If god really never existed...

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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,130
5,658
126
Originally posted by: rudeguy
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: rudeguy
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: rudeguy
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Logic: The Anti-bible.


Corinthians 1:19:
For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the learning of the learned I will set aside. Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish? For since in the wisdom of God the world did not come to know God through wisdom, it was the will of God through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those who have faith.

They must have got you really young. I'm sorry

Actually no. I was agnostic for many, many years. Up until a couple months ago, I had never really read the Bible.

I came to a crossroads in a my life where I came to realize that my life was useless the way I was living it. I was on a path of destruction...destroying myself and many other's lives as well. I found a new way of living and believing that makes sense to me. I don't fully understand religion (I consider myself more spiritual) but do believe that the Bible is God's instruction manual for life.

I would never try to force my beliefs on anyone, but I will happily defend and explain them to anyone who wants to listen.

Fair enough. I just wish there were other crutches that people in dispair could turn to. Fairy tales about Jewish zombie carpenters, talking snakes, and a "young earth" are not productive.

There are many millions of people who would disagree with your statement. One of the best quotes I have ever heard regarding God is simple and to the point:

"Who am I to say there is no God?"

Who are you(or they even) to say there is? Who are you to say which "God" is the correct "God"?

Religion is all about the Cop Out. This makes it both Useful/Constructive and Useless/Destructive. For those who have gone astray and need a significant Change, Religion can be a great catalyst for improvement. OTOH, that very same ability to cause significant Change can also lead people astray again, except this time their straying carries with it unshakeable Conviction, steadfastness of action, and complete denial of ones' own Guilt. Most won't go through with the plan, but the few who do bring about tragic consequences.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: jonks
What was L. Ron Hubbard's burning bush?

Answer: Religion

Scientology has GOT to be the greatest parody ever, it definitely beats the Flying Spaghetti Monster in terms of seemingly intended ridiculousness. But in some of the ideas, at least if I had been behind the creation of Scientology, it appears to have a goal of getting people to look at religion in a different light, and say "how is this any less ridiculous than that?". With the scientologists also pushing no medication for mental disorders, I'd say they want humanity to return to humanity, and not be dependent on unnatural stuff. Hard to argue that is right, or wrong, because society is definitely different, and will continue to be as time goes on and people start to not care, with the notion that medication will fix them in the future. That's already happening as it is, and might be another social downfall.
 

LS8

Golden Member
Jul 24, 2008
1,285
0
0
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
A. Nice troll post

B. I would like to learn more about this "big bank" theory.

Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Perhaps they understand physics enough to fully believe in the Big Bank theory

You sound like the troll to me.
 

fishjie

Senior member
Apr 22, 2006
234
0
76
www.youtube.com
Originally posted by: rudeguyThere are many millions of people who would disagree with your statement. One of the best quotes I have ever heard regarding God is simple and to the point:

"Who am I to say there is no God?"

there are millions of people who believe in lord xenu. who am i to question his existence? oh that's right, someone with common sense
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
There are several threads to this.

1) We don't actually have many surviving writings from thousands of years ago (surprisingly), and also there weren't necessarily a huge amount of people writing anyway (not many people + low literacy rate). So there would be a limited quantity of material doing what you describe, and a limited amount of it would have survived, meaning that just because we don't have much now doesn't mean it didn't exist.

2) Every other god was the spaghetti monster. But you have to consider that the way religion was perceived back then (outside of Christianity/Judaism) was very different to our view which has been shaped by Christianity for 1000~1500 years.

3) People did write about how some elements of Christianity were bunk, especially classical authors, who describe stories of men using various tricks which were claimed to be magical or similar to miracles in the bible. Now these aren't all specifically targetted at Christianity/the Bible but at similar stories as well.

4) People who were non-Christians were more accepting of the beliefs of others (well, 'pagans' were), as they had an ever changing view of religion and gods and their involvement in the world around them. They wouldn't necessarily criticise the Bible (as it was then, which it wasn't really), and would be more likely to think that perhaps the god of these Christians did exist, but was one of many, and not a single god, so they wouldn't say "oh no he doesn't exist", but would (and some did) view him as a god rather than the god, and hence wouldn't attack the writings surrounding him.

5) People did attack monotheism, especially the Jews, and their beliefs, teachings and writings. There is quite a lot which talks about the strange ideas and practices of the Jews and their teachings (which are included in the Bible, obviously), and the Jews themselves were obviously looked down upon by many for their different and strange (to others) beliefs.

