I'd vote for Bush twice if I could

[heartsurgeon]

I do major in economics

You should sue your professors for not teaching you anything.

I will be graduating shortly from a respected school

Hmm, no name eh? "Respected" is better than elitist right?

law school

Figures....parasitic profession.

Canada

Mike Myers was the last good thing to come out of Canada...

 

[3chordcharlie]

I attend the University of Waterloo, in Ontario, Canada. I believe you'll find it to be a fairly wll respected institution. Some of my professors are useless idiots, and some are among the best in the world, having taught at Oxbridge and assorted other schools which may be 'academically rigorous' or 'elitist' depending on your point of view, but do not hire bad professors either way.

I didn't say I wanted to practise law, I said I was planning to go to law school. It's like getting an MBA, only useful ;-) I agree that in many cases law is a parasitic profession; someday I'll detail why, and at the same time I'll explain how heart surgery in a privatized medical system holds patients for ransom because they have no choice other than death. Explaining the parasitism of some parts of the legal system will take a fair bit more time and effort, since it is both less obvious and less conclusive.

My professors have taught me plenty about your simplistic 'big pie' theory of why you deserve more. The trouble is the world, and the economy is not so simple as your theory requires, and there are likely hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of externalities and public goods contributions to your earnings.

The key to real growth, and real opportunity (note that I don't say equality, other than legal equality - equality doesn't exist from the moment we are born, and there is no benefit to trying to enforce economic equality) is not leaving money only in the hands of the rich, nor is it in crippling taxes. If America (or Canada, or Britain, or any other country) wants to stay ahead of the curve, the key is education. People need to WANT to be better educated than people are anywhere else, and the opportunities need to be there for them to achieve that education. You're very right that smoking pot is not a particularly effective plan for acheiving much of anything, but I think you're over-estimating the number of people who do this on a regular basis.

This is the second time you have responded only to the least relevent parts of my posts; as a result I expect you are unwilling to devote much effort to defending your version of economics. I don't pretend to know everything, and I don't recognize bad thinking every time it ocmes my way; but in your case, you are much too centred on short-term gains than on sustainable growth. If not for the wealthy of previous generations, you would not be so wealthy as you are today.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
law school - Figures....parasitic profession.

How noble of the 'doctor' to bash lawyers. Why do people even bother feeding you? It's no wonder you have so much free time to troll on an internet message board. You would think a successful heart surgeon such as yourself might occasionally be needed at a hospital....

I can see it now, you are in the middle of a complicated and dangerous pericardiectomy when you remember you need to get on P&N to refute a post that 3chordcharlie made, time to stitch him up and send him home, your work is done, time to troll .... LOL

 

[heartsurgeon]

You would think a successful heart surgeon such as yourself might occasionally be needed at a hospital....

I'm capable of multi-tasking....P&N is for entertainment, helps relieve the stress of the real world!

You've got to many socialists/commies Professors from England's academia. Let me ask you some very simple economic questions:

what has the GDP of the U.S. done over the past 10 years, the past 20 years?
what has the U.S. population done over the past 10 and 20 years.
what have actual tax revenues collected by the Federal goverment done over the past 10, 20 years.

answer these simple questions and i'll show you how wrong headed your professors are.

"privatized medicine" is bad? well in you "everyone gets the same treatment" system, that means plenty of people don't get correct, timely care. I see Canadians coming here for surgery, not the other way around.

Why do people from other countries try and come here? Because this is a place where "poor" people are fat, live in homes, drive cars have cable, and air conditioning.

Economic theory sounds great...but step back and look at the actual numbers. The economic pie in this country doubles in size every ten years. the population size is static...federal tax revenues will relentless rise, just as the GDP does, even if the taxation rates never change. Yet the population stays the same, and inflation is low.....

explain to me again how raising taxes makes the economic pie grow larger?
if that's the case, why not confiscate everyone income? Oops, that's communism, and unfortunately for you, that experiment with wealth redistribution failed (unless you count Nkorea and Cuba as a success).

I liked Mike Myers..he's funny.

 

[3chordcharlie]

I'm not asking anyone to raise your taxes, though I think that's preferable to raising the taxes of the poorer people in your country, if the choice needs to be made.

