I want a shotgun

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Auggie
Be warned that if you pull out Old Trusty and have to use it for home defense - you'll face the evaluation from detectives and a DA, or even of a jury of your peers. Do you want them seeing some uber-sleek synthetic tactical shit on your shotgun? (Oh, he's a trained killer, that makes me uncomfortable, he probably killed the guy on purpose even after the danger was gone.) Or do you want them to pull out a shotgun that reminds them of the one their dad used to have?

I've always wondered what the rules are for shooting an intruder.

I live in WA, if I see someone break into my house and is in the act of stealing my shit, can i just shoot his ass. If he's running away, can i shoot him anyways as long as he's in my house?

You need to look at the laws in regard to your state.
In Texas, for example, if someone is in my house they are fair game. Front/back/side/top or bottom it doesn't matter where I shoot them. They are presumed, under Texas law, to be in my home to cause harm to me. I can also shoot them in the yard while they are fleeing IF they actually made entrance to the house or have committed a felony. It doesn't matter what I shoot them with be it a .22lr or a .50BMG. I still do have to concern myself with over penetration and any arrant rounds that leave my home. That is why I do not use my AR15 for home defense as a 5.56 will go through a window and keep going a good ways. 12g 00 buck will go through a window no problem, but my neighbors are far enough away that any shot that gets outside will not make it to their home.

 

[Unheard]

Take a look and see if you state honors the castle doctrine. If they are in your home, it assumes you are in fear of your life, and can do whatever it takes to stop the threat.

Also, the evil black shotgun is BS. If you kill an intruder, that is it, end of story.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Auggie
Be warned that if you pull out Old Trusty and have to use it for home defense - you'll face the evaluation from detectives and a DA, or even of a jury of your peers. Do you want them seeing some uber-sleek synthetic tactical shit on your shotgun? (Oh, he's a trained killer, that makes me uncomfortable, he probably killed the guy on purpose even after the danger was gone.) Or do you want them to pull out a shotgun that reminds them of the one their dad used to have?

Get that shit out of here. In more and more states, laws are being passed (even in Cali) that if you shoot someone in your home it's a good shoot.
Pick the best tool for the job.

OP, if you want a trap\skeet gun, You're going to want a SxS, Over/Under, or Semi Auto. Racking the slide will add time to your shots.
I'm looking at getting one of theseXtrema2

He does have a point, though. Don't forget that you can often be sued civilly, regardless of the criminal outcome.

You might be able to be sued in liberal land, but I am protected from civil liability in my state if the shooting is declared a good shoot by the cops/DA.
Before you even pick the gun you want to use, you need to educate yourself on the laws where you live and understand the consiquences of having to kill someone.

 

[KillerCharlie]

Seriously guys, that's not what this thread is about. I already know the issues of self-defense. Let me ask this again - should I go with 12 gauge?

 

[jlee]

.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
You might be able to be sued in liberal land, but I am protected from civil liability in my state if the shooting is declared a good shoot by the cops/DA.

Good for your state, then! Unfortunately, not all states are the same.

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Before you even pick the gun you want to use, you need to educate yourself on the laws where you live and understand the consiquences of having to kill someone.

I guarantee you that I am more familiar with the laws and consequences in my state than the vast majority of people here.

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
Seriously guys, that's not what this thread is about. I already know the issues of self-defense. Let me ask this again - should I go with 12 gauge?

Yes. Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 - you can't go wrong either way. I prefer (and own) an 870.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Auggie
Be warned that if you pull out Old Trusty and have to use it for home defense - you'll face the evaluation from detectives and a DA, or even of a jury of your peers. Do you want them seeing some uber-sleek synthetic tactical shit on your shotgun? (Oh, he's a trained killer, that makes me uncomfortable, he probably killed the guy on purpose even after the danger was gone.) Or do you want them to pull out a shotgun that reminds them of the one their dad used to have?

Get that shit out of here. In more and more states, laws are being passed (even in Cali) that if you shoot someone in your home it's a good shoot.
Pick the best tool for the job.

