If Apple was a democracy

[Commodus]

This.

I halfway expect Apple to eventually do away with the screen. Why...that could shave off another half millimeter!

I *swear* there would be people claim they never used the phone's screen, so good riddance.

Thankfully, we aren't about to get an iPhone Shuffle any time soon.

I agree that the emphasis on thinness is getting a bit ridiculous, although it definitely matters in some areas, like smartwatches... thinner means the difference between elegantly wearing a watch under a shirt cuff and having to struggle every time you check your notifications.

 

[Phynaz]

In my entire life of owning many, many electronic devices, never have I had the headphone jack go bad. As far as my experience goes it's one of the most dependable parts of electronic devices.

My son has destroyed more than I can keep track of. Best Buy replacement warranty keeps covering replacing the devises.

 

[foghorn67]

For anyone defending Apple using the SQ argument.....why insist on ditching the 3.5mm port? Will having one disable the lightning port?

Geesh.

 

[desura]

Apple is getting way too elitist. The Apple Watch was bad enough...and ios7 just reeked of superiority and annoying trendiness.

Apple circa 2010 was *perfect*

 

[openwheel]

For anyone defending Apple using the SQ argument.....why insist on ditching the 3.5mm port? Will having one disable the lightning port?

Geesh.

Ouch!

 

[Zaap]

... iPhone Shuffle

LOL!

My son has destroyed more than I can keep track of. Best Buy replacement warranty keeps covering replacing the devises.

I just don't understand how some people treat their devices. Since the days of having a Walkman -and as a kid who wasn't particularly careful with things- I've never once destroyed a headphone jack on any device. What type of destructive force must one summon to ram a connector into one in order to take it out, and WHY would anyone subject their own (expensive!) devices to it?

 

[poofyhairguy]

Thought it was a good time to bump the thread now that leaks of iPhone parts sorta confirms that at least one of the iPhones will have the headphone port removed for a speaker grill.

Nilay tore Apple a new one on this issue:

Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

http://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea.../iphone-no-headphone-jack-user-hostile-stupid

I am impressed for sure. Here is the rebuttal:

https://daringfireball.net/2016/06/headphone_jacks_are_the_new_floppy_drives

 

[Crono]

Thought it was a good time to bump the thread now that leaks of iPhone parts sorta confirms that at least one of the iPhones will have the headphone port removed for a speaker grill.

Nilay tore Apple a new one on this issue:



http://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea.../iphone-no-headphone-jack-user-hostile-stupid

I am impressed for sure. Here is the rebuttal:

https://daringfireball.net/2016/06/headphone_jacks_are_the_new_floppy_drives

My rebuttal to the rebuttal is that Lightning is the new FireWire. If the world is going from 3.5mm to all-in-one connectors, I'm betting it's more likely that type C is going to be it, not Lightning. If you are going to need an adapter, that's just a stupid decision Apple is making. Maybe not financially since they have a good history of getting people to buy their stuff, anyway, but it's not a consumer-friendly choice.

 

[Zaap]

Nilay tore Apple a new one on this issue:



http://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea.../iphone-no-headphone-jack-user-hostile-stupid

I am impressed for sure. Here is the rebuttal:

https://daringfireball.net/2016/06/headphone_jacks_are_the_new_floppy_drives

First article I certainly agree with. Love how he points out another mm of thinness is 100% useless vs. lost function, something that's been a pet peeve of mine for a while now.

The rebuttal- ugh. I already hate the comparison to floppy drives. Though a lot of people bitched about it, in 1998 the floppy drive wasn't nearly as universal for computer users as headphone jacks are to... virtually *everyone* today. And using an external USB floppy made more sense with a desktop computer- it's not like you walked around with the things.

There's no analogy needed IMO- Apple did not remove the ability to get audio out of an iMac with a simple audio jack. And lo and behold- the 27" 5k monster i7 iMac I have here at work- still has a headphone jack.

To me, and I'm guessing to a lot of other people, headphones are not a one-device item. I have headphones I like, I want to pick them up and use them on *any* other device I'm around- from the Roku remote, to a tablet, multiple phones/computers/etc.

The idea that I'd just have headphones for my phone using a different connector (and hell no to a dongle ever) is just stupid and needless to me.

 

[Commodus]

I agree that thinness for its own sake is silly, but what about making room for a bigger battery, a larger camera or more sophisticated haptics? Thickness may be incidental in a case like that -- you might just not have the room. We won't know for sure until there's either a more substantial leak or Apple announces the hardware.

 

[KeithP]

I saw that on Reddit this morning in /r/iphone. Since I'm generally humor challenged, I found the cartoon to be annoying rather than amusing.

I don't think being humor challenged is why you found it annoying…you found it to be annoying because it is annoying.

Ars had a good article about replacing the headphone jack.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/0...you-need-to-replace-it-with-something-better/

You can replace the headphone jack, but you shouldn’t do it lightly. When people complain, it’s not just reflexive whining from change-averse graybeards. The jack’s age and ubiquity are features, not liabilities, and they’re features you’re going to need to think about when you try to replace it. I’m willing to be convinced. But it’s on Apple and the companies that have already begun ejecting headphone jacks from their products to present a strong argument, and so far they’re doing a bad job.

