IE and FF crashing randomly

[sputkin]

Note: This is an update of sorts to a previous discussion I had here.


SHORT VERSION:

Internet Explorer and Firefox will both consistently and independently crash w/o notice after anywhere from a couple to 20 minutes of use (bringing up the windows error reporting box before shutting down). No other part of the computer seems to be affected, system runs just fine afterwards. At one time Zone Alarm would also randomly shut down (while just running in the background). I'm now using Kerio and at least it hasn't shut down on me.

I'm pretty sure this isn't virus related. What could be causing this???? Thanks for any help!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

REALLY LONG VERSION: if you have time to kill


Ok, I'm having somes strange crashing of internet programs on a new build. See below for specs (very barebones office machine). I started having problems a week or two into my build, where while using either IE or FF, the windows error reporting would pop up and say "we're sorry FF has shut down, would you like us to send an error report...etc". I was using ZA as my firewall, and occasionally it would also shut down coupled with an error reporting message. This would be just while it was running in the background, usually while using either IE or FF (IE or FF would keep running though). At the time, I also had Pegasus as my mail program, and once it did the same thing (gave error reporting message, shut down while in use).

Windows seems to not be effected in any way. And only those programs shut down, nothing else, so I'm thinking this must have something to do with an interent/(networking?) related problem.

This computer is hooked up to a home network, I've got 1 other PC, 1 other Mac, and 2 other PC laptops. All (but the Mac) the others have run ZA for the last couple years (ie, this computer is just an addon to a succesful network). I have NEVER had any similar problems with any of my other computers.


I've tried doing all kinds of things, if you read the previous thread referenced from the top, since then I've upgraded hard drives to a new 120GB Seagate. I should also note unlike the prev thread, I've had absolutely no 60sec shutdowns or anything like that, just internet app crashes.

I've reformatted several times, but seemingly each time with the same problem, each time making absolutely sure the network cable wasn't plugged in before I installed all the drivers (Via 4 in 1, Realtek audio, Lan) and then loaded AV and firewall software (via burned CD from another computer). This last time (about an hour ago) I even tried a different firewall and antivirus, going with Kerio and Avast. Same result. I plug the computer in after all the stuff is installed, connect to the internet no problem, and after about 15 minutes of websufing on IE, IE crashes just as before (coupled with windows error reporting).

As of this latest reformat I've had no problems with Kerio crashing (just IE, haven't bothered installing FF yet for easier troubleshooting), as ZA had done previously, if that helps any.



So.... what is my problem??? I'm at a total loss as to why it's doing this. It seems independent of any program, both IE and FF do the same thing. The rest of the computer seems A-OK, but why do my interent related apps suddenly crash? Please ask and I'll be happy to give any information I've left out. Sorry about the length, THanks!!

-Dan





ANTEC SLK2650-BQE
ECS VIA KT600-A
AMD Sempron 2400+
512MB Mushkin DDR PC-3200
Seagate 120GB HD
ATI Rage Pro 128 (VERY old card from an old system, using till I get around to upgrading, does what I need for the moment)
DVD-Rom, CD-RW
Windows XP OEM SP2

 

[fishmonger12]

update the browser yet?

done any spyware checks?

try 1 more browser to make sure it's not a problem with the applications?

 

[Match]

Do you have another network card you could try?

 

[sputkin]

Originally posted by: fishmonger12
update the browser yet?

I did all the windows updates first thing after connecting the computer for the first time, so I'm assuming that would have updated IE. Like I say above, I haven't installed FF on this reformat yet.

done any spyware checks?

Yep, both Adaware and Spybot come out clean (Spybot did pick up a few tracking cookies, but that's normal).

try 1 more browser to make sure it's not a problem with the applications?

I downloaded and installed Opera about an hour ago, and after about 20 minutes of use it too crashed. I was trying to go to different websites and pay attention to when it crashed, and it was in the middle of loading espn.com, BUT, it actually happened when I clicken on the "panels" link in Opera (to turn off these icons it places on the left side of the screen), it crashed just as I clicked. I tried several times to recreate it but no dice.

It's like the browser always crashed as it goes through a goes through a "hightened" bandwidth and CPU load (in the past it usually crashed just after clicking on a link, or while loading page, or using the scroll button on the mouse), except this load isn't anywhere near abnormal. I can be going to all kinds of sites, clicking like crazy on every link in sight for 10 minutes and nothing will happen, but then some random click or page loading will crash it.

Originally posted by: Match
Do you have another network card you could try?

