i7-4790K v.s. i7-5820K

[cbn]

"Slight premium"? You're talking at least $100, and could easily balloon to $200. That's another monitor right there. Or an SSD. Or several other choices that you will actually notice, unlike the difference between these two platforms.

The premium will depend on the level of Z97 buyer.

In fact, in some cases i7-5820K and low end X99 are going to be cheaper than high end Z97 and i7-4790K. (re: there are several Z97 boards over $300 and many in the $200 to $300 range)

 

[bigboxes]

The premium will depend on the level of Z97 buyer.

In fact, in some cases i7-5820K and low end X99 are going to be cheaper than high end Z97 and i7-4790K. (re: there are several Z97 boards over $300 and many in the $200 to $300 range)

Seriously? How can you compare low end X99 vs. high end Z97? Really?? I'd want the same comparable board regardless of the platform. If you get a comparable board it will most likely cost +$100 to go X99. Also, DDR4 ram is more expensive. Personally I would have gone 5960 if I was going X99. I'd want all the extra PCI-E lanes. Isn't that the real purpose of X99, that extra bandwidth. And basically if you're gonna unleash the potential of that platform you are going to spend quite a bit more than Z97.

 

[Ramses]

Practice?

Not quite, in practice, my previous three computers were more than enough for anything I do. These things are a hobby but there is a budget, the Asus WS series in particular turned me on this time around and the X99 version was just too much money.
It isn't even so much the GPU ability as the other layout and features that I like anyway. Things like where the fan headers are, how fan/temp management is handled, usb arrangement, bunch of little things. I spent many many hours with a spreadsheet sorting through boards till I found as close to what I wanted as was possible. It just wasn't worth the effort to go through the same bit with the x99 boards for little improvement. Would have been nice to have m.2 x4 but with the 850 Pro I don't see myself missing it anytime soon.
If however the 5820 had the full lane count upgrade the higher end chips got, it might have been enough motivation to spend some more money. Even if I'd never use em all anyway. Principle.

None of this has any specific application to anyone else, it was just the right way to go for me.

 

[Ramses]

Seriously? How can you compare low end X99 vs. high end Z97? Really?? I'd want the same comparable board regardless of the platform. If you get a comparable board it will most likely cost +$100 to go X99. Also, DDR4 ram is more expensive. Personally I would have gone 5960 if I was going X99. I'd want all the extra PCI-E lanes. Isn't that the real purpose of X99, that extra bandwidth. And basically if you're gonna unleash the potential of that platform you are going to spend quite a bit more than Z97.

Yeah it used to make more sense to go with a current or next gen setup, even if it was lower end in it's respective class, back when there was a big difference in performance from gen to gen. These days, not so much. I suspect most of the 5820 folks are either spending quite a bit more money than a mid to high end z97, or they just religiously buy the newest thing they can. None of that is bad or wrong at all, just a persons preference. I would have had to spend another $300 or more to get an equivalent x99 setup, totally not worth it to me. This stuff is all so fast anymore I'm finding it really hard to get excited for one over another. But money is money.

 

[cbn]

Seriously? How can you compare low end X99 vs. high end Z97? Really?? I'd want the same comparable board regardless of the platform. If you get a comparable board it will most likely cost +$100 to go X99. Also, DDR4 ram is more expensive. Personally I would have gone 5960 if I was going X99. I'd want all the extra PCI-E lanes. Isn't that the real purpose of X99, that extra bandwidth. And basically if you're gonna unleash the potential of that platform you are going to spend quite a bit more than Z97.

What meaningful features does a high end Z97 board have that this low end $160 AR X99 board doesn't have?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130796&ignorebbr=1

Also, X99 doesn't need all 40 lanes to run PCIe 3.0 x 8, but a Z97 board will need a PLX chip to do the same thing.

Then there is the issue of the Z97 board needing M.2 ultra (PCIe 3.0 x 4) just to compete with that low end X99.

