If a flat tax (at ~35%) with all other deductions removed was proposed, would you vote for it?

[zinfamous]

If you set 35% as the median of your "flat tax," and slide it up to as much as 80% for the millionaires and up, and down to as low as 10% for the minimum wagers and 0% for poverty level, then I would agree with your "flat tax" proposal.

 

[Jaskalas]

I don't want someone making only 20K giving up 20%.

What if they're getting 12k back, and don't have to worry about housing?
35% would cover that.

 

[BurnItDwn]

We should implement a 100% death tax and then drop income tax to whatever level is needed to balance the budgets after we nationalize health care.

 

[SlowSpyder]

35% is too high, but a flat tax without loopholes would be ideal.

 

[Indus]

We need to have the government stop handing out billions like it grows on trees. Revenue isn't the problem.

Yeah we need to stop paying billions to Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan.

Never thought I'd agree with you but fuck em if they're not American.

 

[Jhhnn]

35% is too high, but a flat tax without loopholes would be ideal.

Only if you want to punish low income working people. W/o programs like EITC, SNAP & so forth they'd be a lot worse off than they already are.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Only if you want to punish low income working people. W/o programs like EITC, SNAP & so forth they'd be a lot worse off than they already are.

I don't want to punish anyone. But why people think it is ok to discriminate against those that work hard to achieve vs. those that make poor decisions, I don't get it.

 

[nakedfrog]

Because only a few items consume almost 90% of the money. Military, SS, Medicare, and interest payments.

Did you just say Social Security is a government handout?

 

[zinfamous]

I don't want to punish anyone. But why people think it is ok to discriminate against those that work hard to achieve vs. those that make poor decisions, I don't get it.

You make a blind, naive assumption that anyone who is wealthy has, by default, worked hard to achieve that wealth. This is true in some cases, but in this country, it is not the vast majority of the actual wealthy people that have truly worked to achieve anything. Not in the last several generations. Taxes need to be restored to their patriotic levels of upwards of 80% with serious estate taxes, because the unending march of the GOP desperately trying to entrench the oligarchy is the central poison of any kind of functioning democracy.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Yeah, I was thinking that as I wrote up the first post, but figured I'd post and see what comes of it anyways. The problem is just too complex for a simple solution.

(business example)

I think it'd have to be actual take-home profit, not just revenue. Even if something as (apparently) ludicrous as a flat tax was installed it doesn't mean simple mistakes like this would be made.

"Actual take-home profit" is harder than it sounds.

There are immediate expenses like rent and wages, then a thousand "loopholes" that sometimes are not loopholes at all. Depreciation for example, because equipment wears out over time and loses any resale value. Many "loopholes" were added to the tax code because they made sense for dealing with a non-obvious expense or loss in value. Some of them make sense for one company but are an abuse by another.

 

[herm0016]

we should have a tiered tax system, but we should have far fewer ways to game it.

business should be able to deduct expenses similar to the current system. We should deduct health care, state and local income and property taxes, and maybe a few other things. You should be able to file your taxes on a post card. my return last year was 90 pages. for a family with a job and a few small investments. 90 PAGES.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't want to punish anyone. But why people think it is ok to discriminate against those that work hard to achieve vs. those that make poor decisions, I don't get it.

Yeh, we can all be rich at the same time, right? People take what they can get in a system they have no control over. Well, other than with Unions & Govt which would be the evil soshulism, right?

 

[SlowSpyder]

You make a blind, naive assumption that anyone who is wealthy has, by default, worked hard to achieve that wealth. This is true in some cases, but in this country, it is the vast majority of the actual wealthy people that have truly worked to achieve anything. Not in the last several generations. Taxes need to be restored to their patriotic levels of upwards of 80% with serious estate taxes, because the unending march of the GOP desperately trying to entrench the oligarchy is the central poison of any kind of functioning democracy.

80% estate taxes? No. If I make good decisions and build wealth, I should be able to leave that to my son, at least what is left after a reasonable and fair tax.

 

[soundforbjt]

80% estate taxes? No. If I make good decisions and build wealth, I should be able to leave that to my son, at least what is left after a reasonable and fair tax.

Just do like Trump's dad did and pay zero taxes...?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Just do like Trump's dad did and pay zero taxes...?

I am sure there is a number between zero and 80% that we could agree on.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Just do like Trump's dad did and pay zero taxes...?

False dilemma. The only choices are not 0% and 80%.

Also, Trump's father engaged in massive tax fraud by undervaluing the properties transferred to Trump, and by forgiving no-interest loans without paying gift taxes. That was fraud, so that 0% does not even apply.

Anyone can pay 0% taxes if you're not caught or not prosecuted.

 

[SMOGZINN]

80% estate taxes? No. If I make good decisions and build wealth, I should be able to leave that to my son, at least what is left after a reasonable and fair tax.

I believe hereditary wealth is an antithesis to capitalism.

 

[nakedfrog]

Just do like Trump's dad did and pay zero taxes...?

Doesn't it only apply to the amount after the first few million anyway?

 

[soundforbjt]

Doesn't it only apply to the amount after the first few million anyway?

Iirc, five million?

 

[soundforbjt]

False dilemma. The only choices are not 0% and 80%.

Also, Trump's father engaged in massive tax fraud by undervaluing the properties transferred to Trump, and by forgiving no-interest loans without paying gift taxes. That was fraud, so that 0% does not even apply.

Anyone can pay 0% taxes if you're not caught or not prosecuted.

Let's dig him up and charge him, or make Donny pay taxes on it...oops. Funny how that works for rich guys huh?

 

[Paladin3]

It will be incredibly hard to create any tax system that will be "fair" since those with the means will pay to create rules which they will then hire tax lawyers to bend to their benefit. A tiered flat tax *might* come the closest if it takes into account all forms of income, but I'm no expert.

 

[nickqt]

You make a blind, naive assumption that anyone who is wealthy has, by default, worked hard to achieve that wealth. This is true in some cases, but in this country, it is the vast majority of the actual wealthy people that have truly worked to achieve anything. Not in the last several generations. Taxes need to be restored to their patriotic levels of upwards of 80% with serious estate taxes, because the unending march of the GOP desperately trying to entrench the oligarchy is the central poison of any kind of functioning democracy.

You’re arguing economics with someone who is a Mammon worshiper.

 

[zinfamous]

80% estate taxes? No. If I make good decisions and build wealth, I should be able to leave that to my son, at least what is left after a reasonable and fair tax.

Your son didn't earn shit. He is not entitled to shit. Giving him epic shitons of money with no effort just creates more chronic asshats in the world like Trump. Of course all your lazy-ass useless son would do with that money is lose it in obvious ponzi schemes and shitty business ideas, then pivot to an international money-laundering scheme.

No one needs to suffer under that kind of inbred nonsense. We're already dealing with it.

Leaving him 20% of 1 billion is far, far, far more than any human on the planet ever need to have a preposterously comfortable life. And no--you don't get to tell me that you have a "different idea of comfort" that is somehow beyond an already observably titanic amount of wealth that would still see your son being a useless, stupid bastard for the rest of his miserably wealthy life.

 

[brandonbull]

Did you just say Social Security is a government handout?

If you wish to term SS as a "handout", then it's a big handout. SS is not really a handout and is a massive part of the federal spending.

 

[brandonbull]

Pure denial & obfuscation. Govt jobs are decent jobs, quite by design. Compare that to beating the last penny out of the help as practiced by corporate greed & hedge fund ownership.

The government should not be in the position of being the primary employers of it's constituents. Vote for us or we will take away your money, food, and shelter. You don't see the problem with government having that level of control over people? WTF?