Good point, I actually thought of it on the reformat before this one and stuck in an add-on PCI network card I had laying around (as opposed to the built-in one I'd been running). Unfortunately the same thing happened...



Anyone else? This is really killing me, I just don't get it. Is there something really really simple I'm missing here?

 

[fishmonger12]

it may be some sort of applet that's crashing... that's just speculation. are there any details when the thing crashes? does it crash at pages that utilise java, flash, etc.?

 

[sputkin]

Originally posted by: fishmonger12
it may be some sort of applet that's crashing... that's just speculation. are there any details when the thing crashes? does it crash at pages that utilise java, flash, etc.?

Maybe this'll be of some use. I opened 6 windows at a time to see what it would do and can get it to crash one of the windows pretty quickly. I went to espn.com on each screen and then clicked on random links constantly. I just picked espn.com cause I know it has at least java, and i believe flash (but I don't think I've installed any flash plugin yet, unless it would install automatically? the site shows up fine). I did this three times in a row and below are the three error reports. All seem identical. Strange thing is, one of the windows will crash after about 2 to 3 minutes, but it's a window that I'm not clicking on at that moment, and usually a window that should already be finished loading. I have no idea what this all means, maybe by opening 6 windows now i really AM overtaxing the processor and causing it to crash one of the windows, should this system be able to handle that?

Is there any particular test anyone can think of to accurately test if one of my applets (java, or flash, like fishmonger said) is causing the problem? It's just that this happens on three different browsers (IE, FF, Opera)....




------------------------------------------------------------

Faulting application iexplore.exe, version 6.0.2900.2180, faulting module kernel32.dll,
version 5.1.2600.2180, fault address 0x00009e4b.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.


Faulting application iexplore.exe, version 6.0.2900.2180, faulting module kernel32.dll,
version 5.1.2600.2180, fault address 0x00009e4b.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

Faulting application iexplore.exe, version 6.0.2900.2180, faulting module kernel32.dll,
version 5.1.2600.2180, fault address 0x00009e4b.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

 

[fishmonger12]

even though i SERIOUSLY doubt that hardware is the problem, go ahead and run prime95 for 12-24 hours straight, and see if you get any errors.

all the browser crashing i have seen through google has brought up spyware/malware issues, but it's wierd that all three browsers would be affected.

 

[sputkin]

Running prime95 as I type (on a different computer obviously :. Thanks, I've never tried it before, if nothing else it'll verify my system is (otherwise) stable : ). I'll let it run overnight and see how it's doing in the morning. Will the errors show up realtime? Guess I'll find out in the morning either way.

 

[fishmonger12]

cool. post results in the morning.

 

[blizz]

FF, the windows error reporting would pop up and say "we're sorry FF has shut down, would you like us to send an error report...etc".

got this for the first time this morning from espn.com. Found out it had to do with a flash plugin. I had the ADblock extension installed so I went to preferences and type in the following...http://adsatt.espn.go.com/*


I closed FF, reopened it and problem went away. May be a similar fix for IE...not sure as I can't create the problem with IE.

Hope this helps...at least for FF

 

[sputkin]

This is preliminary since I haven't had much time to mess with it, but I started running the "blend" torture test last night, and checked it after about 15 min before going to bed. Came up with an error after I think either the 1st or second test. Then tried the 2nd option (don't remember name, uses "some ram"), left it till this morning. Showed up an error again after the 2nd test (my number was 4.99ish and it expected something less than 4). Then tried running first test and watched it for about 20 min before leaving for the day. It had gone through 3 tests and was still going.

BUT, back to after the second test, there was a window from Kerio up asking something about allowing Avast to get online, so I said yes, and shortly after that the dreaded 60sec shutdown came up! I didn't get the chance to stop it thru the command prompt so it restarted. As soon as windows came back up the first thing that popped up was something like "LSA(host) has unexpectedly shut down". I told it not to send and error report and nothing else happened. That's when I started the the 3rd test and that's how I left it.....

So what does all that mean? The prime95 readme says a failed test is pretty much a sure indication of a HW problem. And since the two ram intesive tests failed right away while the 3rd at least went farther (I'm not home so don't' know if it's still going fine or not), maybe it means Ram problem? About 2 weeks ago though I ran an overnight test of memtest86 and it showed up completely clean after about 9 hours. The mystery continues for me.... I'll update again after I get home tonight.

 

[fishmonger12]

good, we're making headway.

it may be a ram incompatibility issue... try loosening up the timings some and running the ram at ddr333.

