if the government ever decided to disarm the citizens, it would be done. It would be bloody, it would most likely be swift and it would be done.
The idea that you could even have a minute's worth of fight is laughable.

And in some hands a gun makes a coward foolish and dangerous.

I imagine Gadhafi and Assad would disagree with you on your first point.

 

[WelshBloke]

It would be civil war part 2. But with much bloodier results.

And youre putting that forward as an argument FOR guns?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

A militia is an organized group, per MW

Personally I think the 2nd amendment is archaic and if ANYONE thinks their arsenal or cache of weapons is big enough to hold off the current powers that be, they are delusional to the point that they shouldn't own a slingshot let alone a firearm.

I realize that guns aren't going anywhere, I just have never, ever understood the perpetual, raging hard-on that people have for them.

Would your stance on firearm ownership change if gun owners were required to complete some basic firearm training prior to owning guns (the "trained like soldiers" piece of the militia definition you posted)? Or are you opposed to gun ownership regardless of an individual's demonstrated competency with firearms (including not just use, but safety and security when handling and storing firearms)?

 

[Texashiker]

Why is this in P&N?

 

[rudeguy]

And youre putting that forward as an argument FOR guns?

Its a byproduct of the Second Amendment. Guns are an American right. Millions of people own guns, hundreds of millions of guns are in private hands. Again, guns are an American right. If the government ever decided to just take them like he described, it would not be pretty.

You can call it an argument for or against guns, that is your choice. Either way it is a fact.

 

[rudeguy]

Why is this in P&N?

its more P&N than your broke step daughter wanting to hump bareback

 

[brycejones]

cool