Idea: common care clinic

[Leros]

When you have a common illness or something you have to go to a clinic. From my experience this costs about $75 - 150, which is a decent amount of money for most people. Most of these common illnesses are probably pretty easy to diagnose.

So what if you had the option to go to a 'common care clinic' for say about $20. The people would not be doctors, physicians assistants, or nurses. They might have about 3 months of training and maybe a basic license. Just enough so they can determine symptoms, recognize common illness, read a diagnostic flowchart, and be aware enough to refer you to a real doctor if necessary.

Obviously you would need to sign some kind of waiver. "I recognize that I am being treated at a Common Care Clinic as defined by... blah blah. I understand there is a higher risk of misdiagnosis, etc and I waive my right to sue for malpractice in the event of a misdiagnosis, etc."

So then you would have two options:

real clinic
- $100
- real doctor
- less risk

common care clinic
- $20-30
- less trained staff, no medical school
- more risk, but probably good enough to diagnose common ailments

It seems like a good option for people who don't have health insurance. And the people with good health insurance can still go to a real clinic for their everyday common needs if they want.

Thoughts?



Edit to address problems:

- This all assumes that laws have been changed to accommodate for cheaper health care options.
- Common Care Clinic would be a legally defined thing. The licenses of the staff would be legally defined.
- Laws would be changed so that common drugs could be prescribed by a non-doctor, perhaps a PA. A PA could run the entire common care clinic.
- There would be a legal set of illness that they would be allowed to diagnose, anything else they would have to refer you.

 

[TruePaige]

The issue would be that too many serious illnesses present with the signs of a lesser illness.

You'd think a waiver would help but honestly public health policy would crush the place.

Also, I have to think that things that are so simple someone with barely any medical training (and no ability to write prescriptions) don't need a doctor.

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
The issue would be that too many serious illnesses present with the signs of a lesser illness.

You'd think a waiver would help but honestly public health policy would crush the place.

Also, I have to think that things that are so simple someone with barely any medical training (and no ability to write prescriptions) don't need a doctor.

I can't diagnose myself with bronchitis right now. But with a few months of medical training, I would have the skills to identify all kinds of symptoms, take tests, etc.

And maybe laws could be changed so that drugs for common illnesses could be prescribed by a senior common care clinic person.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

I'll just see a doctor when my symptoms start causing problems.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: TruePaige
The issue would be that too many serious illnesses present with the signs of a lesser illness.

You'd think a waiver would help but honestly public health policy would crush the place.

Also, I have to think that things that are so simple someone with barely any medical training (and no ability to write prescriptions) don't need a doctor.

I can't diagnose myself with bronchitis right now. But with a few months of medical training, I would have the skills to identify all kinds of symptoms, take tests, etc.

I would also have a flowchart or a computer program to aid in my diagnosis.

But if they did diagnose you with Bronchitis, they wouldn't be able to write you a prescription to actually help you and you'd still have to go to a real doctor.

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
I'll just see a doctor when my symptoms start causing problems.

But if you're poor and have no health insurance. You might not go to a clinic and pay $100. But you might go to a clinic and pay $20.

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: TruePaige
The issue would be that too many serious illnesses present with the signs of a lesser illness.

You'd think a waiver would help but honestly public health policy would crush the place.

Also, I have to think that things that are so simple someone with barely any medical training (and no ability to write prescriptions) don't need a doctor.

I can't diagnose myself with bronchitis right now. But with a few months of medical training, I would have the skills to identify all kinds of symptoms, take tests, etc.

I would also have a flowchart or a computer program to aid in my diagnosis.

But if they did diagnose you with Bronchitis, they wouldn't be able to write you a prescription to actually help you and you'd still have to go to a real doctor.

And maybe laws could be changed so that drugs for common illnesses could be prescribed by a senior common care clinic person. Maybe that person could be a a PA and PAs could write prescriptions for certain common drugs.

(I'm thinking of a world where Common Care Clinic is legally defined and laws have been changed to accommodate for cheaper healthcare).

 

[SampSon]

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
I'll just see a doctor when my symptoms start causing problems.

