I will never look at Amazon the same way ... ever

[dud]

Please read this article and draw your own conclusions ...

The human cost of Amazon's fast, free shipping

A preview:

"When she added Gabrielle’s name to the chart in her kitchen, Judy Kennedy could picture the annual ritual. At birthdays she would ask her newest grandchild to stand up straight, heels against the door frame, so she could mark Gabrielle’s height beside that of her other granddaughter in the Maine house the family has lived in since the 1800s.

But there are no lines for Gabrielle. In January, the 9-month-old was killed when a driver delivering Amazon.com packages crashed a 26-foot rented box truck into the back of her mother’s Jeep. The baby was strapped into a car seat in the back. The delivery driver, a subcontractor ferrying pallets of Amazon boxes from suburban Boston to five locations in Maine, said in an interview that he was running late and failed to spot the Jeep in time to avoid the crash.

If Gabrielle’s parents, who have hired lawyers, try to hold Amazon accountable, they will confront a company that shields itself from liability for accidents involving the drivers who deliver its billions of packages a year. In its relentless push for e-commerce dominance, Amazon has built a huge logistics operation in recent years to get more goods to customers’ homes in less and less time. As it moves to reduce its reliance on legacy carriers like United Parcel Service, the retailer has created a network of contractors across the country that allows the company to expand and shrink the delivery force as needed, while avoiding the costs of taking on permanent employees."

The article continues ...

 

[Puffnstuff]

The same can be said for every other business out there on a schedule as they're all rushing their employees to get things done.

 

[balloonshark]

How else is a company supposed to make ever increasing profits to benefit the few? Welcome to runaway capitalism. Even my local small hospital/group contracts out things like cleaning services.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Even my local small hospital/group contracts out things like cleaning services.

I don't know too many companies that retain their own janitorial services apart from hospitals.

 

[pmv]

So this isn't about Amazon as such, so much as their courier service (Amazon Prime, I guess)? Never seen the point in it, myself.

I don't understand the obsession with 'next day shipping'. What is all this stuff that you only realise you need 24 hours before you need it? Just order the thing (whatever it is) a few days before you need it. If you've run out of toilet paper, just walk to the damn shop!

I'm happy with just the normal post office - it'll turn up in a few days, that's fine by me. And maybe I'll have to walk to the depot to collect it. That's fine, I have legs. In the mean time I have other things to do

Everyone's rushing around like a nutter these days. Whether it's couriers or taxi-drivers, half the population seems to be trying to earn a living by frantically driving around the streets on behalf of the other half's mad obsession with convenience and never walking anywhere.

If unnecessary driving jobs are all the economy can offer people, maybe there's something wrong with that economy?

 

[Moonbeam]

If your invest in a business driven by a sociopath, you will win.

 

[Brainonska511]

I saw the BuzzFeed News article on this the other day - it seems like Amazon is pulling the same shit other companies do with phoney independent contractors. They farm out work to these paper companies to shield themselves from liability and labor issues.

I was already pretty set in not using Prime, now I definitely won't sign up again, and will seek to make my purchases through other companies.

 

[whm1974]

I saw the BuzzFeed News article on this the other day - it seems like Amazon is pulling the same shit other companies do with phoney independent contractors. They farm out work to these paper companies to shield themselves from liability and labor issues.

I was already pretty set in not using Prime, now I definitely won't sign up again, and will seek to make my purchases through other companies.

I had Prime before bit that mostly watching videos.

 

[WelshBloke]

I will never look at Amazon the same way ... ever

See I thought that you were going to say that you just found their "secret" sex section!

 

[KeithP]

According to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration website, in the 24-month period prior to December 3, 2017, UPS drivers were reported to have been involved in 2,003 crashes, 689 involving injuries, including 49 deaths. Since 2012, the number of crashes has increased by 38%; the number of injures has increased by 27%; and the number of fatalities has increased by 25.6%. Those may seem like crazy high statistics, but wait until we get to FedEx. Their numbers are astronomical.

Also according the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Admnistration, in the 24-month period prior to December 3, 2017, FedEx Express drivers were reported to have been involved in 1762 crashes, 575 involving injuries, including 41 deaths. Since 2012, the number of crashes has increased by 254.5%; the number of injuries has increased by 192%; and the number of fatalities has increased by 273%. 273%! That is awful

I guess I missed the hit pieces on UPS and FedEx. Amazon is being targeted because their name gets clicks and their fights with labor unions. If there is a problem here, then it is certainly larger than just Amazon.

-KeithP

 

[Fenixgoon]

I guess I missed the hit pieces on UPS and FedEx. Amazon is being targeted because their name gets clicks and their fights with labor unions. If there is a problem here, then it is certainly larger than just Amazon.

-KeithP

making everything "as a service" so people are contractors and the company can avoid all liability and maximize profits?

