Idea I Had (long)

[Shrapnel9997]

All machines involve friction. That friction turns usable force into heat. Many ways of salvaging that lost energy have been devised to varying degrees of success. Generally all of those attempts require a temperature differential. This is because we have recognized and learned to predict the expansion and contraction properties of various gases or other forms of matter as temperatures change (i.e. Thermodynamics).

Consider instead what we know of heat itself. Heat is the degree of kinetic motion of individual atoms. For instance, when an object is thrown, friction slows it down, and kinetic energy of the object?s motion as one whole is transferred to smaller parts of that object. That kinetic energy of the whole is transferred to kinetic energy of individual atoms in a manner we can calculate and predict according to the law of conservation of energy. When we recognize this behavior at the macro level as heat, we deceive ourselves into understanding it as an independent property: temperature. Addressing the behavior in this manner has proven effective at dealing with and manipulating temperature macroscopically, but let us step aside from that view for the moment and consider atoms as they truly exist - as individual entities each possessing unique kinetic energy values (unique from the neighboring atom). Let us take this view of the individual atom and consider a possible way to harness kinetic energy from it into some usable form.

First assume (the first of several assumptions) there exists in the periodic table some single atom of medium-to-large size that is magnetically polar in nature (possessing positive and negative poles on opposite physical side and the magnetic field that results from such configuration). I must admit ignorance as to whether such an atom does or does not exist, but for the sake of this discussion let us assume it does exist.

Next assume we can form a separate wire of some electrically conductive element (of significantly smaller physical size) to create an electric circuit. We then loop this circuit around our atom so that the loop is within the effect of our atom's magnetic field. Any movement of the atom along the axis perpendicular to the loop?s plane would result in a changing magnetic flux from the perspective of the circuit-loop, and that changing magnetic flux in the circuit-loop would establish a corresponding electric potential difference along the circuit-loop (electric potential difference is what causes electric current in a closed circuit). If the atom is restricted to an oscillating motion along the axis perpendicular to the circuit-loop?s plane, the circuit-loop will experience an alternating potential difference that could then form an alternating current (at the frequency of the atom?s oscillation) if the circuit were closed.

Next assume it is also possible for many of our magnetically polar atoms to be physically arranged to form a wire (a line of atoms along one geometric axis) with width of exactly one atom. Assume we can manipulate the kinetic oscillation of any individual atom so that the atom only moves in significant distances along the axis of the wire (one atom only moves to and from the two atoms immediately neighboring it bouncing off them and transferring kinetic energy down the line):

Finally assume that each atom in our line of atoms can be looped with one circuit-loop. We could then form a larger circuit by connecting many (hundreds, thousands, millions...) of these circuit-loops in parallel to sum their currents together. Because each atom is bouncing off its neighbor, neighboring atoms are moving in opposite directions, creating opposite magnetic flux, and opposite electric potential difference. Thus the circuit loop of each respective atom would need to be connected to the circuit backbone in an opposite manner. The stated scenario is of course nothing less than ideal, and it is reasonable to accept that only every 2nd, 5th, or 10th atom will be encompassed by a circuit-loop. However there is plenty of room to spare at these scales so this is a small concession.

This larger circuit forms a device that effectively harnesses of the kinetic motion of many individual atoms into a very-high-frequency alternating current (coinciding) with some small electric potential difference potential difference. This frequency would coincide with the oscillation frequency of the atoms in the device and depend on the temperature of the device. The current?s potential difference would be directly dependant on the number of circuit-loops included in the device and how well the atoms? oscillations are synchronized. The kinetic motion of the individual atoms is of course not an endless source, so the line of atoms would need to be attached to some heat source such as a heat sink that itself is specifically made to contribute kinetic energy to the atoms along the line?s axis and in no other direction. This heat sink could then be attached to anything from a car?s radiator or a CPU?s heat sink to a ship?s hull or a helicopter?s propeller.

I will not attempt to address the means of translating the achieved AC current (High frequency, low current) into a usable voltage and frequency, as I have no particular insight into how that might be accomplished. The matter of harnessing usable energy simply from latent heat is the full extent of this concept of mine. Also, this concept relies on the validity of all the above assumptions being true. As well, it requires that a great many technological difficulties be overcome. I am not making a claim that this should work (though I am indeed very hopeful). I am simply trying to bring awareness of my idea to the minds and imaginations of those more educated in, and intimate to, those principles involved.

Now step back and consider the possible applications if this technology proves feasible. Implementation of this technology could easily lead to:
- refrigeration that generates an output of electricity/energy rather than an input
- effortless portable energy generation for portable electronics
- CPU heat sinks that redirect waste heat back toward powering the CPU
- power generators of all types (combustion, solar, hydro, geothermal, nuclear) are augmented by the simplified matter of dealing with waste heat - and new forms of generation could arise (vehicles on land, sea, and air could harness heat from the fluids they move through.)

Because this technology continues to work so long as atoms move, it could reasonably work well below zero degrees Celsius (273 Kelvin above absolute zero where atoms stop moving).