But if you're poor and have no health insurance. You might not go to a clinic and pay $100. But you might go to a clinic and pay $20.

If you're poor and have no health insurance, chances are the government will gladly take care of you.

The idea kind of makes sense, but really where do you draw the line of "common care"?

You have endless numbers of people going into clinics/hospitals complaining of abdominal pain. That pain could be an extensive list of problems that a laymen may not be able to diagnose.

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
I'll just see a doctor when my symptoms start causing problems.

But if you're poor and have no health insurance. You might not go to a clinic and pay $100. But you might go to a clinic and pay $20.

If you're poor and have no health insurance, chances are the government will gladly take care of you.

The idea kind of makes sense, but really where do you draw the line of "common care"?

You have endless numbers of people going into clinics/hospitals complaining of abdominal pain. That pain could be an extensive list of problems that a laymen may not be able to diagnose.

That's why the common care staff would only be allowed to diagnose a certain set of things. Anything outside of that and they would legally required to refer you to a doctor.

Maybe they could even have some kind of basic self-diagnostic flow chart to help you determine if a common care clinic is able to treat you. Say abdominal pain might be on the list of things a common care clinic cannot help you with.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
I'll just see a doctor when my symptoms start causing problems.

But if you're poor and have no health insurance. You might not go to a clinic and pay $100. But you might go to a clinic and pay $20.

If you have no health insurance, you just go to an ER and don't pay anything. I just don't think 3 months of training would really allow anyone to accurately diagnosis much of anything. Sure, I'm sure you'd get lucky with "cold" or "flu" a number of times .. but so would anyone with no training whatsoever.

 

[Babbles]

Wow, on one hand I'll give you credit for at least thinking for some sort of solution, but on the other hand so many severe conditions may appear to be only 'mild' conditions. As such I think this would have the reverse of the intended effect and allow more serious conditions go untreated and/or improperly diagnosed. Which would make the general health of a population worse.

 

[SampSon]

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
I'll just see a doctor when my symptoms start causing problems.

But if you're poor and have no health insurance. You might not go to a clinic and pay $100. But you might go to a clinic and pay $20.

If you're poor and have no health insurance, chances are the government will gladly take care of you.

The idea kind of makes sense, but really where do you draw the line of "common care"?

You have endless numbers of people going into clinics/hospitals complaining of abdominal pain. That pain could be an extensive list of problems that a laymen may not be able to diagnose.

That's why the common care staff would only be allowed to diagnose a certain set of things. Anything outside of that and they would legally required to refer you to a doctor.

Maybe they could even have some kind of basic self-diagnostic flow chart to help you determine if a common care clinic is able to treat you. Say abdominal pain might be on the list of things a common care clinic cannot help you with.

This is like setting up a very baseline tier 1 tech support for health care. The hypothetical set of "things" would seem too small to bother with an extra layer of medical industry bureaucracy. Why even bother with setting up a system like this? I believe it would serve little purpose beyond making even more money for the health care industry.

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
I'll just see a doctor when my symptoms start causing problems.

But if you're poor and have no health insurance. You might not go to a clinic and pay $100. But you might go to a clinic and pay $20.

If you're poor and have no health insurance, chances are the government will gladly take care of you.

The idea kind of makes sense, but really where do you draw the line of "common care"?

You have endless numbers of people going into clinics/hospitals complaining of abdominal pain. That pain could be an extensive list of problems that a laymen may not be able to diagnose.

That's why the common care staff would only be allowed to diagnose a certain set of things. Anything outside of that and they would legally required to refer you to a doctor.

Maybe they could even have some kind of basic self-diagnostic flow chart to help you determine if a common care clinic is able to treat you. Say abdominal pain might be on the list of things a common care clinic cannot help you with.

This is like setting up a very baseline tier 1 tech support for health care. The hypothetical set of "things" would seem too small to bother with an extra layer of medical industry bureaucracy. Why even bother with setting up a system like this? I believe it would serve little purpose beyond making even more money for the health care industry.

1) I've had doctors at clinics tell me how "just about everybody coming in today either has this cold or that cold". People are smart enough to know they have a basic cold and not a complicated illness.