Your economic data are more or less accurate, and occured despite progressive taxation, so I can't see them proving very much at all. I don't hide behind economic theory, and the best lesson I have ever learned from one of my English commie teachers is that economic theories of equilibrium and growth and nearly everything else are much too simple to be of more than limited value in practice.

Privatized medecine also guarantees that an enourmous portion of the population will receive no health care at all. If this doesn't seem like a problem to you then I would suggest we are at an impasse at least WRT that bit of our little debate. I don't like the waiting times for some procedures in Canada - my grandfather died waiting for heart surgery that he could have afforded to pay for, in any country including yours; he also spent more than 24 hours on a stretcher in a hallway waiting for a hospital bed. But a system which malfunctions is not the same as one which is not viable.

You're quite right, countries like Canada, the USA, Sweden (the list goes on) are among the best in the world if you have to be poor somewhere. And you make more money as a surgeon in the United States than you could anywhere else.

BTW I'm quite capable of assuming that you have plenty of time to be a surgeon AND visit an internet forum once in a while, though I'll admit to letting a little smile cross my lips over that exchange. I don't think you're a troll, but I obviously don't agree with you about much, at least politically!

 

[SuperTool]

When Republicans implement their economic ideas AND balance the budget, call me.
Until now, I am not impressed with their borrow and spend "prosperity". I can make "prosperity" at home too by getting some credit cards and spending like a drunken sailor.
As far as social service spending, Social Security is the biggest, and since SS surpluses are now being used to finance these taxcuts, don't be surprised when income taxes will have to be used to finance SS. If you think American people will let GOP scrap SS, after paying into it all their lives, you got another thing coming.

 

[heartsurgeon]

hmm...lets see, the latest "forcast" is that social security is financial sound through at least 2050 . I love it when liberals start up with "the sky is falling"..let's review the liberal track record at predictions..

1920's - build dams, dams are good, cheap energy.
1960's to many kids going to sleep hunger because of Republicans.
1960's..."Global Cooling" we are all going to freeze!
1970's we'll be out of oil by 2000
1970's Solar and Wind power will save us. nuclear is bad.
1990's "Global warming" we're all gonna fry!
2000 leading liberal "Nuclear will save us"..
2000 Wind power kills birds, wind power is evil.
2000 - tear down dams, dams are bad for Salmon
2000 to many kids obese because of Republicans.

when you've been around long enough you get pretty sleptical of liberals ability to forcast the future.

When Republicans implement their economic ideas AND balance the budget, call me.

Listen carefully, this is probably to complicated for you to understand, but here it goes...the U.S. economy doubles every ten years. inflation is low. tax revenues increase over time because the economy grows. the population is static. the Federal debt, as a perecent of GDP is there fore constantly shrinking, even if we don't pay it down. this means our debt becomes a smaller and smaller portion of our "net worth" as the economy expands relentlessly. the only key to prosperity and a better life for everyone in this country is through economic growth. taxes inhibit economic growth. to the extent that taxes can be kept low, everyone gets a better life, faster than anyother way.

'Social security surpluses" are not being used to "fund" my tax refund. a Refund is a return of some part of MY MONEY. You're into this loopy frame of mind where letting me keep part of what i earn is somehow "spending" by the Feds.....this would only make sense to someone who is liberal, and never paid a dime in income taxes in his life.

Privatized medecine also guarantees that an enourmous portion of the population will receive no health care at all

You are completely and utterly wrong. Who told you this crap? ANYONE who shows up at a hospital gets care. nobody gets turned away. A drunk can fall off a barstool and crack his head open in this country, and an ambulance will pick him up in under 15 minutes, rush him to the nearest hospital, where a highly trained physician will examine him, and if necessary, the drunk, homeless, uninsured person will undergo emergency surgery to save his life.....and the drunk will never pay a dime. i know, because i;'ve seen thyis exact scenario played out over and over again.

it's utter crap that "uninsured" means no access to health care. who ever told you that is just trying to make you feel better about the limited care you can receive in Canada. No waiting in the U.S., even if yoiur an obnoxious, intoxicate degenerate.....

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

HS, why don't you tell us where you practice so none of the liberals go to your hospital for cardiac surgery?

