i5 or i7 for my needs

[2is]

How is 30% not significant?

30% is a bigger difference than most things get between a 2500k and a 4570k. I'd say that's pretty significant and could certainly hold off an upgrade.

Granted, it's not going to be 30% for everything, in fact, it won't be 30% for many things at all, but for the applications that do get near that type of scaling, and with Intel's current generational improvements, that's easily a couple generations wroth of performance for $100

 

[toyota]

Granted it is impossible to say what future performance needs will be, but I am not sure that hyper threading will make the difference between upgrading and not. How much difference does hyperthreading really make, 20 or 30 percent max?

lol and how much did Haswell make over Ivy? or Ivy over Sandy? considering that Sandy will typically oc higher than Haswell there really has been nothing to upgrade too as for as IPC. looking back I probably should have gone with 2600k 2 years ago and I would be fine for a couple more years.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

How is 30% not significant?

30% is a bigger difference than most things get between a 2500k and a 4570k. I'd say that's pretty significant and could certainly hold off an upgrade.

Granted, it's not going to be 30% for everything, in fact, it won't be 30% for many things at all, but for the applications that do get near that type of scaling, and with Intel's current generational improvements, that's easily a couple generations wroth of performance for $100

30% is significant, so is only a few titles in the five years since the i7 has been on the market where it made any difference with a quad core.

2013 is too early to worry about what will happen in 2014/15, by then we'll be at 14nm and on a new uarch.

 

[frozentundra123456]

How is 30% not significant?

30% is a bigger difference than most things get between a 2500k and a 4570k. I'd say that's pretty significant and could certainly hold off an upgrade.

Granted, it's not going to be 30% for everything, in fact, it won't be 30% for many things at all, but for the applications that do get near that type of scaling, and with Intel's current generational improvements, that's easily a couple generations wroth of performance for $100

I didnt say it was not significant. Problem is there is only one game that shows that much increase with hyperthreading, and I really would like to see those benchmarks repeated, as it is very unusual to see more than really 5 to 10 percent in games.

Guess what I was trying to say, is that if an i5 becomes unacceptable for gaming or productivity, it might be necessary to move to a true hex core, not just the difference hyperthreading might bring.

 

[2is]

In games that can properly use 4+ cores, HT has shown to be an improvement. In games that don't, it hasn't.

I don't think an i5 will ever be "unacceptable" for gaming, I do think the i7 will start to show more advantages over i5's though and will allow you to stretch that initial $100 investment longer.

Time will tell, but people who want to buy now don't have the luxury of time, so instead they get to hear our arguments for and against, and make up their own mind.

 

[scannall]

Save the money. Throw that $100 difference into a more powerful GPU. Better bang for the buck.

 

[BrightCandle]

If budget constrained for gaming perspective then I agree putting the $100 into the GPU makes more sense. But if you artificially constrained and looking for value then you need to assess whether 5-30% boasts in performance on half of all games it worth it to you. That money would still be better spent on a GPU, but then if you already have a top end GPU then an i7 is a way to get at more performance.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I'd rather have 2 higher-clocked cores than anything else. It's too bad there isn't an i3 with unlocked multiplier. Imagine, if it had been possible to have clocks in the 5-7 Ghz range

Going wider and fatter is only a necessary/power compromise. Clock speed is the undisputed King.

 

[toyota]

I'd rather have 2 high-clocked cores than anything else. It's too bad there isn't an i3 with unlocked multiplier.

2 cores would be an idiotic choice if wanting to play all modern games smoothly nevermind trying to fully push a higher end gpu.

 

[Magic Carpet]

2 cores would be an idiotic choice if wanting to play all modern games smoothly nevermind trying to fully push a higher end gpu.

Not, if they are clocked high enough

In the current market, certainly, you want a quad. I was just saying try to imagine. One faster core is always more preferable, than two slower ones. Look at AMD

 

[toyota]

Not, if they are clocked high enough

In the current market, certainly, you want a quad. I was just saying try to imagine. One faster core is always more preferable, than two slower ones. Look at AMD

you cant realistically clock 2 cores high enough to make up for not being able run more than 2 threads in games that need it. my cpu is at 4.4 and if I disable 2 cores in some games my frame rates noticeably drop. heck in Crysis 3 if I disable just one core the game becomes too choppy in spots.

