Question i5-4670k - Still Enough for Civ7?

[maniac5999]

So I've been gaming a lot less than I used to (I'm getting old) and I normally play strategy games, which aren't particularly hardware intense. My last big upgrade was a 1060 6GB for Civ6. Now that Civ 7's coming out, I'm in a similar situation again.

I built what was a pretty good system a decade ago, and have just been swapping a part here and a part there. I'm still sitting on a stock speed i5 4670k (it never overclocked well) and a boatload (32GB) of DDR3 RAM. Obviously, this'll all have to go if I upgrade. I'm also sitting on a very high quality 450W PSU that may limit me, so take that into account for recommendations or price to upgrade. (it was a HTPC/Media server in my bedroom for years, and this one was very quiet/efficient for the time)

What do you think? Can I get away with keeping my old CPU a bit longer or do I need to bite the bullet? If it matters, I have a 60Hz 4k display that I'd be gaming on, and have a second one for productivity.

If you vote upgrade, what should I get? No hard budget, but I have other things like hookers and blow that I could spend the money on instead. (Ok, but for real, I have a mortgage I'm trying to pay down fast because the interest rate is ugly) Obviously, I tend to keep things for a long time. I probably shouldn't decrease the RAM, since a lot of my productivity programs are RAM hogs. I probably should also upgrade to a PCIe SSD while I'm in there.

 

[Shmee]

I don't know what the recommended hardware will be for Civ VII, but judging by those of Civ Vi, the 4th generation i5 may be at the lower end. Of course we don't know for sure how your system would do till the game is out.

Based on you playing mostly strategy games, I would recommend waiting till the game is out, and then building a new system. You could probably reuse the 1060 if desired, but I would recommend a new build otherwise, new PSU for sure. For RAM I would probably go with 48GB or 64GB of DDR5, and of course I would recommend an NVMe SSD. But all of this could wait until there is a game that doesn't play well (such as Civ VII) and then you could go through with the upgrade.

 

[Tech Junky]

The most taxing part is on the GPU after it loads. It gets pegged during the duration of play.

A full upgrade though should yield a better experience overall. Relegate it back to an htpc for storage and playback or incorporate the functions into the new setup. Besides the M2 drives there's also NVME 2.5's that are called U.2 or U.3 that run full speed like an M2 but cooler and higher capacity for a bit cheaper and beyond 8TB.

 

[Shmee]

The most taxing part is on the GPU after it loads. It gets pegged during the duration of play.

A full upgrade though should yield a better experience overall. Relegate it back to an htpc for storage and playback or incorporate the functions into the new setup. Besides the M2 drives there's also NVME 2.5's that are called U.2 or U.3 that run full speed like an M2 but cooler and higher capacity for a bit cheaper and beyond 8TB.

I thought that a lot of strategy games were typically more CPU bound. Not that some don't benefit from nice graphics, but many of them, especially older ones, will benefit more from strong low-threaded performance in CPUs, so the next 3D cache Ryzen might be a great upgrade. Though some newer strategy games such as Ashes of the Singularity are great at taking advantage of many cores.

As for u.2 and u.3 drives, that is a whole other can of worms...OP could get into that, but they are not exactly consumer oriented, but designed for enterprise servers. Yes enthusiasts can also have fun with them, but for an AM5 board or next gen Intel equivalent board, he would also need to buy an adapter card and cables for those to work. For someone who isn't always tweaking or upgrading, m.2 drives are simpler.

 

[Tech Junky]

many cores

Well, that's possible too. I know my 12700h/3060 pegs the GPU and the CPU just sits at a lower percentage. As for the drive max it hits is 1GB\s while loading and that's bursts and not sustained after it loads to the GPU. After things are loaded the drive sits idle.

It will be interesting to see if the coders make use of the higher performance gear or stick with slow options.

 

[gdansk]

It's hard to say.
I'd tend toward "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" especially if you have a high interest rate mortgage. Secondly, I think it would be hard to make a modern gaming PC on a 450W PSU. Maybe a 65/88W CPU and RTX 4060 (even still Nvidia recommends 550W). You may have to replace more parts than you'd want.

 

[blckgrffn]

I posted this in another thread, but do you have an Microcenter in range of aquisition?

