iBook LCD Woes

[Tangman]

I recently sent my 14" G4 933 Mhz iBook for repair because bright
spots on the LCD has appeared over time. Initially it was one spot,
and then gradually increased in size and numbers over 5 months or
so. I had purchased AppleCare for the iBook and so did not send the
unit in until the spots finally became annoying enough. Today, I
receive from the Apple repair depot, with a message that the
technician has determined that the spots were a result of accidental
damage, and a replacement of the LCD would cost $759?! Needless to
say, I was more than a little shocked at this conclusion, because 1)
the spots appeared over time, and if it were due to damage, it would
not take 5 months to appear, and 2) if I had babied my unit any
more, I'd be singing it to sleep -- the unit is in ABSOLUTELY
prestine condition, no scuff marks, no scratches, not even oily
stain marks at the wrist rests.
After the shocking news, I was then transferred to escalated
customer support, where I tried to explained to the support rep
points 1 & 2. I also brought up that this was a replacement unit to
another that I had purchased on Amazon.com, but had returned because
the spots were more serious than this unit. Finally, I mentioned
that does not appear to be an isolated insident, as a quick search
on Google for "Bright spot LCD ibook g4" yields 4 hits on the first
page regarding users reporting such this issue on the 14" iBook.
The customer rep. retorted by saying 1) there are no
reported/official instances of such issues on this unit (she put me
on hold twice, once to speak to engineering, and once to speak to
production), and 2) the technician did not find warped hinges, or
external signs that the LCD might be poorly mounted. She then
proposed that the best option for me would be to live with the
bright spots since the repair is so costly. She also suggested that
I could write to Corporate headquarters but it is unlikely to change
the outcome of the diagnosis.
Out of frustration, I went down to the local Apple to store to the
genius bar, where the genius mentioned he has heard of a similar
issue from another ibook.
Now comes the magic questions. 1) How I can I get Apple to do this
repair? I'm 100% certain that the bright spots are not due to any sort
of accidental damage. 2) Does anyone have a similar experience? 3) For
the Apple techs out there, have you heard of such an issue appearing on
an iBook?

Responses are appreciated, and thanks for reading.

PS. FYI, the iBook went to Tennesse for repair, and the customer rep I
was speaking with was in Austin, Texas.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Did you ever sign up with the Apple Discussions board? The people their are very helpful and I am sure they can help you out. Discussions board. If you want to see if others are having the issue, you can just look around the board and see if they found a solution to the problem.

Good Luck!

 

[Tangman]

Thanks Lizzy -- I will have to check this out.

 

[KeithP]

This sounds similar to a problem I had on my PowerBook. Does this look like your problem? If so you will find posts about it in the PowerBook section as well.

As Thin Lizzy said, definitely search Apple's support forum for PowerBooks and iBooks. I bet you will find others with the same problem.

-Keith

 

[thirdlegstump]

Ah crap. I had a 17" G4 Powerbook that exhibited the same problems but Apple told me it was due to my abusive use and that it would cost over $800 to repair it even if I had Applecare coverage. What a load of BS. I said screw it and bought a used LCD on ebay for $250.

 

[Gurck]

Have you tried thinking different?

 

[thirdlegstump]

When you work with a Mac, you already think different.

 

[Pandaren]

Sue Apple's lazy @ss in a class action if you are pissed off enough.

I recall that recently Apple had a problem with a faulty design in the iBook G3. Apple insisted there was no problem, but after being faced with a class action lawsuit, gave in.

Apple first denied the problem to many users, as you can read below:

http://forums.macrumors.com/sh...?s=&threadid=57962

And then fessed up when it became obvious there was a fatal flaw in the system board design.

http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/

 

[Dug]

Have them prove how the bright spots were from damage.
THEY have to prove it. Otherwise its covered.

Get a technical explanation in writing, of exactely how damage done by you, could cause this problem.

And then get a written explanation of how they determined this couldn't be a defect in the product.

 

[Tangman]

Thanks for all the posts. I've also come across a thread on the Apple forums describing this same problem on the same model machine, found here. Demanding an explanating in writing is a good idea -- I will certainly bring that up when I give them a call Monday.