OP, if you want a trap\skeet gun, You're going to want a SxS, Over/Under, or Semi Auto. Racking the slide will add time to your shots.
I'm looking at getting one of theseXtrema2

It's decent advice should the case go to court and get to a jury. Regardless of state laws.

I live in Texas and I know damn well I wouldn't have criminal issues (cops wouldn't even press charges) in a home invasion/defense situation because of the Castle laws already mentioned. However should the case make it to civil trial it -may- matter.

That being said I wouldn't personally worry about it, again, I live in Texas...

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
Seriously guys, that's not what this thread is about. I already know the issues of self-defense. Let me ask this again - should I go with 12 gauge?

Have you fired a 12 gauge shotgun? They can be pretty punishing to shoot repeatedly if you're not used to it. For shooting clays I found that the 20 gauge is perfect for me. I can shoot it all day long and not get sore or tired.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Auggie
Be warned that if you pull out Old Trusty and have to use it for home defense - you'll face the evaluation from detectives and a DA, or even of a jury of your peers. Do you want them seeing some uber-sleek synthetic tactical shit on your shotgun? (Oh, he's a trained killer, that makes me uncomfortable, he probably killed the guy on purpose even after the danger was gone.) Or do you want them to pull out a shotgun that reminds them of the one their dad used to have?

Get that shit out of here. In more and more states, laws are being passed (even in Cali) that if you shoot someone in your home it's a good shoot.
Pick the best tool for the job.

OP, if you want a trap\skeet gun, You're going to want a SxS, Over/Under, or Semi Auto. Racking the slide will add time to your shots.
I'm looking at getting one of theseXtrema2

It's decent advice should the case go to court and get to a jury. Regardless of state laws.

I live in Texas and I know damn well I wouldn't have criminal issues (cops wouldn't even press charges) in a home invasion/defense situation because of the Castle laws already mentioned. However should the case make it to civil trial it -may- matter.

That being said I wouldn't personally worry about it, again, I live in Texas...

No need to worry about it in Texas.

http://www.rc123.com/texas_castle_doctrine.html

SECTION 4. Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, is amended to read as follows:

Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY [AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE]. A [It is an affirmative defense to a civil action for damages for personal injury or death that the] defendant who uses force or[, at the time the cause of action arose, was justified in using] deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9 [Section 9.32], Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant?s [against a person who at the time of the] use of force or deadly force, as applicable [was committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the defendant].

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Auggie
Be warned that if you pull out Old Trusty and have to use it for home defense - you'll face the evaluation from detectives and a DA, or even of a jury of your peers. Do you want them seeing some uber-sleek synthetic tactical shit on your shotgun? (Oh, he's a trained killer, that makes me uncomfortable, he probably killed the guy on purpose even after the danger was gone.) Or do you want them to pull out a shotgun that reminds them of the one their dad used to have?

Very on the spot. I don't think a lot of people think about that, but yeah if you have something with ghost ring sights, bayonet lugs and a matte black finish, it's going to look a lot worse for you in a retarded jury compared to something that looks like dad's old farm shotgun.

It's not I wouldn't be surprised if the gun was mentioned in intent arguments, i would be surprised if some idiot doesn't bring up something that looks like a Bernelli M4 that looks a lot more threatening than daddy's old 500 actually causes you problems during jury debate.

You kill an intruder in your own home and it doesn't matter what weapon you use. You won't even be charged in most states, that means it will never make it to a jury. There simply is nothing they can charge you with.

 

[Riverhound777]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
Seriously guys, that's not what this thread is about. I already know the issues of self-defense. Let me ask this again - should I go with 12 gauge?

Have you fired a 12 gauge shotgun? They can be pretty punishing to shoot repeatedly if you're not used to it. For shooting clays I found that the 20 gauge is perfect for me. I can shoot it all day long and not get sore or tired.

Get a 12 gauge, they are the most common and easiest to get ammo/parts/accessories for. Yes they kick more, but you get used to it. You might get some funny looks with a 20 gauge

 

[lokiju]

Mossberg 590 /thread.

It's the only military spec shot gun and is what the military uses.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: lokiju
Mossberg 590 /thread.

It's the only military spec shot gun and is what the military uses.