A 7600x/Nice Board/32GB (or 48GB) of ram setup can be had for about $400. You could expect to drop a new CPU, if you desired, into this board 4-5 years from now. I feel strongly this the analog to your i5 setup from a decade ago and will age well.

A 5700x3D chip on the last gasp of AM4 is also available.

You could save a $100 and get a 5600 based rig that would be absolutely still an upgrade for maybe $300.

All of these plus a decent nvme like a Crucial P3 Plus 1TB are great values for the amount of uplift they will bring, and you can change them all to “Eco” 65W settings for a tiny reduction in peak all core performance but to keep your PSU safely in the game.

I hung onto by my hextacore Sandy Bridge for too long. You will be able to tell for sure.

These options would all “uncap” your 1060 and you would never wonder if your CPU or the GPU is holding you back.

Finally, you current setup has one year of windows updates left, essentially. If you wanted to recoup any value by selling it on fire sale via marketplace/craigslist, now is the time.

My $.02. You’re worth it

(And you will have skipped DDR4! Achievement unlocked !)

 

[maniac5999]

I posted this in another thread, but do you have an Microcenter in range of aquisition?

....

All of these plus a decent nvme like a Crucial P3 Plus 1TB are great values for the amount of uplift they will bring, and you can change them all to “Eco” 65W settings for a tiny reduction in peak all core performance but to keep your PSU safely in the game.

....

My $.02. You’re worth it

(And you will have skipped DDR4! Achievement unlocked !)

No microcenter is particularly close, but there are four that are within 'reasonable' range. (an hour or a little more, basically, just long enough that I'm sure to check that everything's in stock first)

I can easily spend more to get more, I just don't want to spend a ton to get the latest and greatest when spending a quarter of that now then again in five years will end up with me having enough now, and better PC 5+ years down the line with upgrades.

FWIW, the PSU's one of the 450W Corsairs that was overbuilt to the point that it was basically a quality 550W with the number of outputs scaled down to make it 450W. Even with it's age I can probably still push it to the full rated 450W. If I was going to replace it now though, I'd probably bite the bullet and just go for a quality 750-1000W that I'll never need to replace again.

Thanks for the $0.02, and Yay for the achievement! (not counting the work laptops that had it) I was hoping to skip to DDR6, but oh well. P.S. Anybody want DDR2 RAM for cheap?

 

[Kryohi]

Writing as someone who once had a 4670k, I'd say run away.
I first upgraded to an R5 3600 and that already provided a massive improvement in any task I used my computer for, including strategy games (and I had an old Polaris card). It was also cooler and better for my electricity bills.

If your budget is low, go for any DDR4 system I'd say, an R5 5600 or a 12600K would be more than enough.
If you want to upgrade again the cpu at some point in the future, go for a 7600X and ddr5 instead.

 

[nurturedhate]

CPUs like 5800x3d and 7800x3d do well in simulation and 4x games. If I recall they speed up turn times in civ games substantially in late game.

 

[blckgrffn]

Do you need to work around an mATX case? Do you know the clearance allowed for the cooler?

MC being an hour away makes it worth it, imo. Especially if the board or something is DOA, I like the immediate gratification of a return, but that’s me.

 

[maddogmcgee]

Basically every game I play is either turn based strategy or pausable real time strategy. I have no real issues turning the graphics down but eventually these type of games slow down to a slog and basically force you to start a new game due to the cpu and ram requirements. The improvement I saw in a game like Stellaris or Hearts of Iron from a 3600x to 5800x3d was huge. It let me player bigger maps for longer at a higher frame rate. Your gain is going to be even bigger. IMHO it will 100 percent be worth it to upgrade. If you are likely to keep the setup for a decade, I would wait for the 9800x3d and new intel cpus to come out late this year/early next year then pop back for some advice.

A 7900x3d build with at least 32gb ram (64gb would be better) and a decent SSD will be a huge improvement if you want to upgrade now. I have been noticing more game take advantage of more ram. Stardock games (sins of a solar empire 2, Gal Civ 4 etc) often limit map sized based on ram available.

As for the GPU. I have no real idea as I game at 2k with a stronger card. I guess if you upscale from 1080p, performance should be ok. Perhaps you would actually be better off gaming on the productivity monitor at 1080p or 2k while you keep the 1060?

