ICD 7 Test Results

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petrusbroder

Elite Member
Nov 28, 2004
13,347
1,154
126
Very interesting: One of my laptops shuts down due to overheating regularly. OTOH: the laptop (does DPAD) is 11 years old ...

I'll take it apart and try to fix it ... it would be fun to get it going properly again.
 

Rudy Toody

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2006
4,267
421
126
Lots of notebook people on the re-paste track these days.

From my post at notebookreview

In any event below chart is not final as all results are lumped together, GPU/CPU will be broken out on final.

What is interesting is I would categorize any improvements 10 C and over as catastrophic failure of the stock compound. I count 12 out of 42 roughly 25%

That's a real high number vs the standard PC which are more like 1-2%.

This would translate to early component failure, reduced life expectancy, increased returns/costs of owning a laptop etc.

Opportunity is knocking! Create an IC Diamond thermal pad for laptop OEM's to use to improve their products!
 
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ICD7

Member
Feb 29, 2008
147
1
71
Very interesting: One of my laptops shuts down due to overheating regularly. OTOH: the laptop (does DPAD) is 11 years old ...

I'll take it apart and try to fix it ... it would be fun to get it going properly again.

shipping a lot of paste to the notebook guys - what surprises me is how much they charge for a paste install $40- $60 on an install and the highest I have seen is $129.00 mostly labor I think.

lol, maybe I am not charging enough
 

ICD7

Member
Feb 29, 2008
147
1
71
Opportunity is knocking! Create an IC Diamond thermal pad for laptop OEM's to use to improve their products!

it's so thick people replace the GPU pad with IC Diamond on laptops, been doing that for a year and half now with no problems.

Tried doing a single application where you sandwich the compound between two pieces low surface tension materials, problem was we could not get to release as it separated into pieces sticking everywhere but where it was supposed to. Kind of at odds with paste theory as thermal compounds in order to be effective need a low contact resistance (sticky) to be effective.

Tried a few formulations but gave up to focus on other priority items
 

Rudy Toody

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2006
4,267
421
126
Take one application amount and cover with a brittle crust, like an M & M.

Place the pill on the center of the chip, mount the heat sink, and do the 10-second buzz.

The crust should be something that breaks down under heat (and the vibration) into tiny particles that don't get in the way.

LoL. I know! Easy for me to say!
 

ICD7

Member
Feb 29, 2008
147
1
71
Take one application amount and cover with a brittle crust, like an M & M.

Place the pill on the center of the chip, mount the heat sink, and do the 10-second buzz.

The crust should be something that breaks down under heat (and the vibration) into tiny particles that don't get in the way.

LoL. I know! Easy for me to say!

Great Idea! Instead of syringes I can sell little packs of Mentos or Tic Tac's! Candy manufacturer probably could provide good input on how to do it.

Follow up for you Rudy on the torque project one user took it up on his own and it worked well.

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m...igh=ic+diamond
 

Rudy Toody

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2006
4,267
421
126
Great Idea! Instead of syringes I can sell little packs of Mentos or Tic Tac's! Candy manufacturer probably could provide good input on how to do it.

Follow up for you Rudy on the torque project one user took it up on his own and it worked well.

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m...igh=ic+diamond

Thanks for the follow-up. He did a great job. It would be nice to see the same info with a CPU.

Regarding the M & M idea: Make the shell out of something clear and shiny and shape it like a small diamond. Package them in a small bag with a draw-string like the diamond merchants use. Or the folded paper like they also use.
 
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ICD7

Member
Feb 29, 2008
147
1
71
spending most of my time marketing and automating syringe filling so fun projects are sidelined. probably have to consult with a pastry chef on that one.

latest total results from around 20 forums - doing one in the UK now and have another one in Germany starting Tuesday hope to hit a 1000 by the end of the summer.

 

ICD7

Member
Feb 29, 2008
147
1
71
We have been doing a IC Diamond Reliability Survey over at Notebook Review with some interesting results, although only halfway through the survey a major factor in long term reliability relates to Contact and Pressure as we went through the process here with C/P and performance same applies to long term use.

When you have full contact with thermal and mechanical loads in sync with each other fully/evenly distributed across the entire processor and would be a likely canidate for long term use.






Just some quick notes

Looking at the data to date it looks to be trending that if you hit a year with no change you are probably clear for extended 1.5- 2- 3 year use. A temp rise above +5C within the first year is a pretty good indicator that you will hit + 20C by year 2.