 

[Phokus]

Heartsurgeon calling someone a socialist and commie is hillarious considering he wants socialized healthcare and is going to vote for bush. Must be the OP's retarded brother.

 

[kage69]

Must be the OP's retarded brother.

:laugh:

 

[3chordcharlie]

Conservatives in Canada tell me not to worry about privatized health care; after all, the coverage gap in the USA is only about 10% of the population.

You're a heart surgeon; you know perfectly well that emergency health care is not the only kind, and that proper, available, preventive (for some reason the word "preventative" seems to be out of fashion these days) health care is not only more important, but in some cases more costly.

You also need to stop equating intelligence and skill with entitlement. You can't say in the same breath that we underweight the value of intelligent people and their entitlement to make money and also that anyone who does not make a great deal of money must be a slacker. The positions are not only simplistic, they are quote inconsistent with each other, since intelligence and effort are not really correlated at all.

I also question your frequent references to yourself as a wealth generator. Please tell me what you have created. You provide a very valuable, and expensive service, but you do not generate wealth. Like it or lump it, heart surgery is pure 'consumption'. This doesn't make it wrong, and it doesn't make it not valuable; but it is not wealth generation, and it never will be.

I am not currently intoxicated, nor have I yet posted a single message to this forum while intoxicated. Furthermore, as you continue to ignore, I am gainfully employed, I do pay taxes, and I do not collect government assistance in my spare time. I do however live in a country where the best schools are still subsidized (with tutition not dependent on income) to make sure that all schools have the potential to accept the most qualified candidates, instead of only the most qualified rich candidates.

As a final note, I would also like to point out that your debt, in American dollars, shrinks faster when economic growth and inflation are both high, not when inflation is minimal. This is one of the reasons that deficit financing became unpopular when countries decided to also fight against inflation. Why don't you try calculating the increase in GDP you will need this year to 'pay for' GW's deficit through growth?

 

[soundforbjt]

You are completely and utterly wrong. Who told you this crap? ANYONE who shows up at a hospital gets care. nobody gets turned away. A drunk can fall off a barstool and crack his head open in this country, and an ambulance will pick him up in under 15 minutes, rush him to the nearest hospital, where a highly trained physician will examine him, and if necessary, the drunk, homeless, uninsured person will undergo emergency surgery to save his life.....and the drunk will never pay a dime. i know, because i;'ve seen thyis exact scenario played out over and over again.

Where do you live? I want to move to this fantasyland.

Maybe true if the person has no job, But believe me if the guy has a job, he'll be paying off the hospital for the rest of his life. Never able to afford a house, car, or to send his kids to college.

Now I'm against free doctor's visits, But if a person needs major care or it will affect their quality of life, They should be able to get it without paying for it the rest of their life.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
the U.S. economy doubles every ten years. inflation is low. tax revenues increase over time because the economy grows. the population is static. the Federal debt, as a perecent of GDP is there fore constantly shrinking, even if we don't pay it down. this means our debt becomes a smaller and smaller portion of our "net worth" as the economy expands relentlessly. the only key to prosperity and a better life for everyone in this country is through economic growth. taxes inhibit economic growth. to the extent that taxes can be kept low, everyone gets a better life, faster than anyother way.

'Social security surpluses" are not being used to "fund" my tax refund. a Refund is a return of some part of MY MONEY. You're into this loopy frame of mind where letting me keep part of what i earn is somehow "spending" by the Feds.....this would only make sense to someone who is liberal, and never paid a dime in income taxes in his life.

Privatized medecine also guarantees that an enourmous portion of the population will receive no health care at all

You are completely and utterly wrong. Who told you this crap? ANYONE who shows up at a hospital gets care. nobody gets turned away. A drunk can fall off a barstool and crack his head open in this country, and an ambulance will pick him up in under 15 minutes, rush him to the nearest hospital, where a highly trained physician will examine him, and if necessary, the drunk, homeless, uninsured person will undergo emergency surgery to save his life.....and the drunk will never pay a dime. i know, because i;'ve seen thyis exact scenario played out over and over again.

it's utter crap that "uninsured" means no access to health care. who ever told you that is just trying to make you feel better about the limited care you can receive in Canada. No waiting in the U.S., even if yoiur an obnoxious, intoxicate degenerate.....