I just wanted to thank everyone again -- your support is very well appreciated. And if anyone else has any ideas...please feel free to chime in.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Hi Tangman,

I read in some of the discussions threads, people would constantly hassle Apple with the problems they have with their product, and Apple eventually gives in. I know they have heard of this problem, but they are just being idiots. If you constantly hassle them, I can probably bet they will give in and will have to help you. They should not be disregarding your complaint. I think the explanation in writing is also a good idea too.

Good Luck! Let us know how everything goes!

 

[magomago]

Not to troll , but people always rage about the Apple Care program and how great it is....but the whole ibook thing a while back, ipod battery failure, and now stuff like this makes me really wonder if its just "Talk" or not~ I mean you guys are saying if you nag them long enough they give in- is that really "apple" quality?

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: magomago
Not to troll , but people always rage about the Apple Care program and how great it is....but the whole ibook thing a while back, ipod battery failure, and now stuff like this makes me really wonder if its just "Talk" or not~ I mean you guys are saying if you nag them long enough they give in- is that really "apple" quality?

Usually depends on the person you talk to. Seems to me a lot of them are dumbasses. But in his situation, I would have to say he should keep nagging them, if thats what it takes for the people at Apple Care to get off their asses and do their jobs!

 

[halfadder]

As with any company, if you don't get satisfaction with the first person you talk to, demand to talk to their superior. If that fails, hang up and call their corporate headquarters number and ask to speak with customer relations. White spots on a notebook display is a well known problem and is not the result of misuse.

 

[Tangman]

I've been perusing through the Apple thread that I had posted earlier from their discussion forums, and found this interesting experience:

<snip>

Apple: You damaged it.

Me: I didn't damage it. Others have had the exact problem.

Apple: It's not a known issue.

Me: So you haven't issued a technical paper or alert, or whatever corporate lingo you use, but you are aware of the issue, it's been discussed at length on apple.com's user boards, you have fixed it for others, and you will fix it for me. I'll do whatever I need to do to see that you will. And I'll win.

10 minutes on hold.

Apple: The tech at the Apple Store confirms that he examined the case and didn't see any signs of external abuse. I can't authorize the repair, but I can put you through to our Customer Relations department.

Me: 5 minute rant about having to start from the beginning with another employee who has no authority, so you might as well cut to the chase and just get a manager--or someone from the legal department--on the line.

15 minute hold.

Apple (same dispatch person): I discussed it with Public Relations and while this is not a "known issue" they have authorized a one time exception, and we'll go ahead and replace the screen.

My summation: Clearly, Apple is aware of the problem. It is most likely limited to a number of machines from a particular production run, so they don't need to recall the entire model. They have made a business decision not to issue an alert, making this a "known issue" and inviting service calls, but to deal with it on a case by case basis, leading with the "you damaged it" line, sending who knows how many customers home to live with screen flaws (and saving thousands of dollars), and capitulating to the occasional "squeaky wheel", thus avoiding negative publicity.

Postscript: After ten days, I still don't have the computer back. On the phone today they told me they are waiting for a drive cable. They don't know when it'll come in. This is, in my opinion, substandard and unprofessional service.

</snip>

This type of behavior is just begging for a class action suit -- any consumer law lawyers here to put in two cents??

 

[halfadder]

It doesn't sound like enough to jusify a class action lawsuit. There are rumors that Apple is low on parts in their repair centers and factories, so repairs and new product orders are taking much longer than normal right now. Also the "case by case" basis, while a bunch of BS, is not illegal as far as I know.

The biggest problem with a class action lawsuit is that when it is all said and done, the company is punished by spending $millions on lawyers, but the all the consumers get are further inflated prices and maybe an extra 6 months of warranty, a $50 coupon, or a check in the mail for $6.

I have seen these sort of issues when dealing with HP and their LaserJet printers and ScanJet scanners. One day you can call them about a motor problem in a scanner and they'll blame it on you!! Call them a month later about a problem with the lamp on another scanner and they treat you like royality FedExing you a brand new scanner. Same thing with the printers. One time they'll deliver a replacement pinter and a carton of free paper for the trouble, and the next time they'll call you a theif and a lier.

I'd like to know what goes on behind the scenes at these tech support centers. Are the supervisiors bipolar? Do their attitudes refelect some sort of monthly limit / quota?