Whatever Apple's motivation for change is, I don't think a genuine consumer need is ever really behind it. Their profits and ecosystem are the main motivating factor and the marketing department does their best to convince consumers the changes are actually in their best interest.

As long as Apple can keep selling the stuff like they have been, that M.O. won't change any time soon.

-KeithP

 

[Commodus]

Whatever Apple's motivation for change is, I don't think a genuine consumer need is ever really behind it. Their profits and ecosystem are the main motivating factor and the marketing department does their best to convince consumers the changes are actually in their best interest.

As long as Apple can keep selling the stuff like they have been, that M.O. won't change any time soon.

-KeithP

I disagree... partly.

There's certainly a cynical economic side to it, but Apple changes usually involve something positive. USB wouldn't be where it is now if Apple hadn't dropped floppy drives and legacy ports on the original iMac. The iPod nano had less capacity than the iPod mini at first, but it was so much better overall that it didn't matter in the long run. Laptops wouldn't be as thin and light as they are now if Apple hadn't ditched optical drives on the MacBook Air (Intel's Ultrabook guidelines really do amount to "follow Apple"). Lightning gave iOS devices reversible cabling years before USB-C brought it to Android. The headphone jack thing might be different simply because it's more ubiquitous, but I suspect that Bluetooth headphones are about to become a lot more popular.

Besides, it's always odd when people decry Apple's decisions as profit grabs. Well... that's what a company is supposed to do, isn't it? It's not as if Samsung, LG or other rivals operate out of the kindness of their hearts (see: eagerly abandoning OS support on their devices). You can certainly complain that Apple is being inconsiderate or premature, but it shouldn't be shocking that a profit-driven company wants to make money.

 

[Midwayman]

Have to agree with the verge. I can think of a half dozen anti-consumer reasons to ditch the headphone port and the only positive is that might make the phone imperceptively thinner. I don't even want a thinner phone. The 6s is already passing too thing to handle well without a case. If there was an extra thick model with bigger battery I'd take that every day.

 

[mrochester]

I don't think being humor challenged is why you found it annoying…you found it to be annoying because it is annoying.

Ars had a good article about replacing the headphone jack.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/0...you-need-to-replace-it-with-something-better/



Whatever Apple's motivation for change is, I don't think a genuine consumer need is ever really behind it. Their profits and ecosystem are the main motivating factor and the marketing department does their best to convince consumers the changes are actually in their best interest.

As long as Apple can keep selling the stuff like they have been, that M.O. won't change any time soon.

-KeithP

Of all the companies who make smartphones, I would say Apple are at the top when it comes to making decisions that benefit consumers. I just don't see it in other manufactures who only seem to be interested in making a quick buck. Look at all the companies who put together exactly the same hardware spec, stick Android on it and call it a day. Absolutely not in the consumers interests at all, only in their own to desperately trying and make some money.

 

[magomago]

There must have been a hell of an argument in Apple on this decision. I think part of it comes down to less pieces/parts to make the cost cheaper (matters when you push tens of millions of devices a year), and probably to try to set the standard for the future so its on their terms - if people adopt the new means/ways of technology, then at least it was done on their accord and they have more control over it.

That said, if there is not already a market for 3.5mm to BT connectors, it will probably explode, with a focus on small as possible lol. I sometimes do prefer a cord to my BT headset, because sometimes its just easier on a long bike ride when I forget to charge the headset. It actually works in cold weather too, whereas the headset battery depletes fast on the mountain since I can't tuck it in my jacket like my phone..

 

[sm625]

and probably to try to set the standard for the future so its on their terms - if people adopt the new means/ways of technology, then at least it was done on their accord and they have more control over it.

If apple was even remotely interested in setting future standards without pissing people off then they would simply include both types of audio options on at least one generation of iphone, to allow the marketplace to fill with adequate supply of the new type before killing of the old one.

There are some people who have been using the same headphones for years. But these people probably dont buy iphones. And conversely, anyone dumb enough to buy an iphone is surely dumb enough to replace all their perfectly fine functioning peripherals with higher margin apple ones for twice the money.

 

[mrochester]

If apple was even remotely interested in setting future standards without pissing people off then they would simply include both types of audio options on at least one generation of iphone, to allow the marketplace to fill with adequate supply of the new type before killing of the old one.

There are some people who have been using the same headphones for years. But these people probably dont buy iphones. And conversely, anyone dumb enough to buy an iphone is surely dumb enough to replace all their perfectly fine functioning peripherals with higher margin apple ones for twice the money.

If you give people the option of continuing to use their old stuff then they won't start using the new stuff. You have to force people to change and move on.

 

[poofyhairguy]

There's certainly a cynical economic side to it, but Apple changes usually involve something positive.