6) The early Christians weren't exactly nice people and pretty much set out to eliminate as much of paganism and non-Christian belief as they could, and were fairly successful, so what there may have been which contained a dissenting opinion about Christianity/the bible is also unlikely to have survived due to this as well (ignoring things like the ravages of time, lack of printing press etc), as the Christian leaders wouldn't want people going around spouting off about how the Bible is bunk, and they controlled most of Europe so they could do a pretty good job of basically eradicating all negative viewpoints and all resistance (including groups of Christianity with different views to the mainstream -> look at Christian Schisms through the ages).

I probably didn't explain myself clearly, nor have I covered everything, because there is so much inherently wrong with the foundation of your original question that it would take too long to go through how the world was before Christianity to point out how your question is completely wrong and there was no need to have an anti-bible/anti-christianity thing, because it did kind of exist, and religion then was very different to religion now. (Not an attack on the OP, because not everyone studies this sort of stuff, and so wouldn't necessarily know all the different elements at play).
But that mostly deals with early Christianity, up to maybe 400AD.


Oh, and there was no Bible to attack for a while really, and most people couldn't read, so in the time between Christianity coming to dominance, which kind of coincided with the dark ages, the Bible being formed as it is now, and people being able to read and write and have free time, there were gaps, so by the time there was a fully formed Bible to attack, Christianity had been dominant for centuries, and there wasn't a high literacy rate, and people didn't think to question. (Up to the renaissance etc where people did start to think of new ideas, leading into the 18th centuries and onwards where scientific breakthroughs called even more of the Bible into question)
 

MrWizzard

Platinum Member
Mar 24, 2002
2,493
0
71
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: MrWizzard
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
A. Nice troll post

B. I would like to learn more about this "big bank" theory.

Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Perhaps they understand physics enough to fully believe in the Big Bank theory

ummmmmmm no you are the troll.

And Ol'Betsy is ugly! so there.

You sir, have crossed the line. I challenge you to a dual.

I have to warn you I am a level ~ geek.

MrWizzard quickly hides his own Antec 900...
 

Verbrennenkinder

Junior Member
Feb 25, 2008
18
0
0
written by Brihaspati ca. 600 B.C.

"No heaven exists, no final liberation,
No soul, no other world, no rites of caste?
The triple veda, triple self command,
And all the dust and ashes of repentence -
These yield a means of livelihood for men
Devoid of intellect and manliness...
How can this body when reduced to dust
Revisit earth? And if a ghost can pass
To other worlds, why does not strong affection
For those he leaves behind attract him back?
The costly rites enjoined for those who die
Are but a means of livelihood devised
By sacerdotal cunning - nothing more...
While life endures, let life be spent in ease
And merriment; Let a man borrow money
From all his friends, and feast on melted butter." - earliest atheist writing I could find

Socrates, 469 BC - 399 BC, put to death because of atheistic views
Diagoras, ca. 443 BC - 410(?) BC, put to death because of atheistic views
Epicurus, 342 BC - 270 BC, athiest, died of natural causes

Atheism has been around for much longer than the Bible
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On top of just thinking logically I do research into the subject also:

Jesus(ca. 4 BC)
Born Dec 25
Virgin Birth
death by crucifixtion
Dead for 3 days and ressurected, and took his place as a deity
As infant: Herod tries to kill him
3 wise men follow star in the east to birth
Birth witnesses: Shepards
Child teacher at 12
baptized at 30
baptist was beheaded
12 disciples
walked on water, healed sick, cast out demons, restored sight to blind
Title: Christ, the anointed one

Horus (ca. 3000 BC)
Born Dec 25
Virgin Birth
death by crucifixtion
Dead for 3 days and ressurected and took his place as a deity
As infant: Herut tries to kill him
3 kings follow star in the east to birth
Birth witnesses: Shepards
Child teacher at 12
baptized at 30
baptist was beheaded
12 disciples
walked on water, healed sick, cast out demons, restored sight to blind
Title: Krist, the anointed one

also, Satan is almost an exact copy of Set (Horus's opposite)
for more deities that all have the same traits see Mythra of India or Dionysus of Greece
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I've got alot more to say but I have class now. I may post the rest later, explaining how almost every religion current or forgotten traces back to the same thing: the cross of the zodiac and its origins.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: jonks
What was L. Ron Hubbard's burning bush?