A kind of a go- no go indicator, those that hit in the 20C range I would call a failure and would repaste and while you have the system apart consider lapping the sink or some mod as TanWare's to improve contact. To note I have a couple of retailers that have agreed to test market the Contact and Pressure indicating film and should retail around $5-$8. Note that we are not selling the product and will not profit from it, we are only promoting it's general use for end users as a tool for improving performance/reliability

I am assuming a 5C +/- error on these tests as most are sloppy about reporting ambients.

As noted in my previous post there does not appear to be any correlation yet as to higher initial temps leading to a failure. Technos started with an initial temp of 58 C and at close to the one year mark ended up 19.25 C while Karamazovmm whose initial temp was 95C ended the year at 90C basically unchanged. There are other examples but this happens to be one of the more extreme. This was a suprise to me as typically notebooks runan average of 15C higher than the overclocked systems so I was expecting some indication in that direction at this point perhaps needs more time.

Applied thermal compound is simple stuff as things go, two mating surfaces with some goop in between and there are not too many avenues to explore to explain a difference in results other than amount of compound applied (we assume everbody gets this one right) Then the contact and pressure between the two joining surfaces.

As we discovered with the C/P testing the weak point in this simple setup is in the contact and is a reasonble cause for good result or bad result or something in between.

Note below yknyong1 contact area being worst case most of the heat transfer would be in the corner/edge area, a significat heat concentration more like a soldering Iron this edge corner/area would be the part of the joint to fail first and as the remaing paste is lightly contacted would then run at higher temps baking out initially then delaminating with further thermal cycling. This kind of contact is a likely canidate for early failure

The following BlazeSempai example at the other end is full contact with thermal and mechanical loads in sync with each other fully/evenly distributed across the entire processor and would be a likely canidate for long term use.

This is as simple as it gets.


yknyong1- Apple Macbook Air13 i5



BlazeSempai p 8700

 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,566
4,481
75
This reminds me, forum moderator Idontcare did [thread=2285595]testing of several TIMs[/thread] on his de-lidded 3570k. His summary results were:



But because a de-lidded CPU can "pump out" the TIM, he suggested that only ICD and Liquid Ultra (which is conductive) were suitable for long-term use.
 

ICD7

Member
Feb 29, 2008
147
1
71
This reminds me, forum moderator Idontcare did [thread=2285595]testing of several TIMs[/thread] on his de-lidded 3570k. His summary results were:



But because a de-lidded CPU can "pump out" the TIM, he suggested that only ICD and Liquid Ultra (which is conductive) were suitable for long-term use.

I have been watching the thread with some interest, excellent! I think his testing is very accurate I can see from the paste impression that he has good contact as in the second test above full contact but a little light on pressure probably between 30 and 40 psi from the grease thickness but I am not sure what he could about it as really torquing down to +50 PSI would run the risk of cracking the die with any misalignment. At +50 PSI you would see a slight see through glaze on the CPU, the thickness of it implies the lighter loading

The really creamy or watery greases have an advantage at the lower pressure loading's as they reach more of their optimum bond line thickness (BLT) at lower pressures especially the LM - no particles to compress, you could probably hit the max BLT with 10 PSI and you would see a flat line straight to 100 PSI vs the ICD curve below the pressure curve for LM,s is not like any other so advantage LM in this application. They are not great for filling gaps and often leave voids on an IHS impacting performance.

In any event a nice job, nice numbers on his part.


 

Assimilator1

Elite Member
Nov 4, 1999
24,151
516
126
Thx for the updates

Still got ICD7 in my 2 rigs , can't remember when it was applied now :$, possibly the original application on my Q6600.
 

ICD7

Member
Feb 29, 2008
147
1
71
Thx for the updates

Still got ICD7 in my 2 rigs , can't remember when it was applied now :$, possibly the original application on my Q6600.

Assimilator1, Rudy Toody - good to see you guys still kicking.

so application must be 4 going on 5 years since the thread started? I like the reliability feed back, good stuff.

In any event this was pretty interesting- go to 4.08 min. on the video and freeze it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2zetIRCILVE

It is pretty easy to correlate paste impressions to what you see in the contact and pressure indicating film. Basically he only has contact on approx 50% of the chip with the higher heat load on the reduced area combined with higher pressure pumped the compound to the edges of the contact area. Repaste with IC Diamond netted a 30C drop at idle

Now look at around the six min. mark on the GPU he has full contact but is light on the pressure indicated by the compound being so thick, with good pressure it would be a light glaze and in any event temps were fine on the GPU at idle.
 
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