Exactly. The problem is with this move even the largest Apple fanboys can't really find a massive positive reason to do it, which means that it's one of the most anti-consumer moves Apple has done if it happens. The biggest hangup for me is the fact that lightning headphones won't work with any current Macbook and normally Apple rewards those within their ecosystem. Add in the recent acquisition of Beats and it looks bad.

Besides, it's always odd when people decry Apple's decisions as profit grabs. Well... that's what a company is supposed to do, isn't it?

Not always, there are many examples of when companies with a lot of monopoly leverage (which I think iOS ecosystem lock-in is) do something blatantly anti-consumer for increased profits that hurts that company's long term profits either when the brand is damaged or when regulators (who are theoretically beholden to consumers) get involved looking for some positive press.

On this issue I completely agree with BGR in what's at stake:

It would be one thing if Apple with the iPhone 7 could encourage users to focus on a crazy new display technology or an incredible new feature like TouchID — but with no wild new features on the radar, omitting the headphone jack on the iPhone 7 would come to define the device itself.

http://bgr.com/2016/06/28/iphone-7-headphone-jack-removal-apple

Regular consumers get what a headphone jack is so this will be a top of CNN.com level of controversy when the phone launches.

I am half expecting that Apple is doing this JUST to ensure the iPhone 7 (which wasn't going to be a hit no matter what) takes all the heat so that way the iPhone 8 (that needs that port gone for the sake of form factor) is all positive.

 

[poofyhairguy]

If you give people the option of continuing to use their old stuff then they won't start using the new stuff. You have to force people to change and move on.

That argument works for say dropping serial ports to force people to USB, as USB is a universal standard. The issue is that the Lightning port is NOT a universal standard, only comes on iDevices, and accessories that use that standard must buy a license from Apple (so every headphone ever made for the iPhone 7 onward will have a literal Apple Tax built in the cost).

If Apple was willing to shift to USB 3.1 (like the Macbook has) in the same move then maybe it can be justified as forcing the world to a better place. But if they dump the headphone jack (the ULTIMATE universal standard for audio) and leave the Lightning port as the only solution it looks like nothing but a way to justify the Beats acquisition.

Especially if Europe really holds to its ruling that the iPhone has to have a universal port by the end of 2017, those buying new lightening headphones will be screwed when Apple does that forced over switch.

 

[Artdeco]

Nilay seems particularly upset over the headphone jack

 

[RampantAndroid]

apple has never cared about SQ

the S/N ratio on their stuff has always been horrid

Huh?

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2014/10/measurements-apple-iphone-4-iphone-6.html

Their setup is among the best for cell phones. They're using Cirrus Logic (who now owns Wolfson) for their analog output chain, and it works pretty well, really. Only phone last year that was remarkably better was the LG V10 - phones like the Nexus 6 were *awful* by comparison.

As for BT, anyone saying it's fine doesn't care about quality. A2DP is not lossless, it's compressed lossy audio (and has a bandwidth with a best case maximum of 721 kbits/s iirc) - so you take a lossy mp3/m4a/aac file, decode it, re-encode it using another lossy codec to send it over the wire and decode it again...and then you hope your BT device has a good DAC & Amp built in...

 

[poofyhairguy]

Nilay seems particularly upset over the headphone jack

First he didn't praise the Apple Watch and now he goes off about a headphone jack. His WWDC 2017 invite is toast.

 

[Artdeco]

First he didn't praise the Apple Watch and now he goes off about a headphone jack. His WWDC 2017 invite is toast.

Nah, Apple is a different animal now, The Verge just got taken off their sh1t list, don't think they're keeping much of one anymore.

I can't find the article, but Nilay is part of the reason the Apple Watch exists, he wrote an article about 2 years before the reveal, saying Apple, of all companies should be able to pull off a watch, looks like WatchOS 3.0 and the next Apple Watch will actually be close to what he wanted.

I don't have a problem with losing the headphone jack, I hate wires, and went to 100% Bluetooth about a year ago.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Nah, Apple is a different animal now, The Verge just got taken off their sh1t list, don't think they're keeping much of one anymore.

I can't find the article, but Nilay is part of the reason the Apple Watch exists, he wrote an article about 2 years before the reveal, saying Apple, of all companies should be able to pull off a watch, looks like WatchOS 3.0 and the next Apple Watch will actually be close to what he wanted.

I don't have a problem with losing the headphone jack, I hate wires, and went to 100% Bluetooth about a year ago.

From that picture, it's pretty awful: want to charge while using your phone? Got a battery pack to even do it while on the go? Well, too bad...unless you spend > $100 for one of the charge cases, anyway. It's a nightmare, and it shouldn't be done.

 

[Artdeco]

From that picture, it's pretty awful: want to charge while using your phone? Got a battery pack to even do it while on the go? Well, too bad...unless you spend > $100 for one of the charge cases, anyway. It's a nightmare, and it shouldn't be done.

I would suggest you not buy one then.

I'm going to skip the next gen of iPhones, I think the 2017 model will be something I want, won't it be the 10th anniversary iPhone as well?