You are asking the wrong questions. Does it help our welfare state to have so many people not directly contributing due to working under the radar but taking? Does it help our low end workers that have to compete with people under the radar who often times will work for less than min wage?
Oh I'm sure they're the wrong questions, asking them makes allowing so many illegals in mighty painful for the Politicians and those pro-Open Border. Tell me, how does it help an established society with established wages and established standards of living to have 3rd worlders come in, live 10 to a house, put large strains on the social services (that their tax revenues will
never pay for), all the while directly competing with the lower and lower-middle working classes? Does it help the high school student who graduated with a D average and is making $15 an hour doing flooring, the market rate, when a flood of your legal (now illegal but legal under your dream) come in and saturate the market with low wage opportunity? I mean, I know it helps the owner employing these new legals, he gets to charge the same and pocket more. I know it
might (and I stress might) help the customer, as in theory, they're going to get more for less (unless the owner just pockets the difference, which is common)...and then there's the re-work/long term quality that they won't see initially. But, for all the already US citizens before these new legals come in, the ones who will now go from $15 an hour to $9 an hour to compete, or who will just loose their jobs, you know, the ones that can't afford to, exactly what happens to them? Sorry, I must have missed it,
how is allowing tens of millions of competition for them into the US going to benefit them again? Please don't say 'Oh, they can retrain'. Guess what - they can't/won't. They're a D average high school grad, those don't retrain, they go on unemployment and suck up social services, and so do the 2-4 kids they have.
It isn't a matter of allowing millions in to compete. It is a matter of allowing millions in and having them compete on the same playing field against legal citizens.
Stop. The people here who are working low to low-middle paying jobs
don't need that competition. You know, our
existing barely making it people. Other countries sob stories are
those countries problems. Exactly
why are you heaping more difficulty on top of our US citizen lower wage earners? Please don't tell me because it gives other US citizens cheaper prices, and/or, these other non-US citizens 'need a chance'.
If these people had a realistic path to citizenship they would go legitimate. That would put them on the grid. That would have them paying reliable taxes to help pay for the welfare state you so want to protect.
Once on the grid immigrants are a net positive to the host country.
Of course they'd go legit, haha.
That's not the US problem, that's theirs for coming here illegally. As for 'net positive', WTF are you smoking man? Have you lost your mind completely? Lets do the math: Minimum wage dad and mom, both now legal, with 2 kids. That will be a complete Fed tax return of...everything. State as well.
Plus, state sponsored healthcare.
Plus, because kids, some kind of food handout.
Plus, because kids, housing assistance.
Plus, because kids, they are both in school. 8 years gradeschool, $13k
per year per kid. Another 4 years high school, last I looked 2 years ago,
$16k per kid per year. Then, since they're legal, they will themselves be entitled to social security and Medicare. Can you break it down for me exactly where they're net positive? Please again, don't tell me it's because they're providing less cost to customer.
This is so funny. You want the wall, just not around your house. I see.
No actually I want it on our southern border, and, as I already said, not a wall (at least not in all areas).
So do you believe we who want immigration reform want to open our house up to strangers? Your entire argument is so effing silly. But the really silly part is you cant see how my wall example and your open up our house examples are the same thing.
No actually they're not the same thing at all. Your heart bleeds for these people, fine. Bleed at home. Enjoy the benefits of them living on top of you, of you paying for them. Heck, it's 'a net positive' for you, amirite? I mean, look, they'll do the dishes sometimes, maybe clean once a while, and, you can accountant account for everyone in your household being bilingual (well, no need for that if we didn't allow tens of millions in, but hey, why be practical about it). Are you now saying you don't want to support your familia? I get this sense you want them here, you want the "cheap" lawncare, the "cheap" vending, but you don't want to actually
live with the problems these tens of millions bring to others. Err...
why is that? You're not xenophobic are you? If having them here is good, then having them in your own house directly contributing to you, and you to them, would be even better, would it not?
Of course lethal. Because we all know when govts build walls and enforce a lethal form of border control. Nothing but good things happen from that. /facepalm
Well, when governments build walls - real or virtual - to keep invaders out (lethal or otherwise), and
let their own population go where they want, I'm not seeing a problem from their own populations perspective. Sorry, exactly how would that affect a US citizen again?