IBM switches to lump sum retirement contribution

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,537
126
Starting next year, IBM's contributions, which generally range from 6% to 10% of pay, will take place Dec. 31. Workers who leave the company before Dec. 15 won't qualify for the match, unless they retire.

IBM's switch is the latest in a series of moves big companies have been making to rein in retirement-plan expenses in recent years—and the financial implications for employees could be significant.

For IBM, the latest move could help save millions of dollars a year in compensation expenses, and keep valued workers who want to ensure they receive the match more tethered to their jobs—at least until the end of a given year.

(snip)

In 2011, it paid $875 million in matching and automatic contributions.

The change "reflects our continuing commitment to invest in our employee 401(k) plans while maintaining business competitiveness in a challenging economic environment," IBM spokesman Douglas Shelton said in a statement.

Financial planners say the lump-sum contributions undermine one big advantage of 401(k) plans: "dollar-cost averaging," in which investors are buying stock and bonds at multiple prices over time, leveling out risk and return. It is a particular concern for older workers who are closer to retirement and have less time to make up for short-term losses, said Jason Chepenik, a certified financial planner and retirement-plan consultant in Winter Park, Fla.

Some IBM employees are unhappy.

"It's a huge change," said Andy Maher, a 59-year-old IBM customer engineer in Victorville, Calif. Mr. Maher, who started at the company in 1976, was an early adopter in the company's retirement offerings, eventually increasing his savings to 12% of pretax pay while raising five children.

Now, he said, he is concerned that "you lose a whole year's worth of interest on that money. And if they lay you off Dec. 1, you don't get anything. It adds a whole other level of unnecessary uncertainty."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323316804578163722900112526.html

I hope this is not something that become more common place. Maybe IBM is a more loyal employer but I can see a lot of future discussions about 'making sure to do the layoffs before Dec 1 so we don't have to pay the match into their 401(k)'. I also think its interesting that they moved to an annual contribution instead of a vesting scheme.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
I hope that trend doesn't continue, it's a cost reduction moved squarely hitting the workers in the pocketbook.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
I think this is an example of one of the biggest downfalls of 401K plans.

I think companies should be required to match throughout the year, or at least give you a pro-rated amount if you leave in the middle of the year.

They should also make vesting periods illegal.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323316804578163722900112526.html

I hope this is not something that become more common place. Maybe IBM is a more loyal employer but I can see a lot of future discussions about 'making sure to do the layoffs before Dec 1 so we don't have to pay the match into their 401(k)'. I also think its interesting that they moved to an annual contribution instead of a vesting scheme.

As someone who used to work for IBM.

BAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Pushed from pensions to 401k style plans with employer contributions to 401k style plans with no employer contributions. Maybe next, they can pass all of the plan costs on directly to the employee as well. One of the "benefits" of global wage arbitrage. Yay free fucking trade.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
401k is a crock in the first place. A devised plan to transfer a companies loss to the employee. Market goes south, guess who gets hit.
Anything long term profit that depends on the market is nothing more than wishful gambling.
Even old Al Capone preferred to deal in bootlegged spirits rather than play the stock market scam. Something he knew was rigged from the start. Something a mob criminal like himself knew he had no chance at winning in the end.
Most retirement plans heavily rely on the 401k, plus SS benefits.
Wonder why so many politicians want to gut SS while preferring the stock market sourced 401k? Business. Wall street. You know... those that own and operate your senator and congress persons.
Well... You'll find out why, the hard way, come one day.
The 401k looks great on paper. So does that lotto ticket jackpot figure.
401k plans were devised to scam the employees retirement funds.
Replacing the guarantees of life pensions, as well as company pensions protected by the unions. Granting the employee a fair and honest stake in that companies profits.
Walmart, the perfect example.
The company rakes in multi-billions while the employee reaps nothing on their part other than a poverty wage.
People are fools. They let this happen. Over and over. Every single day. It's probably going on in your state right now. Or already has. Or soon will be.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
401k is a crock in the first place. A devised plan to transfer a companies loss to the employee. Market goes south, guess who gets hit.
Anything long term profit that depends on the market is nothing more than wishful gambling.
Even old Al Capone preferred to deal in bootlegged spirits rather than play the stock market scam. Something he knew was rigged from the start. Something a mob criminal like himself knew he had no chance at winning in the end.
Most retirement plans heavily rely on the 401k, plus SS benefits.
Wonder why so many politicians want to gut SS while preferring the stock market sourced 401k? Business. Wall street. You know... those that own and operate your senator and congress persons.
Well... You'll find out why, the hard way, come one day.
The 401k looks great on paper. So does that lotto ticket jackpot figure.
401k plans were devised to scam the employees retirement funds.
Replacing the guarantees of life pensions, as well as company pensions protected by the unions. Granting the employee a fair and honest stake in that companies profits.
Walmart, the perfect example.
The company rakes in multi-billions while the employee reaps nothing on their part other than a poverty wage.
People are fools. They let this happen. Over and over. Every single day. It's probably going on in your state right now. Or already has. Or soon will be.

Except

(1) Pensions don't make much sense if you only work for a company for a few years.

(2) Pensions don't make sense if the company goes bankrupt*. Possibly because of the pensions.

*unless of course you have the government (ie taxpayers) guarantee your pension.

EDIT: Essentially pensions change your retirement risk from being tied to the success of one company to being tied too many. How is this a bad thing?
 

jstern01

Senior member
Mar 25, 2010
532
0
71
401K plans were not intended for retirement savings for middle income households.

Brief history of 401K.