Personally I am hanging out for the 9800x3d so I can get my Oxygen Not Included map above 30fps.

 

[blckgrffn]

If you are likely to keep the setup for a decade, I would wait for the 9800x3d and new intel cpus to come out late this year/early next year then pop back for some advice.

A 7900x3d build with at least 32gb ram (64gb would be better) and a decent SSD will be a huge improvement if you want to upgrade now. I have been noticing more game take advantage of more ram. Stardock games (sins of a solar empire 2, Gal Civ 4 etc) often limit map sized based on ram.

Personally I am hanging out for the 9800x3d so I can get my Oxygen Not Included map above 30fps.

I am a little sour on the 9800x3d being as big of a jump as the 7800x3d was over the first gen 5800x3D seeing how Zen 5 just hasn’t proven itself to be that optimized for desktop PC use so far. A lot of the clock speed increases were realized Zen 3 to Zen 4. And even once they are out, waiting for them to take a price adjustment… just a lot of waiting for what could be a 5-10% incremental upgrade.

I still think getting a 7800x3D right now is a big brain choice - it’s going to be 100% wider than the 4670 in terms of cores and and I don’t know, up to 100% faster per clock? More? It’s a huuuuuge step up AND they’ve already gotten cheaper - $275 at Microcenter when bought with a board and ram - so the value is there too.

As for ram - good point. With DDR5 you could get all the way to 96GB (like 32 GB of DDR2!) for “only” about $210. So much ram in a client PC. To me this also seems like a good value if high ram is the goal.

Finally, it’s a near certainty that in 4-5 years a Zen 6 3D part will be available and work in AM5.

OP could spend $600 and get a 3D chip, 96GB of ddr5 and an extremely solid 670E chipset board with all the latest in USB and PCIe settings and wow would it scoot compared to what he’s got.

Now is a sweet time to upgrade imo, the inverse of the GPU market right now where everything is getting old but outside of a 7900xt or 4070 Super there has not been much “value” added to either lineup.

Add a $35 Thermalright cooler of his choice and bam, instant huuuuuuuuuuge speed up. Yeah, the GPU will keep fps low but at least turns will still be super fast and it will chug so much less.

 

[tcsenter]

i7-4790 non-K or 4770K can be had for only $30 delivered (in US) from sources.

 

[Tech Junky]

i7-4790 non-K or 4770K can be had for only $30 delivered (in US) from sources.

Is that just to pend $30?
Seems a bit obtuse.

 

[tcsenter]

Is that just to pend $30?
Seems a bit obtuse.

Is double the threads (4 to 8), 2MB more L3, and 100MHz ~ 200MHz higher total frequency, for only $30 worth it? I don't know, possibly. Man said he's on a budget.

 

[Zepp]

i7-4790 non-K or 4770K can be had for only $30 delivered (in US) from sources.

doesn't the 5775C also work in the Haswell boards?

 

[Tech Junky]

budget

I think we're all on a budget but, a system almost 11 gens behind it makes sense to not throw $30 at it for what's more likely to convert to a storage server though the extra threads would make media conversions quicker. At a minimum ADL would be a good path for now and prices have dropped enough to make a compelling argument.

 

[tcsenter]

doesn't the 5775C also work in the Haswell boards?

If it supports i5-4670K it should have received a BIOS to support 5775C unless it's an OEM system/board. Losing 100MHz, same L3 cache, for going price of $85 (no US sellers as of this post).

I think we're all on a budget but, a system almost 11 gens behind it makes sense to not throw $30 at it for what's more likely to convert to a storage server though the extra threads would make media conversions quicker. At a minimum ADL would be a good path for now and prices have dropped enough to make a compelling argument.

I thought he was asking and it was up in the air. But now that you seem to have resolved for him and everyone else that this system will be retired as a media or storage server, then I would have proposed a different CPU upgrade, to one of the lower-power S models, such as i7-4770S or i7-4790S, either of which can be had for the same $30.

 

[maniac5999]

Do you need to work around an mATX case? Do you know the clearance allowed for the cooler?

MC being an hour away makes it worth it, imo. Especially if the board or something is DOA, I like the immediate gratification of a return, but that’s me.