HS speaks the truth. I suddenly don't feel so alone, and relieved that there's someone else here with an IQ over 30. If liberals could understand these concepts that HS speaks of, maybe they'd have a change of mind. But it's difficult to shun everything you've been taught to believe.

"No...must resist.....taxing has to be good....the Democrats told us so....can't agree with a Republican.....Bush doesn't speak well..."

 

[IndieSnob]

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
the U.S. economy doubles every ten years. inflation is low. tax revenues increase over time because the economy grows. the population is static. the Federal debt, as a perecent of GDP is there fore constantly shrinking, even if we don't pay it down. this means our debt becomes a smaller and smaller portion of our "net worth" as the economy expands relentlessly. the only key to prosperity and a better life for everyone in this country is through economic growth. taxes inhibit economic growth. to the extent that taxes can be kept low, everyone gets a better life, faster than anyother way.

'Social security surpluses" are not being used to "fund" my tax refund. a Refund is a return of some part of MY MONEY. You're into this loopy frame of mind where letting me keep part of what i earn is somehow "spending" by the Feds.....this would only make sense to someone who is liberal, and never paid a dime in income taxes in his life.

Privatized medecine also guarantees that an enourmous portion of the population will receive no health care at all

You are completely and utterly wrong. Who told you this crap? ANYONE who shows up at a hospital gets care. nobody gets turned away. A drunk can fall off a barstool and crack his head open in this country, and an ambulance will pick him up in under 15 minutes, rush him to the nearest hospital, where a highly trained physician will examine him, and if necessary, the drunk, homeless, uninsured person will undergo emergency surgery to save his life.....and the drunk will never pay a dime. i know, because i;'ve seen thyis exact scenario played out over and over again.

it's utter crap that "uninsured" means no access to health care. who ever told you that is just trying to make you feel better about the limited care you can receive in Canada. No waiting in the U.S., even if yoiur an obnoxious, intoxicate degenerate.....

HS speaks the truth. I suddenly don't feel so alone, and relieved that there's someone else here with an IQ over 30. If liberals could understand these concepts that HS speaks of, maybe they'd have a change of mind. But it's difficult to shun everything you've been taught to believe.

"No...must resist.....taxing has to be good....the Democrats told us so....can't agree with a Republican.....Bush doesn't speak well..."

You agree because you have blind faith in someone who spews the same rhetoric that you sucscribe to. His crap logic of even poor people can go to a hospital doesn't mean that all people have good healthcare. When I was 20 and first got my start in the IT world (pc tech making $8 an hour, not bad for the area I lived in), I had some health troubles. I went to the hospital, because no private doctor would see me unless I paid up front. The visit was a total of about $2,000. I tried to setup payments with the hospital, but they refused, instead after not paying the total off in two months, they went to cut the money out of my checks, but then backed off on that and took me to court. So in the end, I ended up paying over $4,000. Yeah, that's great healthcare right there. The other funny part is that it's a Catholic hospital. While I also think there is holes in the Canadian healthcare system, it's still in theory not the worst idea.

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Lesser of two evils? Last time i checked, giving republicans carte blanch control of government resulted in BIGGER GOVERNMENT. What we DONT need is ONE party controlling the whole government, what we need is either

a) Gridlock

or

b) A party that values limited government and ACTUALLY IMPLMENTS PLANS TO LIMIT GOVERNMENT in power.

the last time you [or we] checked is irrevelant. you need to use a historical perspective on the larger govt issue. last time i checked, the libs were the ones increasing the size and interference of govt. not only that, but libs love to pack courts with judges that love to interfere in problems that are in societies domain.

(a) thats an ok plan, i have no really large issues with gridlock other than it really gets nothing done because ideology is all thats looked out for and the benefit of society at large.

(b) well thats a no brainer. we need to get it through to politicians that blind partisanship is NOT the way to go and that it actually pisses thinking people off. not only that, but you'll have to create a larger awareness of the third parties [Libertarian, Green, and Constitution] so as to HOPEFULLY dethrone or weaken the two major parties.