They also use the Beretta M9, and I would take my Glock 21SF over that any day of the week.

That said, I don't think I've ever heard a bad thing about Mossberg.

 

[Hammer]

i love my bennelli m4

edit: ah you wanted trap shooting... nm. i don't trap shoot.

 

[jgigz]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
Seriously guys, that's not what this thread is about. I already know the issues of self-defense. Let me ask this again - should I go with 12 gauge?

Have you fired a 12 gauge shotgun? They can be pretty punishing to shoot repeatedly if you're not used to it. For shooting clays I found that the 20 gauge is perfect for me. I can shoot it all day long and not get sore or tired.

If you willing to invest in reloading, get a 12g. the 7/8ths oz. load is a 20g load in a 12g gun. Its way cheaper than buying your own shells, and from my experiences easier to find parts (reloading that is) for and tend to be a bit cheaper. I still vote for the 1100 if you're a bit concerned about cost, though the other recommendations are very good as well.

 

[Cdubneeddeal]

You're going to shoot your eye out kid.

 

[Riverhound777]

To be honest your best bet would probably be to go to the range you plan to shoot at and get to know some people there. I can pretty much guarantee that someone there would be willing to sell you their used gun for a good price. And by used I mean the gun they just upgraded from that is probably nicer than most you will find at a gun store.

 

[Tea Bag]

Originally posted by: Hammer
i love my bennelli m4

edit: ah you wanted trap shooting... nm. i don't trap shoot.

Love it, shot trap with an m4 and the SBE II, my vote's for the SBE II. Worth it.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Riverhound777

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
Seriously guys, that's not what this thread is about. I already know the issues of self-defense. Let me ask this again - should I go with 12 gauge?

Have you fired a 12 gauge shotgun? They can be pretty punishing to shoot repeatedly if you're not used to it. For shooting clays I found that the 20 gauge is perfect for me. I can shoot it all day long and not get sore or tired.

Get a 12 gauge, they are the most common and easiest to get ammo/parts/accessories for. Yes they kick more, but you get used to it. You might get some funny looks with a 20 gauge

Yeah, I get funny looks from my friends when I'm still shooting after an hour and they are ready to pack it in because their shoulders are sore and bruised.:laugh:

Edit-I own 2 12 gauge shotguns and a 20 gauge. I loaded my Winchester 1200 12 gauge pump with 5 rounds of 3" magnum 00-buck loads once and I could only manage to fire 2 rounds of that load from the shoulder. It was fucking brutal...then again, I was only wearing a t-shirt.

 

[JDMnAR1]

I heartily recommend Mossberg anytime someone starts asking about shotguns and they aren't looking to break the bank. I own three (500, 835, 935) all in 12ga, and my son has a Maverick (Model 88) in 20ga. Mine have served me well over many seasons of being brutalized in dry, dusty 95+ degree dove fields and cold, wet sub-freezing duck blinds.

As for the 12ga vs 20ga debate, if you don't ever intend to use it for anything more substantial than skeet and the occasional dove or other small game, a 20 will do a fine job for you. If you might venture up to ducks, geese or larger game animals you will want a 12.

Edit: And for the naysayers saying you want to stay away from a pump because it is slow or tends to jam, don't listen to them. Granted, your follow up shot is going to be marginally slower, but in a typical doubles situation you aren't immediately on the second target following the first shot. After some practice, you will find that chambering the next round can be accomplished pretty fluidly while acquiring the second target. I also fail to see how jamming is going to be an issue in a pump, as the entire process is controlled by the shooter. Unless your gun is fouled or the shell is messed up, there isn't much to it. I have seen more FTE/FTF issues in semi-autos than pumps. My $0.02 as a bird hunter for 20+ years.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: JDMnAR1
Edit: And for the naysayers saying you want to stay away from a pump because it is slow or tends to jam, don't listen to them. Granted, your follow up shot is going to be marginally slower, but in a typical doubles situation you aren't immediately on the second target following the first shot. After some practice, you will find that chambering the next round can be accomplished pretty fluidly while acquiring the second target. I also fail to see how jamming is going to be an issue in a pump, as the entire process is controlled by the shooter. Unless your gun is fouled or the shell is messed up, there isn't much to it. I have seen more FTE/FTF issues in semi-autos than pumps. My $0.02 as a bird hunter for 20+ years.