2) There are tons of people who don't make a lot of money, make too much for government insurance, but still can't afford a clinic visit. Think fast food workers, factory workers, janitors, etc. This would help people like that get basic care, without a government program.

We might still need a government program to get these people extreme medical care (hospital visits, etc), but the more we can allow the people to pay for themselves, the better.

 

[Mo0o]

This is a terrible idea.

There are community health clinics that offer care on a sliding scale for these kind of things.

If you dont have the proper training, theres gonna be a lot of misdiagnosis based only on things you've learned to recognize

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
I'll just see a doctor when my symptoms start causing problems.

But if you're poor and have no health insurance. You might not go to a clinic and pay $100. But you might go to a clinic and pay $20.

If you're poor and have no health insurance, chances are the government will gladly take care of you.

The idea kind of makes sense, but really where do you draw the line of "common care"?

You have endless numbers of people going into clinics/hospitals complaining of abdominal pain. That pain could be an extensive list of problems that a laymen may not be able to diagnose.

That's why the common care staff would only be allowed to diagnose a certain set of things. Anything outside of that and they would legally required to refer you to a doctor.

Maybe they could even have some kind of basic self-diagnostic flow chart to help you determine if a common care clinic is able to treat you. Say abdominal pain might be on the list of things a common care clinic cannot help you with.

This is like setting up a very baseline tier 1 tech support for health care. The hypothetical set of "things" would seem too small to bother with an extra layer of medical industry bureaucracy. Why even bother with setting up a system like this? I believe it would serve little purpose beyond making even more money for the health care industry.

1) I've had doctors at clinics tell me how "just about everybody coming in today either has this cold or that cold". People are smart enough to know they have a basic cold and not a complicated illness.

2) There are tons of people who don't make a lot of money, make too much for government insurance, but still can't afford a clinic visit. Think fast food workers, factory workers, janitors, etc. This would help people like that get basic care, without a government program.

We might still need a government program to get these people extreme medical care (hospital visits, etc), but the more we can allow the people to pay for themselves, the better.

1) I think a lot of that is a physician venting frustration about seeing so many sniffles and coughs in a day. And while there are quite a few people coming in with colds that aren't treatable beyond bed rest and a proper diet, I'm sure many physicians still don't advocate self-diagnosis all the time. Hell, I just saw a woman last week who (as per husband) had some minor abdominal pain the past few days, and one day of vomiting, then simply passed out and came in via EMS. She (an otherwise healthy individual as per husband, no history that they were aware of - which I don't place much faith in) was dead the next day. Sure, that's an extreme case but sometimes a cold isn't a cold and abdominal pain isn't cramps.

2) Factory workers, janitors, etc. are often unionized and have some sort of health insurance that can usually cover the small stuff. If not, they simply use an ER as a primary care clinic and pay nothing for basic medical care. It's abusing the system, but it works for them.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Leros
When you have a common illness or something you have to go to a clinic. From my experience this costs about $75 - 150, which is a decent amount of money for most people. Most of these common illnesses are probably pretty easy to diagnose.

So what if you had the option to go to a 'common care clinic' for say about $20. The people would not be doctors, physicians assistants, or nurses. They might have about 3 months of training and maybe a basic license. Just enough so they can determine symptoms, recognize common illness, read a diagnostic flowchart, and be aware enough to refer you to a real doctor if necessary.

holy crap what fail. Inexperienced, unlicensed practioners? You expect a season of House to prepare some schlub to diagnose a "common" illness?

holy shit this is a horrible idea.

 

[imported_six]

Originally posted by: Leros
Edit to address problems:

- This all assumes that laws have been changed to accommodate for cheaper health care options.
- Common Care Clinic would be a legally defined thing. The licenses of the staff would be legally defined.
- Laws would be changed so that common drugs could be prescribed by a non-doctor, perhaps a PA. A PA could run the entire common care clinic.
- There would be a legal set of illness that they would be allowed to diagnose, anything else they would have to refer you.

If you assume all that, then wouldn't it be easier to limit medical malpractice lawsuits so that doctors wouldn't have to pay a premium for insurance...thus passing the savings to patients?