This technology, if proven viable, could literally change the world. So let me plainly request that anyone who reads this please forward this concept along with your own thoughts, ideas, and insights to anyone with familiarity in those fields incorporated in this concept. Let a dialogue be established concerning what stands in the way of realizing this abstraction.

Thank you.
Micah Bass

 

[Xyo II]

Welcome to the forums. But wire is composed of larger atoms, and you cannot build a wire that is going to be smaller in diameter than any of the atoms in question. But considering the efficiency of most electronic products, it tends to run about 98% efficiency, and it would be much, much easier to simply use more pure metals when constructing cpus than nano-construction. And where you are talking about effortless energy generation, it is not possible. There is a finite amount of energy in the Universe, and a finite amount in any singular point at any time. You cannot create energy. Even if it could work, there would be no means of using it, for the construction would require engineering years and years beyond us.

Welcome again to the forums. :thumbsup:

 

[herm0016]

welcome. . .

the atoms are not really as much as a physical object as far as structure goes than you would need them to be to make this work. no atom is polar. only molocules are, molocules are collections of atoms. for a molocule to be polar it needs to be made of positive and negitive ionic atoms, like water. water is h20. the shape of the atom also matters. water is a L shape with about 30 degrees between the 2 legs. the H atoms making up the legs and the O in the center. the hydorgen atoms are sharing there electron with the oxygen atom, the O atom has a more positive center so the electrons spend most of the time closet to it than to the H centers. this makes the H side of water postive and the O side negitively charged.

 

[Matthias99]

First assume (the first of several assumptions) there exists in the periodic table some single atom of medium-to-large size that is magnetically polar in nature (possessing positive and negative poles on opposite physical side and the magnetic field that results from such configuration). I must admit ignorance as to whether such an atom does or does not exist, but for the sake of this discussion let us assume it does exist.

I'm pretty sure that you can only have static magnetic effects like that at larger-than-single-atom scales. It has to do with alignment of atoms/molecules; the atoms themselves are not inherently 'magnetic'. You might be able to achieve a similar effect with charged ions, but then I suspect you will have attraction/repulsion problems at such small scales.

You're also going to have a hard time with entropy here -- the wires, etc. in the system are themselves going to bleed heat in the form of resistance, which is going to make generating any meaningful amount of power difficult. Also, I don't know how you would keep the individual atoms in phase -- you're going to get AC, but at a different frequency/phase from each atom. This would be very difficult to do anything useful with.

You can sort of envision the same system at a larger scale by having a bunch of free-hanging magnets strung together with springs, and an oscillator at one end that causes them to move back and forth. Put a wire around each magnet, and you'll generate electricity from it. But it's not a very useful form of electricity, and you will still have frictional losses in the system.

I'm no expert on nanomaterials, though, so maybe something like this could work to some extent. However:

- refrigeration that generates an output of electricity/energy rather than an input
- effortless portable energy generation for portable electronics
- CPU heat sinks that redirect waste heat back toward powering the CPU
- power generators of all types (combustion, solar, hydro, geothermal, nuclear) are augmented by the simplified matter of dealing with waste heat - and new forms of generation could arise (vehicles on land, sea, and air could harness heat from the fluids they move through.)

Most of this violates the second law of thermodynamics; you can't get more work/energy out of a system than you put into it. If you use the CPU's waste heat to power one of these gizmos, then what do you do with the waste heat from your gizmo? Since it cannot be 100% efficient, you'll always end up with more heat than you started with.

 

[PowerEngineer]

You've certainly put careful thought into your idea, and what you describe might be a logical extension of Maxwell's equations for electromagnetics if they could be applied down to the small (atomic) distances you are contemplating. Unfortunately, you are entering the realm where quantum physics takes over. Or maybe it is fortunately, since electrons could not stabily orbit their nucleuses under Maxwell's equations.

 

[alienal99]

as a clarification to what was stated earlier, single atoms ARE polar, but electrons cannot be held in one place, so atoms are intrinsically positive on the inside and negative on the valence shells. Since the electrons do NOT stay in one place, it is not really a usable pole, and trying to "hook a wire up" to it won't work, as it keeps moving in a seemingly random motion throughout an electron probability cloud (all the possible places the electron can be in relation to the nucleus)

Interesting idea you brought up, though. Find a way to get an electron to stay still, and you may just be able to pull it off.

alex

 

[Terumo]

Interesting concept, but one problem: Does it follow Occam's Razor? How many of those looping devices would be needed to run enough energy to power a power plant?

This is a topic I'm interested in due to another subject. In order to evolve to our next technology age we have to produce 10x the amount of energy. Right now we're producing only enough to get by. There's interesting ideas out there to archieve this feat (e.g., Dyson spheres), but the complexity and expense seems to make it more Sci-Fi than reality.

It's the same problem I'm having in thinking of a light magnification scheme (i.e., optical engineering) -- and one that uses less costly materials, without complex engineering to achieve.

Less parts/electronics/inhibitors = more chances your idea will work.

Wish there was a more simple process.

Terumo

 

[sao123]

this idea sounds remotely similar to the idea proposed a while back about using the earths magnetic fields to power sattelites in orbit.
The idea was refuted for some reason, though i dont recall why. Maybe someone can dig up the old thread or remember what was in it.