only time I really get a jam is when I go too fast and the shell isn't ejected properly. Doesn't happen often but it is completely my fault

and to the OP, I love my 870 but you can't really go wrong with many of the suggestions here. My dad started me on smaller, single-shot guns until my aim improved. It's amazing how much more I concentrate when I know I only have 1 shot

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: paulney
Guys, why are shotguns still offered with wooden stock? For aesthetics? I thought synthetic stock would be a much more comfortable, utilitarian feature. Also, it looks much better than wood, IMO. Wood is just so.... WWII..

good luck repairing a synthetic stock in the field much of the time.

 

[KeithP]

Originally posted by: Auggie
Be warned that if you pull out Old Trusty and have to use it for home defense - you'll face the evaluation from detectives and a DA, or even of a jury of your peers. Do you want them seeing some uber-sleek synthetic tactical shit on your shotgun? (Oh, he's a trained killer, that makes me uncomfortable, he probably killed the guy on purpose even after the danger was gone.) Or do you want them to pull out a shotgun that reminds them of the one their dad used to have?

If you have a gun for home defense make sure to pick up a hand gun illegally as well. If you have to kill an intruder, you can drop the gun by his side and say he pointed it at you. Also, keep some surgical gloves handy to put on the perp if necessary. If he isn't wearing gloves you have to explain his finger prints not being on the planted weapon.

-KeithP

Edited to add

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: paulney
Guys, why are shotguns still offered with wooden stock? For aesthetics? I thought synthetic stock would be a much more comfortable, utilitarian feature. Also, it looks much better than wood, IMO. Wood is just so.... WWII..

A synthetic stock would make no difference whatsoever in comfort. Honestly, I love a nice wood stock like the ones found on finer rifles and shotguns. On military arms synthetic is the way to go though, it is more durable to scratching, chemicals, and wet environments.

Wood requires more care and is easier to scratch but it just looks so much better. I'm not talking about that crap they used on WWI era military arms or AK-47s either, I'm talking about the beautiful burled walnut stocks you'd find on upscale hunting rifles or shotguns.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: JDMnAR1
I heartily recommend Mossberg anytime someone starts asking about shotguns and they aren't looking to break the bank. I own three (500, 835, 935) all in 12ga, and my son has a Maverick (Model 88) in 20ga. Mine have served me well over many seasons of being brutalized in dry, dusty 95+ degree dove fields and cold, wet sub-freezing duck blinds.

As for the 12ga vs 20ga debate, if you don't ever intend to use it for anything more substantial than skeet and the occasional dove or other small game, a 20 will do a fine job for you. If you might venture up to ducks, geese or larger game animals you will want a 12.

Edit: And for the naysayers saying you want to stay away from a pump because it is slow or tends to jam, don't listen to them. Granted, your follow up shot is going to be marginally slower, but in a typical doubles situation you aren't immediately on the second target following the first shot. After some practice, you will find that chambering the next round can be accomplished pretty fluidly while acquiring the second target. I also fail to see how jamming is going to be an issue in a pump, as the entire process is controlled by the shooter. Unless your gun is fouled or the shell is messed up, there isn't much to it. I have seen more FTE/FTF issues in semi-autos than pumps. My $0.02 as a bird hunter for 20+ years.

I completely agree with this post (although would add that the 870 is just as reliable of a gun.) The pump really doesn't add any noticeable time between shots for the average shooter. After the kick, it becomes completely automatic while you reacquire your target - it happens within a second. I generally don't even realize I'm doing this - it's become so automatic of a response. When I unload my gun so that I can attend to a deer that's down, I still always think to myself, "how'd that get in there? I don't remember doing that?"

As far as the "you'll get used to it." Everyone wants to be seen as a tough guy. The 20 gauge will work just fine. Hell, even for deer, they're equally effective (assuming a slug & slug barrel.) I've never heard "well, if I had a 12 gauge instead of a 20 gauge, that deer would be dead."