On a side note...I've always wonder about optometrists??? "Which is better...A or B?" "1 or 2?" "A or B?"

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
The issue would be that too many serious illnesses present with the signs of a lesser illness.

You'd think a waiver would help but honestly public health policy would crush the place.

Also, I have to think that things that are so simple someone with barely any medical training (and no ability to write prescriptions) don't need a doctor.

ive read about programs kinda like what the OP is describing....in developing countries and areas. places where lack of food and water and sanitation are basic causes for a lot of health issues.

here, i dont see it being as useful, and as too much of a legal liability since suing the bejesus out of people is such a common trend here.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: six

Originally posted by: Leros
Edit to address problems:

- This all assumes that laws have been changed to accommodate for cheaper health care options.
- Common Care Clinic would be a legally defined thing. The licenses of the staff would be legally defined.
- Laws would be changed so that common drugs could be prescribed by a non-doctor, perhaps a PA. A PA could run the entire common care clinic.
- There would be a legal set of illness that they would be allowed to diagnose, anything else they would have to refer you.

If you assume all that, then wouldn't it be easier to limit medical malpractice lawsuits so that doctors wouldn't have to pay a premium for insurance...thus passing the savings to patients?

On a side note...I've always wonder about optometrists??? "Which is better...A or B?" "1 or 2?" "A or B?"

which is why they dont go to medical school. but even then, they have to be able to detect eye problems that could be indicative of something worse

 

[Scouzer]

Seeing a doctor in Canada without health insurance (for example, if you're not from here) is $26.50. Why can't you just have cheaper doctors? lol

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Scouzer
Seeing a doctor in Canada without health insurance (for example, if you're not from here) is $26.50. Why can't you just have cheaper doctors? lol

Because if I want an expensive procedure I want to be able to walk in and get it done that day, or perhaps shortly thereafter. I won't argue against some sort of NHI or more socialized system because I see a lot of benefit; but being coy about the cheap Canadian system is a bit off the base here.

 

[Turin39789]

So this would be for people unable to go to the pharmacy and read the list of symptoms on the bottles?

 

[Scouzer]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Scouzer
Seeing a doctor in Canada without health insurance (for example, if you're not from here) is $26.50. Why can't you just have cheaper doctors? lol

Because if I want an expensive procedure I want to be able to walk in and get it done that day, or perhaps shortly thereafter. I won't argue against some sort of NHI or more socialized system because I see a lot of benefit; but being coy about the cheap Canadian system is a bit off the base here.

In anywhere but Canada that has socialized medicine, you could. Everywhere else has a private system along the public system, so you could get the best of both worlds.

 

[nerp]

I think this would rely too much on people using WebMD to diagnose their own symptoms. The problem with this is it's too easy to confuse influenza with mad cow disease.

 

[Pandamonium]

3 months of training is enough to get someone an EMT-B license. The level of triage an EMT-B is capable of performing is pretty basic, and is only designed to get basic information that other healthcare professionals would probably need later down the line. As far as drug knowledge, 3 months of training is sufficient to administer oxygen, oral glucose, activated charcoal, and maybe epinephrine/nitroglycerine if a patient possesses their own epi/nitro. In other words, 3 months of training is insufficient to judge what kind of drugs are appropriate for a patient. IIRC, a paramedic goes through a 2 yr certification program and a few hundred hours of clinical experience and can administer a few dozen drugs. PAs go through 2-3yrs of training and while they are able to do more than a paramedic, they get approval from a physician for most of the advanced stuff. The next level up is probably a nurse- which typically requires a 4 yr program and 1000+ hours of clinical experience.

The point is, healthcare professionals need a lot of training to develop a diagnosis and treat it properly. A "common care clinic", as you describe it, with training lengths shorter than those currently used, is going to be wrong too often for the general public to trust and utilize. Hell, people already get second opinions on physician diagnoses because people don't think their first physician is "right". That first physician has spent 4 yrs in college, 4 yrs in medical school, 3-8 yrs in a residency, and possibly 2+ yrs in a subspecialty fellowship.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather see one professional with 6-12 yrs of medical training for $100 than 5 professionals with 3 months-2-3 yrs of medical training.