If everyone grew up with a particular religion, and believe it to be right...then how is one religion right or wrong?

[ihaveasuperiorwang]

just look at it this way the islam is the reliogon that the terrorists supportand if islam supports wiping the jews from the face of the earth then that is a bad relgion no relgion should support killing a race of people

 

[Wuffsunie]

*Warms paws against the gently roaring flames*

Well, at least it's pretty much civil. So far.

As for my background, I was raised catholic (mother more religious than father, who was pretty much agnostic at best), and even educated so. Ontario is one of the few places to still have a catholic school board (I believe), so I learned religion from grade school through highschool.

My current views are agnostic. Between my background in the sciences and by virtue of the teleological argument, I believe that there is a god, an ultimate creator. The universe is just too complex and well ordered for our current understanding of it to fully explain it without an organizing intelligence.

But that god exists is different from my belief that he should be worshiped. Life, humanity, and the world today do not inspire me in the slightest to be in the slightest thankful for being thrust into this mess. It was Gene Roddenberry who once said "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing, all-powerful God, who creates faulty humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes.". Considering God invented sin and built hell, that's a wonderful protection racket he's running upstairs.

Such is why I've really given up religion. They are not guides to living your life, they're ritual manuals; at least for the most part.

As for choosing which is 'right' and which is 'wrong', we have no way of knowing! There are a few dozen religions (probably more, though only something like 5 or 6 major ones) in the world today, each of those having several different variations. You'd get better odds picking a winner at the gaming tables in vegas. It's a total crap shoot, so I say pick whatever suits your current beliefs/attitudes the best, or makes you feel like you belong, or whatever criteria you want for joining, and go for it. If you're wrong, there're only 4 possibilities:
1) you picked that one winner and are rewarded with eternal happiness/bliss/virgins/whatever your particular belief says you'll get
2) the more likely of the four (assuming the last is not correct), and you have to suffer the torment whoever was right said is in store for you
3) Get kicked right back into the whole mess to start again.
4) god does not exist, this life is all we get, and you're no longer around to worry about it.

And always remember, kiddies: You never get anywhere by arguing religion with a priest.

 

[lebe0024]

hehe... pretty big for your second post. Welcome. The conversations kind of moved away from "does god exist?" to "can you believe something that you don't want to believe?"

 

[her209]

<< "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing, all-powerful God, who creates faulty humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." >>



And here I thought I was all smug for coming up with that one.

 

[Wuffsunie]

<<

<< "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing, all-powerful God, who creates faulty humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." >>



And here I thought I was all smug for coming up with that one. >>



Heehee. I got that off the pageThe War on Faith
An interesting, if rather profane read

 

[Alex]

this was a big part of my TOK essay for the IB...

 

[bandXtrb]

<< Whatever you currently believe, you believe it because you want to believe it. >>

I don't think so. I don't think someone can belive in something no matter how much he or she wants to believe it. Certain conditions required for belief have to be met before this can happen. These conditions vary from person to person.

 

[rubix]

wow this one is still going? religious threads are the best.

didn't you know god is real because how can life exist and come from nothing? if there was a big bang then what created the big bang? it couldn't just be there forever. so the answer must be that since the big bang matter couldn't have been there forever then a magical god was there forever and he is 100 million more times complex than the original big bang matter because he is all knowing and powerful and full of love (mind you love didn't even exist then because there was no life yet... but he sure full of it). and it's not just any god that was there for eternity, it was MY god from MY religion in MY time period where MY religion exists in MY country/specific region... hey wait, what would i believe if i was born in egpyt or greece a few thousands years ago? hmm.

 

[MikeD]

Mine's right...your's is wrong....its what you feel in your heart to be true.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

But what we want to believe is still a direct result of conditioning. We don't pop out of a vaccum as completely unique individuals with free will. There are many levels to human conciousness, "choices" are based on what we've experienced.

9/10 of children born to Islamic families will choose Islam, 9/10 of children born to Christian families will choose Christianity. Both groups are essentially saying that the other is inferior, because they supposedly made the wrong choice. Does Jesus just like white people better?

I love all the great stories and proverbs from religous scriptures, but they just lose me with the egotism, the bloated sense of the human individual, and the ethnic/cultural partisanship.

 

[lebe0024]

<< But what we want to believe is still a direct result of conditioning. We don't pop out of a vaccum as completely unique individuals with free will. There are many levels to human conciousness, "choices" are based on what we've experienced. >>


I aggree with you 100%. My only point is that we can't believe something we don't want to believe.