 

[Magic Carpet]

you cant realistically clock 2 cores high enough to make up for not being able run more than 2 threads in some games. my cpu is at 4.4 and if I disable 2 cores in some game my frame rates drop. heck in Crysis 3 if I disable just one core the game becomes too choppy in spots.

That's why I said, try to imagine, if you could clock them high enough. It's not possible in the current market with the current tech. But hell, that would be wicked

Two cores at 10 Ghz with Haswell IPC :biggrin:

I know, it's been tried before. I know.

Not only that, but with current software development, going multi-core it would prolly be useless anyway. Hardware without software is useless junk, we all know that.

OP: 4670K is my recommendation for you. Yeah, I am not being original here, I suppose. 4670K is easily the fastest Quad out there, currently. Games like IPC and higher-clocks, you will want to overclock it later

 

[toyota]

That's why I said, try to imagine, if you could clock them high enough. It's not possible in the current market with the current tech. But hell, that would be wicked

Two cores at 10 Ghz with Haswell IPC :biggrin:

I know, it's been tried before. I know.

Not only that, but with current software development, going multi-core it would prolly be useless anyway. Hardware without software is useless junk, we all know that.

OP: 4670K is my recommendation for you. Yeah, I am not being original here, I suppose.

lol I think you been flying a little too high on that carpet of yours...

 

[Magic Carpet]

lol I think you been flying a little too high on that carpet of yours...

Maybe, but I am not the only one. Come aboard, I will give you a ride of your lifetime

 

[toyota]

Maybe, but I am not the only one. Come aboard, I will give you a ride of your lifetime

lol please be a female...

 

[Michael Meio]

If I had this 'client' at the counter, I'd take a closer look:

1. No mention about Overclocking. -check-
2. Multitasking, some Hyper-threading may be required. -check-
3. Likes to try latest generation gaming but doesn't require a 'gaming rig' per se. -check-

As a basic consideration, the third point automatically derives on a dedicated GPU.

My best offer to this client would be:

* H77 MoBo. Will deliver as expected and more. Has room for dual GPU's in some cases.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128548

This is a great MoBo that offers durability, has 4 mem banks for up to 32GB, Crossfire capable.

* Now for the CPU, this may be a bit controversial and many are welcome to disagree with a good backup I expect to read in this discussion.

So, how about these specs:
-3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo)
-4 x 256KB L2 Cache
-8MB L3 Cache
-Quad Core, HT
-69W Thermal Design Power

Of course, these are i7 specs, except for the TDP. But I'm referring to the Xeon E3-1230 V2 -perfectly compatible with the MoBo and non-ECC Mem- which comes without Integrated Graphics.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...irtualParent=1

@ USD 235, this is i5 priced i7 performance.

Your move.

Good Luck!

 

[nyker96]

i5 and 16gb ram.

An i7 is useless for you.

I agree your usage best served with high memory and a i5 K series preferably, overclock it to 4.2+ you should be golden.

 

[Xenon14]

Let's just stop for a minute and acknowledge that the individuals pushing the i5 processor have i5 processors themselves. Now, perhaps their arguments are indeed accurate, but I cannot ignore the conflict of interest of their post as they undoubtedly have a bias toward i5 CPU's. You going with an i5 will help them validate their own i5 ownership. It's laughable; the post before mine suggests that you should get an i5 and to overclock it to a minimum of 4.2ghz to be 'golden' (Surprise! that's the same cpu and frequency running on his own setup).

Having said that, you should definitely get an i7. The more threads you have running in parallel, the more likely you'll benefit from having hyperthreading. It's not about getting any particular application to run fast, it's about not having any bottlenecks as various threads compete with each other for cpu cycles. Based on your description of generally having a lot of tasks running on your PC at any given time, an i7 is a no brainer. Especially since operating systems and software running on them are taking advantage of multithreading more than ever, and that trend will continue going forward.

 

[Phantom9309]

Save the money. Throw that $100 difference into a more powerful GPU. Better bang for the buck.