I've got a mid-sized ATX case. (I chose it mostly for acoustics, with not being a vomit of LEDs as a secondary concern) I need to be mildly aware of the height of a tower cooler, but that's about it.

My time is valuable. MC isn't that convenient (and I'm in NYC while the MCs are in the 'burbs - The drive would be a pain) I might just go for Amazon, depending on the price differences.

I thought he was asking and it was up in the air. But now that you seem to have resolved for him and everyone else that this system will be retired as a media or storage server, then I would have proposed a different CPU upgrade, to one of the lower-power S models, such as i7-4770S or i7-4790S, either of which can be had for the same $30.

That's news to me. I'm done with trying to make a HTPC work. Modern solutions are just too seamless for me to bother dealing with codec support, tuner cards, or anything like that ever again. I'll probably just put the old parts up on ebay or something unless I just get lazy and throw them out or donate them somewhere.

FWIW, the budget can go up as well as down. I've got other things I'm more than happy to spend the money on, but if it makes sense to spend money now to save money later I'm happy to plop down the CC. So far it's sounding that if I go AMD a DDR5 (AM5?) board is the right call. If the consensus is also that I need to upgrade the PSU for everything to work, either with the 1060, or whatever the replacement card ends up being, now would be the time to do it, so I don't have to re-do all the cable management when/if I get a new card.

On a different topic: Somebody in this thread just mentioned that SoSE 2 just came out. I wasn't even aware that it was in development. I loved the original game and spent an embarrassing amount of time playing it. (almost 900 hours according to Steam) I just bought it, and I'll spend the weekend playing it to see how the system responds to a current game & then report back.

Thanks so far everybody!

 

[blckgrffn]

My time is valuable. MC isn't that convenient (and I'm in NYC while the MCs are in the 'burbs - The drive would be a pain) I might just go for Amazon, depending on the price differences.

Yup, I get it. When we say an hour away here, its probably a 3 hour real trip and 2 hours of it being bad driving (and burning a decent amount of gas, perhaps) definitley saps the value. Even my latest builds we sourced about 50% of the components from Amazon and just the core bits from Microcenter. It helped that we were saving something like $300+ over two builds to make it work.

On the PSU front, I found this to be a solid value right now at Amazon (RM850x for $115):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08R5JPTMZ/ref=twister_B0D9DDLCYY

The 1k is a beefier unit - the casing is significantly longer - but maybe worth it in that its another forever PSU. The Shift is available with the latest stuff all ready to go.

I only mention this because you said you had a quality Corsair unit and I thought this is a good value now.

Also, this appears to be a decent cooler that really stays low:

https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-Peerless-Assassin-TL-D12B-Desktop/dp/B0CQPV16QC/ref=sr_1_1

Just used one last night, the single fan version. It seems to have no issues with the 7800x3D at all, as most coolers should not, assuming you go that way. It's just sort of easy mode for not dealing with massive towers and middling clearance.

 

[tcsenter]

FWIW here is RTX 4060 Ti (165W board power) review tested on Ryzen 7 7800X3D 120W, Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master, 32GB DDR5-6000. Max total system power consumption under load= < 300 watts. Same test setup, but with 285W RTX 4070 Ti = 401 watts.

 

[Markfw]

Interesting timing. I had a friend give me a system that I just have made later than 2013 (the CPU was released sometime after 2013) socket 1150. She was an MBA and it was only used for accounting, nothing strenuous. but it won't even post. The latest I could have built it was 2015, since I left the company (retired) Then. Now it won't even post ! It has a large aftermarket heatsink, and a CS 450 Corsair power supply. It sort of powers on for a second, then shuts off, no bios screen. Its DOA now.

My point is that an 8 year old quality system used for only accounting (using the internal video) DIED in 8 years. I would definitely replace the whole system.

 

[tcsenter]

My point is that an 8 year old quality system used for only accounting (using the internal video) DIED in 8 years. I would definitely replace the whole system.

Check that Corsair PSU they aren't all as "quality" as previously reported especially the entry level wattage range segment. LOTS of them go after four, five years.

 

[Markfw]

Check that Corsair PSU they aren't all as "quality" as previously reported especially the entry level wattage range segment. LOTS of them go after four, five years.

it turns on, all the fans work, but then it shuts off. I do have a PSU tester and I can try that, but not even posting and showing bios is a very bad sign.