I think we should redefine rich as $170k or more

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by dank69
Are you having trouble getting by on 400k free and clear a year? Would you be roughing it on 350k? Would you be willing to invest more on 450k? How many supermodels do you have draped on your arms on any given friday night?

I'm not having trouble, no. But it is by no means rich. I live a great life, but it doesn't mean I sleep on a mattress full of money. I am penalized in certain ways. I don't get a lot of deductions others get. I cannot contribute to an IRA because of income limits. I pay a shit ton in taxes.

Seeing how the median income for the entire earth is around $7,000/year, maybe everyone who is making more than that should contribute to those less fortunate. Could I live on $350K? Certainly. $200K? Yep. $50k? Yes, although lifestyle habits would need to change. My point is, we can ALWAYS look at someones income and drop a few bucks off it. Oh, if you can make it by on $45K/year, SURELY you could make it by on $44K/year...

Bottom line is that your sentiment is the same as every other rich greedy bastard.

Do you remember at what point you went from an ordinary American and loved your country to a rich greedy fuck and hate America?

 

[Lithium381]

Just so you know, the $170 wasn't an arbitrary suggestion....:

The current salary (2011) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/congresspay.htm
Majority party leaders and other such titles earn more.

 

[Lithium381]

Bottom line is that your sentiment is the same as every other rich greedy bastard.

Do you remember at what point you went from an ordinary American and loved your country to a rich greedy fuck and hate America?

Here AoS, let me translate: You make more than I do so i'm pissed and jealous. I am entitled to the spoils of your hard work.

 

[dank69]

...
Bottom line is that your sentiment is the same as every other rich greedy bastard.

Do you remember at what point you went from an ordinary American and loved your country to a rich greedy fuck and hate America?

You do not help your cause with attacks like this...

 

[xBiffx]

Here AoS, let me translate: You make more than I do so i'm pissed and jealous. I am entitled to the spoils of your hard work.

Add: Let me find out what I can do to you rather than looking at it and finding out what I can do for me to rectify this.

 

[randomrogue]

Bottom line is that your sentiment is the same as every other rich greedy bastard.

Do you remember at what point you went from an ordinary American and loved your country to a rich greedy fuck and hate America?

Wow what an asshole. He worked for his money. Why are you so damn bitter that you cruise the internet being a complete jerk?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
...
Bottom line is that your sentiment is the same as every other rich greedy bastard.

Do you remember at what point you went from an ordinary American and loved your country to a rich greedy fuck and hate America?

You do not help your cause with attacks like this...

What is my cause to you?

I know my shit still stinks.

Does yours still stink or because you have a ton of money that it no longer smells?

 

[spidey07]

Add: Let me find out what I can do to you rather than looking at it and finding out what I can do for me to rectify this.

At the core this is the difference between liberals and conservatives. You see it constanly on display in these forums.

Liberal - "hey, you've got more than me! You need to give!"
Conservative - "Hey, you've got more than me! How about you tell me how you did it so I can go earn more?"

 

[dmcowen674]

Wow what an asshole. He worked for his money. Why are you so damn bitter that you cruise the internet being a complete jerk?

What does him working hard have anything to do with his greed and hate for the country?

I work just as hard, probably harder than him.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

It is none of my business, hence the 'if you don't mind me asking' part. He is free to not answer just as I am free to ask. I also did not judge him, although I think it is odd that he cannot afford to pay cash for a RR. However, I don't know how many years he has been making that sort of cash, so maybe he will be able to in a few years.

Do you know how much a RR costs? And I could technically pay cash, but it would be fiscally irresponsible. I've been slowly building my income. 4 years ago I was only making $150K.

This is what I am saying. $500K/year is NOT a lot of money.

 

[dank69]

...
What is my cause to you?

I know my shit still stinks.

Does yours still stink or because you have a ton of money that it no longer smells?

From this angle it appears your cause is to spew bile on these forums. :hmm:

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

I am sorry, am I reading that right?

Oops, that is backwards. Joe the Plumber losing $10K/year is much more detrimental than me losing $50K/year. Sorry about that. The utility of the dollar shrinks as you make more.

 

[randomrogue]

What does him working hard have anything to do with his greed and hate for the country?

I work just as hard, probably harder than him.

Your conclusions are wrong. I don't see that he's greedy or hates his country. He just doesn't want to give his money away that he worked for.

What is your income? How much are you willing to give up? I'm all for a flat tax. Pick your percentage.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Originally Posted by dank69
Are you having trouble getting by on 400k free and clear a year? Would you be roughing it on 350k? Would you be willing to invest more on 450k? How many supermodels do you have draped on your arms on any given friday night?



Bottom line is that your sentiment is the same as every other rich greedy bastard.

Do you remember at what point you went from an ordinary American and loved your country to a rich greedy fuck and hate America?