 

[sputkin]

Originally posted by: blizz

FF, the windows error reporting would pop up and say "we're sorry FF has shut down, would you like us to send an error report...etc".

got this for the first time this morning from espn.com. Found out it had to do with a flash plugin. I had the ADblock extension installed so I went to preferences and type in the following...http://adsatt.espn.go.com/*


I closed FF, reopened it and problem went away. May be a similar fix for IE...not sure as I can't create the problem with IE.

Hope this helps...at least for FF

That could well be, but since I'm showing some problems with tests in prime95 (plus the curious other stuff in my last couple posts) I'm thining there's more to it than that. I'll try doing that when some of these other problems get ironed out.

 

[sputkin]

Originally posted by: fishmonger12
good, we're making headway.

it may be a ram incompatibility issue... try loosening up the timings some and running the ram at ddr333.

Aha, I was wrong in the text you see below (this is an edit)! I was thinking of the jumper settings for the CPU if anyone read this before. The mobo limits the CPU to 333 (thus the manual jumper settings), but DOES support DDR400 ram. I see what you mean now fishmonger. My Ram WAS running at ddr400 (200MHz in the bios). During the day the blended test once again failed after just over an hour. So NOW..... I'll do as you suggested and run the ram at ddr333 and try another blend test. I'll leave the timings as they are since it's stock, actually "auto by speed" (or should I loosen them past stock?? i wouldn't think so..).

I leave the text below only as a testament to my stupidity, and for posterity.



I haven't done anything to change the timings from stock, should I still experiment? And i believe it's already running at 333 (I've read about this particular MB that the manual jumper settings cause people some problems, but they're set correctly at 166 so that shouldn't be an issue). The RAM is ddr400 but the motherboard only supports 333. I would have originally bought some PC-2700 but the PC-3200 was actually cheaper Would the fact that it's clocked down like that cause instability? I'll look tonight and report what the timings are and confirm that it's running at 333.

I also have a couple more prime 95 resulsts. I tried running a blend test again last night and it failed after 8 minutes. So I then tried unplugging the network cable and turning off all my antivirus, firewall, and any other main programs running in background. Tried the blend again and it this time failed after 1hr30min. I then ran the first tests on the list (the almost no ram one) and it was still going this morning, about 10hr30min. So I manually stopped it and will now try a blend test again just to see. I'll leave it all day and see what's happened when i get back home tonight. Again, this is still with all other programs shut down. The computer SHOULD still be able to give good results even with firewall, AV, etc running, though, right? I'll keep playing with it. Maybe tonight I'll try memtest again. Thankfully I'm in no real rush to use the computer so I can take my time....

 

[fishmonger12]

running the ram at a slower speed won't cause problems. it's interesting that disconnecting that stuff prolonged failure for a bit.

usually the test you want to run is the blend.

this time make sure you run memtest for 24 hours. sometimes it's freakish and won't detect problems until it's gone through a lot of cycles. it'll be good if we rule out the ram.

if it's possible, pop the ram in another system and run prime95 on that system.

 

[sputkin]

Read the post I edited two messages above this.....

That raises another question to me, would having the ram running at a different speed than the FSB on the CPU any instability? Not sure if that's even remotely and issue, just that FSB is at 400 and ram was running at ddr400 (which I guess is really 200 anyway). Either way, am now trying blendtest again using ram at ddr333 and seeing if there's any difference. Will try a 24hr memtest after that depending on what the new blendtest does. Will keep updating.... Oh, and a continuing thanks for the help to everyone! Not sure if I'm getting anywhere or chasing vapor trails around, if nothing else I'm learning a lot!

 

[fishmonger12]

running ram asynchronous to the FSB is called a divider. people use it to overclock pretty frequently.

the timings are fine at auto.

 

[sputkin]

Good news! After changing the ram to ddr333 I was able to run the blend test all night last night. 13hrs36min, I stopped it manually this morning. And that was with AV, etc, running in the background. Tonight I'll be able to get on it and browse the web on there to see if I still get errors, will let you know what happens....

 

[fishmonger12]

good. let's hope this fixes things.

 

[sputkin]

Well, it's run all day today with no problems! Various people in the family have used it for webrowsing today (all kinds of different sites, flash, java, etc) for a total of a few hours and not a single error message. I won't say I'm completely 100% sure all problems are gone since it's only been one day, but it sure looks that way. Thanks for all the help (esp fishmonger).

May this thread die in peace (and hopefully permanently!).

 

[fishmonger12]

rock on.