So you missed the thread about the illegal immigrant in California who went to court to argue for his right to practice law in California?
I think you have a bloated idea of what it is like to be an illegal immigrant in this country. It isn't some picnic. The only stories you hear about are the fringe about an illegal showing up to court and being released.
There is a reason why they go underground. If they felt as free as you claim they wouldn't hide.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/02/states-tuition-immigrants-undocumented_n_4713663.html15 States Now Grant In-State Tuition To Undocumented Immigrants
and your exaggerating as to how hard it is.
If its so hard and scary then why do so many continue coming?
Maybe because its not that hard. Maybe its because we have a president that is holding an amnesty carrot and then want to get in now before they might have to fill out a form, and possibly wait to get in.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/02/states-tuition-immigrants-undocumented_n_4713663.html
Yeah America is really so hard on illegal immigrants D:
Oh the humanity. They get to pay the same tuition rates as a regular citizen. Of course if I had my way. They would had already become a citizen or on the path to citizenship. The kid was in the country since he was 6 and wants to get an education at Rutgers. In your world he should be rounded up and tossed back to some other country? What a fine waste of resources.
In 2010, more than a third of the immigrants from Southern Europe were university graduates. They are making significant contributions to the good state of our economy... more than 40 percent of Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants between the ages of 30 and 64 held university degrees.
...the facts would seem to disagree with Biden's thoughts about Germany. It is an increasingly popular destination for immigrants, suggesting it has an open immigration policy.
A recent study from the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) showed that Germany had experienced an immigration boom in the last five years, making it the second most popular destination for permanent immigrants in the world.
And figures released from Federal Statistics Office (Destatis) in June found that more than 15.3 million people living in Germany have a migrant background.
Many immigrants are better qualified than a lot of Germans, filling a gap in Germany's skilled labour market, according to a report also released in June from the Berlin Institute for Population and Development.
Actually in my world he would have been tossed back 10 years ago.
Perhaps we should start checking the citizenship of students who attend public school? After all if private businesses are required to verify citizenship why shouldn't government institutions?
How does having a D plus avg student in the workforce help the country? Your built up scenarios are just that, scenarios. Because you build up a situation that tugs on the heart strings of the uneducated in this country we shouldnt modernize our immigration policy?
I have to ask. Are you a champion of the drug war?
You still cant understand how a wall and letting people into a home are the same thing? Really?
List the number of countries in the last 100 years that built walls and armed them. Then let their citizen flow freely.
Your world isnt realistic. If we could have, we would have. Simply not possible to deport millions of people.
But back to my question. In your world view it is a wise use of public resources along with being morally right to toss a kid back to Peru who is attending Rutgers university?
German companies are now attracting immigrants who are, on average, better qualified than the domestic population.
US VP Biden: Germany is 'xenophobic'
The fact is that the Obama Administration has created the US immigration crisis. With Obama's Dream of single mothers and children storming the border by the tens of thousands...
And with their typical competence, the Obama Administration doesn't make any plans for the immigrants. Consequently, they suffer from lack of medical attention, housing, and similar...
On the other hand, German immigration policies favor better educated immigrants that can go to work and make an economic contribution.
But to the Obama Administration that is 'xenophobic.'
Really sad to see the politicians screwing over immigrants to make a political point... And rather than have a dialogue, they demonize any country that is doing it better...
But what is it that the Obama Administration always says? "Don't let a crisis go to waste."
Indeed, even if they have to manufacture that crisis.
Uno
So if the GOP does not approve the rewrite, will they enforce the law with the existing resources?WASHINGTON Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson today suggested that the GOP is responsible for the growing border crisis because it has not approved the Senates June 2013 immigration rewrite that is backed by President Barack Obama.
He suggested that migrants are now crossing the border while wrongly hoping they will be included in the amnesty that is part of the Senates bill.