The X99 also have more SATA 6 Gbps ports, etc

 

[bigboxes]

Yeah it used to make more sense to go with a current or next gen setup, even if it was lower end in it's respective class, back when there was a big difference in performance from gen to gen. These days, not so much. I suspect most of the 5820 folks are either spending quite a bit more money than a mid to high end z97, or they just religiously buy the newest thing they can. None of that is bad or wrong at all, just a persons preference. I would have had to spend another $300 or more to get an equivalent x99 setup, totally not worth it to me. This stuff is all so fast anymore I'm finding it really hard to get excited for one over another. But money is money.

You and I are simpatico.

 

[cbn]

I would have had to spend another $300 or more to get an equivalent x99 setup, totally not worth it to me.

What Z97 board do you own?

 

[Ramses]

What Z97 board do you own?

Asus z97-ws, which was $200 new, $75-$100 less than normal, I got lucky.
4790k, 16gb of 2400 tridentX

 

[Lepton87]

Not quite, in practice, my previous three computers were more than enough for anything I do. These things are a hobby but there is a budget, the Asus WS series in particular turned me on this time around and the X99 version was just too much money.
It isn't even so much the GPU ability as the other layout and features that I like anyway. Things like where the fan headers are, how fan/temp management is handled, usb arrangement, bunch of little things. I spent many many hours with a spreadsheet sorting through boards till I found as close to what I wanted as was possible. It just wasn't worth the effort to go through the same bit with the x99 boards for little improvement. Would have been nice to have m.2 x4 but with the 850 Pro I don't see myself missing it anytime soon.
If however the 5820 had the full lane count upgrade the higher end chips got, it might have been enough motivation to spend some more money. Even if I'd never use em all anyway. Principle.

None of this has any specific application to anyone else, it was just the right way to go for me.

Principle? I don't even want to comment so I don't get an infraction. 40 lanes wouldn't make one iota of a difference in my case and I have a pretty well featured rig. Hell, even if I added an another graphics card and an M.2 SSD it still wouldn't make a difference. I'm not the one to save money if that would entail losing some things that I would notice. If someone really wants connectivity a 40 lanes CPU and a mobo with a PLX bridge is the way to go. Asus X99-WS has PLX bridges.

 

[cbn]

Asus z97-ws, which was $200 new, $75-$100 less than normal, I got lucky.
4790k, 16gb of 2400 tridentX

For someone buying the following ASUS X99 WS board, they are going to get a lot of extras that are not on that Z97 WS board in almost every single category:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132263

For example, that ASUS X99 WS I linked above has seven PCIe x16 slots and a lot more of everything else too.

The type of comparison I was thinking of was a low end X99 (with three or more PCIe x16 slots) vs. Z97 with a PLX chip etc. (So at least the PCIe x 16 slots are equivalent)

 

[Ramses]

Principle? I don't even want to comment so I don't get an infraction. 40 lanes wouldn't make one iota of a difference in my case and I have a pretty well featured rig. Hell, even if I added an another graphics card and an M.2 SSD it still wouldn't make a difference. I'm not the one to save money if that would entail losing some things that I would notice. If someone really wants connectivity 40 lanes CPU and a mobo with a PLX bridge is the way to go. Asus X99-WS has PLX bridges.

Please don't be upset that I chose differently than you did. It's a matter of taste. You have a very nice computer that you should be proud of no matter what anyone else thinks. :thumbsup:

Principle is very much an individual thing in my language/culture. It is akin to saying I prefer the color purple versus the color green.

 

[Ramses]

For someone buying the following ASUS X99 WS board, they are going to get a lot of extras that are not on that Z97 WS board in almost every single category:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132263

For example, that ASUS X99 WS I linked above has seven PCIe x16 slots and a lot more of everything else too.

The type of comparison I was thinking of was a low end X99 (with three or more PCIe x16 slots) vs. Z97 with a PLX chip etc. (So at least the PCIe x 16 slots are equivalent)

Absolutely, and it is a $500 board vs my $200 board. I look forward to the x99 boards at this level being more affordable at some point. My z97-ws was $300 or so when it was new, the price increase is pretty steep but so are the features.