Answer: Religion

Scientology has GOT to be the greatest parody ever, it definitely beats the Flying Spaghetti Monster in terms of seemingly intended ridiculousness. But in some of the ideas, at least if I had been behind the creation of Scientology, it appears to have a goal of getting people to look at religion in a different light, and say "how is this any less ridiculous than that?". With the scientologists also pushing no medication for mental disorders, I'd say they want humanity to return to humanity, and not be dependent on unnatural stuff. Hard to argue that is right, or wrong, because society is definitely different, and will continue to be as time goes on and people start to not care, with the notion that medication will fix them in the future. That's already happening as it is, and might be another social downfall.

My question is, who told LRH the tenets of scientology, as he relays them to the faithful? God spoke to Moses first through the bush, then "in person" on the mountaintop. Jesus was God's son and the new testament is his story. What's the connection between LRH and Xenu? How did he explain coming across knowledge of this intergalactic history? Are there million-year old tomes he found while hiking in a volcano? Did it come to him psychically by overpowering a thetan and forcing it to reveal what it was and where it came from? Scientology is slightly less plausible than LRH's sci-fi novels so I'm wondering what the basis for believing anything he said was.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: jonks
What was L. Ron Hubbard's burning bush?

Answer: Religion

Scientology has GOT to be the greatest parody ever, it definitely beats the Flying Spaghetti Monster in terms of seemingly intended ridiculousness. But in some of the ideas, at least if I had been behind the creation of Scientology, it appears to have a goal of getting people to look at religion in a different light, and say "how is this any less ridiculous than that?". With the scientologists also pushing no medication for mental disorders, I'd say they want humanity to return to humanity, and not be dependent on unnatural stuff. Hard to argue that is right, or wrong, because society is definitely different, and will continue to be as time goes on and people start to not care, with the notion that medication will fix them in the future. That's already happening as it is, and might be another social downfall.

My question is, who told LRH the tenets of scientology, as he relays them to the faithful? God spoke to Moses first through the bush, then "in person" on the mountaintop. Jesus was God's son and the new testament is his story. What's the connection between LRH and Xenu? How did he explain coming across knowledge of this intergalactic history? Are there million-year old tomes he found while hiking in a volcano? Did it come to him psychically by overpowering a thetan and forcing it to reveal what it was and where it came from? Scientology is slightly less plausible than LRH's sci-fi novels so I'm wondering what the basis for believing anything he said was.

did you miss the whole "It's a Parody" part? It is hard to believe you missed it, as it was the first sentence of my reply.

as in, it's all made up, just like religion, except he went above and beyond to make it more obvious. Maybe he is truly trying to make people believe in something new, but I seriously doubt that, as it just seems to ridiculous. I mean, a space plane that, as described, looks like a modern commercial airliner modified for space flight (forget the exact wordings, but he states a specific aircraft make and model!), yet was apparently eons ago. And its with that, and many other details, that my gut fully believes its not necessarily a prank, but a serious attempt to wake people up. That would fit right in-line with him being a science-fiction author, a genre in which many authors use extravagant stories to try and tell real world tales deemed important for society, either in the present or in the near future.

With the works we are reading in my Greek/Roman Classical Mythology course, I am looking for classic inspiration to incorporate similar story structure into a story/novel I have stopped and re-started numerous times. One day I will seriously get around to finishing it, and I think I've found the perfect story-telling style through that Mythology course that can help me write even with my ADD. I just cannot hold focus over a long enough period, that and devote time to it while in school.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
We are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
 

ArizonaSteve

Senior member
Dec 20, 2003
747
92
91
To answer the original post:

Since there was an asymmetry between antimatter and matter following the big bang, all of the anti-bibles were anihilated by bibles, with the excess of bibles remaining to be read.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
The anti-bibles reacted with regular bibles, which were used to fuel starships.
......
This is what I get for not reading the whole thread. A similar post wasn't merely embedded amongst many other posts, it was the last damn post in the thread.
I need to invent anti-fail now.



Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
I'll bite. If God truly existed, then why the great disparities in religions of the world? Was it only one God, as described in JudeoCristian and Muslim texts, or were there many Gods as outlined in Hinduism, or the Norse, Greek and Roman mythologies? Why is the Bible the definitive text on the existence of God when it was written by men just as any other holy texts were? Are we to believe that the men who wrote the Bible literally spoke to God, but any man who wrote a holy text before or after was delusional? Maybe those other holy texts are the anti-Bible you speak of...