 

[Rob9874]

Once, while in college, I was really hungry and had no money for food. I went to the store to see if they would give me some food (I mean, c'mon, I need food to live), and they said I had to pay for it! I told them I had no money, and they sent me away. I asked people around the parking lot if they would pay for my food, and they told me to get lost. Life isn't fair.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
[ ... ]
A drunk can fall off a barstool and crack his head open in this country, and an ambulance will pick him up in under 15 minutes, rush him to the nearest hospital, where a highly trained physician will examine him, and if necessary, the drunk, homeless, uninsured person will undergo emergency surgery to save his life.....and the drunk will never pay a dime. i know, because i;'ve seen thyis exact scenario played out over and over again.

Personally, I'd suggest you either drink less or start sitting on the floor. Just a thought.

 

[IndieSnob]

Originally posted by: Rob9874
Once, while in college, I was really hungry and had no money for food. I went to the store to see if they would give me some food (I mean, c'mon, I need food to live), and they said I had to pay for it! I told them I had no money, and they sent me away. I asked people around the parking lot if they would pay for my food, and they told me to get lost. Life isn't fair.

Wow, nice rebuttal. Myself, trying to make payment arrangements for something, versus asking for free food at a grocery store is completely inane. Try again Rob, or is it you can't make a reply without acting like a child? I'll be patiently waiting, but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Rob9874
HS speaks the truth. I suddenly don't feel so alone, and relieved that there's someone else here with an IQ over 30. If liberals could understand these concepts that HS speaks of, maybe they'd have a change of mind. But it's difficult to shun everything you've been taught to believe.

"No...must resist.....taxing has to be good....the Democrats told us so....can't agree with a Republican.....Bush doesn't speak well..."

:cookie;

 

[3chordcharlie]

I guess I should comment on the little mistakes too:

The last time the American economy was even close to doubling every 10 years on a [per capita] basis or even in aggregate was in the 1960s, if not the 1950s. The deficit may shrink due to inflation, but the 'economic growth' mode of deficit reduction has been moving at a snail's pace for 40 years now.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
I guess I should comment on the little mistakes too:

The last time the American economy was even close to doubling every 10 years on a [per capita] basis or even in aggregate was in the 1960s, if not the 1950s. The deficit may shrink due to inflation, but the 'economic growth' mode of deficit reduction has been moving at a snail's pace for 40 years now.

Wasn't the highest federal income tax bracket 90% during that era? That would suggest higher taxes are good for growth. When the government has money to invest in our physical, economic, and educational infrastructure, everyone benefits ... even the wealthy.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Conservatives in Canada tell me not to worry about privatized health care; after all, the coverage gap in the USA is only about 10% of the population.

You're a heart surgeon; you know perfectly well that emergency health care is not the only kind, and that proper, available, preventive (for some reason the word "preventative" seems to be out of fashion these days) health care is not only more important, but in some cases more costly.

You also need to stop equating intelligence and skill with entitlement. You can't say in the same breath that we underweight the value of intelligent people and their entitlement to make money and also that anyone who does not make a great deal of money must be a slacker. The positions are not only simplistic, they are quote inconsistent with each other, since intelligence and effort are not really correlated at all.

I also question your frequent references to yourself as a wealth generator. Please tell me what you have created. You provide a very valuable, and expensive service, but you do not generate wealth. Like it or lump it, heart surgery is pure 'consumption'. This doesn't make it wrong, and it doesn't make it not valuable; but it is not wealth generation, and it never will be.

I am not currently intoxicated, nor have I yet posted a single message to this forum while intoxicated. Furthermore, as you continue to ignore, I am gainfully employed, I do pay taxes, and I do not collect government assistance in my spare time. I do however live in a country where the best schools are still subsidized (with tutition not dependent on income) to make sure that all schools have the potential to accept the most qualified candidates, instead of only the most qualified rich candidates.

As a final note, I would also like to point out that your debt, in American dollars, shrinks faster when economic growth and inflation are both high, not when inflation is minimal. This is one of the reasons that deficit financing became unpopular when countries decided to also fight against inflation. Why don't you try calculating the increase in GDP you will need this year to 'pay for' GW's deficit through growth?

So many good points in one passing post. Welcome, 3chordcharlie, to P&N!

I hope you never get tired of patiently making trenchant points. Just don't expect to be answered in kind.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
hmm...lets see, the latest "forcast" is that social security is financial sound through at least 2050 . I love it when liberals start up with "the sky is falling"..let's review the liberal track record at predictions..