There is a lot of anticipation [among potential migrants] about what comprehensive immigration reform would do, but it needs to be clear [to new border-crossers] that if the Congress acts on the pending legislation, the earned path to citizenship is for those who have been in the country now for a year and half, not those who are crossing today, he said.
The earned path to citizenship is the White Houses preferred term for amnesty.
If Congress acts, I believe we would know our immigration law landscape for years, if not decades, he said at an afternoon press conference.
If the GOP approves the massive rewrite, border officials will also have extra resources as well as stability in the law, he said.
He also signaled mixed support to a huge number of Latinos in Central America and in the United States who may want to send their children north in the hope they will be given permission to live in the United States.
He said the new migrants would not be eligible for the Senates amnesty, nor for the presidents 2012 Deferred Action for Childhood Migrants mini-amnesty. But he also said repeatedly that they would be treated very well, and would be allowed to make their case for residency in the administrations immigration courts.
that is my point. Our immigration policy encourages low skill labor to come here and remain under the radar while educated skilled labor gets put into years of hoops to become citizens.
I dont consider streamlining the immigration process so people like you can get in and become citizens much faster grandiose.
Of course the GOP won't, they want those illegals here just as much as the Dem's...and now that the problem has been allowed to continue for decades, enough voting representation (current and future) has been built up where both parties are actively fellating the hispanic vote.
I think we're talking about two different things. I agree that immigration policy is in dire need of reform, but it's not as simple as "make everyone legal" with a stroke of the pen, which is where things seem to be headed, with Obama's admin fixes. And what makes me mad is that those fixes seem to be directed exclusively at law breakers, with nothing toward those who are following the laws and are mired in them. That's my beef in this whole thing.
First fix the system, then deal with the illegal population here. They are two entirely different things.
Yeah, it's disquieting.
And even the CIR last year didn't really explain *how* it would decrease illegal immigration levels. Will this same problem recur ever 10-20 years then?
Because everyone going through school (the ones that do at least finish high school) isn't going to be a working professional. WTF are those Millions of people going to do? Just die? Live off their parents forever? Do you think it'd be a good idea to have jobs available to these people that they can actually support themselves on, or, at minimum, mostly support themselves on? It's like a surreal conversation I'm having here with you. There is no 'built up a situation', that is the situation Millions are in.
No, I think we should legalize most of it (meth, crack, etc. I'd not legalize) and simply make the punishment for dealing the illegal stuff so severe, no one in their right mind would deal it. I'm talking like first time 30 year jail sentence severe. As long as the dopers aren't getting public funds to get themselves straight, and go wallow in their misery, I'm fine with letting them ruin themselves. They wanted to go down that path, let them. With freedom comes responsibility, let them have both.
I understand you want to try and equate me not wanting illegals in my country to the same thing as someone wanting illegals in the country. I'm not sure how me building a wall around my own home is the same as you housing what you so desire. You're making the case it's a positive thing, would not you want that positive thing as close as possible to you? I'm making the case it's a negative thing...why would I wall off my house?
Sure, can you give me the countries you wanted listed first that let 10's of Millions of illegals at the illegals pleasure? I like how the narrative is being set that our monitoring and entry system, which yes has walls, somehow automagically will oppress its own population. Can you explain in detail how a southern border system would oppress me in Chicago? I await this amazing answer...
I think we're talking about two different things. I agree that immigration policy is in dire need of reform, but it's not as simple as "make everyone legal" with a stroke of the pen, which is where things seem to be headed, with Obama's admin fixes. And what makes me mad is that those fixes seem to be directed exclusively at law breakers, with nothing toward those who are following the laws and are mired in them. That's my beef in this whole thing.
First fix the system, then deal with the illegal population here. They are two entirely different things.
Their (the pro-Open Borders crowd) "compromise" on this will be: Not only will we make everyone legal, we'll make it far easier and quicker for those going through the process! Yay!