And to be fair, Christians were persecuted for several centuries after Jesus; the Romans fed them to the lions in the arena. That's a pretty strong indictment of a religion from "Biblical times."
To answer all of your questions, "Yes," and "Because the Bible says so."

 

huberm

Golden Member
Dec 17, 2004
1,105
1
0
I did not read the whole post, but to the OP and his original question, there were those that didn't believe and much resistance towards the Christian religion during that time. One of the biggest was the Jewish religion. They denied that Jesus was the Messiah and eventually crucified Him.
 

videogames101

Diamond Member
Aug 24, 2005
6,777
19
81
Originally posted by: manlymatt83
... then how come there's no "anti-bible" from biblical times?

In other words, so many people in modern day times are quick to say "thanks for dumbing us down", or "oh god, here comes another bible story again". Perhaps these people consider themselves more educated or logical. Perhaps they understand physics enough to fully believe in the Big Bang theory and discount biblical claims. Perhaps they just don't want to believe in something they can't see. I don't know the reasons - but for all the people on these forums who consider themselves religious and/or god believing, there are also those who worship a spaghetti monster.

So my question is: where are these "spaghetti monster" worshipers of biblical times? Where are the books written from people in that age that say "The truth about the bible", and have some guy writing from his desk about how he overheard someone outside his hut talking about writing this fictional book called "The bible" and how it was going to make him millions. I don't know -- if the bible is a document that is supposed to accurately depict how life was during the age of Jesus, why aren't there any significant books that counter-act his existence from that time period?



Disclaimer: I have no idea how I feel about religion or god and I'm still making up my mind. So this argument is neutral and should not be taken as a pro-bible or anti-bible argument.

You do know that the spaghetti monster was made-up to mock religion?

The thing is, there are TONS of holy books, which all conflict with the bible, so, your arguement just went to shit.


also, scientology is a cult, not a religion, and should be destroyed by all avalible means.
 
S

SlitheryDee

I would think that one of the few things that could survive for the length of time that the bible has is a religious text. It simply outlived the people and the writings that spoke against it. I imagine there were a great number of writings that spoke out against the bible in christianity's early years, but how many thousands of years do you think such writings would last if they were never recopied over and over as the bible was?
 

SleepWalkerX

Platinum Member
Jun 29, 2004
2,649
0
0
Originally posted by: videogames101
also, scientology is a cult, not a religion, and should be destroyed by all avalible means.

The only difference between a cult and religion is the number of followers.

It amazes me how people are able to pick on Scientology as if any other faith is somehow more credible than the last one..
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,921
14
81
Originally posted by: rudeguy
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: rudeguy
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: rudeguy
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Logic: The Anti-bible.


Corinthians 1:19:
For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the learning of the learned I will set aside. Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish? For since in the wisdom of God the world did not come to know God through wisdom, it was the will of God through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those who have faith.

They must have got you really young. I'm sorry

Actually no. I was agnostic for many, many years. Up until a couple months ago, I had never really read the Bible.

I came to a crossroads in a my life where I came to realize that my life was useless the way I was living it. I was on a path of destruction...destroying myself and many other's lives as well. I found a new way of living and believing that makes sense to me. I don't fully understand religion (I consider myself more spiritual) but do believe that the Bible is God's instruction manual for life.

I would never try to force my beliefs on anyone, but I will happily defend and explain them to anyone who wants to listen.

Fair enough. I just wish there were other crutches that people in dispair could turn to. Fairy tales about Jewish zombie carpenters, talking snakes, and a "young earth" are not productive.

There are many millions of people who would disagree with your statement. One of the best quotes I have ever heard regarding God is simple and to the point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
"Who am I to say there is no God?"
Who better than you?
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Originally posted by: sourceninja
We are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

 

rhino56

Platinum Member
Oct 6, 2004
2,325
1
0
god only exists to those who believe he does, those who dont believe may never see him.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
I didn't read the whole thread yet, so forgive me if this has already been said.

God's existence is questioned more today than ever before because the general populace knows significantly more about the world than they did many years ago. In general, the more you know, the less believable the Bible or any other religious text is.
 
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