I like this idea. Or put it towards a good monitor if you don't have one already.

 

[coffeejunkee]

Let's just stop for a minute and acknowledge that the individuals pushing the i5 processor have i5 processors themselves. Now, perhaps their arguments are indeed accurate, but I cannot ignore the conflict of interest of their post as they undoubtedly have a bias toward i5 CPU's. You going with an i5 will help them validate their own i5 ownership. It's laughable; the post before mine suggests that you should get an i5 and to overclock it to a minimum of 4.2ghz to be 'golden' (Surprise! that's the same cpu and frequency running on his own setup).

Having said that, you should definitely get an i7. The more threads you have running in parallel, the more likely you'll benefit from having hyperthreading. It's not about getting any particular application to run fast, it's about not having any bottlenecks as various threads compete with each other for cpu cycles. Based on your description of generally having a lot of tasks running on your PC at any given time, an i7 is a no brainer. Especially since operating systems and software running on them are taking advantage of multithreading more than ever, and that trend will continue going forward.

How do we know you're not an i7 owner pushing an i7? I'll admit I'm an i5 owner and I'm not denying the benefit of HT. But I don't think it's gonna be a really substantial difference in this case. I'd rather put the 100$ to more ram and a bigger ssd. Don't forget i5 4670 is already really fast.

 

[2is]

I'm an i5 and an i7 owner pushing an i7

Now if that extra $100 means you have to skimp on other areas like the GPU or an HDD instead of an SSD then go with the i5. But if that extra $100 simply means you're spending an extra $100 then go with the i7.

 

[Remobz]

I'm an i5 and an i7 owner pushing an i7

Now if that extra $100 means you have to skimp on other areas like the GPU or an HDD instead of an SSD then go with the i5. But if that extra $100 simply means you're spending an extra $100 then go with the i7.

Interesting point. I fall in the category of just spending another $100.

 

[pcunite]

How do we know you're not an i7 owner pushing an i7? I'll admit I'm an i5 owner and I'm not denying the benefit of HT. But I don't think it's gonna be a really substantial difference in this case. I'd rather put the 100$ to more ram and a bigger ssd. Don't forget i5 4670 is already really fast.

Agreed, my i5-3570 seems instant for the things I do. I spent the extra change on a nice SSD.

 

[escrow4]

i7 easily. More grunt will come in handy now and down the track for your usage. Exactly why I put an i5 3570 in my office PC, even though a Celeron would have been sufficient. :biggrin:

 

[Michael Meio]

I agree.. Of course we have put lots of time building our systems, we're proud of them and wish to share our experiences with people who need guidance with perhaps biased advise but never the wrong advise.

All these ideas are either theoretical or proven on each individual's taste and needs. All of them should work.

Still, I'd like to insist on the best move based on multiple setups I've built over the years both mine and for several clients:

1. No doubt embedded graphics are no good for gaming.
-We all know this is a move no one -gaming peeps- really asked for and it's one of the many aspects that in an attempt to help the PC industry, resulted aiding on the kill'. Being another topic, it's important to consider because that extra load within the CPU means more production costs and waste in power. Wouldn't we all rather have welded graphic-less CPU's instead of embedded graphics with crappy TIM?

2. For the majority, Overclocking is still a mith.
-I play with benchmarks too. I OC some stuff like my beloved 2600k sometimes and get a glimpse of the edge with occasional BSOD and Bios reversal but have I seen a real advantage in OC? Indeed. Is it really worth it to invest in water cooling to go beyond the edge? Only on when your wallet reaches the top shelves.

3. Don't you already have an Overclocked CPU?
-The turbo Boost. It's a silly question but who in this world with some knowledge would setup without boost? The only people who do that is because they have encountered a specific and isolated limitation regarding compatibility or some faulty device. I consider it insulting to even present the option, but there it is and of course it has reason to be: I refuse to believe the chipmaking industry is scamming me twice on a single item.

Ok, TLDR, just based on all above, getting the Xeon E3-1230 V2 is a good choice. It's not popular, it has no fan club but it is a setup to consider on this and many other scenarios.