<< Does Jesus just like white people better? >>


That's funny. Judiasm stays mainly with the Jews (the people group); Islam stays mainly in the middle-east; Buddism, Hinduism, all the same story. But, since Christ, Christianity spreads all over, among all people groups. And, throughout its history, it usually flourishes where power doesn't. It flourished among the puritans of the 17th and 18th century, but now most american christians are "cultural" christians. Now, it flourishes in Africa. As soon as an area becomes developed and powerful, the Gospel moves.

 

[joohang]

<< this was a big part of my TOK essay for the IB... >>


Nice. How did you do on it?

 

[her209]

<< That's funny. Judiasm stays mainly with the Jews (the people group); Islam stays mainly in the middle-east; Buddism, Hinduism, all the same story. But, since Christ, Christianity spreads all over, among all people groups. And, throughout its history, it usually flourishes where power doesn't. It flourished among the puritans of the 17th and 18th century, but now most american christians are "cultural" christians. Now, it flourishes in Africa. As soon as an area becomes developed and powerful, the Gospel moves. >>



Ever heard of missionaries?

 

[Orsorum]

<< Actually Nephro, the point is that something must be eternal. And, judging from the universe, that something is a designer. (as the fiddle faddle goes.) >>



If the universe is like a set of dominos, who pushed over the first one?

 

[joohang]

<<

<< Actually Nephro, the point is that something must be eternal. And, judging from the universe, that something is a designer. (as the fiddle faddle goes.) >>



If the universe is like a set of dominos, who pushed over the first one? >>


Pandora.

 

[Orsorum]

<<

<<

<< Actually Nephro, the point is that something must be eternal. And, judging from the universe, that something is a designer. (as the fiddle faddle goes.) >>



If the universe is like a set of dominos, who pushed over the first one? >>


Pandora. >>



Referring to some sick, sick fascination with doing things one shouldn't, or is this a Pandora I'm not aware of?

 

[joohang]

<<

<<

<<

<< Actually Nephro, the point is that something must be eternal. And, judging from the universe, that something is a designer. (as the fiddle faddle goes.) >>



If the universe is like a set of dominos, who pushed over the first one? >>


Pandora. >>



Referring to some sick, sick fascination with doing things one shouldn't, or is this a Pandora I'm not aware of? >>


What is so sick about Pandora?

 

[Peetoeng]

<<

<<

<<

<<

<< Actually Nephro, the point is that something must be eternal. And, judging from the universe, that something is a designer. (as the fiddle faddle goes.) >>



If the universe is like a set of dominos, who pushed over the first one? >>


Pandora. >>



Referring to some sick, sick fascination with doing things one shouldn't, or is this a Pandora I'm not aware of? >>


What is so sick about Pandora? >>



Her box, her infested box. Hmm, my reply can be miscontrued... oh well

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Islam has spread throughout Asia and Africa. I think the reason Christianity has spread so far is because of European expeditionaries and world-wide colonization.

 

[lebe0024]

<< I think the reason Christianity has spread so far is because of European expeditionaries and world-wide colonization. >>


Ok, maybe in the case of the US. But, Christianity doesn't flourish here, at least not among the common middle class white folk. (I know some of you will think differently, but I think most middle-class american christians know little of the gospel). Africa hasn't seen Revival until recently. And I wouldn't consider Europe to be a "Christian" continent anyway. Maybe a few hundred years ago (like when the US was being colonized by the puritans).



^^^ I talk like I know a lot about history and athropology, but I don't. So, if I'm wrong about certain details, feel free to trash on me.

 

[sandorski]

Required reading: The Decline of the West by Oswald Spengler

Spengler examines the relationship of religion, culture, science/mathematics, and civilization amongst other things. One thing that he makes clear, there is little "free thought" in any civilization. A civilization's religious thought can have dramatic influence on what mathematics are developed by a civilization for example.

The problem with "free will" and "choosing" or "wanting" to believe in one thing over another is that no society is without bias. In a Muslim society(note the use of the word "society", societies can exist as a subset of a civilization, Christian societies, Muslim societies, Humanist societies, and many others can and do exist in a particular civilization), Islam is good, all others are lesser to downright evil. In a Christian society, Christianity is good, all others are lesser or evil. Most of the time people will choose what is "good" and they will do it by using the information that they have, most of the time it will be biased information.

From a completely unbiased position, I don't think one could decide which religion was "right". The best answer would be which appeals most, or which seems to be the most logical.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

The best answer would be which appeals most, or which seems to be the most logical

Isn't what appeals or what is logical to someone also defined by their society?

 

[sandorski]

engine: Yes.

 

[lebe0024]

Totally. In a given society, people are more likely to choose the world-view that surrounds them most. I absolutely agree 100%. But, like I said before, no one believes in something they don't want to believe in.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

So the question then is, what is what we want and why do we want it? Where does free will play into wanting to believe something if we are limited in our choices and naturally inclined to choose some over others.