How much longer people?On Tuesday, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) offered an amendment to the FY 2015 Transportation-HUD appropriations bill (H.R. 4745) to cut off Section 8 housing for those here in the country illegally. Gohmert cited a 2009 HUD study which showed that 0.4% of spending for housing programs go towards subsidizing illegal immigrants. His amendment would have cut the Public Housing Capital Fund by $7.1 Million and the Public Housing Operating Fund by $17.6 million, which is commensurate to the 0.4% share of the overall budget steered towards housing subsidies for illegal aliens.
In a time when some American citizens can't get the housing they need it is unacceptable that those ineligible are stealing from them. This amendment would help encourage HUD to look into this problem and make corrections in their oversight and enforcement of the laws that should govern the way they run the federal housing assistance programs, said Gohmert.
Amazingly, 70 Republican House members joined with almost every Democrat to defeat Gohmerts amendment. Among those who voted to keep the subsidies for illegals were Eric Cantor and Renee Ellmers, two Republicans who were challenged on their support for amnesty. Ironically, Cantor was defeated in a stunning upset on that very day by Dave Brat who criticized Cantor for promoting policies that have attracted more illegal immigration.
Worse, on the same day the House rejected the effort to cut off housing assistance, the Senate Appropriations subcommittee on Labor-HHS passed a bill appropriating $1.9 billion in aid to care for the new wave of illegal immigration from Central America pouring into the Rio Grande Valley. According to The Hill, this provision was crafted by Senate Appropriations Committee chairwoman Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) along with the Republican committee and subcommittee ranking members Richard Shelby (R-AL) and Jerry Moran (R-KS). No Republican objected or voiced concern for this open-ended commitment to subsidizing the illegal migration.
Most egregiously, we are witnessing members of Congress and the administration moving at the speed of lightning to provide illegal immigrants with immediate medical care at a time when our own veterans are being denied care.
Well the issue is deporting 20 million people will never happen. That is why I'm advocating a path to citizenship for these people. And no, I wouldn't support a simple signing statement on it neither. But imo if we change the law it will have to apply to these people as well.
Trust me it is equally as surreal on this end.
What do these people do right now????? Right now they are stuck competing with under the table labor that will work for less than min wage. You want to continue that system. I want to change it.
You realize your arguments are the same as the pro-drug war crowd? If only we make the penalties tougher. If only we make it more illegal. If only we introduce the possibility of death. Then these people will stop selling drugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How has that turned out? How has our decades of terrible immigration policy of making things tougher turned out?
No i want you to understand that by making the argument those of us who want immigration reform that makes it easier to become productive citizens should open up our houses is no different than those wanting an armed wall should build one around their house.
How you can't understand they are the same argument fascinates me.
Also you are mischaracterizing my argument. I dont want more illegals. I want to change our immigration policy so these people can become citizens. If anybody is advocating more illegals. That would be you and your misguided theory making it harder for people to become citizens will keep them from coming here.
My point wasn't about stopping illegals from coming in. My point is when a country builds armed walls around its borders. Those walls in the past make the citizens of that country prisoners. And where have you been the past 14 years? NSA spying, no fly lists, drone strikes on citizens. I'm sure the authoritarians would love to seal off the ability of anybody they want from leaving the country. And people like you would cheer them on. Meanwhile the people getting in will still get in.
Also you are mischaracterizing my argument. I dont want more illegals. I want to change our immigration policy so these people can become citizens. If anybody is advocating more illegals. That would be you and your misguided theory making it harder for people to become citizens will keep them from coming here.
Advocating a path to citizenship is utterly unsupportable given any sense of justice.
If you really think it is impossible to get them to leave then the most you should be supporting is permanent residency. With no chance of citizenship for them to make it clear that what they did was wrong.
Illegals currently in this country are obviously a much more urgent problem *for this country* than people waiting for legal entry.
Good to know fairness or justice doesn't matter in your eyes when it comes making policy judgements. Oh wait, it's only fair or just when the target is sufficiently "downtrodden" in a liberal's eyes. People who've actually managed to make something of their lives don't matter, fuck them.