I'm not quite sure why you interpret what I wrote as greed and hate. We are all greedy, aren't we? The world median income is $7,000 USD/year. I say anyone who makes a penny over that and doesn't donate it to charity is greedy to some extent.

I love that my country as afforded me opportunity. I do realize I am lucky in some sense. But I also realize that good luck comes from opportunity and preparation. I am entitled to my earnings and to be "greedy" because it was I alone that stayed awake all night preparing for tests, stressing about clients, working full time jobs while in college full time, and taking risks. Anyone can do it.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Your conclusions are wrong. I don't see that he's greedy or hates his country. He just doesn't want to give his money away that he worked for.

What is your income? How much are you willing to give up? I'm all for a flat tax. Pick your percentage.

I am 100% for this. I also think EVERYONE needs to pay, even if it is a nominal fee. It is much better if everyone has skin in the game.

I don't mind paying taxes and am proud to say that I am part of the small percentage of earners in this country that carries everyone else. I don't lie or cheat or try to game the system. But all of this hatred toward the rich seems to come at people like me, those who earn a lot but are not rich, and it is unwarranted.

 

[werepossum]

I am a hard working business man. I have a day job and am the sole proprietor of a tech company. I do almost all of my own work, with help from a 1099 contractor that I pay in excess of $40/hour. I make gross somewhere around $500K/year and don't outsource, play dirty, or try to hide my money. I just sell my ass off and provide excellent service and support. I end up paying somewhere around $100K+/year in taxes.

Someone - please explain how I am abusing the system and how it is fair that I pay so much when I truly use so little.

HENRYs (high earner not rich yet) are NOT the problem. The problem are these bastards making millions of dollars in capital gains, only paying 15% tax, and unfairly lowering tax burden by writing off their jets, yachts, ski trips and vacation homes. The people who can afford to have 50 CPAs on staff to lower their tax burden and find loopholes need to be targeted, not the high earners.

This is the true problem, that everyone thinks everyone else significantly ahead of them (and often everyone significantly behind them too) is "the problem", so tax policy should hit them harder. We're all someone else to someone else. Randomrogue is right, if we're all pointing fingers at each other, the politicians are winning.

My proposal would be everyone pays the same rate on every dollar earned above the poverty line for their family size. No deductions, no federal subsidies (for those earning above the poverty line), and no empowering government to decide who is what and who needs what. If government is empowered to decide how much you need, it is also empowered to take away as much of that income beyond what you need as it wishes. That effectively makes you property.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

What does him working hard have anything to do with his greed and hate for the country?

I work just as hard, probably harder than him.

You don't really know what the fuck I do. How could you possibly say you work harder than me?

And it isn't just about the work. It is about what it took to get there, the risks you took, the sacrifice you made, and what could have happened if it didn't pan out. I don't care if you carry bags of cement up 100 flights of stairs for 16 hours a day. Yes, you "work" harder than me. But at the end of the day, it took no skill or planning to get that job. There was no risk and so there is very little reward. Pretty simple concept.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

This is the true problem, that everyone thinks everyone else significantly ahead of them (and often everyone significantly behind them too) is "the problem", so tax policy should hit them harder. We're all someone else to someone else. Randomrogue is right, if we're all pointing fingers at each other, the politicians are winning.

My proposal would be everyone pays the same rate on every dollar earned above the poverty line for their family size. No deductions, no federal subsidies (for those earning above the poverty line), and no empowering government to decide who is what and who needs what. If government is empowered to decide how much you need, it is also empowered to take away as much of that income beyond what you need as it wishes. That effectively makes you property.

I do agree with you. We need total reform, but as it stands that won't happen. For now, plugging loopholes for deductions would be an easy and great start.

 

[randomrogue]

I'm for the flat tax because I hope it would increase production, innovation, and be more fair. Although not as apparent in the USA, in Europe what you see is that the rich pay much more. So once you hit a certain salary it actually doesn't pay to make more. Granted this is part of the problem in places like Spain and Italy right now but my friends who live there refuse to work for more than I think 2000 Euro (might be 4000) a month since they get taxed so heavily. They then cheat the system and work under the table for whatever is above that tax bracket. You then have stories where someone was taxed 102% of their income:

In 1976, a scandal arose in Sweden when Lindgren's marginal tax rate was publicized to have risen to 102%. This was to be known as the "Pomperipossa effect" from a story she published in Expressen[7] on 3 March 1976. The publication led to a stormy tax debate. In the parliamentary election later in the same year the Social Democrat government was voted out for the first time in 44 years, and the Lindgren tax debate was one of several controversies that may have contributed to this result.

It makes more sense to tax everyone evenly. If you're living in poverty no taxes and federal aid for a couple years while you get an education/job.