 

[Tangman]

I've tallied the number of users experiencing this problem on this model based on the Apple, AppleNova, and MacFixit discusssion forums, and the total number is 57 distinct users. Hardly sounds like an isolated incident to me. I am going to give apple a call Monday, and will update the thread.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

I wonder if Apple will be open tomorrow because of Martin Luther King day. I hope you get this problem resolved.

 

[Tangman]

Update: After two more hours on the phone and having spoken with 2 supervisors, they agreed to cover this particular case as a "one-time" exception. I had mentioned that a previous unit, which I promptly exchanged for the current unit, had come with the white spots (I had to provide the serial number for that unit). The supervisor who ultimately authorized this was obnoxious, noting on several occasions that I really ought to watch how I treat my iBook in the future.

I'm going to keep my fingers crossed on the repair, as several other users have reported the recurrance of the white spots, even after having battled through customer support to get the LCD replaced. I think I will also forward my case, as well as everything I've found, over to Corporate to see if they will recognize the defects and to not be such a**holes when other users call in for repair. I can't imagine how many users they've shunned away after simply telling them that they were responsible for damaging the LCD and had to live with a manufacturing defect (either through poor LCD, or poor enclosure design that leads to propensity for residual stresses).

Thanks all, I will keep the thread posted with updates as they occur.

 

[Chadder007]

Thats Apple support for you. Ive been hearing of more and more cases like this. That is definately BS about it being abused. That kind of problem does NOT occur due to abuse. It is a flaw in their design.

 

[Chadder007]

Also take note that there is a class action lawsuit building up on Apple for the LCD issues. Ill look it up when I get home.

 

[Tangman]

Chadder -- that would be very helpful -- would appreciate if you can get a hold and post this info.

 

[Chadder007]

Yeah I started reading up on Apple once I got interested in the MacMini......now im not so sure about purchasing one because of Apples PR problem and quality issues that it seems to have.

 

[addragyn]

Be persistent and ask for their boss.

Be polite, be firm.

This applies to support for any corporation.


I've had nothing but fantastic support from Apple. I bought a used G5 that was damaged by UPS(case was bent). Local Apple Store plopped it into a new one for me. Free. Like most things in life if comes down to you and the other person. Hang up and call support again if you need to get another person.

Why didn't you ask the Genius @ the Apple Store to send it in?


Sounds like nobody in this thread had a problem getting their screen fixed.
http://discussions.info.apple....uesa2qmKTh.2@.599c8fe7
Stop being a jerk to the CS reps!

Wait. I see you posted in that thread and got it fixed. :thumbsup:

 

[Tangman]

Yeah, pretty much any break that comes in between the CS reps reading lines from a script, I would ask for a super. I guess what really gets me is that while they finally agreed to issue a one-time exception, they still refused to acknowledge the possibility of a defect.

I did get a chance to look over posts in that thread (did in fact post there myself), and only maybe half the users got their screens replaced after persistance, although each time, it was through a "one-time exception," with no admission that there's any faults with the machine.

The issue lies in how they are choosing to deal with the problem. Apple sells about 1,000,000 ibooks a year (@ ~250,000 per quarter) -- imagine that defect exists that affected a batch of 5000 machines. That's a pretty phenomenal failure rate at 0.5% -- certainly not a high enough percentage to issue a recall. In this particular case, the LCD problem isn't criticial to running the machine itself, so let's say that only 25% of the users call this in (1250 users). After being told that the damage is user-induced, only 25% percent of the users persist and post to discussion forums and bbs's (312 users). In the end, by employing denial, Apples only has to repair 312 machines out of 5000 for possible defects. If half of the initial 5000 (2500) purchased the AppleCare package like I have, Apple certainly would have made a killing but simply putting this in practice.

I had mentioned to the supervisors that I was speaking with that there are many other users who have experienced this problem, yet not one of them had addressed this (it was as if they chose not to hear that part of the conversation). For what it was worth, they were very nice in saying what they had to say, but what they had to say was at best, obnoxious. This behavior leads me to believe that they were instructed to deny repairs unless the customer was persistant enough. The numbers here are purely hypothetical, but seems within the reasonable realm to me.

I opted not to have the repair done through the Store because the genius had advised that it would be quicker to get an Applecare box, which is shipped via Next day, rather than wait for a formal assessment at the store before being sent to the service depot. I also got verbal assurance from the reps who sent me the box that the spots would be repair easily. There was no reason for me to doubt what either of them were telling me, so I sent it in myself.