The 401(k) plan--named for a section of the Internal Revenue Code--came about thanks to a 1978 congressional provision intended to offer taxpayers breaks on deferred income. In 1980, while trying to streamline a client's profit-sharing plan, benefits consultant Ted Benna realized that the code could be used to create an easy, tax-friendly vehicle for employees to save for retirement. The client passed, but the idea took off: there are now more than 65 million 401(k) accounts, which allow participants to invest in stocks and bonds, often with matching funds from employers--all at a lower cost than the pension plans that 401(k)s replaced. The accounts helped spark a financial-industry boom, funneling billions from under retirement savers' mattresses into mutual funds and the stock market.

The client was Kodak, and it was for their executives because of the law at that time did not allow for executive pensions, unless it was offered to their employees. This section allow for them to fund their executives retirement without having to incur the cost of funding a pension.
 

tommo123

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2005
2,617
48
91
^ i agree with phokus. if IBM get involved at your work place - get the hell out!
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
Yeah, let me put it this way, i have never seen flyers advocating for everyone to join the Union at a tech/white collar work place before EXCEPT IBM. IBM is notorious for treating their workers like dogshit. I saw more and more of those flyers as IBM kept outsourcing more and more jobs.

IBM's reputation from the 50's through the 80's never seems to die and everyone seems to have this ridiculous high opinion about that company.

IBM is the walmart of the tech industry.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I hope that trend doesn't continue, it's a cost reduction moved squarely hitting the workers in the pocketbook.

Of course. Whatever money the Job Creators! can beat out of workers is just good for business, somewhere, somehow, and it'll all trickle back down, someday, maybe. Honest. Wait for it...
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
This is more about layoffs IMO. I know someone that works at IBM and they said I guess we know when the next round of layoffs will be.
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,775
0
76
401k is a crock in the first place. A devised plan to transfer a companies loss to the employee. Market goes south, guess who gets hit.
Anything long term profit that depends on the market is nothing more than wishful gambling.
Even old Al Capone preferred to deal in bootlegged spirits rather than play the stock market scam. Something he knew was rigged from the start. Something a mob criminal like himself knew he had no chance at winning in the end.
Most retirement plans heavily rely on the 401k, plus SS benefits.
Wonder why so many politicians want to gut SS while preferring the stock market sourced 401k? Business. Wall street. You know... those that own and operate your senator and congress persons.
Well... You'll find out why, the hard way, come one day.
The 401k looks great on paper. So does that lotto ticket jackpot figure.
401k plans were devised to scam the employees retirement funds.
Replacing the guarantees of life pensions, as well as company pensions protected by the unions. Granting the employee a fair and honest stake in that companies profits.
Walmart, the perfect example.
The company rakes in multi-billions while the employee reaps nothing on their part other than a poverty wage.
People are fools. They let this happen. Over and over. Every single day. It's probably going on in your state right now. Or already has. Or soon will be.

I am shocked so few people know this, and even fewer accept the obviousness of it's truth.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Well if you work all year this could be good. However if the company lays a lot of new people off over Christmas, then I guess they get no retirement money that year. That would just suck. I worked for a factrory for a while and they layed us off every winter. If you get no retirement money all year, that is almost like slavery. I wonder how this fits in with Obammacare???
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
I smell future lawsuits and everyone who decides to quit IBM leaving in January.

I think that's the whole point, they want to save money by not having to pay out for anyone who leaves (on their own accord or because of a layoff or firing). Seems like a jerk move, it's definitely something I'd consider as a big "con" if I was considering a job working with IBM.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
Why all the hate for IBM? So what if Hitler gave IBM a medal? It was a medal for all the hard work they did.
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
They are? I've never heard that, and they're on several different "top employer" or "ideal employer" lists.....

For example: http://www.universumglobal.com/IDEAL-Employer-Rankings/The-National-Editions/American-Student-Survey

If they're so horrible, what prevents the workers from going to some other place that's not as horrible?


The came in 45th per your link. Thats not saying much when you see how big they are.

I know several people that work/worked for IBM. Very few had anything good to say.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
The came in 45th per your link. Thats not saying much when you see how big they are.

I know several people that work/worked for IBM. Very few had anything good to say.

I work for them. It greatly depends on where within IBM you work. I love my job, and am compensated nicely. My managers have always gone to bat for me and respected my personal versus work life. IBM is a good if not great company to work for.

As for this 401k thing... Very disappointing. While losing the dollar cost averaging is troublesome, the aspect of losing a year of match because of a layoff is very, very shitty.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
They are? I've never heard that, and they're on several different "top employer" or "ideal employer" lists.....

For example: http://www.universumglobal.com/IDEAL-Employer-Rankings/The-National-Editions/American-Student-Survey

If they're so horrible, what prevents the workers from going to some other place that's not as horrible?

Because the one thing they're good at is catering to working mothers (there's some magazine called 'working mothers magazine' or something and they're ranked #1 almost every year). Many jobs are work at home telecommute type jobs with flextime. So if that's important to you, you'll give a lot of concessions in terms of benefits/pay because most companies don't give that out. If you work in an office for IBM like i did, you didn't get that benefit and i don't know a single person working there still (or left) that still thinks IBM is a good place to work for.

IBM is notorious for fucking over their workers over pay/benefits, finding every way to outsource, finding every dirty trick to hire H1-B's over Americans, etc.
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
7,852
6
81
I'm just waiting for them to do a mass layoff on Dec 28th now. After all, it's best to fire workers on a Friday.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,001
113
106
This is to be expected. If companies continue this race to the bottom, they won't be offering retirement plans at all. Pensions are the way to go for workers. Many in my generation and future generations will be SOL in terms of retirement options.
 
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