 

[Mai72]

I believe Dominos pizza had this issue years ago with their 30m or less pizza delivery or else it's free system. Domino drivers were getting into car accidents trying to meet the 30m timeframe. They were driving thru red lights, etc. They had to end the delivery, and went back to standard delivery.

 

[Mai72]

So this isn't about Amazon as such, so much as their courier service (Amazon Prime, I guess)? Never seen the point in it, myself.

I don't understand the obsession with 'next day shipping'. What is all this stuff that you only realise you need 24 hours before you need it? Just order the thing (whatever it is) a few days before you need it. If you've run out of toilet paper, just walk to the damn shop!

I'm happy with just the normal post office - it'll turn up in a few days, that's fine by me. And maybe I'll have to walk to the depot to collect it. That's fine, I have legs. In the mean time I have other things to do

Everyone's rushing around like a nutter these days. Whether it's couriers or taxi-drivers, half the population seems to be trying to earn a living by frantically driving around the streets on behalf of the other half's mad obsession with convenience and never walking anywhere.

If unnecessary driving jobs are all the economy can offer people, maybe there's something wrong with that economy?

Amazon is just feeding into Americas need to have it NOW! Who wants to wait 3 days when you can have it NOW NOW NOW!

This is the big draw for Amazon Prime. 1-2 day shipping. It's why Amazon is tinkering with drones. They see an opening and are trying to capatalize on it. People hate waiting.

 

[Muse]

So this isn't about Amazon as such, so much as their courier service (Amazon Prime, I guess)? Never seen the point in it, myself.

I don't understand the obsession with 'next day shipping'. What is all this stuff that you only realise you need 24 hours before you need it? Just order the thing (whatever it is) a few days before you need it. If you've run out of toilet paper, just walk to the damn shop!

I'm happy with just the normal post office - it'll turn up in a few days, that's fine by me. And maybe I'll have to walk to the depot to collect it. That's fine, I have legs. In the mean time I have other things to do

Everyone's rushing around like a nutter these days. Whether it's couriers or taxi-drivers, half the population seems to be trying to earn a living by frantically driving around the streets on behalf of the other half's mad obsession with convenience and never walking anywhere.

If unnecessary driving jobs are all the economy can offer people, maybe there's something wrong with that economy?

Agreed, thoroughly. 2 day shipping usually means nothing to me. Most of the stuff I get online, doesn't really matter if I get it in 3 days or 6 or 9. I order stuff from Asia, can take 6 weeks, maybe more.

 

[Bitek]

I love Amazon, and I love prime. The selection of products vs a B&M is no comparison.

I have better things to do than going around to stores only to find shitty products, if they happen to be in stock at all. Not too long ago everyone used to piss and moan about the big box stores and urban sprawl, now we p&m about Amazon who is doing the job 100x better.

That said, I think Amazon does need to be accountable for their impacts on their employees as well as the environment. No free rides, no winning by cheating.

 

[pmv]

I guess I missed the hit pieces on UPS and FedEx. Amazon is being targeted because their name gets clicks and their fights with labor unions. If there is a problem here, then it is certainly larger than just Amazon.

-KeithP

Maybe this thread is focussed on Amazon, but I don't think the story is in general presented that way - there have been any number of documentaries and news stories here about how horrible it is being a courier. As far as I know they all are based on piece-work (perhaps there's an "ethical" exception somewhere) and involve tremendous pressure to meet unrealistic targets, often working out at astonishingly low wage rates.

I've just assumed it's part of the general "gig economy" thing, along with the likes of Uber. It's depressing, and personally I used to always just stick with the Royal Mail - but then they privatised that, and I've heard it's starting to go the same way.

The other issue, which I've wondered about before, is that these companies use a 'socialised' resource, in the form of the roads. I don't think they really pay the true rental cost of those roads (or the other externalities of road travel), so they are effectively subsidised by society as a whole.

Mainly though, as I said, I don't really get why everyone is obsessed with getting their consumer tat faster and faster. It takes me days to get round to replacing a blown light-bulb.


Edit -from a consumer point-of-view, I'd say reliability was far more important than speed. I don't care if it takes a week, just as long as it doesn't disappear en-route and require me to chase up where it's gone. And if I'm out when I need to sign for it, leave a damn calling-card to tell me!

 

[dud]

I guess I missed the hit pieces on UPS and FedEx. Amazon is being targeted because their name gets clicks and their fights with labor unions. If there is a problem here, then it is certainly larger than just Amazon.

-KeithP

I did not start this thread to “target” Amazon. IF, and I mean IF you get into an accident with a courier ... you do not want it to be with a contracted Amazon one. If a Corp Fedex or UPS truck hits you ... you sue the Corp and (hopefully) get compensated. If you get hit by a contracted Amazon truck you could very well be SOL.