 

[werepossum]

I'm not quite sure why you interpret what I wrote as greed and hate. We are all greedy, aren't we? The world median income is $7,000 USD/year. I say anyone who makes a penny over that and doesn't donate it to charity is greedy to some extent.

I love that my country as afforded me opportunity. I do realize I am lucky in some sense. But I also realize that good luck comes from opportunity and preparation. I am entitled to my earnings and to be "greedy" because it was I alone that stayed awake all night preparing for tests, stressing about clients, working full time jobs while in college full time, and taking risks. Anyone can do it.

It boggles my mind that wanting to keep the fruits of one's labor is considered greedy, whilst wanting something someone else earned for free is apparently not greedy.

You don't really know what the fuck I do. How could you possibly say you work harder than me?

And it isn't just about the work. It is about what it took to get there, the risks you took, the sacrifice you made, and what could have happened if it didn't pan out. I don't care if you carry bags of cement up 100 flights of stairs for 16 hours a day. Yes, you "work" harder than me. But at the end of the day, it took no skill or planning to get that job. There was no risk and so there is very little reward. Pretty simple concept.

What if they are rickety stairs?
1. Carry heavy loads up rickety stairs.
2.
3. Profit!

I do agree with you. We need total reform, but as it stands that won't happen. For now, plugging loopholes for deductions would be an easy and great start.

Agreed. We can't really afford a lot of deductions right now, and I suspect (WARNING: WILD ASS GUESS AHEAD!) that far too many deductions have either outlived their initial purpose or are being abused.

 

[thraashman]

At the core this is the difference between liberals and conservatives. You see it constanly on display in these forums.

Liberal - "hey, you've got more than me! You need to give!"
Conservative - "Hey, you've got more than me! How about you tell me how you did it so I can go earn more?"

Actually it's more like this:
Conservative (spidey version): Hey you have less than most. I should do everything in my ability to crush you because you're poor and thus you're obviously poor because you're lazy. I'm gonna make sure those godlike rich get more and more because I worship them as deities and must give them offerings!

Liberal (reality version): Um, don't the rich who are paying record low tax rates and not hiring have enough already? Don't you think the people who are barely getting by could use a bit of assistance. The rich sure aren't using all this money we're giving them to do anything, maybe we should end some of these tax breaks since they're just stockpiling money anyway and hurting the economy more.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

It boggles my mind that wanting to keep the fruits of one's labor is considered greedy, whilst wanting something someone else earned for free is apparently not greedy.


What if they are rickety stairs?
1. Carry heavy loads up rickety stairs.
2.
3. Profit!


Agreed. We can't really afford a lot of deductions right now, and I suspect (WARNING: WILD ASS GUESS AHEAD!) that far too many deductions have either outlived their initial purpose or are being abused.

Exactly. I'm sure there are deductions that made sense when initially framed and it was never considered that someone would be able to deduct their $100 million yacht with it.

What we have now are people that are rich enough that they can afford to hire armies of accountants and former IRS auditors to basically use the word of the law instead of the spirit to legally cheat the system.

America needs to change something, and we all need to pitch in. We need to collectively tighten the belt, not just on one department. Imagine if this were a work environment and human resources told us "Well, we aren't doing so well. There will be drastic changes and cutbacks... but only to those in middle-management. They will not extend to the lower ranks or upper-management."

 

[davmat787]

I am curious, what business is it of yours what he does with his money? Who are you to judge whether or not him buying a car, boat, or plane is right or wrong. People really need to butt out of other people's lives/business and start appreciating their own. This would fix half of the problem. "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods" are fine words and I am about as agnostic as they come before you try going down that road.

Amen brother! Well said.

 

[thraashman]

I am a hard working business man. I have a day job and am the sole proprietor of a tech company. I do almost all of my own work, with help from a 1099 contractor that I pay in excess of $40/hour. I make gross somewhere around $500K/year and don't outsource, play dirty, or try to hide my money. I just sell my ass off and provide excellent service and support. I end up paying somewhere around $100K+/year in taxes.

Someone - please explain how I am abusing the system and how it is fair that I pay so much when I truly use so little.

HENRYs (high earner not rich yet) are NOT the problem. The problem are these bastards making millions of dollars in capital gains, only paying 15% tax, and unfairly lowering tax burden by writing off their jets, yachts, ski trips and vacation homes. The people who can afford to have 50 CPAs on staff to lower their tax burden and find loopholes need to be targeted, not the high earners.

You know, I find it kinda amusing that if you're being honest your $100k on $500k is about 20% taxes. My current pay is below $100k but above $75k and my withholdings on my check are approx 32% and I receive only about 1.5% in refund amount. So I pay a 10% higher tax rate than someone who makes more than 5 times what I do?

 

[randomrogue]

We don't know his deductions or what he's investing/leaving in the company. When I was making a couple hundred grand a year with ZERO deductions (yeah that was bad) I was paying a boat load of money.