If film is better than DLP, then why is film so bad in theaters?

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abaez

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
7,158
1
81
^^ what they said. When I was a head projectionist I made damn sure everything I could do was as best it could be. Bulbs aligned correctly and replaced within spec, technician called for any issues, sound perfect, film built up with absolutely no dirt and flawless splices and cleaned regularly, etc etc. It makes a HUGE difference.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
In the theater I worked at, film was typically poor because: Cheap $100 lenses, cheap Chinese bulbs, poor, never cleaned parabolics, a policy of "fix it when it breaks, screw regular maintenance."

Basically DLP is new so the they are in better shape. I have already been to theaters where the green was no longer aligned with the red and blue. (Mirror was out of alignment somehow...)

Basically film will look better if you have identical conditions and the projectionist gives a crap about the presentation. 35MM still has a wider color range and higher "resolution" than even 4K DLP. The problem tends to be finding someone who cares, uses things like nice Osram bulbs [better color range, and brighter per watt], cleans the gear, aims the optics properly, uses quality lenses, keeps the traps maintained etc.

I used to take pride in my work. However you could tell when they built the building the theater company didn't care because the projection windows were not even aligned with the screens making it impossible to align the optics and square the image without distortion or very expensive trapezoidal correction lenses.

Mean while DLP allows you to cheat and adjust the alignments using the mirror arrays at the cost of some DPI / distortion.

This is what I was looking for. This is the correct answer.

Digital WILL take over not because it always looks better but because it looks better more often then film.

8k is for theaters and when the transition happens there will be no projectionists.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
^^ what they said. When I was a head projectionist I made damn sure everything I could do was as best it could be. Bulbs aligned correctly and replaced within spec, technician called for any issues, sound perfect, film built up with absolutely no dirt and flawless splices and cleaned regularly, etc etc. It makes a HUGE difference.

were you union?
 

abaez

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
7,158
1
81
No. I started as an usher cleaning up trash after shows and worked my way up.
 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
500
126
1. Dust, dirt, etc in the theater.

2. Condition of film copy sent to theater. (Gets worse after being used)

3. Poor lenses and Poor bulb quality.

4. Unskilled projectionist

35mm print has 8 to 12 million pixels of resolution from what I've read.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
This is what I was looking for. This is the correct answer.

Digital WILL take over not because it always looks better but because it looks better more often then film.

8k is for theaters and when the transition happens there will be no projectionists.

Actually, I think the main reason digital will take over is because of the expense of film--shipping those preposterously heavy film canisters from theater to theater is insanely expensive. Then you have the cost of preserving said film, and the equipment to display it.

Film can always look better, for some time to come, still--but digital has become "good enough" that the convenience and cost now outweighs the need for film.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
0
0
Actually, I think the main reason digital will take over is because of the expense of film--shipping those preposterously heavy film canisters from theater to theater is insanely expensive. Then you have the cost of preserving said film, and the equipment to display it.

Film can always look better, for some time to come, still--but digital has become "good enough" that the convenience and cost now outweighs the need for film.

Printing far out weighs shipping. They are shipped basic freight. An entire film was about $15 to ship since they have a bulk agreement (distribution). The digital projectors are about 4x the cost with about 1/3 (or less) of an expected life. Basically DLP projectors are expected to have a 5-10 year life with more costly parts that can break. An entire 35MM projector (theater grade) is ~50K with a 30-40 year expected life. DLP is just under $200k.

DLP systems also use more power because there is a lot more digital equipment to run. All in All digital is all "lose" for the theater and a "Win" for the distribution chain. The only way it is working at the moment is because of an agreement where the theaters get a kick back from distribution for showing digital content.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Printing far out weighs shipping. They are shipped basic freight. An entire film was about $15 to ship since they have a bulk agreement (distribution). The digital projectors are about 4x the cost with about 1/3 (or less) of an expected life. Basically DLP projectors are expected to have a 5-10 year life with more costly parts that can break. An entire 35MM projector (theater grade) is ~50K with a 30-40 year expected life. DLP is just under $200k.

DLP systems also use more power because there is a lot more digital equipment to run. All in All digital is all "lose" for the theater and a "Win" for the distribution chain. The only way it is working at the moment is because of an agreement where the theaters get a kick back from distribution for showing digital content.

well, shit. thanks for fixing my colossal error.

 

bobdole369

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2004
4,504
2
0
1. Dust, dirt, etc in the theater.

2. Condition of film copy sent to theater. (Gets worse after being used)

3. Poor lenses and Poor bulb quality.

4. Unskilled projectionist

35mm print has 8 to 12 million pixels of resolution from what I've read.

Drum scanners can pick up somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 megapixels of "usable" information out of a 35mm frame. Its up to the photographer to get that detail in the frame though, and thats at the top end. Far more important is the difference in how lights and darks are recorded - film uses a logarithmic scale with the chemicals, and digital stuff is linear.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-6033.html
 
Jun 18, 2000
11,140
722
126
Digital or film, the typical theater has way too much ambient light anyway thanks to fire code. Crappy contrast and washed colors? I'll just watch it at home on my own projector.
 
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