1920's - build dams, dams are good, cheap energy.
1960's to many kids going to sleep hunger because of Republicans.
1960's..."Global Cooling" we are all going to freeze!
1970's we'll be out of oil by 2000
1970's Solar and Wind power will save us. nuclear is bad.
1990's "Global warming" we're all gonna fry!
2000 leading liberal "Nuclear will save us"..
2000 Wind power kills birds, wind power is evil.
2000 - tear down dams, dams are bad for Salmon
2000 to many kids obese because of Republicans.

when you've been around long enough you get pretty sleptical of liberals ability to forcast the future.

When Republicans implement their economic ideas AND balance the budget, call me.

Listen carefully, this is probably to complicated for you to understand, but here it goes...the U.S. economy doubles every ten years. inflation is low. tax revenues increase over time because the economy grows. the population is static. the Federal debt, as a perecent of GDP is there fore constantly shrinking, even if we don't pay it down. this means our debt becomes a smaller and smaller portion of our "net worth" as the economy expands relentlessly

You were saying?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Conservatives in Canada tell me not to worry about privatized health care; after all, the coverage gap in the USA is only about 10% of the population.

You're a heart surgeon; you know perfectly well that emergency health care is not the only kind, and that proper, available, preventive (for some reason the word "preventative" seems to be out of fashion these days) health care is not only more important, but in some cases more costly.

You also need to stop equating intelligence and skill with entitlement. You can't say in the same breath that we underweight the value of intelligent people and their entitlement to make money and also that anyone who does not make a great deal of money must be a slacker. The positions are not only simplistic, they are quote inconsistent with each other, since intelligence and effort are not really correlated at all.

I also question your frequent references to yourself as a wealth generator. Please tell me what you have created. You provide a very valuable, and expensive service, but you do not generate wealth. Like it or lump it, heart surgery is pure 'consumption'. This doesn't make it wrong, and it doesn't make it not valuable; but it is not wealth generation, and it never will be.

I am not currently intoxicated, nor have I yet posted a single message to this forum while intoxicated. Furthermore, as you continue to ignore, I am gainfully employed, I do pay taxes, and I do not collect government assistance in my spare time. I do however live in a country where the best schools are still subsidized (with tutition not dependent on income) to make sure that all schools have the potential to accept the most qualified candidates, instead of only the most qualified rich candidates.

As a final note, I would also like to point out that your debt, in American dollars, shrinks faster when economic growth and inflation are both high, not when inflation is minimal. This is one of the reasons that deficit financing became unpopular when countries decided to also fight against inflation. Why don't you try calculating the increase in GDP you will need this year to 'pay for' GW's deficit through growth?

So many good points in one passing post. Welcome, 3chordcharlie, to P&N!

I hope you never get tired of patiently making trenchant points. Just don't expect to be answered in kind.

Agreed. Kudos to 3chordcharlie.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
hmm...lets see, the latest "forcast" is that social security is financial sound through at least 2050 . I love it when liberals start up with "the sky is falling"..let's review the liberal track record at predictions..

1920's - build dams, dams are good, cheap energy.
1960's to many kids going to sleep hunger because of Republicans.
1960's..."Global Cooling" we are all going to freeze!
1970's we'll be out of oil by 2000
1970's Solar and Wind power will save us. nuclear is bad.
1990's "Global warming" we're all gonna fry!
2000 leading liberal "Nuclear will save us"..
2000 Wind power kills birds, wind power is evil.
2000 - tear down dams, dams are bad for Salmon
2000 to many kids obese because of Republicans.

when you've been around long enough you get pretty sleptical of liberals ability to forcast the future.

When Republicans implement their economic ideas AND balance the budget, call me.

Listen carefully, this is probably to complicated for you to understand, but here it goes...the U.S. economy doubles every ten years. inflation is low. tax revenues increase over time because the economy grows. the population is static. the Federal debt, as a perecent of GDP is there fore constantly shrinking, even if we don't pay it down. this means our debt becomes a smaller and smaller portion of our "net worth" as the economy expands relentlessly

You were saying?

:thumbsup:

That looks like a "pwned" to me.