I cringed as I read about the families destroyed by Amazon’s “hands off” approach to their deliveries. They make the profit but want none of the responsibility for earning it. It’s a great strategy for the company and its investors ... not so much for the hapless victims.

 

[Jaskalas]

They make the profit but want none of the responsibility for earning it. It’s a great strategy for the company and its investors ... not so much for the hapless victims.

Capitalism.txt

No, seriously, as the contract employee approach produces cheaper products, and claims victory over the economy, EVERYONE is going to be doing it before long. For all kinds of services. We live in a gig economy now where your employer is some flybynight contractor who'll vanish the second something goes wrong.

 

[DrunkenSano]

This is just a visible result of Capitalism and greed running wild without any limits or regulation. This is certainly one of the dark sides of capitalism, where lives do not matter, only the maximization of profits. Capitalism is great, but there needs to be a cap.

 

[Brainonska511]

I did not start this thread to “target” Amazon. IF, and I mean IF you get into an accident with a courier ... you do not want it to be with a contracted Amazon one. If a Corp Fedex or UPS truck hits you ... you sue the Corp and (hopefully) get compensated. If you get hit by a contracted Amazon truck you could very well be SOL.

I cringed as I read about the families destroyed by Amazon’s “hands off” approach to their deliveries. They make the profit but want none of the responsibility for earning it. It’s a great strategy for the company and its investors ... not so much for the hapless victims.

The article from BuzzFeed News also pointed out that UPS and FedEx trucks are heavy enough to fall under federal regulations for DOT inspection (which can happen at any point) whereas these contractors use light vans that only need yearly state inspections and do not fall under the purview of the DOT. The drivers also might not need a CDL to drive a light van either... Just walk in off the street with minimal training and a normal license.

 

[zinfamous]

I did not start this thread to “target” Amazon. IF, and I mean IF you get into an accident with a courier ... you do not want it to be with a contracted Amazon one. If a Corp Fedex or UPS truck hits you ... you sue the Corp and (hopefully) get compensated. If you get hit by a contracted Amazon truck you could very well be SOL.

I cringed as I read about the families destroyed by Amazon’s “hands off” approach to their deliveries. They make the profit but want none of the responsibility for earning it. It’s a great strategy for the company and its investors ... not so much for the hapless victims.

yes, this. The point isn't "how many accidents/deaths are occurring because of delivery policy," it's that Amazon is moving to completely shelter itself from all liability for those accidents, unlike UPS or FedEx.

That's a serious issue. Without liability, there is effectively no reason for them to ever care about addressing it. It's no longer an actual "cost of doing business" in a single row on their spreadsheet.

 

[senseamp]

I got rear ended by a gardener driving a pick up truck and by a soccer mom driving a minivan. I will never look at gardening and parenting the same way, ever.

 

[Jaskalas]

This is just a visible result of Capitalism and greed running wild without any limits or regulation. This is certainly one of the dark sides of capitalism, where lives do not matter, only the maximization of profits. Capitalism is great, but there needs to be a cap.

Agreed. It needs to maintain a healthy balance.

Republicans scream and call that communism.

 

[WelshBloke]

I got rear ended by a gardener driving a pick up truck and by a soccer mom driving a minivan. I will never look at gardening and parenting the same way, ever.

A surprise rear ending can certainly make you look at things in a different way.

 

[Muse]

Maybe this thread is focussed on Amazon, but I don't think the story is in general presented that way - there have been any number of documentaries and news stories here about how horrible it is being a courier. As far as I know they all are based on piece-work (perhaps there's an "ethical" exception somewhere) and involve tremendous pressure to meet unrealistic targets, often working out at astonishingly low wage rates.

I've just assumed it's part of the general "gig economy" thing, along with the likes of Uber. It's depressing, and personally I used to always just stick with the Royal Mail - but then they privatised that, and I've heard it's starting to go the same way.

The other issue, which I've wondered about before, is that these companies use a 'socialised' resource, in the form of the roads. I don't think they really pay the true rental cost of those roads (or the other externalities of road travel), so they are effectively subsidised by society as a whole.

Mainly though, as I said, I don't really get why everyone is obsessed with getting their consumer tat faster and faster. It takes me days to get round to replacing a blown light-bulb.


Edit -from a consumer point-of-view, I'd say reliability was far more important than speed. I don't care if it takes a week, just as long as it doesn't disappear en-route and require me to chase up where it's gone. And if I'm out when I need to sign for it, leave a damn calling-card to tell me!

Reminds me of my shopping junket to Costco today. Pretty crowded store, but what bothered me is the callousness, lack of consideration of the clientele, and the hurries they were in. For once, I too was in a hurry because I had a medical appointment to keep. Usually, I have no "good" reason to hurry. It varies, but being human and compassionate is something you should never lose, for any "reason."