 

[bigboxes]

Asus z97-ws, which was $200 new, $75-$100 less than normal, I got lucky.
4790k, 16gb of 2400 tridentX

Dude, don't listen to them. You totally are on the money. I wish I would have gotten in on that mobo sale. Lucky indeed.

 

[Ramses]

Dude, don't listen to them. You totally are on the money. I wish I would have gotten in on that mobo sale. Lucky indeed.

I took a chance on ebay, I'm normally too chicken to do complicated big money stuff like this from there but it worked out this time. Purely luck lol

 

[cbn]

Absolutely, and it is a $500 board vs my $200 board. I look forward to the x99 boards at this level being more affordable at some point. My z97-ws was $300 or so when it was new, the price increase is pretty steep but so are the features.

It will drop in price, but it is something at level far beyond any Z97.

To me the lower end X99s are a more interesting comparison to higher end Z97. (re: X99 at a basic level is better equipped, but the higher end Z97s need extra add-ons from the OEMs).

 

[Ramses]

It will drop in price, but it is something at level far beyond any Z97.

To me the lower end X99s are a more interesting comparison to higher end Z97. (re: X99 at a basic level is better equipped, but the higher end Z97s need extra add-ons from the OEMs).

I agree. I suspect with CPU performance being as incremental as it is these days, motherboard features are much more of a selling point than they once were. I totally agree that feature wise x99 across the board(no pun intended) is a better deal and as well it should be, but quality of some components and price I believe are still tied to each other. That cheap x99 board you posted for instance, I didn't come up with anything in google (and didn't try super hard) but nothing readily came up as to the quality of it's actual components, it's PCB construction, that sort of thing. I'm sure it's not junk or anything like that but I'm reasonably certain that a higher end z97 will still be built of better parts, even if it has less in the way of features.
If that sort of thing matters to one is a personal choice. I'm a technician above all, so the quality of the guts matter to me possibly more than most.

I'll almost always go with a higher end of last-years model than a lower model of the current tech, unless there is a glaring reason to do otherwise (computers and otherwise). I don't see that there is in the case of z97 vs x99 and their respective CPU's. It's all more than fast enough for me.
You could say it's quality over quantity I guess.

 

[bigboxes]

16gb of 2400 tridentX

Ramses, Newegg says your ram runs at 1.65V. Does yours run at that voltage? My 1600 runs at 1.5V. For the X99 owners, G.Skill has a Ripjaws 4 DDR4 2400 that runs at 1.2V. That's significantly lower. However, the Trident X DDR3 2400 is CL10 vs. CL15 for the DDR4. That's significant also.

 

[Ramses]

1.65 as far as I know, I set the XMP profile and haven't touched it since.
Previously I had cas7 1600 gskill, figured i'd try some faster stuff and see how it was.
Jack-all difference other than benchmarks far as I can tell lol..

From what I'm told cas latency isn't as big a deal as it was with slower ram years ago.
I bought that cas7 stuff before I had read up on ddr3 much, but I don't think I was missing out on much of anything at 1600 anyway, so..

 

[biostud]

Seriously? How can you compare low end X99 vs. high end Z97? Really?? I'd want the same comparable board regardless of the platform. If you get a comparable board it will most likely cost +$100 to go X99. Also, DDR4 ram is more expensive. Personally I would have gone 5960 if I was going X99. I'd want all the extra PCI-E lanes. Isn't that the real purpose of X99, that extra bandwidth. And basically if you're gonna unleash the potential of that platform you are going to spend quite a bit more than Z97.

The main purpose is more cores, but also more pcie lanes. With The "same" z97 and x99 board, you get lots of extra features on the x99 version. So it is only the gb prices of ddr4 that has a significant price premium, if you compare platforms.

 

[mikemcc]

I was able to get some pretty screaming deals around the holidays, so the difference in cost between the 5820 I got and the 4790 I was considering was only about $280 for the chip, the MB, and the memory. Since I typically keep a build for 3 to 3 1/2 years, that's a difference of only a little over $90 a year. That didn't seem like much for what I was getting.

Plus, I didn't want to spend money on DDR3 that I wouldn't be able to use on a future build. Yes, DDR4 is more expensive, but at least I can reuse it going forward. And, after all, even DDR3 is not cheap any longer -- it was dirt cheap when I built my 2500K years ago.

 

[KingFatty]

I'm so close to deciding on this issue. I've already ordered my case and my power supply. But I like that the DDR3 memory specials are really hitting on Newegg recently, like ~$100 for decent 16 GB ram.

I'm just drawn to the idea that it makes more sense for the 4790K build because you save money.

I'm worried that if I do get an X99 motherboard, yeah it will have some extra features, but those will become obsolete almost as fast as the Z97 motherboard features. Meaning, I don't know how much extra lifetime you'll get out of the X99 motherboard features. Just as the Z97 starts feeling like it's lacking in features, so too will the X99?

But my mental calculations are looking around $50 savings on RAM, $50 savings on motherboard, and $20 savings on CPU, for a total of $120 saved by going Z97.

So if I took that savings, couldn't I buy a better SSD drive for the Z97, instead of the fancy new M2 connector on the X99?

 

[Ramses]

FWIW I wouldn't touch an m.2 till they settle down some, both price and performance wise. Or SATA Express takes hold, which may or may not happen lol. Your fears are not unfounded about x99 and coming advances imo, but you could apply them to many upgrade scenarios I guess. Is there anything really in the pipe for the next year or two? USB 3.1 is popping up on boards already, it's all that comes to mind.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I'm so close to deciding on this issue. I've already ordered my case and my power supply. But I like that the DDR3 memory specials are really hitting on Newegg recently, like ~$100 for decent 16 GB ram.

I'm just drawn to the idea that it makes more sense for the 4790K build because you save money.

I'm worried that if I do get an X99 motherboard, yeah it will have some extra features, but those will become obsolete almost as fast as the Z97 motherboard features. Meaning, I don't know how much extra lifetime you'll get out of the X99 motherboard features. Just as the Z97 starts feeling like it's lacking in features, so too will the X99?

But my mental calculations are looking around $50 savings on RAM, $50 savings on motherboard, and $20 savings on CPU, for a total of $120 saved by going Z97.

So if I took that savings, couldn't I buy a better SSD drive for the Z97, instead of the fancy new M2 connector on the X99?

I'm going to mess with your head a bit: that DDR3 you buy now is at the end of its life.

DDR4 will probably be reusable in future upgrades.

 

[Ramses]

DDR4 will probably be reusable in future upgrades.

I guess the gamble is if ddr4 will be cheaper at next upgrade time than it is now by a measurable amount. Sorta. And if ddr3 will be good enough from now till then. Or maybe it's cheap ddr4 or nice ddr3 now and nice ddr3 later?
Good arguments either way really. I don't follow the ram market well enough know guess if ddr4 is going to be way cheaper later, I'd assume some-cheaper but to what degree I don't know.

 

[KingFatty]

I'm going to mess with your head a bit: that DDR3 you buy now is at the end of its life.

DDR4 will probably be reusable in future upgrades.

Good point. Hmmm, I guess I'm banking on just keeping the entire system, so the DDR3 ram will just stay in this to-be-built computer, and I'll just get new ram at the time I next upgrade. I guess I also take some comfort in thinking that current DDR4 ram will also go obsolete somewhat over time, so even if you buy DDR4 now, you will probably sell it and get newer DDR4 ram. Sort of how I still have DDR3-1600 memory sitting in my current computer, but I don't want to re-use that because now there is DDR3-2400 or whatever for decent prices. So I think DDR4 looks promising for being new, but will eventually seem outdated too?